The FABULOUS help thread

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

Poll: Time to call the Pit Game?

Poll ended at Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:28 pm

Yes
5
83%
No
1
17%
Total votes: 6

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Rimstalker
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Post#46 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:12 pm

here comes another slap: There is so many things you don't know about planets, I have no clue where to start.

I could start with combat. Which of these do you know?

Fed Scotty Bonus - details
Left side carrier advantage
Right side torper advantage
Threshold for fighters doing 1 point of hulldamage
Borg Cube can fire all torps in ship vs. ship combat, still take out maxxed base. Explain
Number of beams with the highest average hulldamage in torper versus carrier is in most cases not max beam number for that torper hullslot. Why?
details of cloaked intercept
what happens when a planet kills all the crew on a ship?
what were NUK traps?
How do you capture Lizard ships with over 100% damage.
Under which conditions can those Lizard ships exist?
How can you destroy a massive Torper fleet with torpers without a single one of your torpers being destoyed?
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Post#47 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:35 pm

See? Everything is about offending another person.
Rimstalker wrote:here comes another slap
Why does it have to be a slap? Why are you immediately taking an offensive standpoint in trying to prove yourself? I already accepted that you are a better player. I've noted that in several previous posts.

I have a problem with your attitude and how you act-- not what you know.

If you want to level the playing field, simply say something. Don't string it out piecemeal like you're trying to teach me anything. With that sort of attitude, I don't want to be your student.
Rimstalker wrote: There is so many things you don't know about planets, I have no clue where to start.
Why don't I help you for a change? Proper grammar dictates that the sentence structure should be "There are so many things..."

Let's move on.
Rimstalker wrote: Explain
Number of beams with the highest average hulldamage in torper versus carrier is in most cases not max beam number for that torper hullslot. Why?
Carriage returns not withstanding, I can only assume you're asking the question "If a Torpedo ship is fighting a Carrier, its beams--" you know what? Fuck it. I have no idea what you're attempting to ask there.

Furthermore, "Torpers" should be "Torpedo Ships" lest your reader think you have a thing for individuals who like to sleep (as in the term "torpor" but whatever, you knew that already didn't you? You were just trying to catch me-- ooo, you're a wily intelligent one).

"destoyed" should be "destroyed." I'll chalk that one up to a mistype. That happens to the best of us.

If you have any questions about proper grammar and punctuation, feel free to keep typing out posts. I'll be happy to help you out in your continued education of the English Language.
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Donovan
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Post#48 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:36 pm

During this game I've done a lot of testing on how the colonial stuff works, and on the Cybernaut. Other races' stuff I have only tested as we encountered them, e.g. the Fascists missiles, Fed Sweettalk, Borg cube intercept and the Empire's Gorbie capture beam. I don't think I've tested the Viral Field against the Colonial bubble thingy, because we started our alliance pretty soon in the game.

Basically, once a ship is inside a Viral Field it is screwed. Simple as that. So you have to attack the Cybernaut from outside the field. With normal combat, and perhaps using some Jupiter abilities.

I admit, that is very hard to do against a Robot player with a Colonial ally. Countermining becomes next to impossible, and with an Ion Storm you cannot minesweep. So anything you throw at the Cybernaut is likely to arrive with heavy damage. If you add to this problem that in The Pit, Rimstalker simply had and has more heavy battleships than any other player, you see the problem.

I still think most Jupiter abilities, when used right, are very hard to fight against. That is not to say it's a balanced addon, but there are plenty of other abilities that are nearly impossible to counter. I've used Sweettalk in the past, and forced a surrender on many ships with it. Not much to counter that. I don't have any experience with the Lizards, but those anti fighter mines scare the crap out of me when playing the Colonies - I'd have absolutely no weapon against it. I've commented before on Fascist missiles. Especially in the Pit setup, they can drive a guy out of his homecluster from the get-go, with no possible defense. Sure you can build heavy phasers, but try that from turn one. The list goes on. And yes I will fully admit that the Ion Control is perhaps the worst of them all. Storms cover minefields, and even if you manage to attack the ships that control the storm, the storm doesn't disappear.

As far as running testgames goes: it's a personal choice whether someone wants to do that or not. Personally, I think it's fun to find out exactly how stuff works in VGA Planets. Two of the things I like most about this game is that you can do this, and that there's time between turns to do this.

In other games, I don't do that because I don't enjoy that. I can totally understand most players who do not want to run testgames to dig up the weird ways that this game and it's addons work. I play other games too, where practice and/or more time invested would also make me a better player, but in those games I don't do that. In all games, once you run into someone who knows how the game works better than you do, you're facing an uphill battle.

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Rimstalker
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Post#49 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:43 pm

It really is up to you Jonny, if you want to learn.

