Queue Stuffing / Slot Hording

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B A N E
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Queue Stuffing / Slot Hording

Post#1 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 5:53 pm

viewtopic.php?p=30917#30917
Mika wrote: a basic question (seriously)

is sdsf queue playing forbidden?
not always nice but imo the torper races are almost forced to play it (sometimes). Most torpers have a economy advantage and that means more bases --> pbps.
Whether or not QS via whatever hull is forbidden is a host's decision.

Historically, QS relies on the other players NOT doing it.
QS relies on other players fighting while the QS player sits and waits.
It is effectively using a mechanical limitation of the game to screw the
other active players. That is the reason the Phost authors created an
alternate systems that reward active players and penalizes inactives.

No race needs to build a stack of sdsfs as a means of denying
another player building ships nor as a PBP battery.

IF all the players in the game QS the shiplimit gets hit around T20
and more than half the ships are junk sdsfs.

To make a point, the group I gamed with during the 90s as a group
did not employ this tactic and we always hit the limit by turn 20-25
and none of us built junk.

The solution is one of economics.
Maximize the economy and there is no need for QS.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#2 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:14 pm

i am very unsure about this QS-problem.

i do not think there is one.

if i play a certain race, i almost automatically QS the first 20-30 rounds.

whenever they can build nothing better, the rebel, empire and cyborg will build a super-cheap probe. the lizard will automatically build zounds of hissers, most likely eros'. the feds will build terras as well, whenever they lack resources for a proper ship. even the robots can build cheap stuff with use: Qs and iron slaves. the pirates could build some extended fuel tanks...

so the colonies, the birds, the fascists and the crystalls do not have that option - all their shps have to be more expensive to be of any use. but if the others can benefit from building very cheap useful ships, why should the rest not be allowed to build some sdsf to at least gain some pbp?

and if anyone is building 100 sdsf with 10 cheap bases over ten turns and no one is taking advantage of that.... well, then there is something wrong with the other players as well :P
have fun!

hennef

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lord vinny
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Post#3 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:38 pm

yea...so far i havnt been in a game where this was obivously abused(though i have seen leading races hit the 100 ship mark really fast)...i do build a sm freighters if i cant build anything else that trn...i mean why not? :P ...but i try to stock my sb's so i can build that capital ship trn after trn...
im currently playing the colonies in one game...and they do have the fuel carrier and patriots that are cheap and useful...and with soo much fuel i even use sm freighters to colonize and run minerals with...but i didnt build only them..i did my best to build good ships when i could...

but like yall said, each race is different...and some races can build useful crap...and those that cant need to even it out somehow...
and if u think someone is abusing it...just send your fleet to wipe out his 50-100 sm freighters... :twisted:
yuck!...Who's got the cat breath?

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Gilgamesh
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Post#4 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 9:52 pm

If I've just blown the budget pushing out an expensive ship and I can't build anything useful, I'll build a cheap SDSF for the PBP when I recycle it. Why wouldn't you? I see nothing underhanded in this.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Havok
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Post#5 » Mon Sep 10, 2007 10:14 pm

I do when I see a player with 139 freighters.

I plan on addressing this further later. Stuck at work now.
Regards,
][avok

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#6 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:09 am

Havok wrote:I do when I see a player with 139 freighters.

I plan on addressing this further later. Stuck at work now.
Not 139 ordinary freighters. Freighters with beams and terraforming capability heat/cold and a cargo of 600 and 1200, capable of carrying 400 and 600 fuel. Immunity to being destroyed due to low crew. Under Gorn command - worth a fortune. Cost to build 1 PBP.

Build before the 500 ship limit was reached.

Also there where absolutely nothing more usefull to build due to the special shiplist and lack of MC. So why build a more expensive hull with less use for more minerals MC.

I will wait and hear what Havok have to say on the subject once he returns home.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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Six_Of_One
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Post#7 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:40 am

Having read both threads i see no problem here. To me its no different to a player who sits back, wont fight, and wins a game with a set number of turns by building the most starbases.

And if the freighters have beams or can terraform even less of a problem. I expect certain races to do this, just to survive by denying the more powerful carrier races of slots.

And (as the Borg... my usual race) if i have bases low on tech or $ or minerals, you can bet your life they are building a probe, or at best the lowest tech firecloud with no torps.......... just to fill the build queue.

Its totally unreasonable to expect, say the gorn, to only build t-rexes or madonzillas when their enemy is building cubes/virgos/rushes etc.

Lets face it, an expert fed player will do the same with useless missouris and novas, that they can refit later..... its still Q stuffing but from a different angle.
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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Gilgamesh
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Post#8 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:50 am

Havok wrote:I do when I see a player with 139 freighters.

I plan on addressing this further later. Stuck at work now.
If I see a neighbour has 139 freighters I will be more than happy to relieve him of a few of them with some properly equipped Coldpains. :twisted:
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#9 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:22 am

Gilgamesh wrote:
Havok wrote:I do when I see a player with 139 freighters.

I plan on addressing this further later. Stuck at work now.
If I see a neighbour has 139 freighters I will be more than happy to relieve him of a few of them with some properly equipped Coldpains. :twisted:
In Arena, those freighters had beams, (removed in update).
(Blunder on the part of the designers, the yokels!)
So, the other races had no score proof that they were freighters.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Gilgamesh
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Post#10 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:23 pm

So how did....

Never mind.... :?

In a "normal" game I still don't see a problem with it.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#11 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 2:42 pm

B A N E wrote: In Arena, those freighters had beams, (removed in update).
(Blunder on the part of the designers, the yokels!) ...
Hey, HEY!! I resemble that remark :P
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Burnerboy
Posts: 412

Post#12 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:28 pm

Two Klingon pics in a row..Geez.. :roll:

RB

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Gilgamesh
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Post#13 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:54 pm

Kinda makes you glad to be alive, doesn't it? 8)
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Burnerboy
Posts: 412

Post#14 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:02 pm

Makes me be glad to play VGAP.. I get to shoot at Klingons! :D Most people don't get that chance! :P

Ron

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Gilgamesh
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Post#15 » Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:57 pm

But you have to remember - Klingons like to shoot back..... :twisted:
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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