PList

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

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Tei
Posts: 602

Post#16 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:45 pm

Because the top ships are so much stronger in PList than Tim list, I think that the planets with out torps are very week facing the super ships.

Maelstom's planets with torps did get too strong. The Carrillion should have been able to beat the planet with 60 or so defenses.

Seems like the tech level of the torps on the planet was higher with more torps produced than what would have been really fair.

On the other hand, one has to adjust one's strategy according to the situation. It means that one has to sacrifice a lessor ship to damage the planet, and use up some torps, so the second ship can take it. This would have an effect of creating some more ship build slots which is allways good.

planetmaker
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Post#17 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:30 am

Tei wrote:Because the top ships are so much stronger in PList than Tim list, I think that the planets with out torps are very week facing the super ships.

Maelstom's planets with torps did get too strong. The Carrillion should have been able to beat the planet with 60 or so defenses.

Seems like the tech level of the torps on the planet was higher with more torps produced than what would have been really fair.

On the other hand, one has to adjust one's strategy according to the situation. It means that one has to sacrifice a lessor ship to damage the planet, and use up some torps, so the second ship can take it. This would have an effect of creating some more ship build slots which is allways good.
I don't know Maelstrom's config, but one may, of course, modify the PlanetaryTorpsPerTube setting, e.g. the free torps a planet gets. You may want to set it to one or even none. This would allow for one shot torps (or even none) on non base planets and a player had to buy additional ones on bases.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#18 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:24 am

Planetmaker,

Let me see if I understand you correctly,
If we set the planets to have 0 torps per tube but
turn planets have torps to yes, then we'd get what I envision
only bases would have torps if they were purchased?

IIRC, the maelstrom config was 5 per tube, way too much.
I'll go find the relevant maelstrom config.
maelstrom pconfig wrote: ### Torpedoes
# TorpFiringRange = 30000
# TorpHitOdds = 65
# TorpHitBonus = 0
# TubeRechargeRate = 45
# TubeRechargeBonus = 0
# PlanetsHaveTubes = Yes
# PlanetaryTorpsPerTube = 5
Yep, I remembered correctly.
And if I am reading the pconfig correctly, then yes, if:
# PlanetsHaveTubes = Yes
# PlanetaryTorpsPerTube = 0

Then effectively only bases could have torps, no need to make a
suggestion to the phost team for something that already exists!
Build a base, buy torps.
:woot:

Would the torps purchased have to be the same tech as the torps
the defpost level determines or would it be whichever is higher be
it: torps on base, tubetech level or defpost level?
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

planetmaker
Posts: 88
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Post#19 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:55 am

Hi Bane,
B A N E wrote:Let me see if I understand you correctly,
If we set the planets to have 0 torps per tube but
turn planets have torps to yes, then we'd get what I envision
only bases would have torps if they were purchased?
That's my understanding of the config options, too I haven't tested it myself with this exact config, though. I know on the other hand, that PlanetaryTorpsPerTube = 5 gives any planet five free torps, regardless wether a base may have additional purchased ones available and that bases have access to stored torps during a combat.
B A N E wrote: IIRC, the maelstrom config was 5 per tube, way too much.
I tend to agree. When I played around with these configs, it tended to make the planets WAY stronger so it became really difficult to chew through a bunch of planets.
And if I am reading the pconfig correctly, then yes, if:
# PlanetsHaveTubes = Yes
# PlanetaryTorpsPerTube = 0

Then effectively only bases could have torps, no need to make a
suggestion to the phost team for something that already exists!
Build a base, buy torps.
What's not possible currently is to allow all planets regardless of the presence of a base ONLY a certain amount of torps as a base always gets additional torps, if it has some in storage.
Would the torps purchased have to be the same tech as the torps
the defpost level determines or would it be whichever is higher be
it: torps on base, tubetech level or defpost level?
I think not really, but it makes the calculation way easier (quote from the docs):

Code: Select all

Torp_count =
   Tube_count * PlanetaryTorpsPerTube
   ...plus Trunc(Base_torp_cost / Torp_money_cost(Torp_type))
      if base present
   ...at most 255

   Base_torp_cost =
      Torp_money_cost(1) * Torps_in_storage(1)
      + Torp_money_cost(2) * Torps_in_storage(2)
      ...
      + Torp_money_cost(10) * Torps_in_storage(10)
Basically the sum of the cost of all stored torps is taken and divided by the unit cost of the used torps. The result is the amount of additional torps the base can use.

