You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.....

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anubis
Posts: 374

You are part of the Rebel Alliance and a traitor.....

Post#1 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:00 pm

Thanks to some good information from several of the people around, I have a rough outline for a 3 vs. 3 vs. 2 scenario.

It would basically have the following form:

3 teams of 2 or 3 players each. The game would be played with Thost or with Thost999 depending on if The Killing Floor works with 999. Obviously TKF would be used. A modified ship list would be used, along with a few addons that I am writing for this.

The universe for this would be modeled after the StarWars universe. The races and fleets would be adjusted, but I am leaving them here in the original VGAP to show the race abilities.

Team A would be the Rebel Alliance: The Feds, the Birds, and the Rebels

Basic concept: Empire consists of three sub-empires, all are closely allied and able to freely trade anything. Rebellion consists of 2 overt and 1 covert sub-empires. The overt pieces may trade freely, but if the covert piece is caught supporting the other two, they lose their covert status. The pirates are the wild-card. They are out for themselves and themselves only.

Rebel Alliance:

Rebels:
The Rebels (player 10) represent the main force of the Rebel Alliance. They are the ones in direct conflict with the Empire. They are always a target for the Empire. Direct, in your face action.

Birds:
The Birds are the special forces of the rebel alliance. Fast, nimble, always on the move. Indirect, behind the lines type of force. They are also the mine layers for the fleet (see section on mines).

Feds:
Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole.

Galactic Empire:

Empire:
The empire (player 8) represents the primary fleet of the Galactic empire. Big, mean, direct.

Fascists:
Empire terror squads. They go around making sure everyone is doing what they are told. Some amount of special forces type stuff as well, but really the brute squad.

Robots:
Logistics and support. Their job is to create fighters and mine layers (see section on mines)

Pirates

Privateers:
Nothing really has changed. They are liked by noone and feared by anyone that can’t cloak!

Crystals:
They are a group of pirates that managed to get a hold of an Imperial Interdiction Cruiser. They reverse engineered the gravity well generator to create a miniature version that can fit in a mine. Ships caught by it burn fuel during the deceleration phase and have to use fuel to even keep up life support. (See section on mines).

Mines:

Mine fields in this game are different from standard VGAP. Only mine layers can drop mines. They are still formed from torps, but only a mine layer can lay mines. If any other ship sets a “Lay Mines” or “Lay Web Mines” mission, it will be changed to “exploration” before the mine field is dropped.

In addition, the mine hit percentage has been raised for regular mines, but the decay rate has been dramatically raised. If you drop a mine field, there is a good chance something will hit it, but at the same time, you will lose your entire mine field in only a couple of turns. In addition, MSC has been disabled. If you drop a mine field, those torps are gone! Mine fields then are a much more tactical decision. You cannot just blanket your entire empire with mine fields, but when you do use one, it will be painful for your enemies! Also, by limiting the mine laying to specific ships (which will not be very good at combat!) taking out your enemies mine layers is a valuable tactic.

Web mines work similarly, but not identically. Their decay is slower, but still significant. (the crystals are pirates in this, they should be mobile). Also, the fuel drain has been increased. Getting stuck in a web for just a couple of turns will drain your tanks dry!

Capture:

If the privateer or the crystals attempt to capture an enemy ship, the crew on that ship will fight back. Depending on the ship type, the crew is classified as “civilian”, “navy” or “elite”. Civilians never fight back, they surrender the minute the pirate walks through the airlock. “Navy” ships have a chance to surrender, if they do, the tow-capture works as normal. “Elite” crews always fight.

During the fight, the pirates fight the crew of the defending ship. The crews of ALL pirate ships that have a specific f/c that are at the starting location of the tow will participate. Casualties are determined by comparing the relative size of the attacking force vs the defending force (bigger is better), the type of crew fighting (Elite is better) and the type of ship being boarded (some ships have anti-intruder defenses). If the pirates manage to kill off the crew of the ship being boarded, they get it, and all remaining pirates are split evenly among all pirate ships in the location.

If the pirate race tows the ship back to a starbase for a “force surrender”, the resources of the starbase make the battle not needed. This still works as in regular VGAP.

Combat:

Combat in this game is done with The Killing Floor. As a result, fleets of smaller ships can destroy a few bigger ones. The ship list is designed around this concept so chose carefully. Do you really want 1 big ship or would 3 small ones do better!

Goals:

Rebel Alliance:

Destory the emperor. At the start of the game, The empire (race 8) will have one very large, very tough ship. The goal of the rebellion is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Galatic Empire:

Destroy the flagship of the Rebellion. The rebels (race 10) will have one sneaky, fast ship. The goal of the Empire is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Pirates:
Survive and grow to finally reduce the galaxy to anarchy. If the pirates are still alive when either the Rebellion or Empire falls, their goal is to wipe the survivor out. If they do, they win. If not, then either the Rebellion or the Empire wins.


Discoveries:

Like the Arena game from BANE & Matt Clouser, not all ships are available to everyone at the start. Unlike Arena, you do not get the ships from various “Phases”. You have to research them. By setting plantary F/Cs to certain values, you will spend credits and/or minerals on research to get research points. You will then make breaktroughs that are semi-random (the more points you have, the more likely you will make a breakthrough). Each breaktrough translates into either a new ship, a modification to an existing ship (more beams, more torps, etc.) or a new ability (these are a surprise!). Each breakthrough also resets your research points to 0.

If a ship hull is modified from a breakthrough, existing ships can be “retrofitted” at a friendly starbase. When a certain FC is set, and the planet has the appropriate stock of the item in question, the ship will gain the additional tubes, beams, etc. This is different from the Fed’s Super Refit in that the TYPE of beam or tube cannot be changed (nor can the engines ever be changed from a breaktrough refit).

Any ship breakthrough that is not related to the number of beams or torps (i.e. more fighter bays, higher mass, etc) is automatically applied to all ships instantly (basically because THOST can’t support the same ship having different masses!).

This is still very rough, but what do you guys think? Would people be interested in playing?

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warpedboard
Posts: 555

Post#2 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 5:13 pm

Definitely sounds interesting! I like the ship research idea -- nice modification of the Arena shiplist concept (similar to what I've been mulling over for my next scenario, in fact -- but even better. Mind if I use some of your ideas there?). I'm very interested in seeing how this one fleshes out (and anything I can do to help, let me know)...

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anubis
Posts: 374

Post#3 » Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:21 pm

warpedboard wrote:Definitely sounds interesting! I like the ship research idea -- nice modification of the Arena shiplist concept (similar to what I've been mulling over for my next scenario, in fact -- but even better. Mind if I use some of your ideas there?). I'm very interested in seeing how this one fleshes out (and anything I can do to help, let me know)...
Thanks! No, I have no problem at all if you want to use any idea I have, just as long as I get to play in the resulting game!

Also, TKF does work with Host999

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Cherek
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Post#4 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:31 am

Question about the Feds. You said "Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole.", are you including the Rebels or Bird ship being towed to a Fed starbase as an option to allow the Feds to be attacked?
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The line above is false.

Cherek

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anubis
Posts: 374

Post#5 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:34 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:Question about the Feds. You said "Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole.", are you including the Rebels or Bird ship being towed to a Fed starbase as an option to allow the Feds to be attacked?
I am not sure yet. Basically, I want it to be the situation where the Empire has to have reasonable "proof" of the traitorous actions of the Fed race before they can be attacked. The human players will obviously know that the Feds are on the Rebellion side, but they have to "catch them in the act". I would say that if a Fed ship is towing a Rebel/Bird ship and the Empire sees it, that would not necessarily indicate treason.

Perhaps the trick is to make it a sliding scale. Certain actions will raise the "traitor level" others will reduce it. When it crosses some threshold, the Feds are declared traitors to the Empire and are then hostile.

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Cherek
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Post#6 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:46 am

About the Pirates, are both races considered "Mine Layers" or will just the Tholians be the "Mine Layers"?
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Cherek

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Cherek
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Post#7 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 10:55 am

I think the best approach would be the "sliding scale". All the Feds would have to is build a Lokis at the starbase and you'll never "catch them red handed". One option would be turn off Loki decloak.

*edited*
But turning off the Loki decloak would also make it really easy for the Pirates.
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The line above is false.

Cherek

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anubis
Posts: 374

Post#8 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:24 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:About the Pirates, are both races considered "Mine Layers" or will just the Tholians be the "Mine Layers"?
No, all races will be able to BUILD mine laying ships. It is a property of certain ships, not certain races.

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anubis
Posts: 374

Post#9 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 11:25 am

Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:I think the best approach would be the "sliding scale". All the Feds would have to is build a Lokis at the starbase and you'll never "catch them red handed". One option would be turn off Loki decloak.

*edited*
But turning off the Loki decloak would also make it really easy for the Pirates.
Yeah, I am thinking that a sliding scale will be the best. One criteria could be "for each distinct Fed Hull in Rebel/Bird possession that is discovered by the Empire, the traitor scale goes up by X".

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anubis
Posts: 374

Version 2

Post#10 » Thu Apr 26, 2007 4:25 pm

I added some information about the Rebellion fleets and fleet upgrades.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to some good information from several of the people around, I have a rough outline for a 3 vs. 3 vs. 2 scenario.

It would basically have the following form:

3 teams of 2 or 3 players each. The game would be played with Thost999 and The Killing Floor. A modified ship list would be used, along with a few addons that I am writing for this.

Unlike most VGAP games, each race would have a smaller number of ships they would be able to build. We all know that a lot of the ships in the list are not worth much, so each race would basically have 3-5 warship, 1-2 freighters, 1-2 alchemy type ships, and possibly 1-2 special type ships. In addition, not all of these ships would be available from the beginning of the game. Many of the hulls would have to be researched (see Research).

The universe for this would be modeled after the StarWars universe. The races and fleets would be adjusted, but I am leaving them here in the original VGAP to show the race abilities.

Team A would be the Rebel Alliance: The Feds, the Birds, and the Rebels
Team B would be the Galactic Empire: The Empire, The Klingons, and the Robots
Team C would be a pirate alliance: The Privateer and the Crystals


Basic concept: Empire consists of three sub-empires, all are closely allied and able to freely trade anything. Rebellion consists of 2 overt and 1 covert sub-empires. The overt pieces may trade freely, but if the covert piece is caught supporting the other two, they lose their covert status. The pirates are the wild-card. They are out for themselves and themselves only.

Rebel Alliance:

Rebels:
The Rebels (player 10) represent the main force of the Rebel Alliance. They are the ones in direct conflict with the Empire. They are always a target for the Empire. Direct, in your face action. Their ships are primarily designed for direct fighting against the Empire. Emphasis is on firepower and ship cost (speed and maneuverability cannot be simulated in VGAP even with TKF, so I am saying that the Rebels will have a large number of smaller ships). They cannot build mine laying ships but can acquire them from their Bird division.

