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Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:08 pm
by Cherek
Very good Ed, for answering correctly, I will put a star by your name. Whoever gets three stars first, I'll let them be the class leader. :lol:

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:00 pm
by Shardin5
Sysop wrote:
ShardinEnemy#1ofTheIRJTN wrote:I wasn't stumped, just now read the updated post and Ed beat me to it.
Stuck in NJ working.


Hey, at least they still pump your gas for ya there :)


I don't mind that they pump my gas, its the waiting around for somebody to do it, the airport area has some really SLOW service. :evil:

Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:57 pm
by Cherek
Look like quite a few people are reading the "PHost Tips" forum. :D

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:19 am
by Silvestr Potash
no, seems the doc for phost is very detailed.
But: I have two questions:

1. If i have low resourses on base and ship limit reach. I tow the ship to clone, with fc=cln, base mission to "unload freighters",fc=PB1 on base , and minerals is situated on the ship to clone enough, so clone will possible at the second building phase(not first). i have the 1st building position and a ship to recycle. no penalty to change build order.

So , the question is: will ship cloned or not?


2. The formula to chance to aviod minehit is:
Percentage =
100 * (((100 - Mine_hit_odds)/100) ^ Distance)
But the phost count it different way, so if ship travel 1 LY exacty it will get minehit newer.

how to count Distance of mine way?
example: if the ship fly from the (995,1004) to the (1005,1004).
The centre of minefield of 35 mines is at (1000,1000).
What the distance will the ship travel through minefield?
is it trimmed down?

Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:59 pm
by Tei
Good questions. For the mine hit one I would copunt 5 ly traveled.

Its important to read the PConfig.scr. One game I'm playing in has:

MineTravelSafeWarp = 2

Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 8:23 am
by streu
Silvestr Potash wrote:no, seems the doc for phost is very detailed.
But: I have two questions:

1. If i have low resourses on base and ship limit reach. I tow the ship to clone, with fc=cln, base mission to "unload freighters",fc=PB1 on base , and minerals is situated on the ship to clone enough, so clone will possible at the second building phase(not first). i have the 1st building position and a ship to recycle. no penalty to change build order.

So , the question is: will ship cloned or not?
Maybe yes, maybe not.

PB1 will make this base the first in the queue in #32, ShipBuildOrders. If there is a free ship slot in #33, ShipBuilding_1 (maybe because a ship has blown up in a mine), the build order will be tried and fail. If there is no free ship slot in ShipBuilding_1, but in ShipBuilding_2, the ship will be cloned.
2. The formula to chance to aviod minehit is:
Percentage =
100 * (((100 - Mine_hit_odds)/100) ^ Distance)
But the phost count it different way, so if ship travel 1 LY exacty it will get minehit newer.

how to count Distance of mine way?
example: if the ship fly from the (995,1004) to the (1005,1004).
The centre of minefield of 35 mines is at (1000,1000).
What the distance will the ship travel through minefield?
This distance can be computed exactly, by computing the intersection of a line and a circle. In this particular case, it's pretty easy. The ship is starting and ending outside the minefield. It passes the minefield center at a distance of 4 ly. Therefore, the distance inside the field is, using Pythagoras' theorem, 2*sqrt(35 - 4²) = 8.7 ly (35 is square-of-minefield-radius, which conveniently happens to be the same as the minefield unit count). Those are standard geometry formulas which are not listed in the documentation.

PHost uses a special case that if the result of this computation is 1.0 or less, no mine hit will happen. This is to avoid floating-point effects and guaranteeing some sort of progress in the computation. But otherwise, there is no "non-standard" computation.


--Stefan

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:18 am
by Silvestr Potash
Thanks for good answer... and:
1.so, if there is no ship slot free , (shiplimit), when the ship building position check? Can i remove the one cloned ship and bring the other ship to clone without penalty for "change build order"?if the cloned and removed ship has same weapon ,hull, ets.?

2. thanks. but: say web minefield is 3 mine unt, centre of (2000,2000). the ship fly from (1980,2001) to (2020,2001).
So the total distance inside web is 0.73+0.73 =1.46 LY. but the last possible travel point after minehit is (2001,2001) ,outside of minefield.
Is it true it newer hit a webmine? Or it newer finish move inside the webminefield (after the webminehit)?

Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:32 am
by streu
Silvestr Potash wrote:1.so, if there is no ship slot free , (shiplimit), when the ship building position check? Can i remove the one cloned ship and bring the other ship to clone without penalty for "change build order"?if the cloned and removed ship has same weapon ,hull, ets.?
In PHost 3, yes. In PHost 4, no.

PHost 3 only stores "I'm cloning a NINTENDO CLASS GAME CUBE with 6 Lazorz and 6 Boom Throwers". PHost 4 also stores the Id of the ship to be cloned, to support enforcing the "CloneOnce" property.
2. thanks. but: say web minefield is 3 mine unt, centre of (2000,2000). the ship fly from (1980,2001) to (2020,2001).
So the total distance inside web is 0.73+0.73 =1.46 LY. but the last possible travel point after minehit is (2001,2001) ,outside of minefield.
Is it true it newer hit a webmine? Or it newer finish move inside the webminefield (after the webminehit)?
1.46 ly means the ship can hit a mine. Movement is computed in exact (floating point) numbers. Positions are rounded once, at the very end. It is indeed possible that a mine hit is reported outside the minefield because of this.


--Stefan

Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:30 pm
by Tei
When simulating Phost battles I use PCC II Play VCR which has merged with Winplan. All is well except for a game that has planets using torpedoes. The PlayVCR doesn't simulate the torps.

Is this a feature of the program not yet developed or a bug?

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 3:47 am
by streu
Tei wrote:When simulating Phost battles I use PCC II Play VCR which has merged with Winplan. All is well except for a game that has planets using torpedoes. The PlayVCR doesn't simulate the torps.

Is this a feature of the program not yet developed or a bug?
Last time I heard this complaint it turned out that the game was using a pconfig.src file with 0 torps per tube, and torps get added only by experience. PCC2 currently does not simulate planet experience, but I added that to the next version which I will upload soon (not this weekend, which I spend at the Kirchentag :-) - really interesting even for non-churchgoers).


--Stefan

Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 4:15 pm
by Tei
You are right, the PC Config has:
PlanetsHaveTubes = Yes
PlanetaryTorpsPerTube = 0

Kirchentag in Dresden looks interestiing.

Phost alternate towing

Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2011 10:45 pm
by Tei
I have a question about Phost alternate towing.

Is there anything existing that can be used to calculate if alternate towing will succeed? I'm wondering if Echoview simulates this or if another utility does? or do I have to crank up the ol' spreadsheed....

When calculating "tow resistance" is the mass of the ship the total mass including cargo and fuel or the mass when empty?

Re: Phost alternate towing

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:08 am
by streu
Tei wrote:Is there anything existing that can be used to calculate if alternate towing will succeed? I'm wondering if Echoview simulates this or if another utility does? or do I have to crank up the ol' spreadsheed....
None that I know of.

As a quick estimate, assume both ships have enough fuel and a far waypoint; this makes the Movement_contribution term identical for both, so you can ignore it. The comparison boils down to a comparison of engine types, count and speed. Again, assume top engines and top speed, so you're down to a simple "more engines win".
When calculating "tow resistance" is the mass of the ship the total mass including cargo and fuel or the mass when empty?
You are referring to the "movement contribution". This term uses gross ship masses, including cargo and fuel. It solves the problem "how far would this ship get before running out of fuel". And, of course, the ship's cargo affects how far it gets.


--Stefan

Edit: markup fix

Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:49 pm
by Tei
Hi Stefan,

In the docs, it states: "Tow resistance is computed using the same formula, but using only the towee's mass in computing the fuel/distance limit."

Does the towee mass substitue for the distance factor?:
"Movement_distance = Min(Waypoint_distance,
Max_dist,
Max_allowed_by_fuel)"

If that is the case, does it matter if the towee is stationairy or moving?

Thanks :)

Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:41 am
by streu
Tei wrote:In the docs, it states: "Tow resistance is computed using the same formula, but using only the towee's mass in computing the fuel/distance limit."

Does the towee mass substitue for the distance factor?:
"Movement_distance = Min(Waypoint_distance,
Max_dist,
Max_allowed_by_fuel)"

If that is the case, does it matter if the towee is stationairy or moving
That sentence is not ideal. It means that "Max_allowed_by_fuel" is computed for the tower using tower's + towee's mass (because that's what affects the tower's fuel consumption), and using only towee's mass for the towee (beause that's what affects its fuel consumption when it moves alone).

It does matter whether it is stationary or moving, because when its stationary either by having warp-0 or a zero waypoint, the Movement_distance ends up as zero.


--Stefan