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Tei
Posts: 602

Post#20 » Sat May 31, 2008 12:38 pm

I want to post some other observations gathered from my Plist / Phost games.

Klingon glory device requires fuel.

Towing success requires knowledge of which Phost towing plan is in effect: Regular (similar to thost) and alternate.

Alternate towing http://phost.de/phost4doc/config.html#T ... sCooperate
is actually very interesting because it takes into consideration more factors. Its not just the tech level of the engines that are important, its also the number of engines. This means that the bottom line cloaker with two engines is really only useful for minor enemy towing harrassment and scouting (and mine laying). One really needs to build the more expensive multiple engine cloakers to offer success with offensive towing duties.

Plist Borg Heart of Gold HYP probe - like the B200 has a pretty high mass, 110 kt. One came snooping around early in one of my games and two ships I sent after it hoping to capture it were destroyed. It had top of line engines which give it a shield bonus plus top of line beams. I figure that a planet needs 65 defense posts to protect it against one.

Fully stocked Borg bases and homewords even with out torps are impossible to destroy with a top of line capital ship by its self. One nesds a ship to knock out some fighters first and have a back up capital ship just to be sure. If one waits till the next turn to hit it, seems like the damage the previous turn has little effect if the base has fixed base defenses and fighters.

Plist offers a nice variety of ships that have different functions to take advantage of the alt towing and starbase busting. There are very few or no ships with no real function unlike Tim's list which has half the ships one never wants to build.

I'm noticing that some games are becoming stagnant after the ship limit. Seems like ship builds requre carefully managed priority points. This results in players unwilling to take risks and make experiments unless they are assured of success. Ships don't get recycled because of the minimum priority points that this generates. This has an effect to minimize building of junk ships just to maybe recycle later. Races like Privateers have a lot of trouble getting replacement ships made because they don't get many points on their own untill capturing some capital ships.

There is probably a good way to configure Phost to prevent this stagnation. One way would be to increase the ship limit. It would be cool if an addon could be created to increase the ship limit in increments after a set point is reached. This would allow some continuing replacement of ships and discourage building of fortresses of bases that would be impossible to kill with out massive losses.

:lam:

:bruce:

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Cherek
Posts: 5695
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Post#21 » Sat May 31, 2008 2:50 pm

Tei wrote:There is probably a good way to configure Phost to prevent this stagnation. One way would be to increase the ship limit. It would be cool if an addon could be created to increase the ship limit in increments after a set point is reached. This would allow some continuing replacement of ships and discourage building of fortresses of bases that would be impossible to kill with out massive losses.

:lam:

:bruce:
Check out the PAL (Player Activeity Level) vs PBP (Priority Bonus Points)scoring system for PHost.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

planetmaker
Posts: 88
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Post#22 » Wed Jun 04, 2008 2:08 am

Hi Tei,

nice summary and observations. You might want to make a playing-guide from that some time :)
Tei wrote:Fully stocked Borg bases and homewords even with out torps are impossible to destroy with a top of line capital ship by its self. One nesds a ship to knock out some fighters first and have a back up capital ship just to be sure. If one waits till the next turn to hit it, seems like the damage the previous turn has little effect if the base has fixed base defenses and fighters.
I cannot agree here fully. It depends, but most top battleships can take on a fully equipped homeworld. Agreed, though, the torper races are at a slight disadvantage here. But Exti, Erasor, probably Nova, B11 and even moderately trained D'D, maybe also Godzilla and Silicon Avatar will eat through fully stocked bases. All top-notch fighter carrier do nicely - experience helps a lot, though as I learnt when playing Romulans.
I'm noticing that some games are becoming stagnant after the ship limit. Seems like ship builds requre carefully managed priority points. This results in players unwilling to take risks and make experiments unless they are assured of success.
That depends, IMO, on the players. I've play(ed) both. I've seen games with a ship queue which stays at approx a length of 100, others where 200 is not the limit (which is bad IMO).
There is probably a good way to configure Phost to prevent this stagnation. One way would be to increase the ship limit. It would be cool if an addon could be created to increase the ship limit in increments after a set point is reached. This would allow some continuing replacement of ships and discourage building of fortresses of bases that would be impossible to kill with out massive losses.
I think I've read of this add-on, but I don't recall it's name and where I read it :(.
Also you could increase the PBP costs required for a build.

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