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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:41 pm
by casebolt
I agree with Havok but disagree with you Fletch. :D

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:55 pm
by Captain Blood
Havok wrote:No player should have 160+ small deep space freighters in addition to the rest of their fleet Capt. Blood. That's queue stuffing.

Queue stuffing is a problem when a player is purposely building ships to prevent other players from doing so. Hence the term "Queue Stuffing" and why I call it a cheap exploit of Tim's design.
The problem was more in the design of that special scenario than the players as I remember. As it was I played my race with it advantages and drawbacks according to the special shiplist, turnament design and rules.

Those infamous "SDSF" was the best ships I could build the first 20 turns, so naturally I got a lot of them. Other races had usefull attacking ships in there early shiplist and less use of hissers so they did build different.

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:30 pm
by B A N E
For Matt & me, the events of Arena are history.
Lesson learned:
We blundered in the design of the freighters.
That blunder is fixed in the shiplist for any future runs of Arena.

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:43 pm
by Havok
Captain Blood wrote:
Havok wrote:No player should have 160+ small deep space freighters in addition to the rest of their fleet Capt. Blood. That's queue stuffing.

Queue stuffing is a problem when a player is purposely building ships to prevent other players from doing so. Hence the term "Queue Stuffing" and why I call it a cheap exploit of Tim's design.
The problem was more in the design of that special scenario than the players as I remember. As it was I played my race with it advantages and drawbacks according to the special shiplist, turnament design and rules.

Those infamous "SDSF" was the best ships I could build the first 20 turns, so naturally I got a lot of them. Other races had usefull attacking ships in there early shiplist and less use of hissers so they did build different.
The bottom line is... If you want to stuff the queue... Don't do it here. :)

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:54 pm
by FLETCH
casebolt wrote:I agree with Havok but disagree with you Fletch. :D
That doesn't surprise me...

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:58 pm
by Captain Blood
I know that I should newer have entered this tread to start with. Odds where I would likely end up as shapegoat for explaining the game mecanics that might lead to that some players end up with more SDSF/Eros/Probes than our host find appropriate.

Hopefully some players can follow my arguments, but my main goal was to let most players understand that they are not to be worried about q-stuffing.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Like Bane I had laid Arena behind me, and I was not the one who brought it up again.

Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:12 pm
by Vodenkugels
I try to catch all these forums-

Sometimes I'll build sdsf and put 3's -6's on 'em. hopefully they'll be able to reach a nearby planet -even if i have to scorch the engines- and with a fleet of say 6 ( 3 coming and going at the same time )they do the work of a med freighter and i know down the road i can recycle and put the engines on say a DW or crystal thunder when i'm ready, I really don't see the harm . the ships are somewhat useful but the parts are destined to build a true warship eventually. I do have to agree that receiving NO pbp's would discourage even that. but when playing a race that can't build a cheap hisser or such. it seems like a smart thing to do ,if just to even out the ship totals.

Is that considered stuffing?


This site is awesome and i want to keep with the norm and not bend the rules.
Stuffing to me means building absolutely worthless ships with the sole intention of preventing someone else from building. But worthless is a very subjective term. if your hurting for cash or minerals and want to build something that has at least a little function, how is that different from say the feds building refits etc?

I agree it's ][avoks site and if you don't want to comply go elsewhere, but it still appears to be a very grey area.

Any thoughts???????????????

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 6:28 pm
by Hawkeye
Vodenkugels wrote: This site is awesome and i want to keep with the norm and not bend the rules.
Stuffing to me means building absolutely worthless ships with the sole intention of preventing someone else from building. But worthless is a very subjective term. if your hurting for cash or minerals and want to build something that has at least a little function, how is that different from say the feds building refits etc?

I agree it's ][avoks site and if you don't want to comply go elsewhere, but it still appears to be a very grey area.
Yup, I'm in agreement with this. The question that needs to be asked is, where is the line drawn between a q-stuffer and a useable ship?

Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:26 pm
by Havok
Hawkeye wrote:
Vodenkugels wrote: This site is awesome and i want to keep with the norm and not bend the rules.
Stuffing to me means building absolutely worthless ships with the sole intention of preventing someone else from building. But worthless is a very subjective term. if your hurting for cash or minerals and want to build something that has at least a little function, how is that different from say the feds building refits etc?

I agree it's ][avoks site and if you don't want to comply go elsewhere, but it still appears to be a very grey area.
Yup, I'm in agreement with this. The question that needs to be asked is, where is the line drawn between a q-stuffer and a useable ship?
You build to the needs of your fleet. Warships, Logistical Ships... etc... If you have 100+ SMDF's, then you're probably a wee bit excessive.

Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:03 pm
by Vodenkugels
Never more than a half-dozen or so -By then they're getting recycled( and again the PBP is a bonus not the intention), I'd still do this regardless of the PBP's, for the engines-three's for a real expendable(read sacraficial) towed warship and hopefully sixes at least on the others...

ROCK ON

P.S. took advantage of all the pauses to get some fun canoeing in-I'll get my turns in shortly for those concerned. :twisted: