Sneaky trick question

Here you can find, hints, strategies and other info for VGA Planets, PHost and it's many addon's and utilities.

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

primed
Posts: 53

Sneaky trick question

Post#1 » Fri May 19, 2006 6:38 pm

So a Klingon tried the trick on me (Tholian) where I captured a ship with ff4 as the code. I am changing it of course right away.

I wanted to verify that takes effect immediately and he doesn't get a free turn.

Thanks

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#2 » Fri May 19, 2006 8:53 pm

Primed,
Good news and Bad news,
Good news, Set a ship to ee4, and you end the alliance. Ead news, he has had his free turn already, this last one.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Kid Khan
Posts: 185
Contact:

Post#3 » Sat May 20, 2006 2:55 am

Enemy#1 wrote:Ead news, he has had his free turn already, this last one.
What happens, when you set the 'eex' command just the same turn you capture a ship, as sort of preventive countermeasure? Which gets processed earlier? Is it a matter of ship IDs that get processed 1 to 500, or are those codes evaluated in an extra phase? Are they compared to find a logic result or just blindly set by a certain order so the last one processed 'wins'?

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#4 » Sat May 20, 2006 9:33 am

Kid Khan wrote:
Enemy#1 wrote:Ead news, he has had his free turn already, this last one.
What happens, when you set the 'eex' command just the same turn you capture a ship, as sort of preventive countermeasure? Which gets processed earlier? Is it a matter of ship IDs that get processed 1 to 500, or are those codes evaluated in an extra phase? Are they compared to find a logic result or just blindly set by a certain order so the last one processed 'wins'?
The eeX and the ffX code are processed in ships ID order. If ships ID # 2 (Tholian) sets its friendly code ee2 and ships ID # 5 (Lizard) sets his friendly code to ff2, and you capture it, then the Lizards will have a first level alliance with the Tholians. If ships ID # 2 (Lizard) sets its friendly code ff2 and ships ID # 5 (Tholian) sets his friendly code to ee2, and you capture ship ID # 2, no alliance is made since you broke the alliance after he made it all in the same turn.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#5 » Sat May 20, 2006 9:38 am

Question, why does everyone keep using the ffX instead of FFX, don't they want to use the second level alliance advantage over the first level alliance?
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
BitMask
Site Admin
Posts: 2318
Contact:

Post#6 » Sat May 20, 2006 12:20 pm

Commodore Cherek, you're correct about the ship order setting the ff/FF code.

I've found many people don't know or understand the FF code? Don't know why. Can't find it in the winplan help file. Maybe this is the only play people look for help? Hope not!

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#7 » Sat May 20, 2006 12:30 pm

Okay everyone who don't know that there are two levels of alliance or the difference between the first level and the second level. (From Donovan's Site)

Two levels of alliance
Since host 3.22.039, there are two levels of alliance. The first level is the same as the 'oldfashioned' alliance mode, granting allies safety from eachother's minefields and preventing combat against eachother. The second, stronger alliance level shares information between allies: granting someone a strong alliance will allow him to see all of your ships, and to see all the ships you see. This second level allows your allies, when VPA features are enabled, to intercept ships that you can see but they cannot see themself (because you can see those ships) or to transfer materials to your ships even though they are cloaked.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#8 » Sat May 20, 2006 2:20 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:
Kid Khan wrote:
Enemy#1 wrote:Ead news, he has had his free turn already, this last one.
What happens, when you set the 'eex' command just the same turn you capture a ship, as sort of preventive countermeasure? Which gets processed earlier? Is it a matter of ship IDs that get processed 1 to 500, or are those codes evaluated in an extra phase? Are they compared to find a logic result or just blindly set by a certain order so the last one processed 'wins'?
The eeX and the ffX code are processed in ships ID order. If ships ID # 2 (Tholian) sets its friendly code ee2 and ships ID # 5 (Lizard) sets his friendly code to ff2, and you capture it, then the Lizards will have a first level alliance with the Tholians. If ships ID # 2 (Lizard) sets its friendly code ff2 and ships ID # 5 (Tholian) sets his friendly code to ee2, and you capture ship ID # 2, no alliance is made since you broke the alliance after he made it all in the same turn.
Ah darn.
I was waiting for him to comeback and answer that question. As a GOOD Tholian you should have HIGH ID ships set to eex, where x= the race you might be towing. Personally I have one High ID,set to ee5 just in case he surprises me with a empty ship at a SB and the little bugger surrenders, he gets a FREE pass and a location of where they are at too, and they will do it with a cloaker with no Torps, and CRAP engines too.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

primed
Posts: 53

Post#9 » Sat May 20, 2006 2:59 pm

I don't think the current turn was a freebie - maybe next turn if at all.
At least 6 ships hit mines this turn and with Raceplus I did get fuel from him.


I set "ee4" and "ee9" (since Robots are another target) on my two highest ship number ships that aren't in combat.

JoeSnoffy
Posts: 8

Post#10 » Sat May 20, 2006 6:08 pm

According to Donovans excellent site you have not been allied with your enemy:

“If one of your enemies passes you a ship (through towcapture, surrendering at a starbase or captured in battle) that is set to make or break an alliance, the Host program does not use this code to effect your alliances.”

If you are not completely sure you can also have a look at your alliance status:

“Your alliance status
Since host 3.22.039, there are two ways to check your alliance. The easiest way is through the host configuration message you receive each turn. These messages are only sent in host version 3.22.039 and higher. People using older host versions can only check their alliance through the Tim Continuum message (see below).
The following is an example alliance status message, sent to the Lizards:
(-g0000)FF / ff Allies:
Race: 1 YES / yes
Race: 3 YES / YES
The above message means the Lizards have offered the Federation a second level alliance (YES), while the Federations have only given the Lizards a first level alliance (yes). The Lizards and Birdmen have a 'second level' alliance together: both can see eachother's ships and both can see all the ships the other ally can see. (YES/YES). Basically, a lower-case yes means a first level alliance, upper-case YES means a second level alliance. If you offer someone an alliance but they are not offering you an alliance, they'll read YES/NO or yes/NO.”

I hope you find this information helpful.

Best wishes

JoeSnoffy

Ogie
Posts: 41

Post#11 » Sun May 21, 2006 1:33 am

I think I've seen this question come up on the newsgroup before. If I remember right the alliance codes only work on the turn it is set. As alliances are set/broken fairly early in the host order this trick can't work. Never tested it myself though. So that also means if you set an alliance with ffx on Ship #1 but later break it without ever changing the ffx code on Ship #1 you will not reform the alliance. Unless you set a different ship to ffx


Ogie

primed
Posts: 53

Post#12 » Mon May 22, 2006 9:37 am

Turn 1 I captured ship. Check for Alliance happened first so the code didn't matter and his other ships hit mines.

Turn 2 I change the code so he shouldn't get a freebie.

What I was worried about:
Host didn't change the code - so Turn 2 if I didn't change it because I didn't notice it - it should take effect. Turn 2 it is a ship I own - not a newly captured or surrendered - so code should be considered valid. If it isn't, then Host marked the ship some way so Alliance codes on it don't matter for the rest of the game which is what y'all are telling me.

What you are stating is once a ship is used to to set an Alliance that change is in effect and does not get "read" every time. This lets you set other codes on the ship and you don't lose an Alliance if the ship is destroyed, captured or recycled.

The Host is smart enough to recognize a captured/surrendered ship and ignore it's code until you change it to something new. Sort of like setting the archive flag on a file to backup - one setting it gets ignored, the other setting it gets processed as new.

Thanks

User avatar
AngryJohnny
Posts: 293

Post#13 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:41 am

I just ran a test game on this issue. The results were:

Pirate MBR tow/capture Robot Insturmentality

Robot FCODE set to FF5

Pirate FCODE set to iyt

Only 2 ships in play

Pirate captures Robot

Checked for alliance settings - NONE

Changed FCODE of captured Robot ship - no allance set in game. If I hadn't changed the FCODE an alliance would have been set with the next HOST cycle.

Sadly, as cool as this little espianoge trick would be if it worked, it appears that the HOST does not allow the FCODE to take effect the turn the ship is captured as mentioned on Donovans site.


-- Angry Johnny

"If you wish to make the gods laugh, tell them your plans"

Image

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#14 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:23 am

Try FF9
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Cherek
Posts: 5695
Contact:

Post#15 » Sun Aug 27, 2006 9:50 am

AngryJohnny wrote:Sadly, as cool as this little espianoge trick would be if it worked, it appears that the HOST does not allow the FCODE to take effect the turn the ship is captured as mentioned on Donovans site.
That is because Host "checks for alliance friendly code" at the beginning of the turn. So Privateer doesn't own the ship until afterwards.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

Return to “Intel”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron