Ways around the Jupiter addon abilities for the Cybernaut?

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JonnyDoH
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Ways around the Jupiter addon abilities for the Cybernaut?

Post#1 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:27 am

Hey, folks.

Here is my problem: I have a Robot opponent who is making very effective use of the Cybernaut Jupiter abilities in my Pit Game. In case you haven't read about them, they're listed here.

I am not the experienced player my opponent is, and he is less than forthcoming about how to counter it (understandably so, since he is my opponent and I am trying to kill him). I am playing the Cyborg and have wracked my brain on an effective counter. After numerous in game attempts, I remain in the dark.

I am asking-- no, BEGGING, the community to shed some light on how to get around the viral field ability. I feel I've exhausted the Cyborg abilities to find a counter and am now turning to the wisdom of the community for help.

Anyone?

By the way, for a brief of what I've done so far, you can read about it here. Forgive the ranting tone of the post, I was more than a little frustrated by the response by Rimstalker.
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Hawkeye
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Post#2 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:26 am

It's funny - in one of the last Jupiter games I played I had the Robots as a neighbour, and in spite of the presence of cybernauts, had them whittled down to just a couple of starbases, a few ships and a handful of planets by game-end. The one advantage I had was I was playing the Birdmen.

So you're playing the Borg huh? Dang. I'd be attempting to get my hands on a decent cloaker so you can cloak-intercept, but realistically the only capable ship would be a Darkwing, and getting one of those aint gonna be easy.

What I can tell you is the viral field can't be used when the cybernaut is on the move, also it's limited in range, so if he's out in the open, set your cubes to do that super-intercept thing. Unfortunately you'll have to take down the bodyguards first before getting to the cybernaut, and if he gets all tricky on your ass (leaving it fuelless with a cloaker for instance), then you're in for one hell of a time.

My advice would be to ally with someone that has a natural defence against the cybernaut - the birdmen, crystals and colonies come to mind, or alternatively strike an alliance with them - although this may cost you dearly to do so, if you offer enough incentive you might be able to convince the Robot player that you're worth more alive than dead.

Alternatively, chalk this one up to experience, and grab one of the other races next time - from the docs it looks like quite a few of the other races gain more advantage than the borg with the Jupiter add-on :D

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Donovan
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Re: Ways around the Jupiter addon abilities for the Cybernau

Post#3 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:48 am

JonnyDoH wrote:Hey, folks.

....

I am asking-- no, BEGGING, the community to shed some light on how to get around the viral field ability.
Run.

(sorry, couldn't resist)


The Cybernaut is limited by two things. The viral field has range of 50 lightyears, and there can't be another Cybernaut within 100 lightyears. Trust Rimstalker to make sure the second thing won't happen, and concentrate on the first limit.

Basically, you can attack the Cybernaut as long as you're coming from 50+ lightyears. That will mean digging through loads of minefields, but it can be done. The Borg should have a massive economy, with plenty of cubes with heavy phasers.

If you figure out how Jupiter's cube intercept works, you've got an even better shot - you can attack from some odd 160 lightyears out.

Attacking is gonna cost you, but that is what the game is about. You'll lose a bunch of ships to fight through the defending Golems (oh wait make that Biocides), but eventually you'll get to the Cybernaut.

Your ally has Dark Wings and other cloakers, so cloaked intercept is also an option. Mind the 50 lightyears range of the viral field, and you can bypass the defending ships.

Your main problem is that you're only looking at the Cybernaut and how to counter that. You should concentrate more on the Borg, and it's strengths. First look at basic VGA Planets economy and tactics. Then to Jupiter abilities.

I read your rant against Rimstalker in the other thread you're referring to, but face it - the guy has a point. The Pit is a perfect scenario for the Borg, with a large central cluster to assimilate before people even get there and a good homecluster where you can safely develop without fear of early agression from Lizards or Fascists. Quietus Strip gives you an enormous economic advantage, even allows you to heat up arctic planets. With the Quietus, the cube intercept, Fireclouds and your cloaking ally on top of a good Borg economy, you should be able to take care of most if not all opponents. So look at that first, and then to Rimstalker or his Cybernaut.

Rimstalker had a pretty shitty starting cluster, at least compared to mine. He sacrificed a lot of his economy to be the first with doomsday missiles. He succeeded, and as a result you are now all basically screwed on that end. But do the math on those things: he and I have some 20+ launchers ready or under construction. That's 200.000 megacredits and 100.000 of each mineral. Those would make a lot of bases and battleships, heavy phasers, fighters and/or torpedoes. But despite that massive investment in launchers, he still has a base on almost every planet, and more Golems than most people have proper battleships.

My point: yes the viral field is awesome, and when used properly like Rimstalker is doing it is hard to counter. But that holds true for most Jupiter abilities, when used correctly. Either way, when a guy manages to outbuild you by that much, you're screwed anyway with or without addons.

