Blind score and Victory conditions

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the.Ant
Posts: 283

Post#16 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:17 am

I think no score is interesting, because it makes you more carefull in whom to declare war against.
But then why remove private messages?
And what is shipnameremoval? Does that just mean that you can't communicate through shipnames, or that you don't see which ships are coming?

And how is turn-limit then a good victory condition in a blind game? Doesn't that still rely then on scores? I think a problem with turn limits is that if you play 100 turns and take AT-score, probably a fighter-race will win, if you play 150 turns, the game will take very, very long. I yet wan tto see how average ITA games turn out, to comment on them.
I have to say, I never experienced a game played till the end, usually too many people gave up or dropped early.

Either way, I would be willing to join. Next Year.

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Mika
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Post#17 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:16 am

blind scores are nice...

the victory conditions are a different thing. There are always some races that have problems with that... ITA or Ascore make it hard for the privateers for example. tonnage sunk is horrible for crystals and privs... I guess the best thing is planet number if you need hard facts. That is something you can't boost in the last turns (like timscore... when you see that everyone built 30 bases in the last turn).

In general I prefer that the players vote the top three races. The only problem is how to deal with alliances. Just pick the stronger race? both? Hard to say. In reach for the stars the priv was allied with the birds. The Privs were by far more advanced but would have never won that game without the Birds (killing lokis). So how should that be counted?

No idea :)
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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#18 » Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:26 pm

Mika wrote:blind scores are nice...

the victory conditions are a different thing. There are always some races that have problems with that... ITA or Ascore make it hard for the privateers for example. tonnage sunk is horrible for crystals and privs... I guess the best thing is planet number if you need hard facts. That is something you can't boost in the last turns (like timscore... when you see that everyone built 30 bases in the last turn).

In general I prefer that the players vote the top three races. The only problem is how to deal with alliances. Just pick the stronger race? both? Hard to say. In reach for the stars the priv was allied with the birds. The Privs were by far more advanced but would have never won that game without the Birds (killing lokis). So how should that be counted?

No idea :)
I always like the idea for Tonnage scores, for the Tholians and Pirates to get awarded tonnage for captured ships. Have no Idea how to get that accomplished but it would make better sense.
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the.Ant
Posts: 283

Post#19 » Tue Dec 19, 2006 10:16 am

Mika wrote: In general I prefer that the players vote the top three races. The only problem is how to deal with alliances. Just pick the stronger race? both?
I agree, voting is the best victory condition. Might be difficult though with blind scores, if you don't know how 'big' the others are.

Sure, scores aren't accurate either, but you know how to read them. If a Feighter-Race runs away with points in AT-score, I know that it usually looks way more impressive than it is. If a torper is high scored, I get frightened.
Good example for that is the current development of Polestar.
Scorewise, Robot was much stronger than me (bird). Which encourraged him to start a war against me (I guess). Since he must know that I get my scores from DWs and not fighters, it's now time for him to be frightened... :twisted:

I think with the alliances, they should decide internally. Ususally when I am in an alliance, I commit myself to it. I do not care about scores or number of ships I have, as long as I know that I can trust my ally and that it's the best way to reach the common goal. On the other hand, there is usually one in every alliance who does most of the work, if I am not that one, I don't have a problem with scoring second or third.

planetmaker
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Post#20 » Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:43 am

I play in a completely blind game (no scores, no in-game communication, no ship names, no PBP reports, nearly no knowledge of who the competitors are). The victory condition chosen there is n planets for y turns (n=160, y=10). Your get reported your own battlemass every turn, an anonymous comparison every 5 turns, so you'll know your relative strength (but no who's the mighties, etc) and you get a report every turn of the planet number of races that surpass 50% of the required planets in order to win. This way you know whom to beat :) - or better not beat.
160 planets is a lot and it is bound for a long game (running turn 85 and only one race has with nearly 120 planets surpassed the 80 planets reporting limit). But surely it may become shorter, if you apply less demanding amount of planets as winning condition.

But indeed, after some time you'll have figured out the approx. strength of the races. You see explosions, you know your neighbors and see their advance or retreat, you see minefield explosions. And if you're lucky, you saw the ship number before and can even tell what ship blew up.

That game uses PHost with PQboost (battlemass reports), exploremap and checkvic (check for fulfillment of victory condition) as addons.

Concerning scoring, in the long run ptscore (I think ITA is about the same) does a pretty good job, if you count all resources that are used somehow - fighter as if they were build using 3T,2M,5S and consider the MC costs for building torps (each 1mc or 1mineral spend on ships, mines, fighters, torps, tech levels, build orders=1point). In that case there should not be much imbalance wrt fighter vs. torp races.

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Samuelt86
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Post#21 » Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:52 am

I am liking your blind scoring. It seems to rectify all concerns. Ok, I'm ready.

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