The race thing again...

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

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Siberian Snake
Posts: 96

Post#31 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:20 am

In the old days, when a lot of VGAP games were played, I gathered some stats to see which races perform the best. The games included were Tim host, basically default settings. As it turned out, 9 races have the total results too close to make a statistically significant differences. There are two exceptions. Lizards did much better then the rest. Birds were the worst. The reasons for Lizards domination are obvious. Birds main problem is - they suck in defence and have no economical advantages. Very little can they do if the fleet of Carriers attack their mainland. It might be a good idea to give Birds 2-3 free fighters per SB to balance it out.
However, the difference in the races strength isn't very big, the players skill is much more important factor.

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Gilgamesh
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Post#32 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:07 pm

I'm curious, Snake. How did the Klingons do in your stats?
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#33 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:35 pm

If you go T-Rex, Mod, Mod, it becomes a crap shoot on a wide band.
theres a 10% chance of winning the battle (Gorbie/Biocide) with the frist Modzilla! and a 10% chance of causeing NO damage as well. There is a GOOD chance (50%) that the Biocide/Gorbie kills all 3!!! thats to much of a crap shoot for me. You wanta primarly use Modzillas as the Backbone of your fleet good luck. With T-Rex, Modzilla, Modzilla your fleet jsut went Primary build Modzilla, I would say 15%-25% Modzilla for fleet purposes but not a Primary Build.

Borg>Shoot for 100 planets by turn 20. If you have 100 planets by turn twenty thats alot to manage. Most others will be at the 20-30 planet range. Thus you should be manageing 100 planets wich is 200% more than other players by turn 20. Turn 30 you should be around 200-250 planets "thats playing the Borg." Personally I LOVE/HATE to play Borg because by turn 30 the TRNs are a MONSTER to manage!!
ANY serious Borg player needs to set a goal to hit 100 planets by turn 20, that is BORG time! turn 30 is to late, thats the fighting stage of the game.

Birds> Old days or now days, You have a Battleship that is only second to the Nova that can Cloak! and a Bird will gladly trade a low tech Darkwing to kill a Nova in a Darkwing Darkwing battle. They aslo will gladly trade 2 Darkwings for a Super carrier. Birds pick the fights and Imagine 10 T-Rexes attacking and ALL 10 are destroyed with no losses to the Birds other than repairs need to be made, (Cloak intersept or Tow kill). You get several Darkwings suported by several Resolutes in your area its a death sentence. Shoe on other foot, Bird has large force in their space (Cloak interspet/tow kill) Goodbye Fleet. I guess thats the bottom line, Birds have both Offense and defense in spades and the trump card is the Darkwing.

IMO the Borg are the Hardest race to deal with as the Bird, you have a nice day! \:D/


Casebolt....

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#34 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:29 pm

casebolt wrote:If you go T-Rex, Mod, Mod, it becomes a crap shoot on a wide band.
theres a 10% chance of winning the battle (Gorbie/Biocide) with the frist Modzilla! and a 10% chance of causeing NO damage as well. There is a GOOD chance (50%) that the Biocide/Gorbie kills all 3!!! thats to much of a crap shoot for me. You wanta primarly use Modzillas as the Backbone of your fleet good luck. With T-Rex, Modzilla, Modzilla your fleet jsut went Primary build Modzilla, I would say 15%-25% Modzilla for fleet purposes but not a Primary Build.
Eccoview tells me the following (now it is less good to carrier battles), but my B-sim will not run with windows xp.

To make it easy all lizard ships fight left.

T-rex mark 7 x-ray against Bioside with heavy blaster. App. 10% damage.

First madonzilla 460 destroyed against 95 destroyed. Bioside damaged 58% and used 81 fighters for those interested.

Second Madozilla 65 shield to -2% damage. Bioside destroyed. Used 120 fighters.

I know from earlier simulations in B-sim that the above is not correct. I think the second Madonzilla dies about 25% of the time. If the Bioside have enough fighters.

So the best solution is a LCC in front of a base.

....................................................................................................

Try setting your Darkwings up against Madonzillas with heavy blaster.

I will agree the birds is often one of the more fun races to play. However when up against a good lizard all they do is sweeping mines and moving clans.

If lizard make a mistake the Birds might get a kill. Else it will be Lizard waiting for the birds to hit a mine.

You must love the birds very much since you do not see there shortcommings. Like Gilgamesh and his facist.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#35 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:09 pm

I really dont like playing the Bird much, I feel like Im cheating !! :D

Personally I have played the Lizards more than any other race, They have allways been my first choice to pick.

If I was to choose in a shoot out between the two, DA Bird!!!!

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Vodenkugels
Posts: 150

Post#36 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:21 pm

You guys Rock..........

I'm just trying to get the juices flowin' between games

Thanks for all the insight --all the time...........
Practice Hard Fight Easy and WIN
Practice Easy Fight Hard and DIE

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#37 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:36 am

I agree with Casebolt. Build all the Mado's you want to, Bird wont have to fight a single one of them he doesn't want to.
Birds more than ANY other race dictate battle situations. Birds can pick and chose when, where, and What ships to fight, and which planets to fight. Send in a Fleet of Gorbies, Virgo's, Golems, or even T-Rex/Mado's. Bird still gets to pick and choose, and has the ablity to do other things to dicate the battles.
Versus other Races, Birds will also do much better.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Six_Of_One
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Post#38 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:54 am

Perhaps, but the birds wings are clipped if your fleet is wiping out his starbases and you are laying waste to your outter planets. This applies to most races, no point losing warships if you dont have the ability to replace them.

Like i said, it comes down to the skill of the player more than the race chosen. The only resonable test would be to get the best 11 players, and make them play each race to see who/what came out on top. Trouble is with VGA that could take years and years :shock:
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

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Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#39 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:12 am

Six_Of_One wrote:Perhaps, but the birds wings are clipped if your fleet is wiping out his starbases and you are laying waste to your outter planets. This applies to most races, no point losing warships if you dont have the ability to replace them.

Like i said, it comes down to the skill of the player more than the race chosen. The only resonable test would be to get the best 11 players, and make them play each race to see who/what came out on top. Trouble is with VGA that could take years and years :shock:
Hehehehe, you are right on the years and years.

Even with the best player/Race combo, it would still come down to the type of game setup, and luck of draw for nieghbors. One of the really cool things about VGA Planets, is game type, starting spot, and starting neighbors, can really effect the game.

As for SB's, Bird can pick and choose the SB's he attacks as well. You don't have to fight them all.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

planetmaker
Posts: 88
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Post#40 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:06 am

Concerning race balance this statistic of nearly 1000 games may be interesting. It comprises (moslty) thost games before 2005:
http://www.home.aone.net.au/~neilgrigg/ ... nrace.html

That clearly shows that races 4 and 7 perform worst and 2,5 and 6 best.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#41 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:35 am

Siberian Snake wrote:In the old days, when a lot of VGAP games were played, I gathered some stats to see which races perform the best. The games included were Tim host, basically default settings. As it turned out, 9 races have the total results too close to make a statistically significant differences. There are two exceptions. Lizards did much better then the rest. Birds were the worst. The reasons for Lizards domination are obvious. Birds main problem is - they suck in defence and have no economical advantages. Very little can they do if the fleet of Carriers attack their mainland. It might be a good idea to give Birds 2-3 free fighters per SB to balance it out.
However, the difference in the races strength isn't very big, the players skill is much more important factor.
I have a similar POV:

#1: Player skill
(no particular order)
... 1a: diplomacy
... 1b: economy
... 1c: military
#2: Starting conditions
#3: Race
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

planetmaker
Posts: 88
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Post#42 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:39 am

B A N E wrote:
Siberian Snake wrote: However, the difference in the races strength isn't very big, the players skill is much more important factor.
I have a similar POV:

#1: Player skill
(no particular order)
... 1a: diplomacy
... 1b: economy
... 1c: military
#2: Starting conditions
#3: Race
Well, given 1000 games, I think the differences in races can be deduced from that, if we assume that all other factors even out due to statistics.
That said, I agree that the factors mentioned here by you, have mostly a bigger impact. And there's one point, I'd like to add (though it might arguably fall under #1a or #2):
the races whom you end up being at war with. It's completely different, if e.g. an Orion player has to battle a Gorn or a Borg.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#43 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:17 pm

:D
Last edited by casebolt on Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#44 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:19 pm

casebolt wrote:This is why Birds are the Most powerfull race, they have the tools to deal with any race while the Lizards will have problems fighting Large Carriers that can only be over come at great cost, there is no free lunch.
The Problem is what it takes to destroy a Large carrier! where as the Bird will trade 1-2 Darkwings for a Large carrier in a heartbeat vs 4-5 T-Rexes, or T-Rex, Modzilla Combos.

Birds are better suited for destroying large carriers, and Birds are better suited for dealing with Lizards. You bring you LCs and T-Rexes and Ill bring my Resolutes and Darkwings. Lizards can Sneak in LCs and Birds can sneak in Resolutes "AND" Darkwings. A Lizard canot sneak in T-Rexe's-Modzilla's Birds win the sneak contest against any race.

To argue the Lizards over the Birds is not doing the Math, I did a survey on 1,002,929,302,810 games and the Birds won \:D/


Da Birds.



Casebolt....

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#45 » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:08 pm

Casebolt takes accounting lessons from the gubment.
Just throw zeros at it.
:bricks:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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