Crystaline Art of War

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#166 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:42 pm

The race of the minefield owner enemy is irrelevant.

Long term countermining is generally out of the question especially
versus the Bots. Versus Bots, it is a 4:1 loss ratio...prohibitive.
BUT, it is situationally useful.

Let's say you MUST get from point A to point B now.
You don't have the luxury of waiting till you can amass a fleet of
ships to do it OR you just don't have the beams to do it.

But you're the crystal, you've got emeralds and they're mk7 or mk8s.

So, you need to get to point B now.
If there are minefields in the way, you can either:
Drive thru them and risk hitting them thus thwarting your objective.
OR
Countermine them and get there now.

Thus, it is a situationally useful tactic albeit an expensive one.
There are situations where time is more important than cost.

After a couple times, I would expect a better than average bot to then
counter with multiple overlapped fields and leap frog them so that the
crystal would have greatly limited capabilities in that regard.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
robert
Posts: 411

Post#167 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 5:16 pm

B A N E wrote:The race of the minefield owner enemy is irrelevant.

Long term countermining is generally out of the question especially
versus the Bots. Versus Bots, it is a 4:1 loss ratio...prohibitive.
BUT, it is situationally useful.

Let's say you MUST get from point A to point B now.
You don't have the luxury of waiting till you can amass a fleet of
ships to do it OR you just don't have the beams to do it.

But you're the crystal, you've got emeralds and they're mk7 or mk8s.

So, you need to get to point B now.
If there are minefields in the way, you can either:
Drive thru them and risk hitting them thus thwarting your objective.
OR
Countermine them and get there now.

Thus, it is a situationally useful tactic albeit an expensive one.
There are situations where time is more important than cost.

After a couple times, I would expect a better than average bot to then
counter with multiple overlapped fields and leap frog them so that the
crystal would have greatly limited capabilities in that regard.
I think my brain can just about understand this

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#168 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:01 pm

Thats the point, getting to point B and securing it with webs, now anybody including the Cylon has to work his way through Webs, Emeralds now Can SWEEP or just lay more webs, or better yet build more MK7's and as the race tries to invade the area, lay a big covering, or counter MF, and charge forward with Ruby's and web behind, cutting off a retreat and usually smacking a rescue fleet. As far as the Expense, money is ALWAYS the key for the Tholian, but better to spend it capturing ships, rather than losing, ships to rebuild them. You do this over an over again, leave point A to get to point B, safely and web it in.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
robert
Posts: 411

Post#169 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:08 am

Enemy#1 wrote:Thats the point, getting to point B and securing it with webs, now anybody including the Cylon has to work his way through Webs, Emeralds now Can SWEEP or just lay more webs, or better yet build more MK7's and as the race tries to invade the area, lay a big covering, or counter MF, and charge forward with Ruby's and web behind, cutting off a retreat and usually smacking a rescue fleet. As far as the Expense, money is ALWAYS the key for the Tholian, but better to spend it capturing ships, rather than losing, ships to rebuild them. You do this over an over again, leave point A to get to point B, safely and web it in.
I guess if the Crystals have plenty of money, then your in trouble

planetmaker
Posts: 88
Contact:

Post#170 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 3:24 am

I guess if the Crystals have plenty of money, then your in trouble
You sure are. I played in a game against a Gorn / Tholian alliance. They were terrific. Though in the end a stalemate, it was within their capability to keep complete tech 10 Borg fleets (18/18, 12/12 or 12/12, 15/15 cubes with supportive Bridges, Ravagers and Constitutions, plist) within double webs for sort-of infinite time. And that means at least 25..30 beams sweeping continuously. And that not only in one place, but in others they were pressed as well. It took me and my allies 30 turns in order to make about 200 LY progress - while the Gorn/Tholian advanced in other places the same amount. Luckily that was into other people's territory, not mine. The universe was nearly completely covered with mines - and additional web mines where the Tholiian/Gorn resided.

But alas, the game would have dragged on for years, I guess, if the Tholian didn't have to finish the game for personal reasons. Great fun, though.

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#171 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 4:34 am

Rare Universes solve that problem!
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

planetmaker
Posts: 88
Contact:

Post#172 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:55 am

B A N E wrote:Rare Universes solve that problem!
Indeed. But that was a normal universe with standard settings and rich HW - but the HW is nearly mined out and of little importance once the ship limit hits. And the same goes for my core territory from about turn 50 onwards except those few mineral dumps you might find that lasted a bit longer.

