Care & Feeding of Planets

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B A N E
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Care & Feeding of Planets

Post#1 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:48 pm

http://www.circus-maximus.com/careplan.htm
By Conrad Lesnewski

Have you read it, did you implement some or part into your game?
If yes, why?
If no, why not?

Questions about the guide.
Discuss:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#2 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:58 pm

Yes I have read it, and I believe it is a very good manual well worth remembering when managing planets.

In the game it will of course be nessesary to do it a little different to start with if you want to max your amount of ships before the 500 shiplimit are reached.

Speed are more importent than treating your natives gentle or saving some MC´s for mines.

Getting a few more planets due to speed might well pay off.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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B A N E
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Post#3 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:03 pm

I disagree with Conrad's max money principle. I am not as
worried about max income as opposed to most efficient overall.
I am not gentle with my planets but neither am I abusive.

I don't tax to 40% happy.
I don't safe tax.

I growth tax almost everything except the planets where it is of no
gain. Very low gov non-bovies, hostile worlds.


Biggest thing that all players need to do is learn the "rocks" principle.

100 factories (as climate allows) on every non native.
It pays for itself in 4 turns.
After that, it's profit...either 100 supplies, 100 cash or 33 minerals.

Especially in low mineral games, the value of factories becomes more
important than the minerals by far due to alchemy.

If an empire of 50 planets has 5000 factories, that's equal to:
$5000 or 1667 minerals a turn = 555 Trit, 555 Dur, 555 Moly.
That's one heavy carrier per turn.
Or as 1250 fuel per turn.

Factories building supplies are crucial to supplementing the lack
we find in our planet lotto.

Now think about that...
50 non-native planets can produce a battleship/Carrier per turn.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

Ogie
Posts: 41

Post#4 » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:05 pm

I think I have a similar strategy to Captain Blood as I frequently overtax planets before the shiplimit hits to try to squeeze out as many good ships as possible. Not so often after the ship limit hits unless the natives are maxxed, I need to buy SB fighters in an emergency, I can't ship in the MCs for a worthwhile ship before the SB comes up on the queue, or its a very good native planet with a hostile climate and I feel its worthwhile to spend the fuel to constantly ship colonists in for the MCs I can gain ( I'll often tax all the way down to 31 happiness in this situation ). Generally I growth tax to about 6.5 million natives and safe tax after that as native growth rates slow dramatically at this point. I always max the factories on my planets without regard to the natives. I growth tax Bovi planets till they're maxxed.


Ogie

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#5 » Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:36 pm

yep, same here. i always build max-factories. i favor supps over moneys!

and i sometimes/often see ppl, who tax their own clans from the start. i almost never tax them unless i have LOTS of em - i will never understand those guys taxing a 100 clans nex-developed planet. i pays you nothing and reduces growth drastically. and i only safe-tax planets, if i hit the max income that way.

so, that's it from me so far.
have fun!

hennef

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#6 » Sun Nov 12, 2006 10:39 am

Because this thread is about economy.

How do players develop their planets with regards to mine count?
Do you have a scheme?
Do you use Randmax?
If yes to Randmax, do you use the scheme provided or your own?

I work on a principle of 10-20 turns adjusted by necessity, location and
logistics.

I generally try to strip one or more minerals from a planet if doable
in 10-20 turns.

Say I've got a planet with:
N2500@10%
T300@50%
D75@95%
M6000@5%

At 200 mines, I'd quickly strip the Trit & Dur but would take gamewise, forever to drain the Neut and Moly at a total cost of $1000 for mines.

So, with this planet, I would probably build 30-60 mines. (cost 150-300)
It would drain the Trit and Dura in 10-20 turns and the N&M would trickle.
The investment into mines for mineral production is most likely better
elsewhere.

However, if I'm approaching the shiplimit, and I need the Trit or Dura
NOW, I will spend the full $1000 to get the minerals now so that I have
the particular ship I want ASAP.

Before the limit, generally, it's 10 turn stripping, after I shoot for 20.

Granted, any scheme is adjusted by location and proximity to other planets
nearby.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#7 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 3:30 pm

I do think this is the most overlooked part of the game, economy is only what you make of it. Those with a strong economy will in turn be able to produce large ships in quantity and quality. against another your Economy will crush them!!! Make big ships, load them with weapons and send them to the front! Planets produceing supplies,cash, and minerals, makes for a happy growing empire. To me the hardest part of the game is to optimize each planet as the game flows, being able to keep up with the new planets you capture or colonize. I useally try to end up with 200 clans a rock, not easy to do but a strong economy is well worth it.

I try to get 200 clans a rock! Even the Amphors unless they have Desert/Artic.

Casebolt....

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Julius Atreides
Posts: 402

Post#8 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:34 pm

Ah, the care of planets... gotta love this all too important aspect of the game.

So many different flavors.. often with different flavors with different ones being best depending upon the game start conditions.

I'm really learning this in my more recent games that were lower money one planet starts. Way way different than the 10 planet rich starts I had learned on during my first few games.

Makes one really appreciate the power of the factory in developing economies.

Ogie
Posts: 41

Post#9 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 6:44 pm

I usually just wing it on mines. It all depends on the need at the planet as well as density and amount of minerals there. The majority of my planets end up with either 100 or 200 mines if its a normal universe. But if I need it right now for the queue or defense I'll go higher.

I don't use RandMax anymore but I remember it always use to build a huge number of mines on planets with lots of minerals but low densities.


Ogie

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#10 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:30 pm

50 mines normally are enough - 100+ if needed or uesful.

no natives i drop 100 clans - less makes no sense at all - more gives you no real bonus. they grow fast enough anyway, since they are not taxed ;)

merlins do all the tricks. they are your backbone in every game.

and auto-max the factories.
have fun!

hennef

Ogie
Posts: 41

Post#11 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:57 pm

I think you'd be better off with more than 50 mines on the average planet. Especially pre-ship limit but even later in the game.

*You'll get more big ships built before ship limit. I suspect you'll often run short of DUR in the early game if you follow the strategy of building Transwarp LDSFs early on and you're averaging 50 mines on the planets surrounding your HW.

*You'll get more ships by ship limit because you'll have more SBs by then.

*You'll have more MCs because your LDSFs can spend more time moving colonists as opposed to moving minerals from planet to planet.

*You'll have more materials for building torps or fighters.

*You'll be able to build up planetary and SB defenses quicker against early attacks or counter-attacks.


At least thats my personal experience. A lot depends on the universe setup.


Ogie

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Catman
Posts: 272
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Post#12 » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:47 pm

I'm with Hennef on this one...

Max factories on all planets. In fact, while in colonization times I always build the factories first. Maybe throw in a few mines before max factories as needed. Build 50-100 mines is plenty, unless you need that extra boost.

Merlins are the key! On HW build 200+ mines and get that Merlin built quick enough to sustain you early. Colonize local planets pretty good to produce supps. With luck you are near a Bovinoid planet. If not, then 2-3 MDSF's can keep your Merlin busy.

..my 2 cents


Catman :beer:

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#13 » Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:18 am

Catman wrote:I'm with Hennef on this one...

Max factories on all planets. In fact, while in colonization times I always build the factories first. Maybe throw in a few mines before max factories as needed. Build 50-100 mines is plenty, unless you need that extra boost.

Merlins are the key! On HW build 200+ mines and get that Merlin built quick enough to sustain you early. Colonize local planets pretty good to produce supps. With luck you are near a Bovinoid planet. If not, then 2-3 MDSF's can keep your Merlin busy.

..my 2 cents


Catman :beer:
agreed :D

cheers
have fun!

hennef

Ogie
Posts: 41

Post#14 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:40 pm

When I first starting playing VGAP I used to build less mines than I do now. Then I started getting some strong experienced allies and noticed that they were getting much better fleets than me by ship limit. Not building enough mines wasn't the only reason but it was the biggest I think.

Probably the 2nd biggest reason was that even though I put an emphasis on pushing colonists out they put an even bigger emphasis on it and were producing more MCs as a result. In the early game its a better use of your freighters to move your colonists out than to be moving supplies and minerals around. They will have to pull double duty and do both but the priority needs to always be moving out the colonists.

These two issues are somehwat linked in that if you built more mines your LDSFs can spend more time moving colonists and less moving minerals/supplies in the early game. Plus you'll have more fuel available to push those colonists out to the good planets.

Using 1 LDSF instead of 2-3 MDSFs to keep your Merlin supplied is almost always better.


This is all of course based on my own personal experiences and differing opinions are welcome and appreciated.


Ogie

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#15 » Mon Nov 27, 2006 1:55 pm

I almost never build mdsf for expansion.

mdsf holds 1/6th the cargo at ~1/2 the cost of the LDSF.
mdsf cannot break tows, LDSF can.

There are exceptions, but usually the LDSF is the freight mover of
choice in the default shiplist. Necessity adjusts all rules.

As for the SuperTF, that's a ship built only when I've hit the planet
jackpot and can buy them without loss.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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