SFB: Evolution

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Klauser
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SFB: Evolution

Post#1 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:25 pm

I have an idea for the next run of the SFB shiplist - or the one after ARENA if BANE chooses to use the SFB ships...

The game will be run in four "phases", each with a progressively larger shiplist.

In Phase 1 you start with a limited number of ship options - generally a frigate, destroyer, and a small freighter.

At the start of Phase 2, you get a new set of data files which gives you more ships to build (your previous ships can still be built). In Phase 2 you have some largers ships - generally Cruisers, Light to Medium Carriers, a larger freighter.

At the start of Phase 3, you get a another set of data files which gives you even more ships to build (your previous ships can still be built). In Phase 3 you have even largers ships - generally Dreadnoughts, Battlecruisers, and Race specific battle tugs.

At the start of Phase 4, you get a your final set of data files which gives your full complement of ships (again, your previous ships can still be built). In Phase 4 you'll have access to your "big guns" - generally your Battleships, Heavy Carriers, Space Control Ships, and alchemy ships.

SFB lore specifically lends itself to this type of approach. For example, the Romulan ships are from three distinct "eras" - the early "Eagle" era ships (i.e. SNIPE, WAR EAGLE); the "Klingon" era ships they got in trade with the Klingons (i.e. the Klingon D6 derived KESTRAL); and the modern "Hawk" series.

I think this will make an interesting twist on the game in that your lighter, cheaper ships will form the initial core of your fleet and will be the ones that are out on your frontiers earlier.

Off the top of my head, I think the Phase 2 ships should arrive about turn 25, the Phase 3 ships on about turn 50 and the Phase 4 ships on about turn 75.

Your thots!!
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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B A N E
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Post#2 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:41 pm

:-k

I'm intrigued.

I also think this concept could be included in Arena!
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#3 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:30 pm

B A N E wrote::-k

I'm intrigued.

I also think this concept could be included in Arena!
Interesting. I didn't think of combining the two concepts.

I ran a proof-of-concept test game last year just to make sure I got the data files down. Evolution brings into sharp focus a players expansion options - do you opt for a quick expansion with smaller capital ships, or do you hold off and expand later with bigger guns.

Combining this concept with Arena forces the players hand - a delay in expansion could mean a quick loss.

I like it!

I'll dig up my notes this evening and see if I can't post the ships each race gets for each Phase.
Last edited by Klauser on Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Havok
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Post#4 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:31 pm

Klauser wrote:
B A N E wrote::-k

I'm intrigued.

I also think this concept could be included in Arena!
Interesting. I didn't think of combining the two concepts.

I ran a proof-of-concept test game last year just to make sure I got the data files down. Evolution brings into sharp focus a players expansion options - do you opt for a quick expansion with smaller capital ships, or do you hold off and expand later with bigger guns.

Combining this concept with Arena forces the players hand - a delay in expansion could mean a a quick loss.

I like it!

I'll did up my notes this evening and see if I can't post the ships each race gets for each Phase.
You know that 2006 SDC is right around the corner :)
Regards,
][avok

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#5 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:39 pm

Havok wrote:You know that 2006 SDC is right around the corner :)
REALLY!!

IIRC, we chatted about me being a judge this year as opposed to a contestant.

Too bad ... I've got several ideas still floating around my pointy-little head:

- A Battlestar Galactica based scenario
- A StarWars Scenario you suggested set in an alternate timeline.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#6 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:48 pm

Incorporating into Arena.

Possibly:
Phase 1 & 2 used in Cluster combat 1. (8 players)
Phase 3 used in Cluster combat 2 (4 players)
Phase 4 used in Cluster combat 3 (2 players)

Evolution:
Borg could be a real problem.
It takes 18 turns from 1 clan to full assimilation and of course, it
takes a lot less time if more are dropped.
1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128,256,512 (not considering growth/death)

Perhaps a phase based adjustment to the borg?
Cluster 1, they get 25% assim...
Cluster 2, they get 50% assim...
Cluster 3/4, they get 100% assim.

That would greatly reduce Borg clan dominance and defensive
power in a small ship universe while in 1st and 2nd clusters.

Interesting results of an evolving shiplist:
Quick kill will be difficult...which is a favorite of certain races.
Ships initially will be weak versus planets and bases.
Players will want to dispose of their early ships to get bigger ships.

If Homeworld/Flagship is used, then with the built in killrace, the ship
limit will be delayed substantially and slots will open in groups when
a player falls.

Interesting.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#7 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 6:47 pm

Klauser wrote:
Havok wrote:You know that 2006 SDC is right around the corner :)
REALLY!!

IIRC, we chatted about me being a judge this year as opposed to a contestant.

Too bad ... I've got several ideas still floating around my pointy-little head:

- A Battlestar Galactica based scenario
- A StarWars Scenario you suggested set in an alternate timeline.
Yeah I remember very well. I'd like to make those scenarios one day. First we'd need to change the rotation of the earth and have a 36 hour day. That would be awesome.

I do need some judges this year as well. I'd like to have 2 additional ones, and at least one of them being a host of a VGAP site. I had planned on Ed being one but he took his site down. Maybe Merlyn would be intrested. Then of course the other judge being someone involved with making this kind of stuff. If BANE isn't intrested in joining the competition then that might be the way to go, so you can participate.
Regards,
][avok

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#8 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 8:27 pm

Havok,

I'd likely have more time to judge than to build a scenario.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#9 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:21 pm

B A N E wrote:Havok,

I'd likely have more time to judge than to build a scenario.
You intrested then?
Regards,
][avok

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#10 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 9:45 pm

I'm torn.

I am enjoying brainstorming ideas with Klauser on Arena/Evolution
which could grow into a nifty "mini-ladder-tourney" setup that does
not take forever and a day to cycle through.

Once I get a grip on WC/Fhost, I should have more time to work on
the timlist fix project. I've got a solid framework of what I want to
do and when I get that done, I'd like to play that list. I am thinking
about adjusting the list for Fhost as well.

But, yes, I'm interested.
Keep me updated please.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#11 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 10:50 pm

Like BANE, I'm somewhat torn here as well.

I'd love to judge SDC 2006 for ya, but all this talk about Arena and Evolution have given me a real case "developers itch" again.

Sigh ... decisions, decisions.

Regardless, please keep me posted on the SDC details as well.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#12 » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:56 pm

Okay ... back to Evolution.

I dug up my notes this evening. I had it wrong - there where five phases, not four.

Here's the way I had it broken out in:

Phase 1
-------
Fed: ClassHFrt, BurkeFF, SaladinDD
Gorn: ClassHFrt, RaptorFF, CarnosaurDD
Rom: ClassHFrt, SnipeFF, WarEagleCM
Klingon: ClassHFrt, F5FF, D6CR
Orion: ClassHFrt, SlaverFRT
Selt: ClassHFrt, SeltFF, SeltDD
Tholian: ClassHFrt, ArachnidPC
Lyran: ClassHFrt, CheetahFF, LeopardDD
ISC: ClassHFrt, ISC FF, ISC DD
Hydran: ClassHFrt, HunterFF, LancerDD, Uhlan CVL
Kzin: ClassHFrt, KzinFF, KzinDD, KzinCVE

Phase 2
-------
Fed: ClassCFrt, PtolemyTug, ConstitutionCA
Gorn: ClassCFrt, StegosaurWC, BrontosaurTug, AllosaurCA
Rom: ClassCFrt, KestralCR, FreightEagle
Klingon: ClassCFrt, D5WC, KlingonTug
Orion: ClassCFrt, Corsair, CasinoShip
Selt: ClassCFrt, SeltCA
Tholian: ClassCFrt, WaspTFM, TholianTug
Lyran: ClassCFrt, YaguarCVL, TigerCA, CougarTug
ISC: ClassCFrt, ISC CVL, ISC CA, ISC Tug
Hydran: ClassCFrt, RangerCA, CaravanTug
Kzin: ClassCFrt, KzinBCR, KzinCM, KzinCV, KzinTug

Phase 3
-------
Fed: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, KirovBC, NimitzCV
Gorn: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, StegosaurV
Rom: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, SparrowhawkV, FirehawkCA, RomulanTug
Klingon: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, D7CA, D7V, C7BCR
Orion: AlchemyFRT, MarauderCA
Selt: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, SeltTug
Tholian: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, BWidowCVL, MantisCA
Lyran: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, JaguarWC, SibTigerCV
ISC: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, ISC CVS
Hydran: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, CavalierCV
Kzin: AlchemyFRT, CasinoShip, Kzin DN

Phase 4
-------
Fed: LAS, FederationDN, KearsargeNCL
Gorn: LAS, MegalosaurCV
Rom: LAS, CondorDN
Klingon: LAS, C8DN
Orion: LAS, SalvageShip, RaiderCR
Selt: LAS, SeltCV
Tholian: LAS, ScorpionCV, TarantulaDN
Lyran: LAS, HellcatBC
ISC: LAS, ISC DN
Hydran: LAS, OverlordBCR
Kzin: LAS, KzinCVA


Phase 5
-------
Fed: AresBB, NapoleanCVA
Gorn: TRexDN
Rom: CondorC
Klingon: C8V, B10
Orion: ---
Selt: HiveShip
Tholian: NeoTholianBB
Lyran: LionDN, SibLionCVA
ISC: ISC CVA
Hydran: PaladinDN, IronDukeCVA
Kzin: KzinSCS


HConfig Notes:
----------------
- ON: Casino, Cloning, BuildFighters
- OFF: HyperDrive
- Glory Dev on starting at Phase 3
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Havok
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Post#13 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:04 am

B A N E wrote:I'm torn.

I am enjoying brainstorming ideas with Klauser on Arena/Evolution
which could grow into a nifty "mini-ladder-tourney" setup that does
not take forever and a day to cycle through.

Once I get a grip on WC/Fhost, I should have more time to work on
the timlist fix project. I've got a solid framework of what I want to
do and when I get that done, I'd like to play that list. I am thinking
about adjusting the list for Fhost as well.

But, yes, I'm interested.
Keep me updated please.
You've got some time still. The contest will run through the month of August, judging and results will take place in Sept.

I've still got to put things together update the rules and stuff, so no hurry.
Regards,
][avok

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#14 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 12:07 am

Klauser,
The above is from the SFB list correct?

Ok, simple adjustment to above regarding 5 phases:
(Which I think I like better than 4.)

Cluster 1 (Phase 1 & 2) 8 players
Using Klauser's estimated T25 add Phase 2.
Victors of their cluster gets access to a wormhole to 1 new cluster.

Cluster 2 (Phase 3 & 4) 4 players remain
As soon as all four clusters are conquered, Phase 3 begins.
25 turns later, Phase 4.
Victors of the Cluster vs Cluster conflict gain new wormhole(s) to
remaining cluster(s).

Cluster 3 (Phase 5) 2 players.
Phase 5 starts as soon as last two players left.

Thots?
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#15 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 4:43 am

i need alchemy-ships at turn one 8-[ please O:)
have fun!

hennef

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