PHOST Q&A Forum
I don't mind that they pump my gas, its the waiting around for somebody to do it, the airport area has some really SLOW service.Sysop wrote:Hey, at least they still pump your gas for ya thereShardinEnemy#1ofTheIRJTN wrote:I wasn't stumped, just now read the updated post and Ed beat me to it.
Stuck in NJ working.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

 Posts: 59
 Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:32 pm
no, seems the doc for phost is very detailed.
But: I have two questions:
1. If i have low resourses on base and ship limit reach. I tow the ship to clone, with fc=cln, base mission to "unload freighters",fc=PB1 on base , and minerals is situated on the ship to clone enough, so clone will possible at the second building phase(not first). i have the 1st building position and a ship to recycle. no penalty to change build order.
So , the question is: will ship cloned or not?
2. The formula to chance to aviod minehit is:
Percentage =
100 * (((100  Mine_hit_odds)/100) ^ Distance)
But the phost count it different way, so if ship travel 1 LY exacty it will get minehit newer.
how to count Distance of mine way?
example: if the ship fly from the (995,1004) to the (1005,1004).
The centre of minefield of 35 mines is at (1000,1000).
What the distance will the ship travel through minefield?
is it trimmed down?
But: I have two questions:
1. If i have low resourses on base and ship limit reach. I tow the ship to clone, with fc=cln, base mission to "unload freighters",fc=PB1 on base , and minerals is situated on the ship to clone enough, so clone will possible at the second building phase(not first). i have the 1st building position and a ship to recycle. no penalty to change build order.
So , the question is: will ship cloned or not?
2. The formula to chance to aviod minehit is:
Percentage =
100 * (((100  Mine_hit_odds)/100) ^ Distance)
But the phost count it different way, so if ship travel 1 LY exacty it will get minehit newer.
how to count Distance of mine way?
example: if the ship fly from the (995,1004) to the (1005,1004).
The centre of minefield of 35 mines is at (1000,1000).
What the distance will the ship travel through minefield?
is it trimmed down?
Last edited by Silvestr Potash on Sun Feb 20, 2011 2:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
Maybe yes, maybe not.Silvestr Potash wrote:no, seems the doc for phost is very detailed.
But: I have two questions:
1. If i have low resourses on base and ship limit reach. I tow the ship to clone, with fc=cln, base mission to "unload freighters",fc=PB1 on base , and minerals is situated on the ship to clone enough, so clone will possible at the second building phase(not first). i have the 1st building position and a ship to recycle. no penalty to change build order.
So , the question is: will ship cloned or not?
PB1 will make this base the first in the queue in #32, ShipBuildOrders. If there is a free ship slot in #33, ShipBuilding_1 (maybe because a ship has blown up in a mine), the build order will be tried and fail. If there is no free ship slot in ShipBuilding_1, but in ShipBuilding_2, the ship will be cloned.
This distance can be computed exactly, by computing the intersection of a line and a circle. In this particular case, it's pretty easy. The ship is starting and ending outside the minefield. It passes the minefield center at a distance of 4 ly. Therefore, the distance inside the field is, using Pythagoras' theorem, 2*sqrt(35  4²) = 8.7 ly (35 is squareofminefieldradius, which conveniently happens to be the same as the minefield unit count). Those are standard geometry formulas which are not listed in the documentation.2. The formula to chance to aviod minehit is:
Percentage =
100 * (((100  Mine_hit_odds)/100) ^ Distance)
But the phost count it different way, so if ship travel 1 LY exacty it will get minehit newer.
how to count Distance of mine way?
example: if the ship fly from the (995,1004) to the (1005,1004).
The centre of minefield of 35 mines is at (1000,1000).
What the distance will the ship travel through minefield?
PHost uses a special case that if the result of this computation is 1.0 or less, no mine hit will happen. This is to avoid floatingpoint effects and guaranteeing some sort of progress in the computation. But otherwise, there is no "nonstandard" computation.
Stefan

 Posts: 59
 Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:32 pm
Thanks for good answer... and:
1.so, if there is no ship slot free , (shiplimit), when the ship building position check? Can i remove the one cloned ship and bring the other ship to clone without penalty for "change build order"?if the cloned and removed ship has same weapon ,hull, ets.?
2. thanks. but: say web minefield is 3 mine unt, centre of (2000,2000). the ship fly from (1980,2001) to (2020,2001).
So the total distance inside web is 0.73+0.73 =1.46 LY. but the last possible travel point after minehit is (2001,2001) ,outside of minefield.
Is it true it newer hit a webmine? Or it newer finish move inside the webminefield (after the webminehit)?
1.so, if there is no ship slot free , (shiplimit), when the ship building position check? Can i remove the one cloned ship and bring the other ship to clone without penalty for "change build order"?if the cloned and removed ship has same weapon ,hull, ets.?
2. thanks. but: say web minefield is 3 mine unt, centre of (2000,2000). the ship fly from (1980,2001) to (2020,2001).
So the total distance inside web is 0.73+0.73 =1.46 LY. but the last possible travel point after minehit is (2001,2001) ,outside of minefield.
Is it true it newer hit a webmine? Or it newer finish move inside the webminefield (after the webminehit)?
In PHost 3, yes. In PHost 4, no.Silvestr Potash wrote:1.so, if there is no ship slot free , (shiplimit), when the ship building position check? Can i remove the one cloned ship and bring the other ship to clone without penalty for "change build order"?if the cloned and removed ship has same weapon ,hull, ets.?
PHost 3 only stores "I'm cloning a NINTENDO CLASS GAME CUBE with 6 Lazorz and 6 Boom Throwers". PHost 4 also stores the Id of the ship to be cloned, to support enforcing the "CloneOnce" property.
1.46 ly means the ship can hit a mine. Movement is computed in exact (floating point) numbers. Positions are rounded once, at the very end. It is indeed possible that a mine hit is reported outside the minefield because of this.2. thanks. but: say web minefield is 3 mine unt, centre of (2000,2000). the ship fly from (1980,2001) to (2020,2001).
So the total distance inside web is 0.73+0.73 =1.46 LY. but the last possible travel point after minehit is (2001,2001) ,outside of minefield.
Is it true it newer hit a webmine? Or it newer finish move inside the webminefield (after the webminehit)?
Stefan
Last time I heard this complaint it turned out that the game was using a pconfig.src file with 0 torps per tube, and torps get added only by experience. PCC2 currently does not simulate planet experience, but I added that to the next version which I will upload soon (not this weekend, which I spend at the Kirchentag  really interesting even for nonchurchgoers).Tei wrote:When simulating Phost battles I use PCC II Play VCR which has merged with Winplan. All is well except for a game that has planets using torpedoes. The PlayVCR doesn't simulate the torps.
Is this a feature of the program not yet developed or a bug?
Stefan
Phost alternate towing
I have a question about Phost alternate towing.
Is there anything existing that can be used to calculate if alternate towing will succeed? I'm wondering if Echoview simulates this or if another utility does? or do I have to crank up the ol' spreadsheed....
When calculating "tow resistance" is the mass of the ship the total mass including cargo and fuel or the mass when empty?
Is there anything existing that can be used to calculate if alternate towing will succeed? I'm wondering if Echoview simulates this or if another utility does? or do I have to crank up the ol' spreadsheed....
When calculating "tow resistance" is the mass of the ship the total mass including cargo and fuel or the mass when empty?
Re: Phost alternate towing
None that I know of.Tei wrote:Is there anything existing that can be used to calculate if alternate towing will succeed? I'm wondering if Echoview simulates this or if another utility does? or do I have to crank up the ol' spreadsheed....
As a quick estimate, assume both ships have enough fuel and a far waypoint; this makes the Movement_contribution term identical for both, so you can ignore it. The comparison boils down to a comparison of engine types, count and speed. Again, assume top engines and top speed, so you're down to a simple "more engines win".
You are referring to the "movement contribution". This term uses gross ship masses, including cargo and fuel. It solves the problem "how far would this ship get before running out of fuel". And, of course, the ship's cargo affects how far it gets.When calculating "tow resistance" is the mass of the ship the total mass including cargo and fuel or the mass when empty?
Stefan
Edit: markup fix
Last edited by streu on Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Stefan,
In the docs, it states: "Tow resistance is computed using the same formula, but using only the towee's mass in computing the fuel/distance limit."
Does the towee mass substitue for the distance factor?:
"Movement_distance = Min(Waypoint_distance,
Max_dist,
Max_allowed_by_fuel)"
If that is the case, does it matter if the towee is stationairy or moving?
Thanks
In the docs, it states: "Tow resistance is computed using the same formula, but using only the towee's mass in computing the fuel/distance limit."
Does the towee mass substitue for the distance factor?:
"Movement_distance = Min(Waypoint_distance,
Max_dist,
Max_allowed_by_fuel)"
If that is the case, does it matter if the towee is stationairy or moving?
Thanks
That sentence is not ideal. It means that "Max_allowed_by_fuel" is computed for the tower using tower's + towee's mass (because that's what affects the tower's fuel consumption), and using only towee's mass for the towee (beause that's what affects its fuel consumption when it moves alone).Tei wrote:In the docs, it states: "Tow resistance is computed using the same formula, but using only the towee's mass in computing the fuel/distance limit."
Does the towee mass substitue for the distance factor?:
"Movement_distance = Min(Waypoint_distance,
Max_dist,
Max_allowed_by_fuel)"
If that is the case, does it matter if the towee is stationairy or moving
It does matter whether it is stationary or moving, because when its stationary either by having warp0 or a zero waypoint, the Movement_distance ends up as zero.
Stefan