Blind score and Victory conditions

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Shardin5
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Blind score and Victory conditions

Post#1 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:26 pm

So what is everybody's thoughts of using a blind score for games, and what do you think should be used for Victory conditions? As sometimes the Player with the High score isn't, winning the game.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
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B A N E
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Post#2 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:44 pm

I prefer blind score games.

Blind works well with the following games:
A: Turn limited.
B: Homeworld or Flagship.
C: Explicit objective games like: Tons sunk, planet count.

While a lot more work for a Host, completely blind games are great.
No idea who's in the game, no idea who's which race.
Very cool.
But such a game generally requires a lot of work on the Host's part
and usually more than one such game running concurrently with an
enforced limit of only being in one concurrent round of blinds.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#3 » Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:05 pm

B A N E wrote:I prefer blind score games.

Blind works well with the following games:
A: Turn limited.
B: Homeworld or Flagship.
C: Explicit objective games like: Tons sunk, planet count.

While a lot more work for a Host, completely blind games are great.
No idea who's in the game, no idea who's which race.
Very cool.
But such a game generally requires a lot of work on the Host's part
and usually more than one such game running concurrently with an
enforced limit of only being in one concurrent round of blinds.
I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
Regards,
][avok

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B A N E
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Post#4 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:39 am

Havok wrote: I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
After the 1st of the year, we could discuss running such a format.

A couple things worth adding:
Either: OneAlly or NoAlly

I don't know the name(s) of the utility(ies), but in the Sharenet
Blind Tourney, the Trolls had a couple nifty tools:

Private Message deletion
Ship Name removal

Perhaps contact RedTroll to see what he used?

IMO two concurrent blinds would be a minimum and the more the better
for the players...not necessarily the host.

By far the most enjoyable games I played of VGAP were the SBT.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#5 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:45 am

B A N E wrote:
Havok wrote: I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
After the 1st of the year, we could discuss running such a format.

A couple things worth adding:
Either: OneAlly or NoAlly

I don't know the name(s) of the utility(ies), but in the Sharenet
Blind Tourney, the Trolls had a couple nifty tools:

Private Message deletion
Ship Name removal

Perhaps contact RedTroll to see what he used?

IMO two concurrent blinds would be a minimum and the more the better
for the players...not necessarily the host.

By far the most enjoyable games I played of VGAP were the SBT.
I've heard of those tools.

Can't contact Red Troll. Last time I did his domain was gone and I got bounce backs.

We'll figure it out though. :)
Regards,
][avok

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Catman
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Post#6 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:50 am

I personally have never cared about the scores anyway. You can probably tell from my games :lol: I just have fun playing and blasting stuff :bang:

Catman

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Death's Head
Posts: 262

Post#7 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:52 am

Havok wrote:
B A N E wrote:
Havok wrote: I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
After the 1st of the year, we could discuss running such a format.

A couple things worth adding:
Either: OneAlly or NoAlly

I don't know the name(s) of the utility(ies), but in the Sharenet
Blind Tourney, the Trolls had a couple nifty tools:

Private Message deletion
Ship Name removal

Perhaps contact RedTroll to see what he used?

IMO two concurrent blinds would be a minimum and the more the better
for the players...not necessarily the host.

By far the most enjoyable games I played of VGAP were the SBT.
I've heard of those tools.

Can't contact Red Troll. Last time I did his domain was gone and I got bounce backs.

We'll figure it out though. :)
You might try Ricki at RCWorld since I know he runs a lot of One Ally games so he must have the utility.

On a side note, it would also be nice if there was a Rank System here on CM as well. Ricki also has what I consider to be a very nice setup for player ranking. Perhaps this would be another post since we seem to be putting a lot of new stuff on Havok's plate. :wink:
Death's Head (Your Worst Nightmare)

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warpedboard
Posts: 555

Post#8 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:00 pm

Havok wrote:
B A N E wrote:
Havok wrote: I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
After the 1st of the year, we could discuss running such a format.

A couple things worth adding:
Either: OneAlly or NoAlly

I don't know the name(s) of the utility(ies), but in the Sharenet
Blind Tourney, the Trolls had a couple nifty tools:

Private Message deletion
Ship Name removal

Perhaps contact RedTroll to see what he used?

IMO two concurrent blinds would be a minimum and the more the better
for the players...not necessarily the host.

By far the most enjoyable games I played of VGAP were the SBT.
I've heard of those tools.

Can't contact Red Troll. Last time I did his domain was gone and I got bounce backs.

We'll figure it out though. :)
I've been in a mostly-blind game before, where no score was given & you didn't know who was what, and it was quite fun... you tend to be a bit more cautious in declaring war since you're just not sure what you might be up against.

As for the tools, if you don't have any luck finding them, or want something more specialized, let me know -- a little utility like that should be pretty quick to whip up.

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Cherek
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Post#9 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:03 pm

Havok wrote:I think running a blind game is a good idea. I haven't tried one before and it sounds very intresting.
I like the idea, even though I can't remember if I've ever played in one, I still like the idea of a blind game or games.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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Havok
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Post#10 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:54 pm

Death's Head wrote:
Havok wrote:
B A N E wrote: After the 1st of the year, we could discuss running such a format.

A couple things worth adding:
Either: OneAlly or NoAlly

I don't know the name(s) of the utility(ies), but in the Sharenet
Blind Tourney, the Trolls had a couple nifty tools:

Private Message deletion
Ship Name removal

Perhaps contact RedTroll to see what he used?

IMO two concurrent blinds would be a minimum and the more the better
for the players...not necessarily the host.

By far the most enjoyable games I played of VGAP were the SBT.
I've heard of those tools.

Can't contact Red Troll. Last time I did his domain was gone and I got bounce backs.

We'll figure it out though. :)
You might try Ricki at RCWorld since I know he runs a lot of One Ally games so he must have the utility.

On a side note, it would also be nice if there was a Rank System here on CM as well. Ricki also has what I consider to be a very nice setup for player ranking. Perhaps this would be another post since we seem to be putting a lot of new stuff on Havok's plate. :wink:
There is a sort of a ranking system and you can see it on the player listing of you look.

Sometime later on, I'll break things down into bracketed pages, but for now it's going to remain the way it is.

And remember, if you get dropped from a game for missing 4 turns in a row, you loose 50 ranking points :wink:
Regards,
][avok

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#11 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:29 pm

Havok wrote: And remember, if you get dropped from a game for missing 4 turns in a row, you loose 50 ranking points :wink:
OUCH!
But that's a good thing.

Back when I had to leave RftS, and had a sub, does a penalty apply?
Is there any bonus for picking up abandoned empires?
(yeah, yeah, I know, Off topic)
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#12 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 2:23 pm

B A N E wrote:
Havok wrote: And remember, if you get dropped from a game for missing 4 turns in a row, you loose 50 ranking points :wink:
OUCH!
But that's a good thing.

Back when I had to leave RftS, and had a sub, does a penalty apply?
Is there any bonus for picking up abandoned empires?
(yeah, yeah, I know, Off topic)
The penalty only applys if the person is dropped for missing the 4 turns in a row with no excuse or replies to my emails. Primarily I do it because that person has held up the other players the whole time. That could boil down to being 2 weeks worth of turns that could have been played early. I do accept reasonable excuses and if a person actually takes the time to quit a game, I don't hold it against them.

No bonus's for picking up abondoned empires... Wish it was an option in AT, but there's to much manually required already with AutoTroll that I feel like I'm the automation. :wink:
Regards,
][avok

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Samuelt86
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Post#13 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:53 pm

The ringworld scenarios played with blindscore. And I know it added a lot of spice to the game. Something I hadn't realized is that I have gotten to where I can tell a lot from just the common scoring information that is given. I generally follow pbp useage and earnings along with timscore and follow the queue. When it is all put together, you have a real good idea what was built and where, the overall size and strength of your enemies. Blind score added a lot of spice to the game that I hadn't realized was gone. Not only do you have those players that become overcautious, there is also the case of the mice that roar. Normally, you can divert an attack by being strong and intimidating your neighbors into good behavior. You now have to watch the borders with smaller players.

Even with blind score, it becomes apparent when one player starts running away with the game. As players are eliminated, you get a feel for the size and scope of the remaining players. There are only 500 ships and planets, if you don't have them, somebody else does. As is all game, you will reach a point where everyone realized who will ultimately win the game. At that point, you can vote to end it. If it is not apparent, then that is the type of game I would like to continue with.

I can see you guys are talking really blind with no in-game message, no ship names and no knowing who is actually playing. That would be interesting too.

Sam

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#14 » Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:42 pm

Using PHOST and Activity instead of PBP's, would do some of that. Can you blank the Timhost info? If you could then you would have to track explosions as you wouldn't have PBP info nor Tim info. THAT would be a scary game. Lots of fun too.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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warpedboard
Posts: 555

Post#15 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:05 am

Enemy#1 wrote:Using PHOST and Activity instead of PBP's, would do some of that. Can you blank the Timhost info? If you could then you would have to track explosions as you wouldn't have PBP info nor Tim info. THAT would be a scary game. Lots of fun too.
Yep, that's pretty much what we did in the one I played in -- no score of any kind, no PBP info, no private messages... made it VERY interesting. Never quite knew if that TRex coming for you was a quick feint or the vanguard of a fleet of 10 more, for instance; also made the Empire's dark sense a bit more powerful by comparison.

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