New Ally game addon

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B A N E
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Post#16 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:23 am

I didn't know about that, thanks!
I see mention (indirectly) of some other wonderful bugs.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Six_Of_One
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Post#17 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:09 am

I'm sure a great proportion of us here who own a mirror are well aware of grey/gray areas :P

Talking about what was and wasn't possible in the early days, is informative but straying from the path.

Surely the easiest way to state what is or isn't allowed in a particular game is a statement by the game maker/requester:

One Ally with cooperation (NAP's, trades etc allowed)
One Ally with NO cooperation (no NAP's or anything except with your one ally)

[Substitute No Ally for those No Ally games.....]


And this doesn't stop me (Birds) laying a Lizard minefield in say Fed territory to cause trouble 8)
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

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Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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B A N E
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Post#18 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 7:24 am

Six_Of_One wrote: One Ally with cooperation (NAP's, trades etc allowed)
One Ally with NO cooperation (no NAP's or anything except with your one ally)

[Substitute No Ally for those No Ally games.....]

And this doesn't stop me (Birds) laying a Lizard minefield in say Fed territory to cause trouble 8)
I like it!
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Krait
Posts: 110

Post#19 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 10:44 am

Six_Of_One wrote:Surely the easiest way to state what is or isn't allowed in a particular game is a statement by the game maker/requester:

One Ally with cooperation (NAP's, trades etc allowed)
One Ally with NO cooperation (no NAP's or anything except with your one ally)

[Substitute No Ally for those No Ally games.....]

I think this would be reasonable, presuming one or the other didn't become defacto default due to someone's personal preferences. I like both...the best part of these games to me is the diplomacy and deception. Many of the races are non-starters for a solo win given random setups. You can see that by the frequent drop outs after the players have a chance to evaluate position and resources, which is why they seek out negotiations to improve thier chances.

I am not interested in a debate about what "good" or experienced players should or should not do once they accept a game, but actions speak volumes.
been there, done that...

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Captain Blood
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Post#20 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:50 pm

Krait wrote: I am not interested in a debate about what "good" or experienced players should or should not do once they accept a game, but actions speak volumes.
Should I understand this as because some players cheat it is ok for the rest to cheat? :roll:

I might have misunderstood your point. In which case I appology.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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Krait
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Post#21 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:24 pm

Captain Blood wrote:
Krait wrote: I am not interested in a debate about what "good" or experienced players should or should not do once they accept a game, but actions speak volumes.
Should I understand this as because some players cheat it is ok for the rest to cheat? :roll:

I might have misunderstood your point. In which case I appology.
Never meant to imply any such thing. My comment was regarding what people expect other people to do based on their perceptions and expectations. Where no clearly written or enumerated boundries are set, people will have widely divergent conclusions as to how to proceed. The basic premise I have generally observed, if the rules do not exclude it, it is permissable and you should proceed with every expectation that is how others will respond.

I remember getting my assed kicked in a game once on the Trolls board. I absolutely was convinced the other party was cheating. I appealed to Red Troll to investigate. After checking, and allowing the game to end, I found out that the other player knew something I didn't and executed it in a way I had not allowed for. He was a better player in that game. I was a whining loser looking for an excuse.

The bottom line, don't tell me how I'm supposed to play the game, make the rules and enforce them. If people don't like the rules, they won't play. If you have to make overly detailed rules trying to cover every circumstance...you have a problem with the game.

All that said, I'm sorry I posted. Have a good one.
been there, done that...

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Rimstalker
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Post#22 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 5:17 pm

I was once playing a game as Birds, and I accused other players of forming a five-way alliance. They denied it - while I was superspying their planets, seeing the 'srX' FCs that are used by PHCc to email the rsts to your allies...

Personally, I have made it a habit of interpreting early alliance offers as giant flashing 'I suck, kick me' signs. And of course I prefer to join no-ally games with better known players.
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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Gilgamesh
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Post#23 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 6:21 pm

I am definitely getting to prefer no-ally games as long as everyone follows the spirit of the game.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Donovan
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Post#24 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 2:34 am

Rimstalker wrote:Personally, I have made it a habit of interpreting early alliance offers as giant flashing 'I suck, kick me' signs.
Hey! :oops: :evil:

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Rimstalker
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Post#25 » Thu Mar 31, 2011 6:36 am

well, I did force the issue there by contacting you.
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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Shardin5
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Post#26 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:45 pm

Six_Of_One wrote:
One Ally with cooperation (NAP's, trades etc allowed)
One Ally with NO cooperation (no NAP's or anything except with your one ally)

[Substitute No Ally for those No Ally games.....]


And this doesn't stop me (Birds) laying a Lizard minefield in say Fed territory to cause trouble 8)
I guess adding something like that, to every One ally and No ally game description, is turning out to be necessary. Free for all games have been turning into the battle of alliances, and you either face them alone or get sucked into one of the mega alliances, that turn up over and over again.

Players looking to avoid those games with 2 to 3 groups of 3+ races working together, join No ally or One ally games just to avoid it. Kind of sad when One ally turns into 1 ally and 3 working partners. Just don't understand it. If you don't want to play with just one ally or no ally, why even join the game then?

Another thing to discuss, is NAP and how its defined. Personally a NAP is really a Border agreement, you stay on your side, I stay on my side of a defined x,y to x,y and as it moves up down you change it or not. I don't get how a NAP would allow another race to freely move thourgh your territory.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
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Havok
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Post#27 » Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:01 pm

The new CM ally's / naps & trading rules draft is underway and will be posted soon.
Regards,
][avok

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albatross
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Post#28 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:58 pm

While working on the 'one/no ally addon-addon' (gosh.. it needs a name) I encountered problems which should be discussed.

Code: Select all

btf
btt
btm
One cannot stop host.exe from actually transfering stuff if the friendly code is set. The only way to accomplish something here is to change an fcode in auxhost1 into something else when non-allied ships are at the same location. Problem follows, enemy cloakers are no longer able to go 'fishing' for these codes.

Code: Select all

gsX
Lately I encountered a Priv who had set 'gs5' on most planets taken by my ships, maybe in hope that I would make some weird beam up mistake in that direction. New players might possibly get trapped.

Code: Select all

gpX
Similar issue as with gsX


As Krait stated it before, players need to follow the rules by own desire, otherwise something's just wrong. vgap creates with minimum rules exceptional diversity, and with every line of code I have more and more doubts that the benefit will outweigh the loss. Opinions?

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Rimstalker
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Post#29 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:09 pm

my opinion: it's a pity, but we seem to need a set of rules. And those are enforced mercilessly. If there is complaints about cooperation, rsts are checked (I volunteer for that), if anything fishy is found, the planets license is banned for life, possibly even on other host sites.

That's my evil overlord view of things. Practically, I'd settle for a swift killrace. Which of course bungles up the game for the honest players.

I share Alb's sentiment that not all things can be stopped via addons. Things like beaming down minerals on 'enemy' bases and then destroying the undefended base the turn it builds the super useful ship, or even ground assaulting it the turn afterwards can not be stopped. Neither can super refit, or romulans giving out, or even setting, minefield friendly codes.

Well, it can be done, with a 100% anonymous game, where all ingame messages are deleted, and ship names are overwritten by the host. And of course, any gsX and ffx/FFx is disabled, and players' names are blanked.
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#30 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:24 pm

Sadly, AT doesn't support anonymous games.

It is a shame since it was the Sharenet Trolls way back in the
90's that ran the blind headhunter tournament that I really enjoyed.
It surprised me to find out that Autotroll doesn't support blind games.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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