No queue stuffing

There is where you can ask Cherek anything that's on your mind.

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

User avatar
Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#16 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:59 pm

B A N E wrote:A link to a previous thread:
viewtopic.php?p=30921#30921
Thanks Bane :)

I looked for the thread myself, since I believe I explained the game mecanics there somewhere as well. I was not looking for the infamous Lizard fleet build up.

Another thing to mention was that it was a experimental game with some heavily build in problems which become obvius during the game.

Worst problem was Cyborg with no ships capable of fighting the first 20 turns. May they rest in peace.

Second problem was that Lizard for the first 20 turns could build no better ship than a SDSF with a cargo of somewhere between 300/600 with terraforming capability and beams for hissing. Something I became most unpopular for building in large numbers.
Regards,

Captain Blood

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#17 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:10 pm

I looked for others and I seem to recall other discussions
but they didn't come up obvious upon quick searching.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#18 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:33 am

Que Stuffing bad, mmm kay.

User avatar
AngryJohnny
Posts: 293

Post#19 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:50 pm

Thanks B A N E. That gave me more insight into what ][avok considers queue stuffing. It's not something I have to worry about in any of my games.

I have to agree, queue stuffing as described by ][avok is a cheap tactic and totally unnecessary.


-- Angry Johnny

"If you wish to make the gods laugh, tell them your plans"

Image

User avatar
Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#20 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:20 pm

The problem I think is that a lot of players are too concerned with the mechanics of the game rather than being concerned with actually playing the game. I mean that's the reason Stars! largely died. Because some group of number crunchers figured out how to min/max the game and ruined it for everyone else.

Like in the Daily SFB game. I have a lot of ships. But when I built those ships I wasn't thinking about PBPs. I wasn't thinking about denying ships to my enemy. I was just thinking about getting a bigger fleet before the limit was hit. Tried to build a useful ship every turn and if that wasn't possible I didn't build anything at all.

I honestly think that part of the problem is these VPAs and whatever which give you more information than you need. Like in Kaboom a SB took down one of Casebolt's ships so he said "oh yes, your fully stocked SB with 16 clans". And I'm like "16 clans? How the hell do you know that? and more importantly why do you care?".

To me I think "oh, he's got a SB there. Guess I need more ships to take it out". Or if I'm fighting a battle with a fleet, I always try to only fight battles that I know I can win. The specifics of what's going on is irrelevant. I'm not going to waste time trying to min-max every little thing. Only time I really look into specifics is when I'm mine-laying.

Anyway, getting off topic.

The point is, this game is about ships blowing eachother up, and planets being laidd to waste. It's not about some points you get for destroying a ship. If at the end of the battle, you're the one with ships standing then the points are probably in you favour anyway so who cares. Keep fighting.

I wish there was a no que stuffing rule on RCworld. In one game I played there, I was fighting the Colonies. The colonies were allied with the Feds and the Privateers so there were colonial lokis and MBR-towed Virgos. Then the Colonies dropped the game for some reason. No C-player was installed. So I go RGAing his worlds and find a SB. It has a fleet of SDSF around it. So does another base. I mean the guy's already got tons of Virgos, he's got MBRs towing Super Freighters and Virgos around all over the place. What the heck does he need to Que stuff for as well?? Total cheese monkey.

User avatar
Hawkeye
Posts: 1029

Post#21 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:18 pm

B A N E wrote:A link to a previous thread:
viewtopic.php?p=30921#30921
Okay, I've read through this forum, and the thread above, but can't find any official verdict from ][avok. I personally consider building a ship to recycle for PBP the next turn to be within the realms of fair play, but would like to get a definitive answer, so I know how to avoid breaking the rules.

][avok, is there somewhere we can find this official ruling? And if so, would it be an idea to post a link on the homepage to the in-game site rules?

Cheers, Hawkeye

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#22 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:00 pm

viewtopic.php?p=37636#37636

Hawkeye,
What you're describing is crawling the Q.
Host.exe doesn't tell the players where the next build will be
nor where their next build will be. That information can be
acquired but it requires manually tracking the build queue
along with PBP builds.

Phost solves that problem also.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#23 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:04 pm

B A N E wrote:viewtopic.php?p=37636#37636

Hawkeye,
What you're describing is crawling the Q.
Host.exe doesn't tell the players where the next build will be
nor where their next build will be. That information can be
acquired but it requires manually tracking the build queue
along with PBP builds.

Phost solves that problem also.
Thanks for looking that post up for me BANE. :)
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Hawkeye
Posts: 1029

Post#24 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:10 pm

B A N E,

Cheers for that, I still think it would be good to have an official / defined / exact version of the terms posted under some sort of "house rules" link, rather than in the forums. This would also help to separate a "useful" ship (Eros with T1 engines for hissing and terraforming) versus a queue-stuffer.