About the Torpers - where both the 'T' and the 'S' in your corrections should be lowercase, btw.: Do some Tanascius sims, let's say a Vicky vs. a Biocide, start with 10 beams on the Vicky, lower the beamcount by 1 in each iteration. Be amazed. Then try to find the reason.
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Post#50 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:00 pm

Rimstalker wrote:It really is up to you Jonny, if you want to learn.

About the Torpers - where both the 'T' and the 'S' in your corrections should be lowercase, btw.: Do some Tanascius sims, let's say a Vicky vs. a Biocide, start with 10 beams on the Vicky, lower the beamcount by 1 in each iteration. Be amazed. Then try to find the reason.
I do wish to learn, just not from you. I'd like to think that the history of my posts are indicative of that fact. I try to keep an open mind, but when someone is talking down to me, it's very difficult for me to remain a student for very long. When I've let some bygones be bygones, I might wander back to this thread and try what you've suggested. For now, though, I will choose not to.
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Donovan
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Post#51 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:00 am

Rimstalker wrote:here comes another slap: There is so many things you don't know about planets, I have no clue where to start.

I could start with combat. Which of these do you know?
Easy there cowboy, forget the quantum leap and start with the basics. I think most of the folks in the Pit will benefit more by getting some pointers on those, than from insight in the inner mechanics of combat.

Not to step on anyone's toes, but I think that's where most of this specific game has been lost and where most of the folks can make the 'easiest' improvements to their game.

Generally speaking, the folks with the big carriers usually end up with less ships than others. Races like Feds, Lizards, Birdmen, Fascists, Privateers and Crystals should really outbuild the other races in number of ships. Also, the smaller battleships can often be built from early in the game, while big carrier races need more time to establish enough supply-lines to their bases to keep producing carriers. They require more minerals and usually a lot more engines. The non-carrier races need to take advantage of this, because it simply takes two or more of their ships to take down one big carrier. In this game, that did not happen.

By the way, The Pit scenario did not help the 'smaller' races either. Lizards, Birds and Fascists need to be agressive early, get to their neighbors before those have the time to get up defenses and build an economy. That's a lot harder than normal when the next neigbor is some 500 lightyears through open space.

Basic advice: get your economy into gear before anything else.
- make maximum use of natives for taxation
- make maximum use of free tech natives for starbases. Ghipsoldals are usually best, you can build ships with transwarps without paying for the upgrade to enginetech 10. Most races have some lowtech useful ships, or can at least build large freighters with hulltech six.
- make maximum use of minerals. On planets with no natives, just maximize mines. With Jupiter, you can sell excess mines when the minerals are gone to get some of your investment back.
- on planets with natives, see what you need more. Lots of taxes (you'll want to build less mines and factories), or minerals fast. Again, with Jupiter, you can stripmine with many mines, and then sell them to help native happiness for the rest of the game.
- always maximize factories. You can either sell the supplies for extra cash, or use a Merlin to convert them to the mineral you want. Pair with a neutronic refinery in case you need fuel.
- grow your colonists. Teleport saves you the hassle of moving them around in freighters. Find a planet with a good temperature, and teleport a bunch of colonists. Above 6.6 million, they grow at only half the normal rate.
- logistics are important. Having eight bases is useless if only three of them can build proper ships. I think most races have built too few freighters in this game.

Once you have those down, start thinking about combat, stuff that is specific for your race and/or your enemies, and about addons. Those are important too, but prettymuch useless if you simply get outbuilt by the others.

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BitMask
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Post#52 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:22 am

Very good tips Donovan. Economy is the key to any VGAP game.

Edit:
It also takes the most time for your game play if you do not use those nice tools (RandMax with Echoview , Tanacius or JVC AutoBuild)

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#53 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:09 am

Good advice Donovan. It all starts with economy. You cannot compete in ANY game if you can't manage your economy.
Logistics are critical. The most important decisions you will make in VGAP concern logistics -- setting up (and protecting) freighter routes and finding ways to rapidly move money and minerals where you need them, when you need them. If you can master VGAP economics and logistics, you can win with ANY race. VGAP may be a game of tactics, but ALL tactics depend on having a robust economic and logistics network in place to support them.
Another critical element is KNOWING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN and KNOWING HOW THINGS WORK. I refer to Donovan's site at least once in every single turn I play -- everything you need to know to be successful is there. HOST ORDER IS IMPORTANT. If you're playing with addons, you NEED to know when in host order the addon runs. If you doubt this statement consider the following: The Teleport addon runs AFTER starbases are built. This means you can build a starbase and transfer money, minerals, supplies, or colonists to it in THE SAME TURN. That's HUGE when there's a carrier bearing down on a cluster -- you have the potential to build a base, maximize its defenses, and stock it with fighters all in two turns.
Lots of people like Donovan have spent a lot of time pulling together VGAP resources and references. Use them religiously. Your game will be better for it.
>>> Raven <<<

BC_Guy
Posts: 73

Post#54 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Cardno wrote:
Gee, watching this forum is like watching a couple breaking up.... the real question is just WHO will get the last word!

BitMask wrote:
The making up should be interesting to watch
I think the making up will be just as ugly as the breaking up :shock:

---------------
Thanks for the reminder about the basics Donovan -- back to 'reality'.. However regarding:
. logistics are important. Having eight bases is useless if only three of them can build proper ships. I think most races have built too few freighters in this game.
Being the empire, i built SBs 1. to get free fighters and 2. to transport stuff long distances, esp in to the Pit.
In general, shouldn't races with free fighters build lots of SBs ? (ignoring of course the CofM FBA ability :roll: )

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#55 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:05 pm

BC_Guy wrote: Being the empire, i built SBs 1. to get free fighters and 2. to transport
stuff long distances, esp in to the Pit.
In general, shouldn't races with free fighters build lots of SBs ? (ignoring of course the CofM FBA ability :roll: )
The EE is a different animal and much harder to effectively play than
the other carrier races.

The EE must build bases to build fighters.

The balancing act is to get enough bases to build the fighters while not
cutting too much into the gorbie production.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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JonnyDoH
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Post#56 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:44 pm

Definitely great tips. Thanks folks.

Also, changed the title of the thread to match the posts. I like how this thread is evolving.

Donovan and I exchanged a bunch of PM's. He's a great guy and I should make it known that I take back anything I may have said or insinuated about him in my posts. I have the highest respect for him. Not that my opinion matters that much.

...I should also add that while Gay Pride Weekend just passed, there will be no lurid make outs happening between players. Sorry for all you voyeurs out there. ...Sickos.
Your go-to source for bargain basement, high quality cardboard armored war ships!

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Cardno
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Post#57 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:32 pm

JonnyDoH wrote:Definitely great tips. Thanks folks.

Also, changed the title of the thread to match the posts. I like how this thread is evolving.

Donovan and I exchanged a bunch of PM's. He's a great guy and I should make it known that I take back anything I may have said or insinuated about him in my posts. I have the highest respect for him. Not that my opinion matters that much.

...I should also add that while Gay Pride Weekend just passed, there will be no lurid make outs happening between players. Sorry for all you voyeurs out there. ...Sickos.
Me thinkist thou protestith too muchith. :wink:

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Post#58 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:01 pm

Cardno wrote:
JonnyDoH wrote:Definitely great tips. Thanks folks.

Also, changed the title of the thread to match the posts. I like how this thread is evolving.

Donovan and I exchanged a bunch of PM's. He's a great guy and I should make it known that I take back anything I may have said or insinuated about him in my posts. I have the highest respect for him. Not that my opinion matters that much.

...I should also add that while Gay Pride Weekend just passed, there will be no lurid make outs happening between players. Sorry for all you voyeurs out there. ...Sickos.
Me thinkist thou protestith too muchith. :wink:
Oh, who am I fooling? C'mere Cardno. Let's make out.
Your go-to source for bargain basement, high quality cardboard armored war ships!

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Six_Of_One
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Post#59 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:28 am

JonnyDoH wrote:
Cardno wrote:
JonnyDoH wrote:Definitely great tips. Thanks folks.

Also, changed the title of the thread to match the posts. I like how this thread is evolving.

Donovan and I exchanged a bunch of PM's. He's a great guy and I should make it known that I take back anything I may have said or insinuated about him in my posts. I have the highest respect for him. Not that my opinion matters that much.

...I should also add that while Gay Pride Weekend just passed, there will be no lurid make outs happening between players. Sorry for all you voyeurs out there. ...Sickos.
Me thinkist thou protestith too muchith. :wink:
Oh, who am I fooling? C'mere Cardno. Let's make out.
Theres a mental image you simply don't need before dinner :sno:
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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Cardno
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Post#60 » Wed Jun 29, 2011 4:43 am

JonnyDoH wrote:
Cardno wrote:
JonnyDoH wrote:Definitely great tips. Thanks folks.

Also, changed the title of the thread to match the posts. I like how this thread is evolving.

Donovan and I exchanged a bunch of PM's. He's a great guy and I should make it known that I take back anything I may have said or insinuated about him in my posts. I have the highest respect for him. Not that my opinion matters that much.

...I should also add that while Gay Pride Weekend just passed, there will be no lurid make outs happening between players. Sorry for all you voyeurs out there. ...Sickos.
Me thinkist thou protestith too muchith. :wink:
Oh, who am I fooling? C'mere Cardno. Let's make out.
While i'm.....flattered......errr well, no, but anyway...

Sorry Johnny! I don't do artistic types - as much as you artsy fartsy types have a place in the world, you are just FARRRRR too high maintenance!!!!!

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