Queue Stuffing / Slot Hording

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Havok
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Post#46 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:41 pm

B A N E wrote:
Vertigo wrote:Sorry for the intrusion into this game, as I am not playing in it

Q STUFFING IS PART OF THE GAME

If you don't know how to do it, or combat it, yha don't know how to play the game
I would counter such a conclusion with:
"If you rely on Queue Stuffing, you don't know how to play the game."

I know how to do it.
I know how to combat it.
I see no need to do it and recognize it as an indicator of inferior play.
You took the words right out of my finger tips BANE. :D
Regards,
][avok

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Vertigo
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Post#47 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 6:52 pm

Every race has its special abilities & some are designed to Q stuff

The Feds MUST Q stuff to Super Refit later

The Lizards should own 40% of the ships by ship limit not to mention the majority of Star Bases

The Klingons can rule the PBP world by stuffing with Glories

Stuffing the Q with freighters is only useful after the ship limit.
SDSF's can be recycled for PBP's & if it is built without PBP's why would you not do it?
Does this look infected to you?

Douglas Jew
Posts: 88

Post#48 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:40 pm

I began to study the score history leading up to the point of lockout.

At the point that the 500 ship limit was hit, the 'borg had 20 capital ships, 28 freighters and five bases. That means that the 'borg had only about 10% of the ships in the game. They have since added an additional 68 capital ships and 14 more freighters over nearly thirty turns. Since the number of freighters actually increased, it would mean that they are not being recycled. So the 'borg player is right. He did not use this tactic. With over 120 planets by turn 23, it is not unreasonable for him to be able to take advantage of a lockout situation, but he did not create it.

He is right and I am wrong.

Douglas Jew
Posts: 88

Post#49 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:43 pm

Vertigo wrote:Every race has its special abilities & some are designed to Q stuff

The Feds MUST Q stuff to Super Refit later

The Lizards should own 40% of the ships by ship limit not to mention the majority of Star Bases

The Klingons can rule the PBP world by stuffing with Glories

Stuffing the Q with freighters is only useful after the ship limit.
SDSF's can be recycled for PBP's & if it is built without PBP's why would you not do it?
The three races you have named are not carrier races. I think you are right because this is the only way these guys can stand a chance against the carrier races in one-on-one fights.

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Cardno
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Post#50 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:46 pm

lord vinny wrote:ive been hit by bad storms before too...ships blown off planet and damaged or destroyed...ive also had ships blown off course ahead of the storm...i tried to just skirt a storm to re-fuel a ship but it got pushed out ahead of the storm...

but im always happy to see an enemys ship get pummeled by a bad storm.. :twisted:
Ion Storms move before ships under Host Movement. Consequently, an ion storm travelling at 36ly, if less than 36ly away from your ship, will 'impact' on it, before your ship moves, so your ship will be affected by the Ion storm. I'ts not actually being pushed in front of the ion storm - according to Host Order, your ship is in the ion storm.

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Vertigo
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Post#51 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:48 pm

I think I am missing the point of this dicussion.

If a Starbase is built
at least an SDSF is set to build
Why Build a Starbase if your not going to at least build a SDSF to recycle for PBP when you need them?

Am I missing something here?

of coarse we are talking about SB's behind the line
SB's on the front have many more uses
Does this look infected to you?

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hennef
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Post#52 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 7:58 pm

Vertigo wrote:I think I am missing the point of this dicussion.

If a Starbase is built
at least an SDSF is set to build
Why Build a Starbase if your not going to at least build a SDSF to recycle for PBP when you need them?

Am I missing something here?

of coarse we are talking about SB's behind the line
SB's on the front have many more uses
exactly my idea of a starbase as well.

it has to build something to be of any use. otherwise the minerals and money are better spent otherwise.
have fun!

hennef

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Vertigo
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Post#53 » Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:01 pm

Eh, I think I am my own worst enemy
Just reviewed my last 2 games & ended with ~ 15% of the ships
I guess my high KT sunk game styles allows me to stuff the Q without ever getting called on it. Stuffing the Q just adds PBP management, it does not rule it.
I can see where this tactic would suck if a non-ktsunk junkie would play it.

But doubt it would give a non kt sunk junkie an edge
Does this look infected to you?

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Vertigo
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Post#54 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:10 pm

B A N E wrote: I would counter such a conclusion with:
"If you rely on Queue Stuffing, you don't know how to play the game."

I know how to do it.
I know how to combat it.
I see no need to do it and recognize it as an indicator of inferior play.
I've thought about your statement for an entire day
& have come to the conclusion that your statement is not logical

As I've stated, certain races must stuff the Q
So every other race needs to apply this tactic to combat it
The only time it becomes an issue is when there are multiple players in the game that don't stuff the Q giving those that apply it an advantage

hmmm, do really know how to do it?
[-X
Does this look infected to you?

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B A N E
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Post#55 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:21 pm

It's only illogical if you don't know what I am talking about.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Vertigo
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Post#56 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:35 pm

B A N E wrote:It's only illogical if you don't know what I am talking about.
Please explain
Does this look infected to you?

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B A N E
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Post#57 » Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:20 pm

Are two medium freighters better than one Large?
Are two Reptiles better than one LCC?

Is an economy better served by having many tech1 sdsfs than it is
by having 1 LDSF?

Is an economy better served by having two bases, one pushing out
quality warships while the other pushes out Large freighters and other
support ships than it is by having a bunch of bases that are a struggle
to supply and instead building stuff that cannot move?

Is it better to have X# of bases building junk instead of one or two
building top of the line?

It costs a fortune to tech up bases.
It is too time consuming to shuttle native teched base hardware.
So?
Build only the bases you can supply with minerals and cash to build
the quality fleet of ships you need to both attack and defend.

If you have 3 bases but can only supply 1?
You have 2 too many bases and not enough freight capacity.

If player X builds two bases and gets the second one up by say turn 10.
Then he builds from both for 10-20 turns top of the line ships, what does
he have at the ship limit at T20 or T25 or T30?

At T20, He'll have 20+ heavies.
If the limit lasts till T30, he'll have 40+ heavies.
(race advantages adjust numbers)

What's going to happen to the opponent he targets if the opponent
built a bunch of undersupplied bases?

How to combat queue stuffing?
By building better than the stuffer and demolishing them.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Mika
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Post#58 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:23 am

Sounds good... theoretically

Sure, one LDSF is by far more useful than 10 SDSFs with warp1 engines but that is not the point. Every good player will try to have as many good bases as possible. I mean bases that can build at least ANY useful ship with tech 10 drives. Freighters or bigger warships... doesn't matter. And of course it is better to have just two Novas/Rex/Darkwings/Vickies/Biocides/Diamonds/Gorbies/Golems/Rushs/Virgos instead of five or six medium ships (something around 4-8 beams and 4-6 bays or launchers).

That means while you have just two or three bases producing only good ships every turn you can still have many other bases producing any other ship every turn. That way the number of good ships of your race is more or less relative to the number of good ships of any other race. In the better case you have more ships and that just means you have a good reserve of PBPs.

Especially for weaker races this is a must but it is useful for all races. First you build a junk ship and that means your enemy can not build a descent battlecruiser. And then you play the queue. If you know how to do it you can build more ships than the usual way. And if you are in a really good position no other race can build a ship again (or only a few). You can always recycle a small freighter to get more than 20 PBPs and build whatever you want where you need it. That can decide the battle!

Sure, I won't put all my efforts in building bases to have as many ships as possible if the result is that one big ship can destroy my whole empire. I build as many GOOD bases as possible. But sometimes you get the chance to get a more or less free base (through selling supplies for example) elsewhere and then I will also build that one. You can still upgrade it when the shiplimit is reached and you can use it for repair tasks anytime. Cloaking races will also be scared if there is a base. A little LCC will take out every planet without base (no borg worlds of course) but the Lizard player will think twice if there is a base. He can never know if that base is a good one or not (if there are 10 SDSFs in orbit he should know it). And when you sell some more supplies you get 10 or 20 fighters more that might be enough to kill medium warships.

I mentioned it before - races with weaker ships often have tactical advantages (Lizards 150% damage, Bird cloaked intercept, pop, webmines) but sometimes it comes to brutal force. And then your only way to survive is having more PBPs than your enemy AND more bases building any ship.

Against big carriers the Lizard will have to sacrifice two Trex to win with the third one (or Mado). Sometimes or against certain races you are lucky enough to lose only one rex followed by a mado that can win. But if you lose two trex you just gave 10 pbps to your enemy. If you killed a virgo or rush you only got 7 pbps in return. Not good, eh? The queue is the key. If you have enough bases producing junk ships before the queue reaches the next base with a birgo/rush you should have three or four junk ships again. Then you have an equal number of pbps or even more.

And again... it is no goal to use junkships only. A Rebel can recycle a cheap sdsf and get a heavy phaser falcon in return. Pretty funny if you jump 10 falcons into a webminefield and then start to sweep for one turn and jump back home again. Sure... fuel intensive but the Crystal can do NOTHING. I just want to say that every junk producing base can become even more valuable later in the game.

Well, that's it. If two equal players are at war both will have an more or less equal number of bases producing the really good ships. And both will have some other bases that can produce no good ships. In that case the player who builds the junk ships will have the better cards to win. But a weak player will NEVER defeat a veteran player because he builds junk ships.

And hey... having a lousy cloaker at a base with 10 sdsfs is pretty funny. Just one kt fuel to every ship, mission cloak and pe "junkshipbuilder" and you get a very happy turn ;)
Oderint dum metuant.
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Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube!

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hennef
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Post#59 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:39 am

i totally agree to everything Mika just said - well put! =D>
have fun!

hennef

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Cherek
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Post#60 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:49 am

When it comes to queue stuffing, it’s all a matter of one opinion verses another. I have the same mind set as BANE on it. The Feds are the only except building of building hulls with low engines, beams and torpedoes (I did not include hulls on purpose) since they can upgrade everything except for the hull.

I wouldn’t mind attacking a starbase that had several low tech ships at it. But that is one of the bad things about playing mostly non-cloaking races, they can see me coming and recycle the ships before I get there.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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