User avatar
Gilgamesh
Posts: 4940
Contact:

Post#25 » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:27 pm

Hawkeye wrote: Okay, I've read through this forum, and the thread above, but can't find any official verdict from ][avok. I personally consider building a ship to recycle for PBP the next turn to be within the realms of fair play, but would like to get a definitive answer, so I know how to avoid breaking the rules.

][avok, is there somewhere we can find this official ruling? And if so, would it be an idea to post a link on the homepage to the in-game site rules?

Cheers, Hawkeye
I don't think it's that bad a thing either, but I go with what the majority thinks should happen.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

User avatar
Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#26 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:42 am

B A N E wrote:
Hawkeye,
What you're describing is crawling the Q.
Host.exe doesn't tell the players where the next build will be
nor where their next build will be. That information can be
acquired but it requires manually tracking the build queue
along with PBP builds.

Phost solves that problem also.
Newer played P-host so I might be wrong. I don´t see P-host solving anything, just being a different way af doing it. To my knowledge each ship is build in the order it is put into the que. Unless build for PBP.

So it might likely be that ships build for PBP is build reasonable well, but in return many crap ship might be build in the que since it is not possiable to upgrade those witout losing position in the que.

I might be wrong since I newer played P-host, but I suspect the above to be the result of the way P-host treat shipbuilding?

Not better or worse just different.
Regards,

Captain Blood

User avatar
Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#27 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:28 am

How fast the players build greatly influence the question of which race will likely win the game.

To make the races as equal as possiable it is importent to reach the 500 ship limit about turn 20 with 11 players.

Else Lizard and the carrier races gain to much strenght due to building in large numbers and having the strongest ships.

Another advantage of reaching the ship limit about turn 20 is that all races build mostly good ships, since they are less likely to run out of minerals and MC.

If the ship limit is reached later some races or players might run out of minerals or MC and start to build SDSD to close the queue to stop other competing races/players in gaining to much power.

In a wargame it does not make sence to wait and allow for the enemy to build up there warfleet. If the enemy is somewhat slow to build up his position/warfleet it is his problem.

If the lizard use 30 turns for building 65 ships then it is no problem reaching the ship limit in turn 30, as long as the remaining races plays at equal speed. If he had build 165 ships in turn 30 who is to blame lizard or the players who allowed him to do it?

My point is that if the players is somewhat equal skilled q-stuffing is not really a problem. Since no player run out of money or minerals before the rest. The solution is not forbidding q-stuffing but making rated games.

Equal skilled players gives more interesting games for all participants.
Regards,

Captain Blood

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#28 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:03 am

Hawkeye wrote:B A N E,

Cheers for that, I still think it would be good to have an official / defined / exact version of the terms posted under some sort of "house rules" link, rather than in the forums. This would also help to separate a "useful" ship (Eros with T1 engines for hissing and terraforming) versus a queue-stuffer.
It is in the house rules. Look at your original email message you received when you signed up for the site.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#29 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:10 am

Captain Blood wrote:How fast the players build greatly influence the question of which race will likely win the game.

To make the races as equal as possiable it is importent to reach the 500 ship limit about turn 20 with 11 players.

Else Lizard and the carrier races gain to much strenght due to building in large numbers and having the strongest ships.

Another advantage of reaching the ship limit about turn 20 is that all races build mostly good ships, since they are less likely to run out of minerals and MC.

If the ship limit is reached later some races or players might run out of minerals or MC and start to build SDSD to close the queue to stop other competing races/players in gaining to much power.

In a wargame it does not make sence to wait and allow for the enemy to build up there warfleet. If the enemy is somewhat slow to build up his position/warfleet it is his problem.

If the lizard use 30 turns for building 65 ships then it is no problem reaching the ship limit in turn 30, as long as the remaining races plays at equal speed. If he had build 165 ships in turn 30 who is to blame lizard or the players who allowed him to do it?

My point is that if the players is somewhat equal skilled q-stuffing is not really a problem. Since no player run out of money or minerals before the rest. The solution is not forbidding q-stuffing but making rated games.

Equal skilled players gives more interesting games for all participants.
No player should have 160+ small deep space freighters in addition to the rest of their fleet Capt. Blood. That's queue stuffing.

Queue stuffing is a problem when a player is purposely building ships to prevent other players from doing so. Hence the term "Queue Stuffing" and why I call it a cheap exploit of Tim's design.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#30 » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:54 am

As an outside observer, I figure the rule laid down for this game is pretty clear.

If you disagree, don't join it.

Simple.
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

Return to “Ask Cherek”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron