pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

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Mika
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pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#1 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:24 pm

It's me again :)

Let's imagine you start in a small cluster of maybe 5 planets at the edge of the map (no sphere). Let's also assume that you are lucky and have one Insectoid/Avian and one Bovinoid planet. Now tell me... is there ANY reason to expand your empire?

With a good money planet you should be able to build one MBR every two turns... in an average game that should allow you to build around 14 MBRs before the shiplimit is hit. If you have 15,000MC you have to spend around 9k for mines/minerals and tech levels (5/10/10/1). If necessary you can even upgrade to better torps.

A MBR with transwarps, heavy phasers (no torps) needs just 1066MC, 27 Trit, 102 Dur and 345 Moly. The Moly is the only reason why you would need such a Bovo planet... you need to make more Moly. Or you are lucky enough to have a reptilian planet with +5k Moly and +90% density.

If your small empire meets THESE criteria your winning strategy could be "stay where you are"!

Nobody will look for you, nobody will ever take notice of you. And around turn 30 - 35 you should have around 15 heavy phaser MBRs if you were lucky enough. That number is important to sweep a max minefield in just one turn.

And now let's see what we can do.
The Feds are deadly for every Priv... the Lizards too. The Birds will eat you when they can find you. The Fascists could be a problem too. But that is always the same, no matter what tactics you use.

But the Borg? Crystals? Empire? Robots? Rebels? Colonies? What should they do? They can't defend vs cloakers. They can only mine. And if you put all efforts into building MBRs to sweep mines and manage to have enough ships to do it and to rob at least the one or other carrier (stripping the fuel around your empire might help too) there is not much they could do. You don't even need a starbase from that moment on.

Only the Empire can find you. But you can spread out, appear from nowhere, sweep, hide, sweep, cloak, tow, rob... all the things a sneaky Priv will do every day. If you are doing well they will never know where you came from (if your starting cluster is not attractive to be explored).

Sure... this strategy is made for a very special situation but somehow I like it.

Any comments about that?

Mika
Oderint dum metuant.
---------------------------------------------
Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube!

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Cardno
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Post#2 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:59 pm

One question would be: Consider other players. Given your scenario, it sounds like you might be able to do quite well, but is it enough to win? Do you have the fleet to really take it to someone who is building a strong empire. Also, what about replacing those MBR's. You aren't going to fight, so you will have no or little BP's. What if u lose a few cloaked non mine sweeping mbrs early in the game. Based on your calculations, that would make maybe only 12 MBR's. Is that enough?

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Cherek
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#3 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:02 pm

Mika wrote:Nobody will look for you, nobody will ever take notice of you. And around turn 30 - 35 you should have around 15 heavy phaser MBRs if you were lucky enough. That number is important to sweep a max minefield in just one turn.
Mika
Uhmmm, how are you going to "... sweep a max minefield in one turn." with 15 MBRs?
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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warpedboard
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Post#4 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:16 pm

An interesting strategy, but I think you'd have a tough go of it against good players. 15 MBRs wouldn't stand a chance against any kind of medium or larger fleet one of the other "fighting" races could have built by then, and as previously mentioned, it'd be hard to replace your losses once ship limit hit. While the minefield sweeping might do the trick, I think more likely after the first time someone saw a fleet of MBRs decloak to sweep, they'd just start mining faster than you could sweep -- and then you'd have trouble getting anywhere, given the MBR's penchanct to blow up on the first minehit.

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Kid Khan
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#5 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:15 am

..and, really, what kind of "win" would that be?

I mean, this is a war game, the fun comes from confrontation, not from sitting in a corner and calculating the next score table before you get your turn, is it?

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Cardno
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#6 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:21 am

Kid Khan wrote:..and, really, what kind of "win" would that be?

I mean, this is a war game, the fun comes from confrontation, not from sitting in a corner and calculating the next score table before you get your turn, is it?
Philisophically I agree with you Kid Khan, but technically, a win is a win. I have never played in the same game as you but having talked to Mike W and seeing some of your scores in the game, it appears you just eat everything up to win.. :lol:

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Kid Khan
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#7 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:49 am

You're right... may be my comment WAS a bit cheesy... there are of course games I'm watching the score table as well.

Take it with a grain of salt what Mike is telling about me. He's become a good friend over the years of playing and his judgement isn't impartial anymore... AND I payed him for spreading legends!

:D

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Cardno
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#8 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:55 am

Kid Khan wrote:You're right... may be my comment WAS a bit cheesy... there are of course games I'm watching the score table as well.

Take it with a grain of salt what Mike is telling about me. He's become a good friend over the years of playing and his judgement isn't impartial anymore... AND I payed him for spreading legends!

:D
hehe Mike is a good guy - i met him and two other americans early in my vga career. they were all allied and i was threatening him with my lizzies and they were all starting to gang up on me but we called a truce and then because none of us were that good, all allied.

You must one day tell me your strategy for best use of the lizzies.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#9 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:02 am

i like the idea of that "tactic". none will care for the priv, so none will be prepared for the priv. you could easily take hold of some big carriers and some planets that way. but what IF someone finds your base. the best thing against a priv is a full scale attack. you would not sustain that. you could capture many ships though. with that kind f play you should have a good ally in your backhand. one who could support your captured ships and supply you with clans and supplies. you constantly need those, i think.
but in general i like your idea. it would be a very surprising thing to suddenly see the priv-score go up like hell - in fact i always suspect that ;)
and of course 16 HP-MBRs are enough to sweep any minefield. but you could be trapped easily, because you just can not risk to hit a mine EVAR.

so, i hope your above-description reflects some real situation and i wish you all the fun! :D

cheers
have fun!

hennef

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Mika
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#10 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:52 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:
Mika wrote:Nobody will look for you, nobody will ever take notice of you. And around turn 30 - 35 you should have around 15 heavy phaser MBRs if you were lucky enough. That number is important to sweep a max minefield in just one turn.
Mika
Uhmmm, how are you going to "... sweep a max minefield in one turn." with 15 MBRs?
one heavy phaser sweeps 400 mines

a max minefield has 22500 mines.

15 ships * 4 beams * 400 = 24000
that's it!

And yes... I know that this way is very vulnerable. If ANY race finds you and really wants to attack you are dead. Once the attack fleet is turning to you you will lose the base and just get one lousy carrier... or maybe two.

The whole thing was meant to be prepared secretly and once you spread out it will be a big surprise for everyone else to see a so well prepared Privateer.

Kid:
I don't think that this is a poor way to win. If you are playing a race that can not fight (ok, sure they can fight but they will probably lose the one or other battle) you have to think about different ways.

All I wanted to do is to hide until my time has come.
But since it depends on so many things to work perfectly I will hardly be in the situation to test it :)

was just a strange idea
would be worth trying if you have a small starting cluster and realize (after only a few turns) that you have the xtals and bots as neighbours. Then you better do not leave that cluster until you are really well prepared.

Mika
Oderint dum metuant.
---------------------------------------------
Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube!

planetmaker
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Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#11 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:23 am

one heavy phaser sweeps 400 mines

a max minefield has 22500 mines.

15 ships * 4 beams * 400 = 24000
that's it!
These calculations always assume that your ships are in the centre of the mine field. If you are just outside, maybe one or two get to sweep and then the field will have shrunk sufficiently so that the other 12 MBR cannot sweep anymore.

I'm not sure how you work, but I tend to sweep from the minefield's edge instead of flying half way through the mines...

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Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#12 » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:58 pm

You are making entirely too many assumptions on presumed battle conditions.

Any equation that assumes no one will ally is a flawed equation.
Does this look infected to you?

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Re: pravteer winning strategy - NO expansion

Post#13 » Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:27 am

planetmaker wrote:
one heavy phaser sweeps 400 mines

a max minefield has 22500 mines.

15 ships * 4 beams * 400 = 24000
that's it!
These calculations always assume that your ships are in the centre of the mine field. If you are just outside, maybe one or two get to sweep and then the field will have shrunk sufficiently so that the other 12 MBR cannot sweep anymore.

I'm not sure how you work, but I tend to sweep from the minefield's edge instead of flying half way through the mines...
i guess, in that scenario the sweeping is most important to get out of a specific are - not in :P
in that case you would be closer t the center. but i agree. the sweeping-capacity f 15 mbrs should not be held up to high. also i always try to equip dis or hds to get greater capture-rates with beams.....
have fun!

hennef

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