In general what turn do you consider building a second SB?

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akshamu
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In general what turn do you consider building a second SB?

Post by akshamu » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:04 pm

I am curious when in most games the rest of you look at building a second or third starbase?
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Post by Gilgamesh » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:47 pm

Depends on the game but if the planet is decent or can be supported from nearby planets and it's not so close that it will tempt me to divert resources from my homeworld, then...

If I'm the Fed- Humanoid

Pretty much anyone else - Ghipsodals
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wyvern
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Post by wyvern » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:00 pm

When to build a second starbase is a function of your race and game circumstance. Generally, fighter races can not afford early starbases, but the lizard, fascist, fed and pirate need more bases quickly. Fighter races in general are cash poor and must almost fully tech up a base in order to build a useful ship. If building a second base early as a fighter race would deny a build of a heavy carrier either because of cash or minerals, then you are building the base too early. However, as way of example, the lizard can build a hiss ship at very low costs of minerals and cash, which can increase cash flow and therefore increases future builds.

Therefore, I generally build a second base when it will not interfere with continued important builds at my primary base. Race and game circumstances dictate the answer as to what turn. Just having a second or third base does not enhance your position unless it is functional or possibly defensive.

My theory anyway.

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Post by Akalabeth » Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:51 pm

As soon as possible/appropriate

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Post by B A N E » Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:03 pm

Borg are the ideal candidate for a very early 2nd base to double up
early probe building. This can make a big difference on borg power.
It's a ~$900 investment + minerals to double the assimilation rate.

All other should only do it when the 2nd base doesn't undermine the
first.
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akshamu
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Post by akshamu » Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:17 pm

wyvern wrote:When to build a second starbase is a function of your race and game circumstance. Generally, fighter races can not afford early starbases, but the lizard, fascist, fed and pirate need more bases quickly. Fighter races in general are cash poor and must almost fully tech up a base in order to build a useful ship. If building a second base early as a fighter race would deny a build of a heavy carrier either because of cash or minerals, then you are building the base too early. However, as way of example, the lizard can build a hiss ship at very low costs of minerals and cash, which can increase cash flow and therefore increases future builds.

Therefore, I generally build a second base when it will not interfere with continued important builds at my primary base. Race and game circumstances dictate the answer as to what turn. Just having a second or third base does not enhance your position unless it is functional or possibly defensive.

My theory anyway.
Does this assessment change when you consider the free fighters that the Empire gets each turn from its SBs?
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Post by Raven2 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:54 pm

Fed, Lizard, Empire can all benefit from an early buildup of starbases.
Fed can crank out hulls to be refitted later.
Liz can build hissers.
Empire obviously wants free fighters.
Of these, I think the Liz benefits most. Liz needs to be cranking out ships everywhere, every turn. If he can't build an LCC, he needs to build a hisser (I like the Eros for this because they can cool while they hiss). They pay HUGE dividends later.
Both Fed and Liz have to take care, though, not to invest so much in SBs that they end up defenseless. A fleet of empty Fed hulls is a sitting duck to an ambitious neighbor.
Facist and Priv are also good candidates for an early SB buildup. Their ships have low cash/min requirements, and it doesn't take much investment for a SB to start crankiing out useful ships. Facist can always build a low-tech popper if he lacks resources for anything else. Facist needs to build his entire inventory of poppers before the ship limit hits, because he's likely to be building Vickies afterward.
For these races, I would almost always build a second and third SB as soon as I have the money and mins to do so.
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Post by wyvern » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:09 am

Yes the Empire should build new bases as soon as they have the cash and minerals available in order to get their free fighters. However, you must still keep an eye on the mineral balance to not undermine important ship construction.

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Post by wasp » Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:46 pm

Birdmen should build as early as possible to build swift hearts to attack early on.
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Re: In general what turn do you consider building a second SB?

Post by Aleortu » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:14 pm

Like Wasp said, Bird must try to find a Gypsoldal planet asap and make it produce swifts every turn, that needs not tech upgrades, unless you want better beams.

I agree with all of you guys, but for an answer to the question, if I have not a second SB at turn 18-20 I really worry and focus my resources to build two SB asap., no matter the race I am playing.
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My races are Birds and Colonials.

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Don Quijote
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Re: In general what turn do you consider building a second SB?

Post by Don Quijote » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:00 am

Yes, as always it depends on the circumstances.

In mineral rich games (in my experience the most games are mineral rich) I would build a second starbase between turn 4 and 12.

When exactly depends on the planets I find and the race I am playing.

Planets: I roughly build one Starbase in every cluster.
With most races I also wouldn't mind building one Starbase even next to my homeworld (if that planet works well that way).
Ghipsodals and humanoids save you 4.500 MCs. Siliconoids and Amphibians save some cash too.
You need Mol on the planet or closeby and for most races Dur and Tri too.

Races: Most races have cheap ships with a decent function in their overall strategy. In order of much use even if economically restricted to moderate use if economically restricted:
- Lizards = Hissers are cheap, but increase your MC-income by alot.
- Privateer = BR4s with W6 or W7 are cheap and have a lot of use for the Priv (scout, capture freighters, sacrificial lamb) and don't need much fuel for quite a range.
- Klingons = D19-Popper need some Mol, but are essential, if your neighbour is a cloaking race, and generally important for your punch (agressively and defensively).
- Borg = The Starbase costs will delay your first cube (which would be defensively important), but will take on the cheap Probe production and soon W1-Fireclouds.
- Crystals = For defensive and offensive purposes the Crystal needs a vast amount of ships. A second base can build cheap W6 (or better) Opals every turn.
- Romulans = Cheap W6 or better Swifts can scout, spy and maybe attack freighters or planets early on in the game and transport MCs.
- Rebel = Cheap W6 (or better) Falcons have their merrits (fuel-intense HYP-Colonization and Mineral-transportation, RGA, Freighter hunt, attacks on Planets early on, MC-Transportation) and you can use quite a few of them.
- Empire = Cheap Probes have some use (Dark Sense, MC-Transportation, maybe attacks on freighters or planets early on). We always set the free fighters on 50 in the hconfig for the Empire. 5 free fighters are a joke.
- Feds = Because of the super refit advantage the fed can refit any ship hull later. Also on a second base you can build temp ships early on (I wouldn't use a ship slot on my homeworld for temp ships usually). A SB is more costly for the fed mineralwise though, because he only produces 70%.
- Cylon = The Cylons need quite a few cheap Q-tankers for their fighter production. On the other hand the hw might build some qtankers anyhow, in turns in which the ressources are lacking for anything else.
- Colonies = The Colonies need a couple of reasonably cheap W1 Geminis. W9 Patriots are quite cheap and against many races quite effective. Cobols would need at least W9 and M4 to make sense.

So, imo overall you can see, that most races can build cheap ships with a decent function for their overall strategy.

A typical mistake as a beginner imho is to dismiss building new Starbases.
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