Lot of new players/possibilities

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Moderators: BitMask, Havok

Poll: Should there be games for players of different experience?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:38 am

No, I like killing newbies - makes mee fell good!
1
6%
No for another reason.
8
50%
Yes, more equal players make the game more interesting.
7
44%
Total votes: 16

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Lot of new players/possibilities

Post#1 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:38 am

Hi Havok/Everyone

It appears this site get a lot of new players, opening up some new possibilities.

Some have played before and some are new to the game.

Instead of just letting them all start in the same game. I believe it would be a good idea to write in the game description who are supposed to join the games being set up.

It could look like this:

1: Beginners

2: Some experience

3: Experienced

4: Open for everyone

Playing against players at your level are much more interesting than being killed or killing newbies.

It might also give newbies a better chance to figure out if they want to continue playing VGA.


I have added a poll to see if I´m allone with those toughts.

No need to ask Havok to implement something not supported by a majority of the players.

I figure it would be rather easy to implement or I would not have dared adding a poll witout asking our Host.

If some of you for some reasons don´t like the idea, fell free to comment on the suggestion.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#2 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:15 pm

I know what you are trying to accomplish, but when I 1st started playing a few years ago, the 1st site I played at made me play a 30 turn game with other newbies, I learned very little about the game, I joined a different site, Battlestar Command, where I learned more in just a matter of a few turns, from more experienced players helping me and abusing me. I learned lessons, both good and bad, in a much shorter period of time, than if I was kept in a all rookie pool. If you are a rookie and get blasted email your attacker afterwards for some pointers, you will find most will respond, AFTER its over to explain what you did wrong and right.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#3 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:25 pm

Enemy#1 wrote:I know what you are trying to accomplish, but when I 1st started playing a few years ago, the 1st site I played at made me play a 30 turn game with other newbies, I learned very little about the game, I joined a different site, Battlestar Command, where I learned more in just a matter of a few turns, from more experienced players helping me and abusing me. I learned lessons, both good and bad, in a much shorter period of time, than if I was kept in a all rookie pool. If you are a rookie and get blasted email your attacker afterwards for some pointers, you will find most will respond, AFTER its over to explain what you did wrong and right.
I vote "No" for exactly the same reason Enemy #1 makes.

When I was a new player, I got WAY more out of a game by playing with better players - nothing teaches you more about the Privateers than having your HW locked down by a player who REALLY knows how to steal, tow, and capture.

As a local HOST for several years, I tried running several "rookies only" games. While several players did like the format, most were bored after 30-40 turns and were ready for bigger action.

My two credits worth ...
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Cardno
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Post#4 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:15 pm

Possibly create a few games now and then which are intended to be for newer players? If they want to the newer players can ignore this and go straight in to fight with the big boys.

I think its nice to not make things compulsory, but occassionally give ppl a choice.

Remember too, you guys are all still here -so you are not a valid sample for a survey on whether some new players get disillusioned and buggar off never to play another game. Some will say 'that' their choice' - but think about virtually everty sporting code you can think of - they provide a way up for the inexperienced.

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Wintermute
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Post#5 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:25 pm

I have a feeling this is in reference to the ass beating i'm taking in No Frills XVIII from Captain Blood. Though not a new player, I'm definitely quite rusty and have never played as the Crystals but am in no way complaining about the slaughter.

Not sure that a newbie game is the answer. I think maybe a by invite only game for the more experienced players would be a better solution for those who feel like they're just beating up a Newbie. I haven't seen any Newbies complaining about the beatings they're taking. It also seems like the games with more mods attract the more experienced players for obvious reasons.

Well just my 2¢

Winter

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Havok
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Post#6 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:12 pm

Wintermute wrote:I have a feeling this is in reference to the ass beating i'm taking in No Frills XVIII from Captain Blood. Though not a new player, I'm definitely quite rusty and have never played as the Crystals but am in no way complaining about the slaughter.

Not sure that a newbie game is the answer. I think maybe a by invite only game for the more experienced players would be a better solution for those who feel like they're just beating up a Newbie. I haven't seen any Newbies complaining about the beatings they're taking. It also seems like the games with more mods attract the more experienced players for obvious reasons.

Well just my 2¢

Winter
I've seen games in the past where newbs are paired off with a more experienced player. Have seen that method work, and have seen it fail.
I figure if someone wants to know how to play a game, they're going to take the steps and time to learn it. VGAP is not something you're going to master in a week, month or year. It takes a lot of hands on and a lot of discussion. :)
Last edited by Havok on Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards,
][avok

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FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#7 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:57 pm

During the first couple of months that I was on this site I had similar discussions with ][avok. I asked him about a game where you pair up a noob and an old hand so you can pick up some pointers. I even had a name for it......"Two to Tango", this never got off the ground, I hope not just because of the name :wink: He told me the same thing then that he just said now. At the time I thought it perhaps a little narrow minded, a bit of the "I had to work for it, so do you". But now I realise this is not entirely the case. I still have a lot to learn, obviously, but there are 4 things that I have found most helpful.

1) Access the many guides and strategies both here and on Donovan's site.

2) Read the forums. Go back and look through all the threads and read the ones that interest you. Then read the others as subjects tend to meander a bit. There is a fair chance that someone may have already asked your question.

3) Participate in the forum discussions. Can be a bit daunting at first. There is a bit of trash talk flying around but it is all light hearted and all in fun. You will find people will be very happy to help with info where they can.

4) Most importantly play games. Try not to join too many. How many you can handle is entirely up to you but allow yourself time to put a reasonable amount of effort into the ones you choose. If you want to get good then put some thought into what you are doing and learn from the results.

The best way is to just get in and learn, if you make mistakes there will always be more games.

As I said I still have a lot to learn but these things seem to be working for me so far.
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

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Cherek
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Post#8 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:45 pm

FLETCH, you have hit the nail on the head.

Read the forums, if there is something you don't understand ask a question. For the most part, you'll get your answer and somethings you'll start a discussion that may go on for several pages. After all, we all have our own opinions on how something should be played and sometime we don't agree with each other.

One thing I'd like to add, you might want to pick one or two races that you want to learn play and play them. In my opinion, if you are playing three different races in three games you're not learn anything about the races.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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Cherek
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Post#9 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:50 pm

One more thing, don't join games with a bunch on add-ons. Stick with the No Frills (Vanilla) games to start out with.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#10 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:11 pm

In addition to Cherek's point regarding different races.

Regarding 3 games 3 different races.

An alternative to 3 games same race:
Get started in game1.
When game1 gets going, when you end up in a fight,
look for game2 and pickup the race you're fighting.
When game2 gets going, when you end up in a fight,
look for game3 and pickup the race you're fighting.

There is merit to both methods.
Cherek's is one of dive in and concentrate on the one race.
A good method for some.

My alternative, is one of learning what you can do and what your
enemy can do.

Regardless of which method is chosen, don't start all three games
at the same time. You're liable to make the same mistakes early
in all three games. Give 10-20 turns gap between games so that
you can try something see how it is working, adjust for next game.

Another reason for staggering games is workload.
Early on, 3 games are easy because there is little to do.
Later, 3 games at turn 60 get to be a lot of work if you're successful.

One of the reasons I prefer playing different races is due to the length
of games. There are 11 races and each game lasts from three months
to two years depending upon turn frequency. You may find that one
race fits your playstyle and another doesn't.

I prefer cloakers and generally avoid the carrier races.
I loathe the borg due to the workload.
Crystals are spiders of a different color altogether.
Privateer is fun, but lots of work to play well.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Havok
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Post#11 » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:38 pm

Say your prayer's at night....


And remember what Patton said after he defeated Rommel.... "I READ YOUR BOOK!!!"

:twisted:
Regards,
][avok

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#12 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:00 am

one very positive thing about a restriction of players is the fact, that a new player is more likely to drop as on who plays on the same server for quite some time....
have fun!

hennef

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Cardno
Posts: 3706
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Post#13 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:40 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:FLETCH, you have hit the nail on the head.

Read the forums, if there is something you don't understand ask a question. For the most part, you'll get your answer and somethings you'll start a discussion that may go on for several pages. After all, we all have our own opinions on how something should be played and sometime we don't agree with each other.

One thing I'd like to add, you might want to pick one or two races that you want to learn play and play them. In my opinion, if you are playing three different races in three games you're not learn anything about the races.
I'm a slow learner and i played the lizards exclusively for three years - i wasn't playing that whole time, i was pretty on and off, but that's all i played. i'm not sure how good i really am at that race, and probably am really enjoying playing other races which i may be better at, and maybe prefer, but playing that one race did help me to get better quicker than trying a whole lot, so i agree with Cherek (it has to happen one day)...

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Havok
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Post#14 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:02 am

Cardno wrote:
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:FLETCH, you have hit the nail on the head.

Read the forums, if there is something you don't understand ask a question. For the most part, you'll get your answer and somethings you'll start a discussion that may go on for several pages. After all, we all have our own opinions on how something should be played and sometime we don't agree with each other.

One thing I'd like to add, you might want to pick one or two races that you want to learn play and play them. In my opinion, if you are playing three different races in three games you're not learn anything about the races.
I'm a slow learner and i played the lizards exclusively for three years - i wasn't playing that whole time, i was pretty on and off, but that's all i played. i'm not sure how good i really am at that race, and probably am really enjoying playing other races which i may be better at, and maybe prefer, but playing that one race did help me to get better quicker than trying a whole lot, so i agree with Cherek (it has to happen one day)...
Play what you like.

Lots of people assume I play the Robot's exclusively. Truth be told, I didn't play the Robots for the first time until 2 years ago, and I've been playing since 91.

Everyone goes at their own pace in this game. It is a good idea to mix it up, but there's no problems playing what you like either IMOP.
Regards,
][avok

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#15 » Tue Aug 15, 2006 7:19 am

Many nice points, especially about what to do if you are a newbie and want to get some experience.

My point was, that if the experience of the players differs to much it disturb the gameplay in many ways.

It usually start with the way the players build. Some are allowed to build to many and to huge ships and others build to few and to small. No one to blame, but the balance of the game are already disturbed.

Other much disturbing happenings are "strange" fighting. An example might be robot rushing rebel and killing him loosing close to nothing.

I don´t believe much can be learned from such experiences and it make the games less interesting for all who participate.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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