Game over man, Game over!

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Game over man, Game over!

Post#1 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:19 am

Congratulations to the Crystals for the win! Good game to everyone else.

Warlord, you played *extremely* well as well. There were times I was certain you were going to break through and demolish my home world (and the new home world I gave over to my ally). Around the turn I was questioning how diplomacy worked in this game, you were two jumps from my home planet, with an unbeatable Nova nearby. It was touch and go there for me and I was praying to the VGAP gods for you to turn around [-o< . It put me on a very defensive footing for the rest of the game. Well done!
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BitMask
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Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#2 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:34 am

I would love to hear any feedback on this scenario. If you have any suggestions on what to improve for a next version please let me know.

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FireAge
Posts: 424

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#3 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:50 am

As usual, here is my log, writtin of course, from my viewpoint, and maybe with some additional flavor (who knows) :)
_______________________________
With this new and exciting setting provided by BitMask, I needed to change the default Crystal strategy. Normally I would find a nice ally to provide me with funds and cloakers, but this time I would have to fend mostly for myself… against 3 teams of 2…
Enter diplomacy. All I need to do is make sure to harass the strongest team, so the other teams can catch up. And in the meanwhile rent out my webbing services to help defend the weaker teams and grabbing ships in the process.
But first, expand like crazy and setup my area.

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Bad luck, only turn 11, and already I have found neighbours (lizard in the north, Fed in the east) which are too close for comfort. Worse yet, is that one of the is the lizard, someone I really do not want to mess with in the early game. So I drop some webs and hightail it out of there to see if Lizzy wants a fight or not.
But what does my eye spot on the way back:

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Now that’s a planet worth fighting for. I can heat that up to 50C, and it will be a perfect Bovinoid planet, capable of sustaining a lot of webmining. So I tax all of my natives down to 40% and start a short web offensive. I assumed the lizard would have built his ships with X-rays to start. But unfortunately, he used heavy blasters and disruptors….

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Several turns later, with all of my income gone, I had captured the world and was close to trapping two lizard ships. But I was out of money, so thing were not looking great. And at the same time, the Klingon and Bird combo had appeared at my south side. But the Fed had noticed my struggle with the Lizard and offered me assistance in trade for a NAP and promise of a Loki against the Klingon, should the need arise. So he sent 2 Missouri and 1 Nova towards the Lizard, which gave me time to deal with the south combo.

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I managed to capture the Resolute, but the Illwind got away. And I managed to grab a LCC and a Reptile from the Lizard in the top. The Fed was doing some damage to the lizard, and I was building up my webgrid in the south against the Klingon and Bird. That’s when 6 turns of negotiation through in game mail started with the Klingon and the Bird. Each of us making new demands for borders and peace at every new email, which allowed me to work on a peace agreement with the Lizard.
In return for peace till turn 70, I would be able to give him 6 ships, which he would use to HISS my planets. As I really needed the money, I took that deal, not paying attention to the fact that there was a huge Ion Storm coming to sweep over the lizard territory. That storm + web mines would have been the end of him.

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Around turn 50 is when I was not doing so hot. My expansion had stopped, as neighbors were on all sides. And the Bird was attacking in force in my south-west corner. But I had managed to build up a nice webmine ring around my planets and bases there, so at least I had an early warning system. And as I was enjoying peace with the lizard (+huge income boost) and peace with the Fed., I felt I still had a chance. Then the Bird made a huge mistake in my south-west, getting overconfident by the size of my small webmines. I managed to grab: 3 dark wing, 2 resolutes, 1 Meteor and 1 Large Freighter in my web.

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And with the Hissing income of the lizard, I was quickly able to several large webfields over the area, and maintain them. By turn 62, I had captured 14 of his ships: mostly dark wings and resolutes and was using them to push into his territory.

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And then the Bird dropped out of the game.....

He was way ahead in every aspect of the game, and had the most tonnage sunk, which was the criteria for winning as a team, so that really surprised me a lot. Not long after, his Klingon ally decided to become inactive, sending in empty turns. That sealed the deal rather quickly. I cancelled my alliance with the Fed, which was quickly growing by blasting his opposition to smithereens. And set to work to grab every Bird and Klingon ship floating in space.

Fed had a problem there, because every base he destroyed and every ship he destroyed, cost his ships. And I could just grab all I could find, and left every base I found alone. And for every two ships that the Fed killed, I could build 1 new one.
We had a few minor skirmishes, in which I managed to grab some of his ships, maybe 5-10 in total, but my main gain came of course from the non-active races. Making my victory a bit tainted :P But I’ll take it anyway!

I reached the final goal of 250 ships at turn 93, because it’s still a hell of a lot of work to find and grab all of those ships. So if the Klingon and Bird had not dropped, there would have been no way I would have won. And instead the Fed would have probably taken the victory.

Pictures of turn 60/80/100 to conclude the story are below.

To quote the T3 romulans, who so eloquently put it:
To all who remain, thank you!
To all who quit, QUITTER, LOSER
(With exception of the privateers, who unfortunately got destroyed quite quickly!)

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FireAge
Posts: 424

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#4 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:06 am

And now for the requested feedback:

I think what needs to be done, is to be more clear on the role of the privateer and crystal in the game. The start was a bit confusing, with people not all assuming the same thing about what was and was not possible to do. Which worked in my favour in the end, but it would be nice to be more clear on that by using examples:

Examples of what to do with the privateer/crystal:
_________________________________________________
General
All teams are allowed to have NAP and border agreements with these independent players.

Crystal defense:
You can ask crystal to lay webmines in your area in your race type.
Example payment is that for every 2 torpedoes you supply for the mines, the crystal gets to keep 1.
Or you could ask him to mine the area, but all ships which are cought in the web are his for the taking.

Crystal offense:
You can ask the Crystal to drop webmines in an enemy's region.
Payment could be the cloaker you supply to him to drop the mines.

Privateer defense:
You can request the privateer to wait at one of your worlds to rob an incoming fleet.
Payment could be all of the ships he manages to capture.
(Just be sure to agree on what he does with them once the deal is over >:-) )

Privateer offense:
You can request the privateer to go hunt your enemies freighters.
Payment could be the cloakers you supply him to work with.

Just remember: anything goes with these two races, as long as you stick to the spirit of the game.
They are independent players, with independent goals!
____________________________________________________

Apart from that, it seemed difficult to find players for the game. Even though it had an interesting setting. So maybe the races available are not popular as others? Or people don't like the PHOST? It would have been better to have 4 teams of 2 instead of 3 teams. But you need signups for that.

The target of 250 ships for Crystal or Privateer is too high. I would lower that to 200 ships or 150 ships. Especcialy the privateer has no easy targets available, as all races counter him. But, and I feel this could be done in more games, there should be a kill-switch. Meaning that when a player drops, after 10 turns or so, his ships are all colonized. That still allows people to reap the benefit, but not in an overpowering way.

All in all, I really enjoyed the setting, so thanks a lot for that Bit!

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#5 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 8:27 pm

I really like Arend's idea of making clear what the independents are allowed to do in terms of diplomacy. Spelling things out is always a good thing, especially when you have a scenario where your closest neighbors are already at war with you before you realize they're there.

I can also sympathize with the capture limit for the Crystal and Privateers. The Arend was in a fantastic position after we negotiated NAP terms-- he was able to tax the hell out of his planets and go for HUGE webs (not that I'm complaining-- I benefited a lot from the arrangement), while the privateers in a similar position might not have benefited so much (Indeed, it's my understanding he was working closely with the T3 Fed/Warlord player, since he stole so many of my ally's ships).

In a future setting, I might suggest that the Crystals have a capture quota of 200 ships, while the privateers have a quota of 150. That's just my inexperienced opinion, however. With so many races in this game having access to the loki (as well as so many races with cloakers who could avoid fuel stealing in the first place), however, I believe that the privateer was at a distinct disadvantage this game.

For race combo's, I would suggest that every team have the Federation as part of their combo. Super Refit just adds a whole layer of hurt to any team, as long as they take advantage of it.

Maybe instead of a fourth team we can have two more independents--extra crystal and privateer players. Crystal1 and Crystal2 could not work together, nor could privateer 1 and privateer 2. It would make for an interesting scenario if the teams who make it to the end game utilized the crystals in their particular quadrant of the galaxy...
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BitMask
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Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#6 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 5:27 am

Those are good suggestions. I will ponder on them for next time.
If there are more feedback, please let me know.

One thing that might work is to play a bit with PHosts Advance Anti Cloak and Anti cloak immunity features, or adjusting the shiplist a bit.

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FireAge
Posts: 424

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#7 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:11 am

Another interesting variation of the setting would be to add the Borg to the scenario as an independent player.
Goal of the Borg would of course be total cluster domination (let's say 250 planets?) :)
And not allowed to communicate with the crystal/privateer at all. (other than to say they will be assimilated)

Fits the idea of having a star trek type space with feuds between the various factions of the races, but now with a bigger fish coming to the pond.

Then you have 3 independent players, which are generally easy to fill.
And 3 or 4 sets of 2 players, which could be harder to fill.

Optional could be to have 1 person control both races of a team.
Not sure that would work out.

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akshamu
Posts: 499

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#8 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:27 pm

My one piece of feedback is to thank my teammate for his patience with all of my blunders that ended up putting him in a difficult position and me with little ability to help him early on.
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BitMask
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Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#9 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:51 pm

I did play with the Borg idea in my original concept, but they can be overwhelming if you thing that the rest of the players are all torpedo races.
Maybe a scaled down version or something...

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FireAge
Posts: 424

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#10 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:19 pm

Yes and no. If he does not have allies, he will always be facing against a 2 person team. And with the TList 1.1, there is a bit more balance.

Option could be to cancel the Biocide. That way everyone is doing the torpedo dance. Annihilations will still be the best ship in the game, but it will not kill two novas. But having the Biocide in the game will add more threat. And it will force creativity with glory-ships, mines, hired webmines etc in order not to weaken yourself too much while fighting them.

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#11 » Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:28 pm

Oooo. Borg Biocides. That would put the threat on things. Ultimately everyone would likely work together, enemies or no, just to take out that threat... Either that or the Privateers would end up with some really nice toys...

Akshamu: No worries and my pleasure. That's what allies are for. Plus, I made plenty of blunders too. The situation could easily have been reversed. =D
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BitMask
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Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#12 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:53 am

The rematch is taking signups now.

Super Tech
Posts: 69

Re: Game over man, Game over!

Post#13 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:58 pm

FireAge wrote:Option could be to cancel the Biocide. That way everyone is doing the torpedo dance.
Let's remove the Thunder too, the baddest warship in the game. Just kidding, it costs a fortune to load fighters and I found that two Dark wings kill a Thunder. However that only happened once and on his terms. I couldn't get get through the webs to initiate my own battles. Most of my fleet was tech 10 beams, but Bird ships have tiny fuel tanks. I did get to snipe some Crystal ships as they were laying seed webs. I should have pushed for planet 500 mfx trick early (assuming that works in PHOST)

I got to fight the birds as a bird then I got to fight Crystal owned bird ships. Oh boy, I'm glad that is over!

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