Queue Stuffing / Slot Hording

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B A N E
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Post#61 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:00 am

As has been said,
"You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink."

For those that cling to queue stuffing, you should try playing a game(s)
from the beginning where you purposefully avoid building junk ships.

No sdsfs, mdsfs, small trans, junk ships of any sort.

Stick to just the TWarp LDSF and the quality purpose driven ships of
your chosen race.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Cherek
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Post#62 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:34 am

Do you think it might make them a better player? I doubt it would help them.
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The line above is false.

Cherek

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B A N E
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Post#63 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:46 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:Do you think it might make them a better player? I doubt it would help them.
For some, yes, for others, no.

Sometimes the light just goes on after trying a different method.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#64 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:20 am

I think there are 2 seperate discussions going here.

1. Q stuffing to prevent other races from building ships

2. Q stuffing to maximize PBP management after the 500 ship limit

On topic 1, I agree completely with Bane, though I don't care for the arogance in his post about some not learning. Just because there are other styles that you do not agree with does not make them wrong. They are perfectly legal, effective & have there place in a strategy. Lizard crap ships can Hiss. Klingon crap ships are not crap, they can blow up where & when you want them to. SDSF's are not the only ship used to stuff a Q.

On topic 2, I agree completely with Mika

I have never built a sdsf that did not get recycled for a PBP the next turn. In fact, I only do this after the 500 ship limit. That does not make it wrong to do it before the 500 ship limit, I just don't find it effective.

Well, maybe never is too strong. Yha can't fix & recycle in the same turn at the same SB. So within a couple turns would be more precise.
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hennef
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Post#65 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:41 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:When it comes to queue stuffing, it’s all a matter of one opinion verses another. I have the same mind set as BANE on it. The Feds are the only except building of building hulls with low engines, beams and torpedoes (I did not include hulls on purpose) since they can upgrade everything except for the hull.
really?

what is with the lizards hissers? mostly cheap eros' i assume...

what is with the empires probes to spy around? no engines needed.

what is with the borg's probes? q7-drives at max.

what is with the rebel's falcons? cheap and useful, even with s1 and x-rays.

what is with the robot's iron slave and Q? CAN have engines, but need them to build your fighters? no sir.

and why would i build a lady royal with engines anyway?
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote: I wouldn’t mind attacking a starbase that had several low tech ships at it. But that is one of the bad things about playing mostly non-cloaking races, they can see me coming and recycle the ships before I get there.
you need to be faster - can only recycle one ship per turn ;)
have fun!

hennef

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B A N E
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Post#66 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:48 pm

A great deal of assumption, Vertigo, on what I am saying.
Arrogance not really, experience and lots of it.
Afterall, you're the one that jumped in with "don't know how to play".
I just rebutted it. If you don't like the taste of a reply in kind
perhaps you should reconsider making such declarations.

I didn't say a tactic was wrong or illegal, I said it is inferior.
IF tactic A is better than tactic B, then B is inferior to A.
If player X uses B, then his play is inferior.
If I see player X using B, then I see that as an indicator of inferior play.
I have yet to see that opinion proven wrong in game.

Crap: tech1 engine ships that serve no purpose other than slot hording.
Crap: building a lesser ship when a more effective one is similar in
cost or slightly more expensive.

Queue chasing via sdsf?
I do that, and I recycle quickly.
That would be completely unnecessary if Tim had made host post a
message each turn of where the build queue is located. It could
have been written where no info is given involving other players.

PHost has a number of interesting solutions to the deficiency of Host's
PBP system. But I still prefer Host.

PBP bank before the limit?
On occasion I'll build an sdsf and immediately colonize it before the limit.
That isn't slot hording. The same slot that I took is reopened.

PBP bank upto and after the limit?
10's of tech1 sdsfs sitting doing nothing but hording slots?
That's sloppy/inferior play.

Even with low grade engines, the following multifunction ships aren't crap.
They serve practical/useful functions.
Bohemian (for fed, warming)
Eros (for fed cooling, for liz cooling and hiss).
Swift for romulan, dirt cheap, long legged multifunction spy.
D19 and Saber aren't crap...it's a necessity for Klingons to equalize.
BR4 for Pirate is the cheap sacrificial lamb.
B200 is a borg staple.
Opal for Crystal.
PL21 is an EE staple.
QTanker or Iron Slave is a staple for Borg/Bots.
Falcon is a rebel staple.
CofM Patriot is about their only dirt cheap good buy.

There are times when some of the junk ships may be the difference
between winning and losing a specific battle due to the specific situation.
ie:
I'm raceX, I've got a base about to be attacked and I can build and
refuel shipX and the existence of shipX is the difference between my
saving the base or not, then that ship served a situational purpose.

Necessity dictates.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Cherek
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Post#67 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:50 pm

Point taken. But all of those provide a benefit to to their race. What benefits to the race does a bunch of low tech sdsf or med freighters provide?

It is easier for a cloaker to find a base with a bunch of low tech ships undetected than a non-cloaking ship. Except I did read a post somewhere where a Probe did put a hurt on some one somewhere.
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The line above is false.

Cherek

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Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#68 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:15 pm

Vertigo wrote:Sorry for the intrusion into this game, as I am not playing in it

Q STUFFING IS PART OF THE GAME

If you don't know how to do it, or combat it, yha don't know how to play the game
Lets put the quote in the context as it was posted Bane

Apparantly you Q stuff when you feel it is appropriate

It appears we are in agreement on how to use it

& it would appear that we both agree
"If you don't know how to do it, or combat it, yha don't know how to play the game"
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Cherek
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Post#69 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:43 pm

This is another one of those dead-end discussions, it's not against the rules, some people do it and some don't. Discussing it for 15 or 20 pages won't change anyone mind.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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Vertigo
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Post#70 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:12 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:This is another one of those dead-end discussions, it's not against the rules, some people do it and some don't. Discussing it for 15 or 20 pages won't change anyone mind.
Yup, especially when everyone is saying the same thing
& then with the next breath states everyone else is wrong

I think we can end this thread with the statement

"If you don't know how to do it, or combat it, yha don't know how to play the game"
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Mika
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Post#71 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 2:14 pm

B A N E wrote:Even with low grade engines, the following multifunction ships aren't crap.
They serve practical/useful functions.
Bohemian (for fed, warming)
Eros (for fed cooling, for liz cooling and hiss).
Swift for romulan, dirt cheap, long legged multifunction spy.
D19 and Saber aren't crap...it's a necessity for Klingons to equalize.
BR4 for Pirate is the cheap sacrificial lamb.
B200 is a borg staple.
Opal for Crystal.
PL21 is an EE staple.
QTanker or Iron Slave is a staple for Borg/Bots.
Falcon is a rebel staple.
CofM Patriot is about their only dirt cheap good buy.
Very good point. And whenever I have the chance I build such a ship instead of a "junk" ship. The Klingons are a good example... what do you do when you don't have the hull tech or the moly to build a d19b (not to mention that you don't have tech 10 drives on that base). Do you really build nothing?

THEN (and only then) I build a sdsf. As soon as I can afford it I build something like the types mentioned above or at least a cheap fuel carrier with tech 6 or 7 drives to be at least a bit useful. Sometimes even with tech 1 drives when I can tow it with another ship.

But sometimes there are really situations (many!) when you can't build any better ship. And then the little freighter comes to my mind. And AFTER the shiplimit is hit and you can not build a useful warship (even an opal is useful sometimes) and you have enough fuel carriers or freighters... well... then the sdsf is the better choice again.

But in most/all other aspects our opinion is not so different as it seemed.
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B A N E
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Post#72 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:07 pm

Mika wrote:Do you really build nothing?
Yes and no.

Often, my economy is running on multiple turn construction plans.
With enough freight capacity, the starbases are supplied so that I
don't have to make a choice between junk and nothing.

That's why I keep saying if you've got bases that are building junk,
you've got too many bases. Build more freighters (LDSFs) to supply
them. Then as you have more supply than bases, build bases.

A fair rule of thumb is one LDSF full of minerals inbound per turn
per base.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#73 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:48 pm

B A N E wrote:
Mika wrote:Do you really build nothing?
Yes and no.

Often, my economy is running on multiple turn construction plans.
With enough freight capacity, the starbases are supplied so that I
don't have to make a choice between junk and nothing.

That's why I keep saying if you've got bases that are building junk,
you've got too many bases. Build more freighters (LDSFs) to supply
them. Then as you have more supply than bases, build bases.

A fair rule of thumb is one LDSF full of minerals inbound per turn
per base.
sigh

Sorry I wasted 2 days on a potential logical discussion with you Bane
I'll know better moving forward
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B A N E
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Post#74 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:42 pm

Vertigo wrote: sigh

Sorry I wasted 2 days on a potential logical discussion with you Bane
I'll know better moving forward
And what pray tell is not logical about my above post?
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#75 » Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:00 pm

negative my narrow minded friend
not the last post, the entire discussion
I'm done with this

Vertigo Out
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