Lot's of factories, some Bovis and Merlins solve that problem in any universe. I don't think it would have changed a lot. Also my economy mainly, though as Borg especially, relied on supplies and Merlins and some cash planets that I donated to my ally in order to preserve the good natives.

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#173 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:50 am

planetmaker wrote:
B A N E wrote:Rare Universes solve that problem!
Lot's of factories, some Bovis and Merlins solve that problem in any universe. I don't think it would have changed a lot. Also my economy mainly, though as Borg especially, relied on supplies and Merlins and some cash planets that I donated to my ally in order to preserve the good natives.
Bravo!

And that is the solution to any universe mineral issue.
Factories & Merlins.
Bovies while nice cannot be counted on, but factories can.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

planetmaker
Posts: 88
Contact:

Post#174 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:50 am

B A N E wrote:And that is the solution to any universe mineral issue.
Factories & Merlins.
Bovies while nice cannot be counted on, but factories can.
Indeed. But a nice (possibly) 15 million Bovi planet is an asset that's worth quite some investment. I it saves you much travelling around in order to get your resources concentrated in order to get something build.

Also this seems to be the shortcoming of many players who nearly exclusively play the original list. I've seen many players who constantly end up in the top ranks in games featuring the original list but fail miserably to build a decent fleet when it comes to the more mineral intense plist ship lists - and thus it deters them :(.

Economy gets so more important the rarer the universe and the more expensive the ship list. I guess at least half of a win is a sound economy.

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#175 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:00 am

planetmaker wrote:Economy gets so more important the rarer the universe and the more expensive the ship list. I guess at least half of a win is a sound economy.
I would say a little bit more than half.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
Tei
Posts: 602

Post#176 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:03 pm

B A N E wrote:Rare Universes solve that problem!
Big meteors smashing every turn, after a while, make any universe pretty rich...

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#177 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:26 pm

I prefer big meteors turned off.
Just ask Cherek about Wing Commander I.

Big Meteors, hate em almost as much as I hate playing the borg.
But hey, I started hating meteors when they were implemented
and bugged.

Wham Homeworld hit.
Next turn,
Wham Homeworld hit again.
Next turn,
Wham Homeworld hit again.
Nothing left.
That bug got fixed but I've never forgotten and enjoy telling the woe.

It's absurd that an interstellar species has no rogue asteroid defense.
IMO, if a planet exceeds Y def.posts, Big meteors should be stopped.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Tei
Posts: 602

Post#178 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:30 pm

B A N E wrote: It's absurd that an interstellar species has no rogue asteroid defense.
IMO, if a planet exceeds Y def.posts, Big meteors should be stopped.
I was thinking the same thing. If a planet has the resources and technoloby to build a starbase, surely they should be able to divert a meteor.

User avatar
robert
Posts: 411

Post#179 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:20 am

B A N E wrote:I prefer big meteors turned off.
Just ask Cherek about Wing Commander I.

Big Meteors, hate em almost as much as I hate playing the borg.
But hey, I started hating meteors when they were implemented
and bugged.

Wham Homeworld hit.
Next turn,
Wham Homeworld hit again.
Next turn,
Wham Homeworld hit again.
Nothing left.
That bug got fixed but I've never forgotten and enjoy telling the woe.

It's absurd that an interstellar species has no rogue asteroid defense.
IMO, if a planet exceeds Y def.posts, Big meteors should be stopped.
Im playing in a game where I just discovered a nice earning planet, 1400 credits per turn. That will do nicely

Then to quote BANE: "Wham"

Massive meteor hit. Yes ive loads of minerals, but it was early in the game and I needed the money more. It look ages to get the happinness at a level where I could tax again and then it was only 900

User avatar
Mika
Posts: 739
Contact:

Post#180 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:36 am

just about meteors... I hate them too
small meteor showers are ok. If you wish to add minerals to a game these small showers are fair because they are very even. Sometimes it happens that some meteors hit planets that are close together. If these planets had no natives too the race there has a huge advantage. Especially in rare games.

In one of my games a 14mio Bovinoid representative planet (nice, eh?) was hit. I used growth taxing and was at 95 happiness again so several thousand MCs would have followed. BUT of course a meteor hit that planet. Happiness didn't change dramatically and around 3000 out of my 6000 clans survived. But I only had 1.1mio Bovos left.

That sucks!

Two turns later another important money planet was hit. I really have to look more carefully next time. I will probably never join a game with big meteors again.
Oderint dum metuant.
---------------------------------------------
Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube!

Return to “Intel”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron