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Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:46 pm
by FireAge
Question which has been puzzeling me and my ally.

A Cyborg Annihilation is being towed through a allied Crystal webmine field by 2 Lizard cloaking ships.
The ships alternate rolls each turn, one tows and runs out of fuel, the other cloaks to the same destination.
Then the cloaked vessel transfers fuel to the out of fuel ship, and tows the annihilation, while the out of fuel ship cloaks and moves along.

There are no other ships nearby, just those 3 ships. This is sure because for one thing, the webfield has been there for a long time, so no cloakers can come near it, and for another thing, because the destination each turn is not predeterminable (random between 10-40 ly and random direction).

How can the annihilation suddenly gain 56 mass, when it has been loosing a steady 25 mass each turn from being in the webmine field?

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:13 am
by Hawkeye
Spontaneous mass gain? Yeah happened to my wife as soon as I put the ring on her finger... :(

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:27 am
by Havok
FireAge wrote:Question which has been puzzeling me and my ally.

A Cyborg Annihilation is being towed through a allied Crystal webmine field by 2 Lizard cloaking ships.
The ships alternate rolls each turn, one tows and runs out of fuel, the other cloaks to the same destination.
Then the cloaked vessel transfers fuel to the out of fuel ship, and tows the annihilation, while the out of fuel ship cloaks and moves along.

There are no other ships nearby, just those 3 ships. This is sure because for one thing, the webfield has been there for a long time, so no cloakers can come near it, and for another thing, because the destination each turn is not predeterminable (random between 10-40 ly and random direction).

How can the annihilation suddenly gain 56 mass, when it has been loosing a steady 25 mass each turn from being in the webmine field?

Are you getting an 'mass error' message with your turn when you send it in? Also, is this a THost or PHost game? Is the cube still a borg ship or is it a Lizard ship? If borg, is it repairing itself? What are the addon's in use in this game, etc...

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:17 pm
by FireAge
The game is No Frills 101:

Game Options: Mods: Teleport. Map: Custom. Homeworlds: Random Locations.. Extra Rich HW, Random Normal Planets. High Pop. High Money. Starbase @ HW with 2 ships. TimHost 3.22.47. Rank to Join: Space Cadet.

No error message, the ship just became more heavy, and it's still in Cyborg hands. We are trying to drain it.
So it's disturbing to see it suddenly gain in mass...

Borg ship is not damaged, so I don't think it is repairing, and even if it was, how would that increase its mass?

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:25 pm
by Rimstalker
any chance it blew up one of your lizard ships?

and have you checked in various clients?

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 3:36 pm
by FireAge
No, no ships got blown up.
Just the two alternating towing LCC, and the Annihilation there.

I checked it in PCC2 and VPA, my ally uses Winplan.

I can supply RST files if needed, if someone is interested in checking it out :)
But I won't post them here, as our opponents would have a field day!

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 5:07 pm
by Rimstalker
did you ask your opponent?

They might not be Mr. Smartypants (like some other players in past games - Hello Fexer!) and actually tell you. Or at least tell you if they did anything that 'caused' it.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:11 am
by BitMask
There will be a good reason for it, as Host checks the mass and any gains from the turns it receive and will give yellow/red errors if problems are found.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:46 am
by FireAge
I'll ask Sorigal now, doesn't hurt :)

But I was interested to see if anyone could come up with a reason, I could not come up with.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:06 am
by Rimstalker
have you checked your trn file with untrn to see if somehow you transferred to the wrong ship?

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:56 am
by Donovan
Didn't they just transfer some fuel and/or cargo from one of the LCCs to the cube? There could also be a third cloaker there, although probably unlikely inside webs.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:32 am
by Marcel
Hey @all,
I’m the lizard.

We thought about fail fuel transfer too. After checking (unTRN & EchoView) we can say: no fuel was transmitted.
A supporting cloaker is nearly impossible: The Anni. (=last borg ship) stands 10+ turns in webs and is towed to an unforeseeable point every turn.

Let’s see if Sorigal can light us.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:38 am
by Donovan
Oh the Lizard ships are allied to the Crystals, not to the Cyborg. Should have gotten that from the running out of fuel and cloaking towards the same position.

Any chance Sorigal missed his turn and the Q played it for him? It's been known to produce fuel out of nowhere.

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:16 pm
by Raven2
Donovan wrote:Oh the Lizard ships are allied to the Crystals, not to the Cyborg. Should have gotten that from the running out of fuel and cloaking towards the same position.

Any chance Sorigal missed his turn and the Q played it for him? It's been known to produce fuel out of nowhere.
Not out of nowhere. All Q ships have ram scoops. From The Q documentation:


"1) THE Q has aquired Ram Scoop technology and has fitted all its ships with the Ram Scoop device. This a racial ability of THE Q and it cannot be acquired by capturing Q ships."

Re: Spontaneous mass gain

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:22 pm
by Rimstalker
and? the anni was towed. but it 'being the last ship' leans toward Q.