I must be imagining it?

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PaladinCyborg
Posts: 374

I must be imagining it?

Post#1 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:55 pm

Situation:
You are the Cyborg player. You have two transwarp Biocides with medium beams and about 140 fighters each. You go into combat with two C-player Rushes - during the turn that the C-player takes control of the Rebels.

Results (as viewed on PlayVCR):
For some inexplicable reason, your cubes now have about 70 fighters each and the battle results in two Biocides being killed, one Rush destroyed, and one Rush surviving unscathed. :cry:

I've been in combat with C-player carriers before, but haven't seen this.

Question:
Is this normal, or am I just lucky enough to see a rare event?
Duis digrissim ipsum in rana unicornis!

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Cherek
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Post#2 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 1:44 pm

You're special. :D

Was there any messsages? Was the lose of 50% of the fighters the only thing that happened?
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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PaladinCyborg
Posts: 374

Post#3 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:05 pm

I have rational explanations for the rest of my turn (i.e. - forgetting to set warp 0 on a chunnelling Fireclould, etc.) The fighter loss caught me completely off guard, and I thought it might be a C-player privilege.

I want someone else to be special.
Duis digrissim ipsum in rana unicornis!

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Cherek
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Post#4 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:21 pm

Most of the time, I play a torper race, so I haven't seen a lose of fighters, but I haven't seen it make torpedoes dissappear.
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The line above is false.

Cherek

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Mika
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Post#5 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:32 am

the only idea I have is that you just slammed the keyboard when changing the FC and accidently hitting "btf" or still having it set from a previous turn.
Oderint dum metuant.
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Six_Of_One
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Post#6 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 4:38 am

The amount of fighters is probably irrelevant, as, for whatever reason i dont know, Rushes seem to have the ability to fight well above their class, and win a battle with a Biocide 90% of the time.

Imho, this is one of the few flaws in vga, especially when you consider the cost of a bio v a rush, and the fact borg have to pay $ for fighters.

The other flaw is the Darkwing v the Nova. Again imho the nova should have been 10 and 8, the darkwing 10 and 10 and with a larger fuel capacity.

Look on the bright side, your result means you can tell yourself the losses were cheaper than you thought.
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#7 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 6:05 am

The answer to why the Rush wins inordinately:
For Carriers:
In THost's VCR, Leftside has a significant advantage due to an error.

It used to be that in THost that Leftside was determined by race#.
Higher race number used to get leftside.

Prior to the below changes, the CofM Virgo at 10/8 won a
significantly higher % than it does now.

To fix that problem, Tim added a few changes:
#1: pseudo random leftside that is dictated by hostility.
a: Kill!
b: Primary Enemy
c: fcode numeric value
d: If hostility is equal, then IIRC, it is random left/right.

#2: 60% chance of +360kt mass for rightside combatants vs carriers.
In CV vs CV, big ones, this has no effect.
In CV vs torper, small borderline torpers can have a huge effect.

There's more detailed info on this issue IIRC at Donovan's


I'm curious, Six, why do you think the DW should be 10/10 and the
Nova 10/8?

Nova costs 2x as much as the DW.

DW's 290 fuel tank is what holds that ship down, as a Bird, I'd love a big
tank, as a race fighting birds, I'd hate a long legged DW. :shock:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#8 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:43 am

BANE is correct with the huge advantage of the left side. the fight of two big carriers is almost entirely dominated by the side from which you fight. the rush vs bio goes 57% win for the rush fighting from the left and only 9% for the same rush fighting from the right side in battle. so two rushes can kill two bios with the second rush surviving nearly 60% of the battles and having an average of 69% damage. that is the best case average scenario. could be even more lucky!

i just killed two bios with three rushes in Hemispheres NvS. lost two obviously, and they only had crappy engines too ;)
they were fighting from the left as well. so it was even slightly lucky from the bios side of view.

i also just checked the outcome with 70 fighters - we should not talk about that. 70 fighters if far too few for big carrier battles. one rush alone has a 70+% chance to kill two such bios. 120 should be the lowest amount in use.

btw, i never knew the a.i. could steal fighters. sorry, but i can not help you with that. maybe the cyborg-collective "needed" the resources elsewhere and just recycled the fighters in order to make potted plants - who knows.
have fun!

hennef

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#9 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:51 am

The AI stealing fighters?
AFAIK, there is no way for a cplayer to do that.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#10 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:24 am

maybe the "btf"-accident that mika mentioned did really occur? i would not know how the Cplayer would be able to interfere with anything not his own. it is not even capable of attacking empty planets :P
have fun!

hennef

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warpedboard
Posts: 555

Post#11 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 11:57 am

B A N E wrote:The AI stealing fighters?
AFAIK, there is no way for a cplayer to do that.
Well, in theory, it certainly COULD, since the Q fiddles with the host files (SpaceLord couldn't though). The docs don't make any mention of such an ability though, so either it's an undocument feature (programmer-talk for "bug" :) ), or something else like the aforementioned "btf" possibility.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#12 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:01 pm

warpedboard wrote:
B A N E wrote:The AI stealing fighters?
AFAIK, there is no way for a cplayer to do that.
Well, in theory, it certainly COULD, since the Q fiddles with the host files (SpaceLord couldn't though). The docs don't make any mention of such an ability though, so either it's an undocument feature (programmer-talk for "bug" :) ), or something else like the aforementioned "btf" possibility.
There I go mis-speaking.
"No Cplayer I know of does that" would have been better.
I know Q (cplayer, acp, dominate, admiral) edit hostfiles.
My bad, thanks for the correction.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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warpedboard
Posts: 555

Post#13 » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:33 pm

B A N E wrote:There I go mis-speaking.
"No Cplayer I know of does that" would have been better.
I know Q (cplayer, acp, dominate, admiral) edit hostfiles.
My bad, thanks for the correction.
Figured you knew that, but thought I'd clarify for those who may not. Not, of course, that my musing goes any further towards shedding light on what DID happen -- I never said it was USEFUL thinking.

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