Microsoft Vista

Excited about that hot new video game? Wanna brag about your sweet new gadget? Here's a place for you to talk about it!

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

User avatar
RealMurphy
Posts: 150

Post#16 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:20 am

In principle it's more than just that. Over the past years I'm phasing out of the Windows world entirely.

I'm far from being extreme to the extend of people from FSF and the like, but I am really, really concerned about Vista and its so-called security model. In principle it is good, that drivers are certified and even signed, but when this can be revoked by an external source one should ask why and how.

The intend might be good, but the means of achieving this (by your computer asking the MS-servers if all drivers are still fine or if one of them needs to be updated. It's fine unless something goes wrong, e.g. imagine a hacker gaining access to one of these servers and blacklisting all graphic card drivers along with the network drivers. The only solution then would be to reinstall the system and wait until the compromised servers are back to normal.

This is especially true for this HD-content hype with HDMI-encryption... has anyone read their EULI think there is a passage like:

“When you download licenses for protected content, you agree that Microsoft may include a revocation list with the licenses [...] content owners may ask Microsoft to revoke the software's ability to use WMDRM to play or copy protected content ” — Windows Vista EULA.

Such a flaw was used in Japanses's version of WinDVD to extrect HD-DVD keys. Now image you bought the flawed version, it gets blacklisted and only an upgrade to the next major release will help here. Do you think this update will be free of charge? I doubt it, but I hope I may be wrong.

A nice read is this cost analysis: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html

Another nice article is here:
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423/1

I'll stop my rant here, but in case anyone here bought an upgrade from an earlier version and the problem, that the upgrade process requires an *installed* older version of Windows on the hard disk, there might be a trick (however, I have just read about that)

Install the system without entering the product ID(?), effectively installing a 30 days trial version. After that rerun the installation, this time with the product ID and et voila, your set.

No strings attached.

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#17 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:04 pm

Well for some us we don't have a CHOICE, we have to jump on the newest product. I have had clients pounding me since Oct, about drivers, XPS printing, Software compatibility, and over all function. The only real "rights" issue I can see, is having to validate all your software, both MicroSoft and Other Vendors(means we have to Really buy all of our Products). Lots of changes in this one so far, the Rolodex, is interesting, and I hate the new Network setup, but for some of my sales people it will be easier. Now I did have to do a test run with IPv6 Configuration, for a Fed agency and Vista made it very simple to do.
As for some of the Software compatiblity, it isn't much difference than Apples, 9x to 10x. Most of the software I have tested has worked with no issues, but it has been mostly main stream software, Apps like Trillian most likely had to wait for the release, as they are don't have any agreements with Mr. Bill. As for the Rights issues, I have more of a problem with Sony and what they are doing to DRM side of things with HDMI to screw as ALL over and what we watch.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Vista

Post#18 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:13 pm

RealMurphy wrote:Sorry for the rant, but can anyone explain to me, why you all jump onboard of Vista where you pay a lot of money for less rights?

It is true, that the appearance looks much nicer than the old XP style, but is that being enough to put *your* computer under the control of others?

Just my 2 €-cent ;)
I haven't jumped on the Vista boat yet, but I will be setting up a Vista machine as soon as I get my RTM edition. Working with PC's and their issues is what I do so I need to know it. 8)
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#19 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:14 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:
Havok wrote:
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:Enemy#1, you didn't look at my first message, I said SendTurn Pro works. I can also say that Tanascius works also.

I haven't been able to get Trillian to work yet. Apparently there is a service that Trillian needs and can't find or access, I currently trying to track it down. I haven't tried Skype.
Trillian has a new Vista version coming out called Trillian Astera. It's getting ready to go into beta.

http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/ap/
It is still "Under Development".

I'm about 80% sure that this weekend, Vista will be replaced by WinXP on my system. This is not because Vista itself isn’t bad, it's just that I can't afford to replace all my software that isn't compatible with Vista at this time. Once I upgrade some of my software, I'll slap Vista on again.
Just curious Cherek. Why didn't you install it as a second OS? You should have been asked that when you put it in?
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#20 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:36 pm

Havok,
Get used to having people set there software to Windows XP SP2 Compatibilty, in the SM LIST. XP and Vista are living in Harmony so far on the laptop. XPS printing testing is all I am really using it for, as well as driver interface changes. I love it when people run like Lemmings on both sides, 1 to adopt it, and the others to bash it without even trying it. Both sides using quotes from groups that are very baised.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#21 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 12:48 pm

Enemy#1 wrote:Havok,
Get used to having people set there software to Windows XP SP2 Compatibilty, in the SM LIST. XP and Vista are living in Harmony so far on the laptop. XPS printing testing is all I am really using it for, as well as driver interface changes. I love it when people run like Lemmings on both sides, 1 to adopt it, and the others to bash it without even trying it. Both sides using quotes from groups that are very baised.
I'm getting ready to do the thing, except I'm going for 3 OS's.

I just picked up a new laptop hard drive over the weekend (160 gig) and am going to put XP, Vista and Mandriva 2007 on the thing. Cross your fingers :)

As for Vista I have no comments on it yet. I haven't messed with it since RC1 and it wouldn't install on my test box at the time. I'll be able to tell you more this weekend.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#22 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:30 pm

RealMurphy wrote:
“When you download licenses for protected content, you agree that Microsoft may include a revocation list with the licenses [...] content owners may ask Microsoft to revoke the software's ability to use WMDRM to play or copy protected content ” — Windows Vista EULA.

A nice read is this cost analysis: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html

Another nice article is here:
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423/1

I'll stop my rant here, but in case anyone here bought an upgrade from an earlier version and the problem, that the upgrade process requires an *installed* older version of Windows on the hard disk, there might be a trick (however, I have just read about that)

Install the system without entering the product ID(?), effectively installing a 30 days trial version. After that rerun the installation, this time with the product ID and et voila, your set.

No strings attached.
I was reading your 1st link, and it was interesting, but you need to catch up on what Sony is doing with Blu-Ray, that has started and Forced everybody to follow this kind of DRM. Where its easy to Bash Mr. Bill and its fun, the real truth is MS, isn't doing any of this, they are following the rules set down by the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD(Microsoft is a Player here)
and HD-DVD is not as of now forcing us to use HDMI to see see movies at 720p or 1080p at the moment, but I feel that will change( as more and More Movie Makers are in both camps).

Sony went so far as to flex its muscle and forced a code change in the HDMI 1.2a, which was released in Dec 2005. and have increased the code encryption in HDMI1.3 and 1.3a. So if you want to get 1080p or better resolution you have to use HDMI1.2a, and all those DRM issues you are complaining about in Vista are part of the RFC for HDMI 1.2a and Better, and as of the beginning of this year, you will have a hard time finding any HDMI cable that isn't 1.3a.

Sony has ensured starting this year, that all Blu-Ray movies require HDMI 1.3 or better to play any better than 520p. So all those worries are REALLY based on what has happened in the HDMI space not Vista, its just easier to point out that MS is doing this in thier software, and forget that the Movie Makers lead by Sony have pushed through, this techology, and have embedded this technolgy in their MOVIES and the rest of their mediea, and if you want to beable to play these movies you will be required to meet these requirements.

Have you checked out Apples EULA about playing HD or Blu-Ray movies? It almost looks like MS copied Apples statement and reaplaced Apple with Microsoft. End of Rant, Cause I could go all day how about Sony and the movie companies are SCREWING US ALL OVER ROYALY.

As for Vista upgrade looking for a version of MS OS out there, is nothing new, its been doing it since 98 2nd edition, and there are a so many ways around that, its not even funny, and they all still work.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#23 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:48 pm

Klauser wrote:I can answer that - at least in part.

There are at least several posters here - including ][avok - who work in the IT industry. Since people buying new computers are now going to come with Vista installed, and they are going to expect their Vista-based computers to work flawlessly with their favorite apps. When they DON'T - they are going to want to have someone who can answer those questions.
Thank you Klauser.

Here are four reasons why I have Vista.

1. I needed a new system anyway since mine CRAPPED OUT on me. So I had two choices, a. Order new parts (MB, video card, memory and power supply), put my new sysem together, install new drives and redo my XP install CD with new drivers and XP patches, or b. Configure a system and have it shipped to me with Vista already installed.
2. Wait year or so and pay for Vista after I did 1a above.
3. What Klauser said above.
4. Because I wanted to.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#24 » Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:50 pm

Havok wrote:Just curious Cherek. Why didn't you install it as a second OS? You should have been asked that when you put it in?
The last project I'll be doing is to make it a dual boot system, one system XP and the other will be Vista.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#25 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:20 am

when i finally got my money to buy me a laptop, it will be one part stolen ms-whateversystem and one part either linux - like ubuntu - or mac-os.... depending on the one fact: do i buy a mac-book or not. 8)
have fun!

hennef

User avatar
RealMurphy
Posts: 150

Post#26 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:25 am

Just a small round-up from me since I'm pretty busy right now:

Sure thing, if your job depends on Vista, go for it, as long as the customers pay you :)

For my part, I've stolen myself out of the Windows support regime some time ago, now telling all the ppl I know, I don't use windows anymore, search the web or use another system.

Regarding EULA: Yeah, the Apple EULA is also pretty bad, another reason not to use Macs (plus the price tag). Sure, many things are nice, but many are not.

User avatar
Cardno
Posts: 3706
Contact:

Post#27 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:27 am

RealMurphy wrote:A nice read is this cost analysis: http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/p ... _cost.html

Another nice article is here:
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/423/1

I'll stop my rant here, but in case anyone here bought an upgrade from an earlier version and the problem, that the upgrade process requires an *installed* older version of Windows on the hard disk, there might be a trick (however, I have just read about that)

Install the system without entering the product ID(?), effectively installing a 30 days trial version. After that rerun the installation, this time with the product ID and et voila, your set.

No strings attached.
Nice to see a kiwi author quoted :D

User avatar
RealMurphy
Posts: 150

Post#28 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:34 am

Cardno wrote:
Nice to see a kiwi author quoted :D
My pleasure, although I hate Kiwis (the fruit) ;)

User avatar
Cardno
Posts: 3706
Contact:

Post#29 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:40 am

Cardno wrote:
RealMurphy wrote:
Cardno wrote:
Nice to see a kiwi author quoted :D
My pleasure, although I hate Kiwis (the fruit) ;)
mate - they are great! also i am considered a bit strange here, in that i even eat the skin and everything :D
That would make you strange pretty much everywhere wouldn't it Cardno? :pointlaugh:

User avatar
FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#30 » Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:51 am

They are also known as Japanese Gooseberries :wink:
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

Return to “Technology & Games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron