Strategy hints

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#46 » Fri May 21, 2010 5:36 am

B A N E wrote:To begin with?

I'll often drop only 1 clan on no-native planets and move along looking
for the native worlds. Then as the planet lotto allows, on my return trip
with clans and whatever cash I gained via tax, I will develop the rocks.

Priority is: natives first then good rocks, then bad rocks.
So, you build your first LF with TW and take a route that scouts 4-6 planets in a circle or "out and back", as planets positions dictates.

Drop 1 clan on every world.

When you find natives, you drop enough clans to get the money on the tax turn, drop 100 suplies to build 100 factories, don't drop money because you are going to tax them and won't need to bring the money, or you may bring the money so that if the planet is weak, you can build the fab,mines, dp on one turn. You build mines as appropriate for that native world.

Then you go to the other planet on the route? or return?. And how do you return?

Do you run straight for the HW? Because if you are in a circle, it's faster to go straight for it. Upload clans, and suplies, enough to develop the rocks you decided to develop. Or you can return to the native world to bring more clans so that you get the money on the tax turn.
If you

You only bring back to the route, supplies,money, enough to develop the rocks.

Then you route goes only to those planets developed.

And that LF is enough for that route. If by chance you get more minerals than you can transport, you assign another one, right?

At some point you have more LF than routes. You send those to another group of planets, right? to establish a second base...

Or do you develop as many planets as necessary to develop a T10 ship every turn after T15? even if that means planets that are 4 turns away....
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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BitMask
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Post#47 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:21 am

Wasp. There are no fixed rules. Every map and position is diff.
You need to adjust to the surroundings.

Some times you might go back to your HW faster with the LDSF, sometimes stay out longer. (If you get crappy planets or lots of good ones)
The idea is that when you return that you have picked up the minerals to return to your HW.
When you go out again you refill with clans (and supplies if needed) to supply your planets and come back with minerals.
First you stock your good planets (natives & good minerals) and then later also stock the less good planets.

It's the 80-20 principle. Spend 80% of your time on the 20% best planets and 20% of your time on the 80% bad planets. You have to get to all planets and you have to prioritise. Even a Amorph planet can be valuable.

This is where I use EchoView alot. It tell me the optimum clans needed per planet as well as the max (temp. limit).

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B A N E
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Post#48 » Fri May 21, 2010 10:14 am

BM is correct, I play from a framework that must adapt to the
race and the luck of the planet lotto.

Some race based changes:
#1: Crystals and Robots can be much more aggressive on spacing
their freighters because they are going to heavily mine their space.

#2: Pirates can modify their builds with gravitonics to allow for
getting there twice as fast.

#3: Borg build differently because they can send out smaller ships
and get big results.


As for return paths:
I generally like to run the early LDSFs in reverse of their outbound
path so they can pickup all the surface minerals to return to home.
(If playing Thost, you can only beam up one mineral, in Phost many)
But this is adjustable based upon the planet lotto.

If I get a tight cluster start where I can do a big "circle" in one direction,
I'll do that and beam up a mix of minerals and fuel as I progress.

If I end up with one way strings instead of any circular option, I'll
drive out and drive back picking up all minerals on return.

If I get lucky and get a spectacular 1st native planet, I'll dump all the
clans and immediately return home to reload.

Sometimes if I get a bad start spot, I'll send my 1st LDSF into open
space on T2 hoping I get lucky and don't get seen because it is an
ever greater chance per turn that you will be seen spacing the longer
you wait. If I get a very high money start in this situation, I'll build
the Supertransport freighter for this move. It is a desperation move
but sometimes that is all you have. (Teleport makes it more viable!)

Sometimes, I'll drive out, then cross open space on return but I do not
like to do that as it gives free information to any watchers.

I have on occasion instead built two scouts on T1 & T2 and sent them
out first to precede the freighters.

The first thing to do on T1 is to look at your starting setup and make
a decision on which method will best suit the situation.

And after all that, there's the default Map "Rodu 9" start which almost
guarantees your doom regardless of what you do....
:tumbleweed:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#49 » Fri May 21, 2010 12:35 pm

B A N E wrote: The first thing to do on T1 is to look at your starting setup and make
a decision on which method will best suit the situation.

And after all that, there's the default Map "Rodu 9" start which almost
guarantees your doom regardless of what you do....
Well, you guys rock :D .

I've never seen so many explanations on one thread. Many times i see general ideas, but no concrete answers. Guess you have to rewrite all the guides out there.

Anyway, i'm starting a new game shortly in starbase.net, and i'll keep you up to the progress.

The dificulty in the first turn is really to decide the way out. sometimes i think i'm going in this direction, say a line, which has 10 planets , and then i start to do the math. i must spend 10 turns going through all those 10 planets, then another 10 turns back. I better have minerals mined by the time i get back.... But i think i'm also wrong about this.

Lets see how this game turns out...

ricardo
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#50 » Fri May 21, 2010 1:49 pm

wasp wrote:
B A N E wrote: The first thing to do on T1 is to look at your starting setup and make
a decision on which method will best suit the situation.

And after all that, there's the default Map "Rodu 9" start which almost
guarantees your doom regardless of what you do....
Well, you guys rock :D .

I've never seen so many explanations on one thread. Many times i see general ideas, but no concrete answers. Guess you have to rewrite all the guides out there.

Anyway, i'm starting a new game shortly in starbase.net, and i'll keep you up to the progress.

The dificulty in the first turn is really to decide the way out. sometimes i think i'm going in this direction, say a line, which has 10 planets , and then i start to do the math. i must spend 10 turns going through all those 10 planets, then another 10 turns back. I better have minerals mined by the time i get back.... But i think i'm also wrong about this.

Lets see how this game turns out...

ricardo
Well just remember if you have a Tholian Neighbor again, or somebody that allies with a Tholian, don't ignore the Charging torp ship that, ignores your fleet, and heads to that open space, where you ships came from.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Six_Of_One
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Post#51 » Fri May 21, 2010 8:15 pm

Wasp,

perhaps you should see if Casebolt is willing to give you some tips on the Birds. I have found him to be an exceptionally good Bird player, and an aggressive one.

And of course, these hints are not required for the Borg, they have their own special set of strategies 8)



You will be assimilated.
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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casebolt
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Post#52 » Sat May 22, 2010 7:32 am

Birds are OP,(OVER POWERED) BWO ~Darkwing~ Resolute~ that both cloak.

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B A N E
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Post#53 » Sat May 22, 2010 8:08 am

casebolt wrote:Birds are OP,(OVER POWERED) BWO ~Darkwing~ Resolute~ that both cloak.
Succinct.
:lol:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#54 » Sat May 22, 2010 9:16 am

BWO???

The problem is that the birds need more ships to win and most other races, feds, borg, lizards have so big advantages in terms of money and ships.. The Kitty can damage a DW enough so that a second allmost kills it. If you have 3 novas and 3 kitties, for instance you must have 6 darkwings to intercept-attack them. If you don't have 6 or don't use the intercept , the first nova kills 1 dw and damages another. Then the 2nd nova kills that damaged DW and another one. That's 3 DW and 1 Nova. Then the 2nd nova gets killed. That 4th DW gets killed by the nova. The nova kills the 5th and the 6th DW kills the nova. thats 6 dw and 3 novas...

And still he has 3 kitties.

Compare not the cost per si of building a DW and a NOVA but the easiness of building a DW and a NOVA. The feds have an easier life.

Which goes back to the economy part. That's the first thing to master to win VGAP. Which has been debated in the earlier posts.

Casebolt, since the economic part is taken care of, at least for now, can you say why do you say"Birds are OP,(OVER POWERED) BWO ~Darkwing~ Resolute~ that both cloak"???
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#55 » Sat May 22, 2010 10:08 am

BWO= By Way Of.

Tradeing a DW for a Nova is not a Federation advantage and any Thors,Kitty's,Deplomacies are just sweet PBPs for a DW.

The Best Fed strat against a Bird is build mostly Missouri's IMO.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#56 » Sat May 22, 2010 1:05 pm

Economics.

The feds have one huge issue.
They get 2x cash, but they have 70% mining.
The 70% mining is the painful part.

The Bird needs to drop 200 clans to put 200 mines on a planet
to achieve 200 production.

The Fed needs to drop ~10000 clans to get 290 mines on a planet
to have 203 production.

That's HUGE.

Look at the cost of a DW versus the Nova:
Darkwing (maxtech) costs 207 Trit, 330 Dur, 802 Moly, $3110
Nova (maxtech) costs 375 Trit, 434 Dur, 1130 Moly, $4450

Difference:
Fed: 168 T, 104 D, 328 M, $1340

Adjusted for racial specialization:
4450 / 2 (cuz feds make 2x cash) = $2225 effectively.
Feds effectively have a $885 advantage.

Adjusted for minerals:
375 / 0.7 = 536 Trit (effectively)
434 / 0.7 = 620 Dur (effectively)
1130 / 0.7 = 1614 Moly (effectively)
Effectively, the Fed Nova costs twice as much minerals as the Darkwing.

If we calculate the cost of the torps:
100 torps = 100 Trit + 100 Dur + 100 Moly & $5400 for Bird
100 torps = 143 Trit + 143 Dur + 143 Moly (effective) & $2700 for Fed

The Fed can compensate for some of this by alchemy but there
is still the problem of 70% mining.

So, while the Fed pays less in cash, he pays economically a huge
price to achieve the same mineral production rate.

Fed either has to move 50 times the clans so he can build 45% more
mines than the bird or he has to live with the fact that everything
costs 1.43x more minerals effectively for him.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#57 » Sun May 23, 2010 10:21 am

Precisely my point. The mineral shortage isn't much of a problem if he finds a planet that can produce lots of minerals. As birds i find myself with surplus of minerals and short on cash.

the problem is really the cash

feds can even build low tech novas to refit later.

anyway, i've started my first-after-hints-game :)
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#58 » Sun May 23, 2010 10:27 am

So, now that i've started my game, is the situation.

If any of you wishes to continue this topic by email, i don't mind.

I start in a planet with 3 others within 1 turn distance.
I have 2 start ships.
I have a group of planets more or less circular but with some one way strings.
A string of planets in another direction and and string mixed with circular farther away.

My first move was to use the 2 ships and send them to the 1-turn planets and to make a LF with TW.

Also, if i make a LF every turn, i'm out of DUR in turn 4.
So, should i crank the mines to 374 now or wait? If i wait until turn 3 i won't be able to build the LF on turn 4, but i can build a SH and then return to the LF.

It's a phost game with Tlist and 25K starting money.

So, did i do the right thing?

ricardo
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#59 » Sun May 23, 2010 6:25 pm

What Race?
After turn 1, everything really depends on Race, and next closest cluster for colonizing
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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wasp
Posts: 424

Post#60 » Mon May 24, 2010 3:59 am

The birds, of course :)
"Amateurs study tactics, Professionals study Logistics" in Red Storm Rising from Tom Clancy

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