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Hawkeye
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Post#4 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:00 am

Yeah I'm going to second what Donovan said regarding the Pit - it would have to be a near-perfect Borg scenario. With your probes hyperjumping into the middle, you should have the lion's share of the planets and a relatively undisturbed start to the game by turn 40 - exactly what the Borg require to become dominant. If not, then I'd hazard a guess that perhaps it's not the Jupiter add-on that is the problem, but your basic vgap strategies.

Another thing to consider is wether or not the Borg suit your style of play. I've tried a few races out there, and I know some of them suit how I play, others definitely dont. Perhaps try out a new race to see how it fits?

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JonnyDoH
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Post#5 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:15 am

Thank you for that assessment, Donovan and Hawkeye. I do appreciate your answers.

Yeah, as I noted in previous posts, this is the second time I've played the Cyborg-- perhaps not the best idea when I jumped into the Pit game.

While I tried to get a jump into the Pit area, I was severely hampered by the Privateers-- they took a bunch of my early colonies and a LDSF in the first part of the game. I lucked out that the Fed and Fascists turned their attentions to him straight away, but I could easily have been crushed as well.

I should add that some of those guides you host, Donovan, should be updated to note to equip some of the Borg cubes with Heavy Disrupters/Phasers. It's not obvious to newbies (or it wasn't to me until someone pointed it out, at any rate).

My taxing/colony growth were another problem. Thanks to Rimstalker's advice at one point, I was able to max out my economy and produce more of what I needed. By then, of course, I believe it was a little late. Yes, my basic VGA planets economy tactics need work.

Live and learn. Thanks again and I think I know what I need to do for the next game (The current one is just a test bed for future strategies now).
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Six_Of_One
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Post#6 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:35 am

The natural enemy of the Cybernaught is the Gorbie (with transwarp engines)

You need to beg/borrow/steal or prostitute yourself out to get your hands on one (early in the game is preferable) as the capture beam works outside of the viral field.

Once captured no other viral field can be established anywhere near your new cybernaught.

Yes the mob will tell you as soon as your gorbie is sitting on the edge of the viral field they will send ships at you...... but of course as a sneaky Borg player you will have set the firecloud to chunnel to an awaiting fleet. His fleet wont fight anywhere near as well with no shields.

Also keep in mind, while ships can sit in a viral field, if they are not over a starbase, or being tow captured by the privateer or crystals, they cannot be used against you.

The Borg are my favorite race, but they do rely on brute strength and as such a good economy early.

Imho races like the Rebels are good to cut your teeth on, especially since the Rush is cheap and pound for pound the best carrier in the game. Colonies/Feds and Robots are other good choices..... as are standard games to get your eye in so to speak.
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JonnyDoH
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Post#7 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:12 am

Thanks for the replies, guys. I really appreciate the feedback.

I think, fundamentally, my play style was not up to par with the more advanced players of CM. This alone explains much, along with the underestimation of certain Jupiter features.
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JonnyDoH
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Re: Ways around the Jupiter addon abilities for the Cybernau

Post#8 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:19 am

Donovan wrote:
JonnyDoH wrote:Hey, folks.

....

I am asking-- no, BEGGING, the community to shed some light on how to get around the viral field ability.
Run.

(sorry, couldn't resist)
You should change your profile pic to the Doctor now. :lol:
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Hawkeye
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Post#9 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:27 am

Let's face it, any rookie player will have to suck lemons in those first games against the more experienced guys. I'm not saying I'm an experienced player - I still get my ass handed to me on a plate occasionally, but in some games where I've managed to railroad a newbie player right off the map, I'll quite often offer some tips that they possibly weren't aware of to help them further understand the game.

Hawk.

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Cardno
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Post#10 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:10 am

The economy points made in this forum's posts are well made.

I think it's worth making the point that building an economy is very important, but deploying good tactics is also very important.

Getting the balance right between building an economy and wiping out enemies and pillaging their turf is also important

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BitMask
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Post#11 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:06 am

Planets give the opportunity for many different strategies to be used. Depending on your enemies and game settings they might work in the one game but not in the next. So try again.

My advice would be to always stay positive. Any situation, no matter how good or bad your position, can be of positive use. You might not win that one, but you will learn something from it.

All this talk of learning makes me hungry for my next lesson. :)

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Cardno
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Post#12 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:09 am

BitMask wrote:Planets give the opportunity for many different strategies to be used. Depending on your enemies and game settings they might work in the one game but not in the next. So try again.

My advice would be to always stay positive. Any situation, no matter how good or bad your position, can be of positive use. You might not win that one, but you will learn something from it.

All this talk of learning makes me hungry for my next lesson. :)
Mmmm well i'm hungry as well! Didn't see game notifcation re no frills 91, so I missed that one. Maybe the mysterious 'side project' will involve games, and not actually holiday snaps from ][avok's photo album? :wink:

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BitMask
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Post#13 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:55 am

It should be worth the wait.

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Cardno
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Post#14 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:18 am

BitMask wrote:It should be worth the wait.
It's a tourney isn't it......

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B A N E
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Post#15 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:43 am

It's Havok's vegetable garden, he facebook's about it.
:shock:
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