Priv vs a cloaking race

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

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Cherek
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Post#16 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:20 pm

Mika wrote:
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:
Enemy#1 wrote:So what do you have against PHOST?
He can't play it. :roll:
well... I could point out the strange towing rules (not hard to understand but just annoying) but I rather rely on that "man shouldn't manipulate the work of the creator" thing ;)

TIMhost is holy! sanctus, sanctus, sanctus [-o< [-o< [-o<

that answer is also the better one when it comes to "avoiding a phost vs timhost" discussion.
*edited*
So, since TimHost is holy, then we shouldn't see you any game other than Vanilla or No Frill games. When you play a game with add-ons or alternate ship list or a scenerio other than what Tim packaged in his game, then you have change the game.
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Post#17 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:23 pm

Mika wrote:that answer is also the better one when it comes to "avoiding a phost vs timhost" discussion.
BTW, I like these PHost vs TimHost discussions.
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Post#18 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:34 pm

Mika wrote:
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:
Enemy#1 wrote:So what do you have against PHOST?
He can't play it. :roll:
well... I could point out the strange towing rules (not hard to understand but just annoying) but I rather rely on that "man shouldn't manipulate the work of the creator" thing ;)

TIMhost is holy! sanctus, sanctus, sanctus [-o< [-o< [-o<

that answer is also the better one when it comes to "avoiding a phost vs timhost" discussion.
I disagree.

At least the PHOST team is doing something. Tim IMOP abandoned the entire VGAP3 community with his Planets 4.0. The real VGA Planets 4.0 he was working on was supposedly trashed by a virus on the computer his was using to create it. He gave up and went on to build the current Planets 4.0 from scratch there. It's not an upgrade, it's really a different game altogether.

PHOST not only fixes things that are wrong in VGA Planets 3.0, it improves on it, and really is the true spiritual successor to VGA Planets 3.0. It's also still in production and supported.

My only gripe with PHOST is having to do everything in text files. It may give you more control, but IMOP leaves to much room for error.

End rant - off soapbox - Cheers :beer: ][avok

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Cherek
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Post#19 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:49 pm

Havok wrote:My only gripe with PHOST is having to do everything in text files. It may give you more control, but IMOP leaves to much room for error.

End rant - off soapbox - Cheers :beer: ][avok
For a Host (Boy, I'm glad I'm not a host ](*,) or should I say "a PHost" \:D/ ), it is a pain in the arse.
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Post#20 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:59 pm

Setup of PHOST is more of a pain. It is still a better host, over all. Timhost has been in need of a fix for sometime, Just the shiplist alone. Now I know some think the shiplist is fine, they have thier entire game strategy based on building junk ships, some of them with key parts, but still junk ships, that they recycle later on, but its just a gimmick no matter what those people say. But the ships where based off VGAP2.x and this gave some races away to fight back vs the CV races. I wasn't around when 2.x or 3.x 1st came out, but looking at the 2 you can see where the CV Races recieved a HUGE advantage over the others and Races like the Klingon's got the Shaft. Tim started us all off with a great game, the fact it is still being played today is testimony to that. I think PHOST and the group that keep it going have done a great service to the game, as well. As well as the the People that have created Plist and other alternative shiplists. The idea of not moving forward with the game in some areas, because its sacred, is like saying we should still be playing with people we can share floppy disks with. BBS play should never of happend, nor should playing on the Internet. Myself I have started creating my own addon for the game, with additional Race features and a new shiplist as well. I need to work on contacting others as some of the features, are from other addon's some kept just the way they are some TURNED way down or even off, but they are the original Writers and I don't want to talk step on toes.
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Julius Atreides
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Post#21 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:05 pm

Well, my comments about privateers robbing cloakers with increased failure was merely a thought that could be included in a specific game, certainly not a general for all games change.

I agree, they live and die by thier robbing, and robbing (and surviving in general) can be challenging enough at times without adding to thier woes.

Again.. I say, my comment was not meant to say the Privateers needed balancing.

I agree Havok, the privateer's most important assets are guile and patience. Hehe, lots of time on hand helps too as you say.

Any changes in the fairly well established settings need to be carefully considered and include counterbalances. I was merely saying that it might be interesting to play in a game where Privateers could rob cloakers.. but it would have to be counterbalanced. I certainly wouldnt want them to have this change in many, much less all games :)

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Post#22 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:17 pm

OH, don't start me on the different ship lists. ](*,)
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Post#23 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:09 pm

Julius Atreides wrote:Well, my comments about privateers robbing cloakers with increased failure was merely a thought that could be included in a specific game, certainly not a general for all games change.

I agree, they live and die by thier robbing, and robbing (and surviving in general) can be challenging enough at times without adding to thier woes.

Again.. I say, my comment was not meant to say the Privateers needed balancing.

I agree Havok, the privateer's most important assets are guile and patience. Hehe, lots of time on hand helps too as you say.

Any changes in the fairly well established settings need to be carefully considered and include counterbalances. I was merely saying that it might be interesting to play in a game where Privateers could rob cloakers.. but it would have to be counterbalanced. I certainly wouldnt want them to have this change in many, much less all games :)
I understood your comment. No worries :)

I did run 1 game shortly after I started the site where I allowed the Birds to get robbed. The bird player noticed it on turn 50 something and cried bloody murder... He really had no room to talk though, he was already in close to last place. I blame his issues on his LOFT rather than the option.
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Ogie
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Re: Priv vs a cloaking race

Post#24 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:04 pm

Gavan wrote:So how does the Priv steal ships from a race that cloaks?

Say the Priv have to fight the birdmen, how do they go about stealing a darkwing and such?

If the Bird player is good the only chance you'll ever get to Rob a DW is when its left damaged from destroying a SB. He'll repair minehits in space by ferrying supplies. You might be able to intercept a Bird ship damaged by a minehit and destroy it though.

You might be able to damage a weakly armed DW with a Bloodfang to where you could decloak it and steal it. I'd have to run the sims. It doesn't work on well armed DWs if I remember right.

If you can get help from another player ( by trading or stealing ) a lot of possibilities open up though.


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Mika
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Re: Priv vs a cloaking race

Post#25 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:25 pm

Ogie wrote:You might be able to damage a weakly armed DW with a Bloodfang to where you could decloak it and steal it. I'd have to run the sims. It doesn't work on well armed DWs if I remember right.
Well... not really
first you will fight almost all the time from the right side... a good bird will use intercept for the last approach from deep space (to avoid getting robbed). With that even a poor mk4 darkwing kills the bloodfang and still has only 15% damage (average). If you are unlucky that might not work at all. With mk7 torps (what I consider as minimum for darkwings) you won't get any damage at all... from the bad side of the VCR you have 1% average so better pray that some torps miss your carrier. With mk8 torps your bloodfang only sees the light at the end of the tunnel.

and second intercepting wouldn't work if the ship stays in deep space... you can be sure that there is a second cloaked darkwing with a lower battle order when you arrive with your robber.

btw... just made a funny sim
when you attack a priv base and you use a mk8 darkwing without beams you still have a 30% chance to win... if you do the Priv can not rob you with that ship later. And if you lose the second DW won't get any damage at all. good to know...
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Post#26 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:23 pm

I'm thinking of DWs with XRAYS & Gammas which you'll see a few of especially playing the Priv against them. I don't ever see Mk 4 DWs from experienced Bird players. You can get very good odds of the Bloodfang getting captured and the Dark Wing getting damaged but not destroyed if you set the fighters about halfway full I think. Its a trick that'll only work once as the Bird player will stop leaving PE=Birds all the time on DWs configured like this.
and second intercepting wouldn't work if the ship stays in deep space... you can be sure that there is a second cloaked darkwing with a lower battle order when you arrive with your robber.
I didn't say intercept to Rob but cloaked intercept to destroy which will determine which ship you fight first. A well armed MBR will usually destroy a Resolute with 1 minehit and 2 MBRs always will. You often end up losing both though as there's a 2nd ship there. Not the best tradeoff in the world but your options were never good in the first place. Just hope that 2nd ship isn't a DW with Xrays & Gammas. A Bloodfang will almost always destroy a Dark Wing with 1 minehit which is a very good tradeoff.

I have the misfortune of playing Priv vs Birds in a no ally game right now so I've been running a lot of these sims lately.

Ogie

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Post#27 » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:36 pm

Ogie wrote:I'm thinking of DWs with XRAYS & Gammas which you'll see a few of especially playing the Priv against them. I don't ever see Mk 4 DWs from experienced Bird players. You can get very good odds of the Bloodfang getting captured and the Dark Wing getting damaged but not destroyed if you set the fighters about halfway full I think. Its a trick that'll only work once as the Bird player will stop leaving PE=Birds all the time on DWs configured like this.
and second intercepting wouldn't work if the ship stays in deep space... you can be sure that there is a second cloaked darkwing with a lower battle order when you arrive with your robber.
I didn't say intercept to Rob but cloaked intercept to destroy which will determine which ship you fight first. A well armed MBR will usually destroy a Resolute with 1 minehit and 2 MBRs always will. You often end up losing both though as there's a 2nd ship there. Not the best tradeoff in the world but your options were never good in the first place. Just hope that 2nd ship isn't a DW with Xrays & Gammas. A Bloodfang will almost always destroy a Dark Wing with 1 minehit which is a very good tradeoff.

I have the misfortune of playing Priv vs Birds in a no ally game right now so I've been running a lot of these sims lately.

Ogie
Actually you can't be sure of that second Darkwing. Depends on the player :) Think about it :alcohol:
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Gavan
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Post#28 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:49 am

So the short answer is I am not going to do well.

I can either try to kill off ships using mine fields. (something I am already doing)

or hope the Bird player is not so smart and I might pick the odd ship off if he misses a turn or two.
Just cause I am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me.

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Post#29 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:27 am

Gavan wrote:So the short answer is I am not going to do well.

I can either try to kill off ships using mine fields. (something I am already doing)

or hope the Bird player is not so smart and I might pick the odd ship off if he misses a turn or two.
It's the same answer an Empire or Borg player receives when asking how to fight the Privs.

I guess for every hammer there's an anvil. :)

VilleK
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Post#30 » Fri Dec 15, 2006 6:41 am

Gavan wrote:So the short answer is I am not going to do well.

I can either try to kill off ships using mine fields. (something I am already doing)

or hope the Bird player is not so smart and I might pick the odd ship off if he misses a turn or two.
Mine a lot. Rob bigger ships from other races. And mine a lot. Mine a bit more.

That way Primary Enemy (also known as cloaked attack) will be quite futile if there's a heavy carrier sitting on top of your starbases/important positions.

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