Strategy hints

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

User avatar
BitMask
Site Admin
Posts: 2318
Contact:

Post#31 » Tue May 18, 2010 8:33 am

My little ships are like ants.
I would say routes are very important.

You can look at my EchoView guide here at C-M under Strategy to see how to do predictions and use the Starbase feature (to know what your buidl will cost).

User avatar
wasp
Posts: 424

Post#32 » Wed May 19, 2010 4:16 am

BANE,
What do tou mean by "staggered circles" ? I've translated to portuguese :) but didn't quite grasped at the meaning of it...

When you say "1000 clans / 200 supplies", how many do you drop for each planet? i know it depends, but let us assume they don't have natives and have good densities/amount. You drop 200 clans,right? and how many supplies?
And money? should we take 700 to build 100 fabs and 100 mines right away? That may be expensive... is it really necessary??

When you say "outbound until it finds a good planet" , doesn't that contradict the "circles"? Or after you return to HW, that LDSF returns to the same planet to establish a route, or it goes to another route completely diferent?

One last thing, for the moment :) , how do you VPA to "VPA to predict what I'll have over the course of the coming turns." ??

Ricardo
Last edited by wasp on Wed May 19, 2010 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

User avatar
wasp
Posts: 424

Post#33 » Wed May 19, 2010 4:52 am

UAU, after reading Care and feeding of planets by Conrad Lesnewski i've just read "A Bird in the Hand Is Worth… " by Conrad Lesnewski ....which states the birdmen as the weakest race in VGAP.

And this article is very well written because it shows the strength given to the birds by several race abilities, Change of the FC, No Fuel burn, etc, and for each it shows the reasons why you can't use them. And those reasons are easily aplicable... so the advantages the birds have are nothing but smoke....

That is not to say they can't become a good race. It's hard to fight a cloaked battleship. You never know when are you going to be attacked, etc, but i don't see those advantages turning into smoke like this....
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

User avatar
BitMask
Site Admin
Posts: 2318
Contact:

Post#34 » Wed May 19, 2010 7:12 am

By Stagering circles Bane is saying this:
If you have a planet with a SB and you draw a circle around it with a radius of about 162 LY, then all those planets feed that SB.
Now do this again next to the first circle with the egdes of the 2 circles not overlapping.
Keep on making circles that do not overlap.

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#35 » Wed May 19, 2010 7:46 am

Staggered circles: ( BM is partly correct. )
Each LDSF is going to be generally on a "circular" route of 4-6 planets.
That route is something of an out and back again or circular, it doesn't
really matter, but the path should end with a full LDSF of minerals and
supplies being dumped at a base and then restocked with outbound
clans (if available). Whether the planets are rich, poor, native or not,
they need to be producing maximum supplies and efficient minerals.
4-6 planets produces 100-110 supplies per turn per planet (440-660).
A 4-6 turn route will keep one LDSF constantly busy.

The staggering is also based on the build order.
If you build one LDSF on Turn 1, it will be outbound on T2.
Then next LDSF build say on Turn 2, it will be outbound on T3.
The LDSF1 is one turns ahead of LDSF2 in its' route.
Same concept for all following freighter builds.
Constant resupply of bases by having the LDSFs coming into base at
regular intervals (hopefully 1/turn) instead of whenever they get there.

Ideally, you want enough minerals and cash at each base each turn
to build a Twarp Heavy every turn (after first 10-15 turns). If you
cannot build a heavy a turn, the problems are as follows:

#1: Too many bases.
#2: Not enough freighters.
#3: Inadequate economy.

1 base building a maxtech best ship per turn from T10 till T20 or T30
produces from 10 to 20 heavies by ship limit at T30.
2 bases = 20 - 40.
3 bases = 30 - 60. (by turn 30!)
It is doable, but it takes logistical coordination.
Having a bunch of weak low tech bases that cannot produce heavies
ends up with an empire that gets rolled.

As for Birds being weakest.
IIRC, that guide was written early in the 3.2 host era.
When VGAP switched from 3.1x to 3.2 (also from dosplan to winplan),
The Birds were crippled. Conrad was an exceptional player and I
had the pleasure of gaming against him a few times. I will need to
reread his birdman guide...IMO, it's probably the only one worth it.
Timo's guide is a sad joke.

In the 3.1 or earlier game era, the Birds were nasty and a particular
player that had Tim's ear was quite successful in getting his beloved
Colonies buffed and the birds nerfed. Why? Because he was an
above average Cofm player that got his clock regularly cleaned by an
exceptional Bird player. The Birds were nerfed so badly in 3.2 that
they became the weakest in the game. Nobody would play them.

Early 3.2 hosts:
#1: Lokis worked versus Birds.
Feds, Lizards would sell Lokis just to screw the birds.
#2: Superspy deluxe was automatic fcode changing.
#3: Resolute and DW both burned fuel to cloak.
(Think about a DW that burns 25 fuel to cloak...3 turn move max)

More later
Last edited by B A N E on Wed May 19, 2010 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#36 » Wed May 19, 2010 8:00 am

wasp wrote:BANE,
What do tou mean by "staggered circles" ? I've translated to portuguese :) but didn't quite grasped at the meaning of it...

When you say "1000 clans / 200 supplies", how many do you drop for each planet? i know it depends, but let us assume they don't have natives and have good densities/amount. You drop 200 clans,right? and how many supplies?
And money? should we take 700 to build 100 fabs and 100 mines right away? That may be expensive... is it really necessary??

When you say "outbound until it finds a good planet" , doesn't that contradict the "circles"? Or after you return to HW, that LDSF returns to the same planet to establish a route, or it goes to another route completely diferent?

One last thing, for the moment :) , how do you VPA to "VPA to predict what I'll have over the course of the coming turns." ??

Ricardo
What to do with each planet:
Bringing cash along in Tim's host means one shot.
Normally, I don't bring cash along...but a following ship might.

Much like Conrad's C&FoP:
A no-native temperate rock with low minerals will get 100 clans
(prioritized) 100 factories and mines is a case by case decision.

A no-native temperate rock with good minerals will get 200 clans,
200 mines, 110 factories.

Natives determine the clans they'll get.
I use growth method taxation to determine the colonist population.
If via growth I can get 2000$ on the tax turn, that planet gets 2000
clans. If I can get $5000 on the tax turn, that planet gets 5000 etc.

Look at factories this way:
They pay for themselves in 4 turns...everything after is gravy.

VPA and projecting the future:
In VPA, you can use the F6 key when looking at a planet to plot out
what the planet is going to do based upon how you develop it.

Ctrl-B brings up "the borgulator" that can be useful as well.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
wasp
Posts: 424

Post#37 » Wed May 19, 2010 9:06 am

What to do with each planet:
Bringing cash along in Tim's host means one shot.
Normally, I don't bring cash along...but a following ship might.
How do you build the fabs? you allways follow with a ship with money? Or do you sell the supplies? It seems a little slow to develop?

ricardo
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#38 » Wed May 19, 2010 9:40 am

To begin with?

I'll often drop only 1 clan on no-native planets and move along looking
for the native worlds. Then as the planet lotto allows, on my return trip
with clans and whatever cash I gained via tax, I will develop the rocks.

Priority is: natives first then good rocks, then bad rocks.

An exception to this standard practice is if I find a good % duranium
and maybe tritanium planet.

Why?
There are times when I do NOT build mines on my homeworld and
instead spend that cash/supply investment on the first planet that
has dur/trit. The 20% Trit & 15% Dur are a horrible investment at
the homeworld and it does decrease the early cashflow at home if
mines are bought there.

One of my goals is to have a merlin up by turn 10 if at all possible
and that includes the twarp LDSFs that I build. That's a LOT of dur
and it cannot be done with a homeworld producing 60 duranium from
400 mines.

The initial LDSF load of ~1000 clans & ~200 supplies, if I send cash
along will be enough to build the factories and defenses to make the
good planet undetectable.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
wasp
Posts: 424

Post#39 » Wed May 19, 2010 11:55 am

B A N E wrote:To begin with?

I'll often drop only 1 clan on no-native planets and move along looking
for the native worlds. Then as the planet lotto allows, on my return trip
with clans and whatever cash I gained via tax, I will develop the rocks.
So, you use the LDSF to drop 1 clan, until you find a native planet where you drop all clans and then return home? you pick clans/mcs and go for the rocks?

I usually drop 200 clans and 200 mines on every planet to extract the minerals quickly. But i guess spending 700 Mcs on every planet is bad...
B A N E wrote: Priority is: natives first then good rocks, then bad rocks.

An exception to this standard practice is if I find a good % duranium
and maybe tritanium planet.

Why?
There are times when I do NOT build mines on my homeworld and
instead spend that cash/supply investment on the first planet that
has dur/trit. The 20% Trit & 15% Dur are a horrible investment at
the homeworld and it does decrease the early cashflow at home if
mines are bought there.
Never thought about not building mines on HW... i guess that can be a waste as well, since if there's enough minerals to satisfy the building of freighters, no need to build up
B A N E wrote: One of my goals is to have a merlin up by turn 10 if at all possible
and that includes the twarp LDSFs that I build. That's a LOT of dur
and it cannot be done with a homeworld producing 60 duranium from
400 mines.
With that merlin and a constant incoming of supplies you can select the minerals you need when needed....
B A N E wrote: The initial LDSF load of ~1000 clans & ~200 supplies, if I send cash
along will be enough to build the factories and defenses to make the
good planet undetectable.
Right, you send in money/supplies/clans to develop that planet and keep it protected.

Can you tell what are the criteria to make a rock a good rock? which value for the density you think it's worth it...
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#40 » Wed May 19, 2010 12:21 pm

Rocks get developed based on need and ability. If I have the ability
it gets developed, if I need what it has and I cannot get it better at
another planet, it gets developed.

Natives are almost always going to be the first priority except when
mineral demands otherwise.

Trying to drop $700 + 200 supplies on each planet will cripple the
early production at homeworld. That's $7000 & 2000 supplies in
the first 10 planets. Without good natives, that's hard to do.

The break even point for that is 9 turns per planet.

Homeworlds normally start with 100 mines.

Good mineral percentages/quantities?
For the early game, compare it to the homeworld.
To bump up to 400 (+300) mines on homeworld:
That gains 60 trit & 45 dur per turn.

So, you're looking to do significantly better than 60t/45d per turn
with a much lower investment

It's the duranium that is the primary issue early.
I usually look for 50% or better and the quantity to exceed 10 turns.
So, 200 mines @ 50% = 100 dur per turn * 10 = 1000 dur.
If you can better that with two planets with 100 mines on each or
whatever combination needed whatever works.

Get the Dur home for both the LDSFs, Merlins and the necessary
early warships.

After I get the merlin, things become much more flexible.
Beyond the merlin, I build my planets with the intent of mining
out the planet of two minerals in 10-20 turns but unless I am borg
I don't try to exceed 200 mines because it is counter productive
clan wise.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
BitMask
Site Admin
Posts: 2318
Contact:

Post#41 » Thu May 20, 2010 1:54 am

What do you guys think of the building of factories, mines and defences at new planets? (This is now after the planet got his clans and supplies from the LDSF, etc)

I mostly use this order:
50f 20m 16d 999f 50m 21d (and then depending on how good the minerals are I will use 80m 100m 200m or not)

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#42 » Thu May 20, 2010 7:18 am

Native worlds:
Depends on the amount, temp and gov't.
The worse the native world, the more factories.
The worse the minerals, the less mines.
Defenses are 15 -> 21 -> 25 ... then it varies.

Most of the time, planets are built as follows:
14 factories, 1 defpost, 19 mines
Then:
15 defposts, optimal factories and optimal mines.
Then:
21 defposts
Then
25 defposts
Then
???
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Gilgamesh
Posts: 4938
Contact:

Post#43 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:25 am

Strategy is for spineless petaQs!

Klingons find their enemies and pillage them to death! :twisted:
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

User avatar
Siberian Snake
Posts: 96

Post#44 » Thu May 20, 2010 9:30 am

I use somewhat different criteria.
Factories - always to the max. The value of the supplies virtually always exceeds the taxation losses. The exceptions exist, but not often.
Mines - at the beginning of the game I build as many mines as needed to mine the planet out in about 50 turns. Minerals with low rate don't count. Later I might increase number of mines, looking to mine the planets out by turn 70.
Defences - 1 (inside empire to defer probes), 19 - outside, to hide the production and kill probes.
If I don't care about hiding, I always max factories first, mines second, and defences the last.

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#45 » Thu May 20, 2010 10:38 am

Early game, I always go for
100 Factories
50-100 mines depending on Rate
21 defence posts
after that I go max Factories
Max mines to strip to planet in the 20-30 range
Defence posts don't change much unless I build a SB.

Now on the front lines, when fighting, I actually build Mines at a higher rate, to strip it as fast as I can and keep Factories to a minimum, until the area can be secured. Some front line SB's are sometimes built to just burn minerals, both in construction of the SB and building lots and lots of Mark1 and Photon torps on SB's that could be captured, do to low clans on the planet.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

Return to “Intel”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron