Use of Kill Race is crapping the games....

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Death's Head
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Use of Kill Race is crapping the games....

Post#1 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:16 pm

I'm not sure how many games Kill Race is being used in when a player drops, but I have some questions and comments on the use of this Utility.

In game Daily Destruction 3, the first race to drop was the Empire who happened to be my neighbor at the time. Kill Race was used and Poooof all ships and planets erased to dust, no booty for me. All in the name of opening the ship que?

Next the Privateer is waxed by the Borg and the privateer drops the game. Kill Race is used, pooof away goes any booty for the Borg and neighbor Crystal. All in the name of opening the ship que?!?

Now the Colonial drops and Kill Race is used again!! :shock: POOOF, there goes any booty and PB points for the Robot who could have taken it if left alone.

In my opinion this game has been trashed and now there are huge areas of space where once there were ships and colonised planets. Not to mention the fact that the ship limit has been pushed 3 times and other players who don't plan for ship limit and RECYCLE Small Deeps for PB points get open ship slots that would not have been there if the dropped races were left alone.

To add salt to the wound I had to use 17 of my hard earned PBs to build my ships last turn since limit was reached. Now another 27 slots will be opened because the Colonial was KILLED OFF by KILL RACE. :evil:

The Fascist player who has 7 bases to my 11 has more ships than me and no PBs. I'll bet he didn't recycle a single ship. He now has that many ships because of the use of Kill Race and the pushing out of the ship limit three times.

I have half a mind to drop the game and let the Lizard be Kill Raced. Then the ship que could be opened up again when the 107 ships I have go POOOOOF. :rage:


Rant Off ---- Time for a :beer:
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Havok
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Re: Use of Kill Race is crapping the games....

Post#2 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:26 pm

Death's Head wrote:I'm not sure how many games Kill Race is being used in when a player drops, but I have some questions and comments on the use of this Utility.

In game Daily Destruction 3, the first race to drop was the Empire who happened to be my neighbor at the time. Kill Race was used and Poooof all ships and planets erased to dust, no booty for me. All in the name of opening the ship que?

Next the Privateer is waxed by the Borg and the privateer drops the game. Kill Race is used, pooof away goes any booty for the Borg and neighbor Crystal. All in the name of opening the ship que?!?

Now the Colonial drops and Kill Race is used again!! :shock: POOOF, there goes any booty and PB points for the Robot who could have taken it if left alone.

In my opinion this game has been trashed and now there are huge areas of space where once there were ships and colonised planets. Not to mention the fact that the ship limit has been pushed 3 times and other players who don't plan for ship limit and RECYCLE Small Deeps for PB points get open ship slots that would not have been there if the dropped races were left alone.

To add salt to the wound I had to use 17 of my hard earned PBs to build my ships last turn since limit was reached. Now another 27 slots will be opened because the Colonial was KILLED OFF by KILL RACE. :evil:

The Fascist player who has 7 bases to my 11 has more ships than me and no PBs. I'll bet he didn't recycle a single ship. He now has that many ships because of the use of Kill Race and the pushing out of the ship limit three times.

I have half a mind to drop the game and let the Lizard be Kill Raced. Then the ship que could be opened up again when the 107 ships I have go POOOOOF. :rage:


Rant Off ---- Time for a :beer:
107 ships? Are you filling the que with junk ships so you can recycle them and free get PBP's? :wink: I would have a complaint about that if that's going on. That's not playing the game, that's playing the system.

I have gone killrace crazy in this game. Why? Because there are no computer players in these DD games. The object is not to leave a bunch of junk for easy pickings and creating barriers between other races. The object is to fight to the death... daily.

That's my take on it.

Wish I could have a :beer:, but I'm at work for another 7 hours.
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][avok

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Death's Head
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Post#3 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:37 pm

Well I guess that explains it. As for the use of recycling Small Deeps each turn I would have to argue that it is playing the game within game mechanics and is also recommended in many articles and help docs. You build the small deeps as you push your SB tech levels and recycle the the next turn.

This isn't "cheating" since it is available to any player in the game and many players use the technique. If it wasn't supposed to be done, then it would not be part of the game mechanics.

Have to run, the wife wants to go for a walkabout.... :D
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Post#4 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:51 pm

Death's Head wrote:Well I guess that explains it. As for the use of recycling Small Deeps each turn I would have to argue that it is playing the game within game mechanics and is also recommended in many articles and help docs. You build the small deeps as you push your SB tech levels and recycle the the next turn.

This isn't "cheating" since it is available to any player in the game and many players use the technique. If it wasn't supposed to be done, then it would not be part of the game mechanics.

Have to run, the wife wants to go for a walkabout.... :D
I agree, it's not cheating. But IMOP, it's a lazy and cheap tactic. It emphasizes the use of the games limitations instead of using military strategy to play the game. This is for better or worse an exploit and by product of the way the game is designed. It's not there because Tim designed it as a feature. A feature is the Cyborg Chunnel, or the Loki uncloaking cloaked ships. I'm not pointing a finger at you or anything like that. I respect your point of view. That's just how I feel about it.
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Cherek
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Post#5 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:14 pm

You know in PHost, you can stop the "build cheat ships not and recycle them later" by using the PAL build point system and setting the "PALRecyclingPer10KT" to zero.

I just couldn't resist another one of those "PHost advantages over THost." :twisted:
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Wintermute
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Post#6 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:20 pm

Well back to the killrace, I had the pleasure of battling a race to the point they quit. problem is as i was cleaning up, taking the spoils, getting the pb's they were killed off. Now i can't get the little token colonist on the conquored planets, pb's or the occasional captured frieghter besides causing havok (you like that) on the build queue. I'd like to see an announcement or a request before running it. At least to save me the gas of dragging baseships across the cluster in pursuit of the mighty empire probe. :)

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Post#7 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:23 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:You know in PHost, you can stop the "build cheat ships not and recycle them later" by using the PAL build point system and setting the "PALRecyclingPer10KT" to zero.

I just couldn't resist another one of those "PHost advantages over THost." :twisted:
FROM THIS POINT FORWARD ALL GAMES WILL NOW BE BUILT AND RUN WITH PHOST!!! :ididwhat:
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][avok

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Post#8 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:24 pm

Wintermute wrote:Well back to the killrace, I had the pleasure of battling a race to the point they quit. problem is as i was cleaning up, taking the spoils, getting the pb's they were killed off. Now i can't get the little token colonist on the conquored planets, pb's or the occasional captured frieghter besides causing havok (you like that) on the build queue. I'd like to see an announcement or a request before running it. At least to save me the gas of dragging baseships across the cluster in pursuit of the mighty empire probe. :)
I have no problem with that and in hindsight should have probably said something before nuking them. My bad.
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Olyrin
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Post#9 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:27 pm

On the point of military strategy in the game. Which military school teaches that two ships should battle it out while the rest of the fleet waits for them to finish their fight before they join in?

I’m with Death’s Head. VGAP is more like an improved board game than a military simulation. The recycle tactic is just a part of the game.
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Post#10 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:41 pm

Olyrin wrote:On the point of military strategy in the game. Which military school teaches that two ships should battle it out while the rest of the fleet waits for them to finish their fight before they join in?

I’m with Death’s Head. VGAP is more like an improved board game than a military simulation. The recycle tactic is just a part of the game.
That's why we have FHOST 8) Send in the fighters!

Speaking of the ship engagement. I tried to get a Tactical VCR2 game going several months ago and not one person joined it. I've been told that TacVCR2 is like the old Killing Floor mod on steroids.

If you want to learn more about it, you can find out more about it at the authors website http://thewarroom.tripod.com/

Anyone here ever used it?
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Cherek
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Post#11 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:42 pm

Havok wrote:FROM THIS POINT FORWARD ALL GAMES WILL NOW BE BUILT AND RUN WITH PHOST!!! :ididwhat:
That would make Enemy#1 and myself happy (believe or not, I do like to play THost from time to time), but what about all of your other players? That would mean that they would have to do some reading or a whole lot of typing to ask all their questions, which I wouldn't mind answering for them.
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Cherek
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Post#12 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:51 pm

I say, if a player drops out of the game for five turn or fails to submit a turn for five turns, NUKE'EM! Let the other player earn their money, supplies, minerals like every other player in the game, not just because they where lucky and was next to a player that quit.
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Post#13 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:52 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:I say, if a player drops out of the game for five turn or fails to submit a turn for five turns, NUKE'EM! Let the other player earn their money, supplies, minerals like every other player in the game, not just because they where lucky and was next to a player that quit.
I have similar feelings and am not a big fan of the computer players.
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Death's Head
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Post#14 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:18 pm

Olyrin wrote:On the point of military strategy in the game. Which military school teaches that two ships should battle it out while the rest of the fleet waits for them to finish their fight before they join in?

I’m with Death’s Head. VGAP is more like an improved board game than a military simulation. The recycle tactic is just a part of the game.

Yup, if the feature wasn't meant to be used as we are discussing, Tim could have left out the PB reward for recycling of ships and only provided them for combat kills. As I said earlier, it is a way to bank points to get the ship you want and need later in the game. As you build tech on your starbases, you then build better teched ships that you use for combat. It's no different then building mines and factories to get the minerals and supplies you need in the game.

As for it being a lazy tactic, IMO most players are too lazy or uniformed to use the feature to gain a better fleet and therefore a better empire. I am very suprised on how few people actually take the time to build a Small Deep one turn and recycle it the next.
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Death's Head
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Post#15 » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:27 pm

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:I say, if a player drops out of the game for five turn or fails to submit a turn for five turns, NUKE'EM! Let the other player earn their money, supplies, minerals like every other player in the game, not just because they where lucky and was next to a player that quit.
That is quite unfair for the person who was pounding the quitter, since had the two continued to fight the assets would have gone to the person who ran the other out of the game, otherwise he wouldn't have quit. If you get my drift. :D


Havok said: "I have similar feelings and am not a big fan of the computer players."

I hear you on the computer players Havok!! I hate the Q-player with a passion as it cheats terribly by feeding itself fuel and reading host info. I have always been suprised that someone in the VGAP community never came up with a viable C-player and many times wished that I was more computer savvy in the software field. :)
Death's Head (Your Worst Nightmare)

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