Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

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Wacky
Posts: 32

Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#1 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:44 am

Just wondering,

I seem to remember to read that it was considered bad gamemanship (and even a violation of circus-maximus rules) to build loads of SDSF with tech1 engines, just to keep others from building anything usefull later on (and to get PBP from recycling when needed).

Is this true? If so, I might have to ask Havoc to explain this to someone...
If not, I will rank up my SDSF production at my not-yet-ready-to-build-usefull-stuff starbase(s).

Since (almost) all games at CM use teleport, building SB just to teleport colonists and other stuff becomes more important, so it is more often that you build a starbase before you have resources to build ships at the starbase.

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FireAge
Posts: 424

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#2 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:39 pm

To me it's part of the gameplay of planets. Every base which is not ready to build a good ship, builds a SDSF to be recycled for a point. I do not see how that is bad sportmanship, as anyone can do it...

In addition with Ion Storms in play, you better be sure to recycle them when you can >:-)

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Kassengestell
Posts: 228

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#3 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:01 pm

Wacky wrote:Just wondering,

I seem to remember to read that it was considered bad gamemanship (and even a violation of circus-maximus rules) to build loads of SDSF with tech1 engines,...
never heard (or read) this...
every ship i build is a ship that my enemies could not build. i have no clue why this should be forbidden ?? :?:
join the mobile infantry

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#4 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:21 pm

I use sdsf as pods, tow with another ship increases the cargo room.

About Teleport, when using TX codes does this prevent building ships at the SBs transmitting or receiving?

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#5 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:43 pm

That hasn't happened to me. I've been able to teleport and build at the base.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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BitMask
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Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#6 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 1:47 am

@Wacky, yes you are correct in that it is against C-M policies to do that.

If you however recycle that SDSF that you build the next turn for a PBP when you SB cannot build anything else yet, that is just good tactics. Or if you use the ship for something like towing for extra cargo room...

The issue is to build lots of junk and just let it lay around on the backside of a old planet so that no one else can build ships.

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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#7 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:31 am

BitMask wrote:If you however recycle that SDSF that you build the next turn for a PBP when you SB cannot build anything else yet, that is just good tactics.
That's interesting! I always thought that that was covered under queue stuffing, hence I never did that. I know it's perfectly legal to build something with higher tech to be dismantled at a starbase with lower tech (such as building an SDSF with mk 10 engines to be disassembled at a starbase that might only have tech 8, say), but doing it just to gain PBP, I thought, was illegal.

Well, something to do for my Power game then. Thanks for the clarification!
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JonnyDoH
Posts: 433

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#8 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:34 am

Oh, the listing of queue stuffing is here: http://www.circus-maximus.com/gamerules.htm
No queue stuffing. It's a cheap tactic that exploits the limitations of the VGA Planets game design. It is not a legitimate military or political tactic. If you're caught doing it you'll be disqualified and removed from said game.
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Wacky
Posts: 32

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#9 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 10:32 am

Exactly, that was the thing I remembered.

So the question becomes:
What is "queue stuffing"?

Is building junk to recycle later for PBP queue stuffing?

Or is this only queue stuffing for certain instances of 'later'?
- If you recycle them the NEXT turn it is OK?
- If you recycle them before the ship limit is reached it is OK?
- If you recylce them at SOME point in the future, after ship limit is reached, just when you need that extra PBP or a ship you desperately need is next in the queue it is OK?

Given the different reply's above, we need some clear answers here ;). Right now, some players use tactics they think are valid, while other players believe these qualify as forbidden exploits. Not a level playing field.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#10 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:32 pm

Did you miss what he said? Don't build ships that just sit around to keep others from building ships. If your intent is to stuff the Que and sit on your nest of ships not using them in any way but keeping the Que jammed, That is a NO NO. Thus if your intent is to use those same ship for Pbp's your fine.

Where is Morgan Freeman when you need him. :lol:


Casebolt.....

Wacky
Posts: 32

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#11 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:36 pm

I did not miss that casebolt ;). I understand your reasoning, but from a rules point of view, it's rather hard to referee.

I can ALWAYS claim that I 'intend' to recycle them at some point in the future for PBP. So as long as there is no limit to the 'when', effectively you have an OK to have spacejunk filling up the queue.

Additionally, I do not think it is the intend of the game for players to fill up the ship limit with loads of tech1-SDSF's. Which would then be used 40 turns later to recycle at just the opportune moment when the build queue is at your SB. It seems to me that that tactic (effectively blocking other players from building a real ship before the ship limit is reached) fits the meaing of queue stuffing pretty good.

If you want to restrict players from filling the queue, then you should make the rule that they are recycled immediately the turn after. That way, the build has a purpuse (gives you 1 PBP), and it is possible to referee.

(unless of course you are using them as extra cargo space to tow around. At that point you actually use the ships).

Of course, you could also use as definition of queue stuffing that it can only be done after the ship limit is reached. And at that point you are not allowed to build 'space-junk' to sit around [blocking the build queue]. Meaning that if at that point you build a NEW tech1-SDSF, you should immediately recycle it for PBP the turn after.

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Kassengestell
Posts: 228

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#12 » Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:45 pm

JonnyDoH wrote:Oh, the listing of queue stuffing is here: http://www.circus-maximus.com/gamerules.htm
No queue stuffing. It's a cheap tactic that exploits the limitations of the VGA Planets game design. It is not a legitimate military or political tactic. If you're caught doing it you'll be disqualified and removed from said game.
WOW :shock: never read that. seems you must remove me from all games...
join the mobile infantry

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akshamu
Posts: 499

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#13 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:43 pm

Wacky wrote:I did not miss that casebolt ;). I understand your reasoning, but from a rules point of view, it's rather hard to referee.

I can ALWAYS claim that I 'intend' to recycle them at some point in the future for PBP. So as long as there is no limit to the 'when', effectively you have an OK to have spacejunk filling up the queue.

Additionally, I do not think it is the intend of the game for players to fill up the ship limit with loads of tech1-SDSF's. Which would then be used 40 turns later to recycle at just the opportune moment when the build queue is at your SB. It seems to me that that tactic (effectively blocking other players from building a real ship before the ship limit is reached) fits the meaing of queue stuffing pretty good.

If you want to restrict players from filling the queue, then you should make the rule that they are recycled immediately the turn after. That way, the build has a purpuse (gives you 1 PBP), and it is possible to referee.

(unless of course you are using them as extra cargo space to tow around. At that point you actually use the ships).

Of course, you could also use as definition of queue stuffing that it can only be done after the ship limit is reached. And at that point you are not allowed to build 'space-junk' to sit around [blocking the build queue]. Meaning that if at that point you build a NEW tech1-SDSF, you should immediately recycle it for PBP the turn after.
Wacky - the rules are intended to guide players on fair play, not to necessarily be there for Havok et al to use as a hammer against any minor infraction. We are supposed to follow the intent of the rule as good gamers and not force that type of action on Havok.
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An American is a person who does things because they haven't been done before

Wacky
Posts: 32

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#14 » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:16 pm

Thanks for the clarification Akshamu.

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akshamu
Posts: 499

Re: Building SDSF with tech1 engines OK or not?

Post#15 » Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:54 pm

Wacky wrote:Thanks for the clarification Akshamu.
Glad to help out...... :D
An Englishman is a person who does things because they have been done before.

An American is a person who does things because they haven't been done before

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