Preliminary ship list

Starting Ships:
CR90 Corellian Corvette: 2 beam Light Cruiser
YT-1300 Armed Transport: 2 beam/1torp with a reasonable cargo hold
Nebula-D Frigate: 5 beam, 3 torp light frigate

Research Hulls:

MC30c Class Calamari Cruiser: 4 beam 4 bays light carrier
MC80 Class Calamari Cruiser: 6 beam 6 bay medium carrier

Research Ship Mods:
Corellian GunShip: Adds 3 beams to the CR90
Gunship plating: Adds 150 KTs mass to the CR90
Missle Corvettes: Adds 1 torp tube to the Gunship
Smuggler’s Holds: Adds a few hundred cargo to the YT-1300
Quad lasers: Adds 2 beams to the YT-1300
A Hyperdrive that actually works: Gives the YT-1300 HYP abilities.
Medical Frigates: The Nebula-D frigate can replenish crew away from starbases
Enhanecd Frigate Turbolasers: Adds 2 beams to the Nebula-D
Enhanced Frigate Torp Tubles: Adds 1 torps to the Nebula-D
Automatic Light Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC30c
Automatic Heavy Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC80
Advanced Turbolasers: Adds 1 beam to the MC80

Birds:
The Birds are the special forces of the rebel alliance. Fast, nimble, always on the move. Indirect, behind the lines type of force. They are also the mine layers for the fleet (see section on mines). Their ships are primarily designed for hit and fade runs. Often disguised as neutral or even Imperial ships (simulated with cloaking for the VGAP universe) Bird ships are the intelligence gathering and surgical strike force of the Rebel Alliance.

Starting Ships:

CR51 Mine Layer: 1 Beam, 1 Torp, Can lay mines
Y-Wing LongBow: 1 Beam, 1 torp, HYP ship
Sorosuub3000: 2 Beam, 1 torp disguised (cloaking) ship

Research Hulls
DX14 Deep Insertion: 2 Beam, disguised (cloaking) Gravatonic scout
Dreadnaught Class Heavy Cruiser: 7 beams 3 torp Disguised (cloaking) Cruiser
Neutron Star-classBulk Carrier: 2 beam, 2 bay Disguised (Cloaking) light carrier

Hull Upgrades:

Advanced Mines: Increases cargo hold of CR51
Advanced CR51: Adds 1 beam and 1 torp to the CR51
Conformal Fuel Tanks: Increase Fuel tank for Longbow
Quad Lasers: Adds 2 beams to the Sorosuub
Advanced Light Torps: Adds 1 torp to the Sorosuub
External Tubes: Adds 1 torp to the DX14
Advanced Heavy Torps: Adds 2 torps to the Dreadnaught
Fighter Logistics: Adds 2 bays to the Bulk Carrier
Advanced hull plating: Adds 150 mass to the bulk carrier
Super Dense Fuel Tanks: increased fuel tank for the CR51


Feds:
Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole. Their ships are a mix of Imperial and Rebel fleets, reflecting their supposed neutrality. Although they lack the firepower of the high end Calamari ships, they are not weak. Names to come:

Starting Hulls
2 beam scout
2 beam 1 torp light destroyer
4 beam 2 torp missle cruiser

Research Hulls:

5 beam 3 torp heavy cruiser
6 beam 4 bay medium carrier

Hull Upgrades:

TBD, but similar to the Birds/Rebels

Galactic Empire:

Empire:
The empire (player 8) represents the primary fleet of the Galactic empire. Big, mean, direct.

Fascists:
Empire terror squads. They go around making sure everyone is doing what they are told. Some amount of special forces type stuff as well, but really the brute squad.

Robots:
Logistics and support. Their job is to create fighters and mine layers (see section on mines)

Pirates

Privateers:
Nothing really has changed. They are liked by noone and feared by anyone that can’t cloak!

Crystals:
They are a group of pirates that managed to get a hold of an Imperial Interdiction Cruiser. They reverse engineered the gravity well generator to create a miniature version that can fit in a mine. Ships caught by it burn fuel during the deceleration phase and have to use fuel to even keep up life support. (See section on mines).

Mines:

Mine fields in this game are different from standard VGAP. Only mine layers can drop mines. They are still formed from torps, but only a mine layer can lay mines. If any other ship sets a “Lay Mines” or “Lay Web Mines” mission, it will be changed to “exploration” before the mine field is dropped.

In addition, the mine hit percentage has been raised for regular mines, but the decay rate has been dramatically raised. If you drop a mine field, there is a good chance something will hit it, but at the same time, you will lose your entire mine field in only a couple of turns. In addition, MSC has been disabled. If you drop a mine field, those torps are gone! Mine fields then are a much more tactical decision. You cannot just blanket your entire empire with mine fields, but when you do use one, it will be painful for your enemies! Also, by limiting the mine laying to specific ships (which will not be very good at combat!) taking out your enemies mine layers is a valuable tactic.

Web mines work similarly, but not identically. Their decay is slower, but still significant. (the crystals are pirates in this, they should be mobile). Also, the fuel drain has been increased. Getting stuck in a web for just a couple of turns will drain your tanks dry!

Capture:

If the privateer or the crystals attempt to capture an enemy ship, the crew on that ship will fight back. Depending on the ship type, the crew is classified as “civilian”, “navy” or “elite”. Civilians never fight back, they surrender the minute the pirate walks through the airlock. “Navy” ships have a chance to surrender, if they do, the tow-capture works as normal. “Elite” crews always fight.

During the fight, the pirates fight the crew of the defending ship. The crews of ALL pirate ships that have a specific f/c that are at the starting location of the tow will participate. Casualties are determined by comparing the relative size of the attacking force vs the defending force (bigger is better), the type of crew fighting (Elite is better) and the type of ship being boarded (some ships have anti-intruder defenses). If the pirates manage to kill off the crew of the ship being boarded, they get it, and all remaining pirates are split evenly among all pirate ships in the location.

If the pirate race tows the ship back to a starbase for a “force surrender”, the resources of the starbase make the battle not needed. This still works as in regular VGAP.

Combat:

Combat in this game is done with The Killing Floor. As a result, fleets of smaller ships can destroy a few bigger ones. The ship list is designed around this concept so chose carefully. Do you really want 1 big ship or would 3 small ones do better!

Goals:

Rebel Alliance:

Destory the emperor. At the start of the game, The empire (race 8) will have one very large, very tough ship. The goal of the rebellion is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Galatic Empire:

Destroy the flagship of the Rebellion. The rebels (race 10) will have one sneaky, fast ship. The goal of the Empire is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Pirates:
Survive and grow to finally reduce the galaxy to anarchy. If the pirates are still alive when either the Rebellion or Empire falls, their goal is to wipe the survivor out. If they do, they win. If not, then either the Rebellion or the Empire wins.


Discoveries:

Like the Arena game from BANE & Matt Clouser, not all ships are available to everyone at the start. Unlike Arena, you do not get the ships from various “Phases”. You have to research them. By setting plantary F/Cs to certain values, you will spend credits and/or minerals on research to get research points. You will then make breaktroughs that are semi-random (the more points you have, the more likely you will make a breakthrough). Each breaktrough translates into either a new ship, a modification to an existing ship (more beams, more torps, etc.) or a new ability (these are a surprise!). Each breakthrough also resets your research points to 0.

If a ship hull is modified from a breakthrough, existing ships can be “retrofitted” at a friendly starbase. When a certain FC is set, and the planet has the appropriate stock of the item in question, the ship will gain the additional tubes, beams, etc. This is different from the Fed’s Super Refit in that the TYPE of beam or tube cannot be changed (nor can the engines ever be changed from a breaktrough refit).

Any ship breakthrough that is not related to the number of beams or torps (i.e. more fighter bays, higher mass, etc) is automatically applied to all ships instantly (basically because THOST can’t support the same ship having different masses!).

This is still very rough, but what do you guys think? Would people be interested in playing?

User avatar
anubis
Posts: 374

Post#11 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:31 am

Added the Fed Mods, the flag ship, and an outline of the Empire Ships.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks to some good information from several of the people around, I have a rough outline for a 3 vs. 3 vs. 2 scenario.

It would basically have the following form:

3 teams of 2 or 3 players each. The game would be played with Thost999 and The Killing Floor. A modified ship list would be used, along with a few addons that I am writing for this.

Unlike most VGAP games, each race would have a smaller number of ships they would be able to build. We all know that a lot of the ships in the list are not worth much, so each race would basically have 3-5 warship, 1-2 freighters, 1-2 alchemy type ships, and possibly 1-2 special type ships. In addition, not all of these ships would be available from the beginning of the game. Many of the hulls would have to be researched (see Research).

The universe for this would be modeled after the StarWars universe. The races and fleets would be adjusted, but I am leaving them here in the original VGAP to show the race abilities.

Team A would be the Rebel Alliance: The Feds, the Birds, and the Rebels
Team B would be the Galactic Empire: The Empire, The Klingons, and the Robots
Team C would be a pirate alliance: The Privateer and the Crystals


Basic concept: Empire consists of three sub-empires, all are closely allied and able to freely trade anything. Rebellion consists of 2 overt and 1 covert sub-empires. The overt pieces may trade freely, but if the covert piece is caught supporting the other two, they lose their covert status. The pirates are the wild-card. They are out for themselves and themselves only.

Rebel Alliance:

Rebels:
The Rebels (player 10) represent the main force of the Rebel Alliance. They are the ones in direct conflict with the Empire. They are always a target for the Empire. Direct, in your face action. Their ships are primarily designed for direct fighting against the Empire. Emphasis is on firepower and ship cost (speed and maneuverability cannot be simulated in VGAP even with TKF, so I am saying that the Rebels will have a large number of smaller ships). They cannot build mine laying ships but can acquire them from their Bird division.

Preliminary ship list

Starting Ships:
CR90 Corellian Corvette: 2 beam Light Cruiser
YT-1300 Armed Transport: 2 beam/1torp with a reasonable cargo hold
Nebula-D Frigate: 5 beam, 3 torp light frigate

Research Hulls:

MC30c Class Calamari Cruiser: 4 beam 4 bays light carrier
MC80 Class Calamari Cruiser: 6 beam 6 bay medium carrier

Special Flag Ship:

5 beam, 2 torp Gravontic Super Disguised (Advanced Cloak) ship (but it can be Loki'ed or GD'ed). Large Fuel Tank.

Research Ship Mods:
Corellian GunShip: Adds 3 beams to the CR90
Gunship plating: Adds 150 KTs mass to the CR90
Missle Corvettes: Adds 1 torp tube to the Gunship
Smuggler’s Holds: Adds a few hundred cargo to the YT-1300
Quad lasers: Adds 2 beams to the YT-1300
A Hyperdrive that actually works: Gives the YT-1300 HYP abilities.
Medical Frigates: The Nebula-D frigate can replenish crew away from starbases
Enhanecd Frigate Turbolasers: Adds 2 beams to the Nebula-D
Enhanced Frigate Torp Tubles: Adds 1 torps to the Nebula-D
Automatic Light Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC30c
Automatic Heavy Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC80
Advanced Turbolasers: Adds 1 beam to the MC80

Birds:
The Birds are the special forces of the rebel alliance. Fast, nimble, always on the move. Indirect, behind the lines type of force. They are also the mine layers for the fleet (see section on mines). Their ships are primarily designed for hit and fade runs. Often disguised as neutral or even Imperial ships (simulated with cloaking for the VGAP universe) Bird ships are the intelligence gathering and surgical strike force of the Rebel Alliance.

Starting Ships:

CR51 Mine Layer: 1 Beam, 1 Torp, Can lay mines
Y-Wing LongBow: 1 Beam, 1 torp, HYP ship
Sorosuub3000: 2 Beam, 1 torp disguised (cloaking) ship

Research Hulls
DX14 Deep Insertion: 2 Beam, disguised (cloaking) Gravatonic scout
Dreadnaught Class Heavy Cruiser: 7 beams 3 torp Disguised (cloaking) Cruiser
Neutron Star-classBulk Carrier: 2 beam, 2 bay Disguised (Cloaking) light carrier

Hull Upgrades:

Advanced Mines: Increases cargo hold of CR51
Advanced CR51: Adds 1 beam and 1 torp to the CR51
Conformal Fuel Tanks: Increase Fuel tank for Longbow
Quad Lasers: Adds 2 beams to the Sorosuub
Advanced Light Torps: Adds 1 torp to the Sorosuub
External Tubes: Adds 1 torp to the DX14
Advanced Heavy Torps: Adds 2 torps to the Dreadnaught
Fighter Logistics: Adds 2 bays to the Bulk Carrier
Advanced hull plating: Adds 150 mass to the bulk carrier
Super Dense Fuel Tanks: increased fuel tank for the CR51


Feds:
Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole. Their ships are a mix of Imperial and Rebel fleets, reflecting their supposed neutrality. Although they lack the firepower of the high end Calamari ships, they are not weak. Names to come:

Starting Hulls
2 beam scout
2 beam 1 torp light destroyer
4 beam 2 torp missile cruiser

Research Hulls:

5 beam 3 torp heavy cruiser
6 beam 4 bay medium carrier

Hull Upgrades:

+1 torp to the scout
Bigger fuel tank for the scout
+3 beams for the missile cruiser
Low end Glory device for the light destroyer
1 beam 2 torps for the heavy cruiser
2 bays for the medium carrier
1 beam for the med carrier
+150 mass for the heavy cruiser
Loki device for the missile cruiser
Cloaking device for the scout
+1 engine for the scout (now it can tow)


Galactic Empire:

Empire:
The empire (player Cool represents the primary fleet of the Galactic empire. Big, mean, direct. Lead by the Emperor, their fleet is the finest in the galaxy. One on one, nothing can take out one of their heavy ships. But that comes at a cost. Nothing can match the cost of one of their ships either.

Starting Ships (names to come)

4 beam, 4 torp frigate
5 beam 4 bay escort carrier
6 beam 5 bay Victory Class Star Destroyer

Advanced Hulls

8 Beam 6 Bay Imperial Star Destroyer
9 beam 7 Bay Super Star Destroyer

Special Flag Ship: 10 Beam 10 Bay Death Star (but it only has tech 5 engines, and nothing can tow it).


Fascists:
Empire terror squads. They go around making sure everyone is doing what they are told. Some amount of special forces type stuff as well, but really the brute squad.

Robots:
Logistics and support. Their job is to create fighters and mine layers (see section on mines)

Pirates

Privateers:
Nothing really has changed. They are liked by noone and feared by anyone that can’t cloak!

Crystals:
They are a group of pirates that managed to get a hold of an Imperial Interdiction Cruiser. They reverse engineered the gravity well generator to create a miniature version that can fit in a mine. Ships caught by it burn fuel during the deceleration phase and have to use fuel to even keep up life support. (See section on mines).

Mines:

Mine fields in this game are different from standard VGAP. Only mine layers can drop mines. They are still formed from torps, but only a mine layer can lay mines. If any other ship sets a “Lay Mines” or “Lay Web Mines” mission, it will be changed to “exploration” before the mine field is dropped.

In addition, the mine hit percentage has been raised for regular mines, but the decay rate has been dramatically raised. If you drop a mine field, there is a good chance something will hit it, but at the same time, you will lose your entire mine field in only a couple of turns. In addition, MSC has been disabled. If you drop a mine field, those torps are gone! Mine fields then are a much more tactical decision. You cannot just blanket your entire empire with mine fields, but when you do use one, it will be painful for your enemies! Also, by limiting the mine laying to specific ships (which will not be very good at combat!) taking out your enemies mine layers is a valuable tactic.

Web mines work similarly, but not identically. Their decay is slower, but still significant. (the crystals are pirates in this, they should be mobile). Also, the fuel drain has been increased. Getting stuck in a web for just a couple of turns will drain your tanks dry!

Capture:

If the privateer or the crystals attempt to capture an enemy ship, the crew on that ship will fight back. Depending on the ship type, the crew is classified as “civilian”, “navy” or “elite”. Civilians never fight back, they surrender the minute the pirate walks through the airlock. “Navy” ships have a chance to surrender, if they do, the tow-capture works as normal. “Elite” crews always fight.

During the fight, the pirates fight the crew of the defending ship. The crews of ALL pirate ships that have a specific f/c that are at the starting location of the tow will participate. Casualties are determined by comparing the relative size of the attacking force vs the defending force (bigger is better), the type of crew fighting (Elite is better) and the type of ship being boarded (some ships have anti-intruder defenses). If the pirates manage to kill off the crew of the ship being boarded, they get it, and all remaining pirates are split evenly among all pirate ships in the location.

If the pirate race tows the ship back to a starbase for a “force surrender”, the resources of the starbase make the battle not needed. This still works as in regular VGAP.

Combat:

Combat in this game is done with The Killing Floor. As a result, fleets of smaller ships can destroy a few bigger ones. The ship list is designed around this concept so chose carefully. Do you really want 1 big ship or would 3 small ones do better!

Goals:

Rebel Alliance:

Destory the emperor. At the start of the game, The empire (race Cool will have one very large, very tough ship. The goal of the rebellion is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Galatic Empire:

Destroy the flagship of the Rebellion. The rebels (race 10) will have one sneaky, fast ship. The goal of the Empire is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Pirates:
Survive and grow to finally reduce the galaxy to anarchy. If the pirates are still alive when either the Rebellion or Empire falls, their goal is to wipe the survivor out. If they do, they win. If not, then either the Rebellion or the Empire wins.


Discoveries:

Like the Arena game from BANE & Matt Clouser, not all ships are available to everyone at the start. Unlike Arena, you do not get the ships from various “Phases”. You have to research them. By setting plantary F/Cs to certain values, you will spend credits and/or minerals on research to get research points. You will then make breaktroughs that are semi-random (the more points you have, the more likely you will make a breakthrough). Each breaktrough translates into either a new ship, a modification to an existing ship (more beams, more torps, etc.) or a new ability (these are a surprise!). Each breakthrough also resets your research points to 0.

If a ship hull is modified from a breakthrough, existing ships can be “retrofitted” at a friendly starbase. When a certain FC is set, and the planet has the appropriate stock of the item in question, the ship will gain the additional tubes, beams, etc. This is different from the Fed’s Super Refit in that the TYPE of beam or tube cannot be changed (nor can the engines ever be changed from a breaktrough refit).

Any ship breakthrough that is not related to the number of beams or torps (i.e. more fighter bays, higher mass, etc) is automatically applied to all ships instantly (basically because THOST can’t support the same ship having different masses!).

This is still very rough, but what do you guys think? Would people be interested in playing?

User avatar
anubis
Posts: 374

Post#12 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 9:52 pm

Added information about how neutral planets will be handled. This is a big change from traditional VGAP.

Also, does anyone have any comments? This is the first major VGAP scenario that I have designed, so I would appreciate any feedback you may have.
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Thanks to some good information from several of the people around, I have a rough outline for a 3 vs. 3 vs. 2 scenario.

It would basically have the following form:

3 teams of 2 or 3 players each. The game would be played with Thost999 and The Killing Floor. A modified ship list would be used, along with a few addons that I am writing for this.

Unlike most VGAP games, each race would have a smaller number of ships they would be able to build. We all know that a lot of the ships in the list are not worth much, so each race would basically have 3-5 warship, 1-2 freighters, 1-2 alchemy type ships, and possibly 1-2 special type ships. In addition, not all of these ships would be available from the beginning of the game. Many of the hulls would have to be researched (see Research).

The universe for this would be modeled after the StarWars universe. The races and fleets would be adjusted, but I am leaving them here in the original VGAP to show the race abilities.

Team A would be the Rebel Alliance: The Feds, the Birds, and the Rebels
Team B would be the Galactic Empire: The Empire, The Klingons, and the Robots
Team C would be a pirate alliance: The Privateer and the Crystals


Basic concept: Empire consists of three sub-empires, all are closely allied and able to freely trade anything. Rebellion consists of 2 overt and 1 covert sub-empires. The overt pieces may trade freely, but if the covert piece is caught supporting the other two, they lose their covert status. The pirates are the wild-card. They are out for themselves and themselves only.

Rebel Alliance:

Rebels:
The Rebels (player 10) represent the main force of the Rebel Alliance. They are the ones in direct conflict with the Empire. They are always a target for the Empire. Direct, in your face action. Their ships are primarily designed for direct fighting against the Empire. Emphasis is on firepower and ship cost (speed and maneuverability cannot be simulated in VGAP even with TKF, so I am saying that the Rebels will have a large number of smaller ships). They cannot build mine laying ships but can acquire them from their Bird division.

Preliminary ship list

Starting Ships:
CR90 Corellian Corvette: 2 beam Light Cruiser
YT-1300 Armed Transport: 2 beam/1torp with a reasonable cargo hold
Nebula-D Frigate: 5 beam, 3 torp light frigate

Research Hulls:

MC30c Class Calamari Cruiser: 4 beam 4 bays light carrier
MC80 Class Calamari Cruiser: 6 beam 6 bay medium carrier

Special Flag Ship:

5 beam, 2 torp Gravontic Super Disguised (Advanced Cloak) ship (but it can be Loki'ed or GD'ed). Large Fuel Tank.

Research Ship Mods:
Corellian GunShip: Adds 3 beams to the CR90
Gunship plating: Adds 150 KTs mass to the CR90
Missle Corvettes: Adds 1 torp tube to the Gunship
Smuggler’s Holds: Adds a few hundred cargo to the YT-1300
Quad lasers: Adds 2 beams to the YT-1300
A Hyperdrive that actually works: Gives the YT-1300 HYP abilities.
Medical Frigates: The Nebula-D frigate can replenish crew away from starbases
Enhanecd Frigate Turbolasers: Adds 2 beams to the Nebula-D
Enhanced Frigate Torp Tubles: Adds 1 torps to the Nebula-D
Automatic Light Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC30c
Automatic Heavy Fighter Loaders: Adds 2 bays to the MC80
Advanced Turbolasers: Adds 1 beam to the MC80

Birds:
The Birds are the special forces of the rebel alliance. Fast, nimble, always on the move. Indirect, behind the lines type of force. They are also the mine layers for the fleet (see section on mines). Their ships are primarily designed for hit and fade runs. Often disguised as neutral or even Imperial ships (simulated with cloaking for the VGAP universe) Bird ships are the intelligence gathering and surgical strike force of the Rebel Alliance.

Starting Ships:

CR51 Mine Layer: 1 Beam, 1 Torp, Can lay mines
Y-Wing LongBow: 1 Beam, 1 torp, HYP ship
Sorosuub3000: 2 Beam, 1 torp disguised (cloaking) ship

Research Hulls
DX14 Deep Insertion: 2 Beam, disguised (cloaking) Gravatonic scout
Dreadnaught Class Heavy Cruiser: 7 beams 3 torp Disguised (cloaking) Cruiser
Neutron Star-classBulk Carrier: 2 beam, 2 bay Disguised (Cloaking) light carrier

Hull Upgrades:

Advanced Mines: Increases cargo hold of CR51
Advanced CR51: Adds 1 beam and 1 torp to the CR51
Conformal Fuel Tanks: Increase Fuel tank for Longbow
Quad Lasers: Adds 2 beams to the Sorosuub
Advanced Light Torps: Adds 1 torp to the Sorosuub
External Tubes: Adds 1 torp to the DX14
Advanced Heavy Torps: Adds 2 torps to the Dreadnaught
Fighter Logistics: Adds 2 bays to the Bulk Carrier
Advanced hull plating: Adds 150 mass to the bulk carrier
Super Dense Fuel Tanks: increased fuel tank for the CR51


Feds:
Feds are an alliance of planets sympathetic to the Rebellion. They would be un-attackable by the Empire until either (1) the Empire catches a ship transfer between the Feds and the Rebels/Birds (which would be defined as a ship ID'ed by the Empire as Fed then being IDed as Rebellion or Birds) or (2) the Feds attack. They are the Rebel Alliance’s ace in the hole. Their ships are a mix of Imperial and Rebel fleets, reflecting their supposed neutrality. Although they lack the firepower of the high end Calamari ships, they are not weak. Names to come:

Starting Hulls
2 beam scout
2 beam 1 torp light destroyer
4 beam 2 torp missile cruiser

Research Hulls:

5 beam 3 torp heavy cruiser
6 beam 4 bay medium carrier

Hull Upgrades:

+1 torp to the scout
Bigger fuel tank for the scout
+3 beams for the missile cruiser
Low end Glory device for the light destroyer
1 beam 2 torps for the heavy cruiser
2 bays for the medium carrier
1 beam for the med carrier
+150 mass for the heavy cruiser
Loki device for the missile cruiser
Cloaking device for the scout
+1 engine for the scout (now it can tow)


Galactic Empire:

Empire:
The empire (player Cool represents the primary fleet of the Galactic empire. Big, mean, direct. Lead by the Emperor, their fleet is the finest in the galaxy. One on one, nothing can take out one of their heavy ships. But that comes at a cost. Nothing can match the cost of one of their ships either.

Starting Ships (names to come)

4 beam, 4 torp frigate
5 beam 4 bay escort carrier
6 beam 5 bay Victory Class Star Destroyer

Advanced Hulls

8 Beam 6 Bay Imperial Star Destroyer
9 beam 7 Bay Super Star Destroyer

Special Flag Ship: 10 Beam 10 Bay Death Star (but it only has tech 5 engines, and nothing can tow it).


Fascists:
Empire terror squads. They go around making sure everyone is doing what they are told. Some amount of special forces type stuff as well, but really the brute squad.

Robots:
Logistics and support. Their job is to create fighters and mine layers (see section on mines)

Pirates

Privateers:
Nothing really has changed. They are liked by noone and feared by anyone that can’t cloak!

Crystals:
They are a group of pirates that managed to get a hold of an Imperial Interdiction Cruiser. They reverse engineered the gravity well generator to create a miniature version that can fit in a mine. Ships caught by it burn fuel during the deceleration phase and have to use fuel to even keep up life support. (See section on mines).

Mines:

Mine fields in this game are different from standard VGAP. Only mine layers can drop mines. They are still formed from torps, but only a mine layer can lay mines. If any other ship sets a “Lay Mines” or “Lay Web Mines” mission, it will be changed to “exploration” before the mine field is dropped.

In addition, the mine hit percentage has been raised for regular mines, but the decay rate has been dramatically raised. If you drop a mine field, there is a good chance something will hit it, but at the same time, you will lose your entire mine field in only a couple of turns. In addition, MSC has been disabled. If you drop a mine field, those torps are gone! Mine fields then are a much more tactical decision. You cannot just blanket your entire empire with mine fields, but when you do use one, it will be painful for your enemies! Also, by limiting the mine laying to specific ships (which will not be very good at combat!) taking out your enemies mine layers is a valuable tactic.

Web mines work similarly, but not identically. Their decay is slower, but still significant. (the crystals are pirates in this, they should be mobile). Also, the fuel drain has been increased. Getting stuck in a web for just a couple of turns will drain your tanks dry!

Capture:

If the privateer or the crystals attempt to capture an enemy ship, the crew on that ship will fight back. Depending on the ship type, the crew is classified as “civilian”, “navy” or “elite”. Civilians never fight back, they surrender the minute the pirate walks through the airlock. “Navy” ships have a chance to surrender, if they do, the tow-capture works as normal. “Elite” crews always fight.

During the fight, the pirates fight the crew of the defending ship. The crews of ALL pirate ships that have a specific f/c that are at the starting location of the tow will participate. Casualties are determined by comparing the relative size of the attacking force vs the defending force (bigger is better), the type of crew fighting (Elite is better) and the type of ship being boarded (some ships have anti-intruder defenses). If the pirates manage to kill off the crew of the ship being boarded, they get it, and all remaining pirates are split evenly among all pirate ships in the location.

If the pirate race tows the ship back to a starbase for a “force surrender”, the resources of the starbase make the battle not needed. This still works as in regular VGAP.

Planets and Neutrals:

As the galaxy has been colonized for a long time, all the planets in the game are colonized. Rather than dropping clans on planets to gain them for your empire, instead you have to either diplomatically sway them to your cause, or conquer them. A planet that willing joins your forces will be loyal and productive. A planet that is conquered has to be garrisoned or it might revolt and join your opponent.

To implement this in VGAP, the game addon I am writing will keep track of three numbers – Imperial Loyalty, Rebellion Loyalty, and Pirate Loyalty. When one of these numbers reaches a threshold, the planet will convert from the neutral placeholder race and become a part of the empire it likes (the specific race it joins will depend upon which race put the most “effort” into that planet, and since GivePlanet will be used, the planets can transfer back and forth).

To influence a race, the player has to keep a ship in orbit around the planet. Every ship in the universe has a diplomatic officer who will influence the planetary leadership to you cause. At the end of each turn, the diplomatic officers will have a chance of either:

1) Greatly increasing the loyalty of the planet to your side while significantly reducing the loyalty of the planet to both of the other factions.
2) Increasing the loyalty of the planet to your side while slightly lowering the planet to both other factions
3) Slightly increasing the loyalty of the planet to your side
4) Committing a diplomatic faux pas and reducing your loyalty

The system will keep track of how many NET points (faux pas are reduced from your total) your particular race has done (even though the total loyalty of the planet is toward your team). When a planet reaches the threshold, it will convert to the player of that team that has the highest contribution. Note that a cloaked ship will not send its team to the surface (it would give away the ship’s position).

To conquer a planet, the player has two choices:

1) Traditional VGAP combat. If you burn the planet to the ground, it is yours. But you get it with one clan of course (and no starbase!)
2) The planet can surrender to you. If you have sufficient starships in orbit around a planet, the locals will see the futility of resistance and surrender to your empire. You get the planet with all the clans intact and if the neutral planet has a starbase, you get that too. The bad news is that the people won’t like you. If you ever leave the planet without a capital ship in orbit, the natives will revert back to neutral AND have their loyalty to your empire set to a very low number (basically making it impossible to ever get them to voluntarily join you again). You will have to set a F/C on a ship to get this type of conquering to happen.

While a planet is neutral, it will do several things.

1) It will build defense posts and a small number of factories. (it won’t build mines, as that would cause the entire universe to become mined out quickly).
2) It has the possibility of creating a starbase (this will come from the ingenuity of the population, i.e. doesn’t take cash or minerals).
3) The native population may create a local system patrol ship (a relatively small ship (like 2 beam 1 torp or so). Because we use TKF, a well established neutral may have a significant fleet. Any planet with at least 1 system patrol craft will attack any empire that enters the system. (Thus making a diplomatic conversion impossible). Note: building the FIRST system patrol craft will be a rare occurrence. Once a planet builds one, however, they know how and will be much more likely to build more.



Combat:

Combat in this game is done with The Killing Floor. As a result, fleets of smaller ships can destroy a few bigger ones. The ship list is designed around this concept so chose carefully. Do you really want 1 big ship or would 3 small ones do better!

Goals:

Rebel Alliance:

Destory the emperor. At the start of the game, The empire (race Cool will have one very large, very tough ship. The goal of the rebellion is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Galatic Empire:

Destroy the flagship of the Rebellion. The rebels (race 10) will have one sneaky, fast ship. The goal of the Empire is to destroy that ship. This ship is not one that can be built by anyone.

Pirates:
Survive and grow to finally reduce the galaxy to anarchy. If the pirates are still alive when either the Rebellion or Empire falls, their goal is to wipe the survivor out. If they do, they win. If not, then either the Rebellion or the Empire wins.


Discoveries:

Like the Arena game from BANE & Matt Clouser, not all ships are available to everyone at the start. Unlike Arena, you do not get the ships from various “Phases”. You have to research them. By setting plantary F/Cs to certain values, you will spend credits and/or minerals on research to get research points. You will then make breaktroughs that are semi-random (the more points you have, the more likely you will make a breakthrough). Each breaktrough translates into either a new ship, a modification to an existing ship (more beams, more torps, etc.) or a new ability (these are a surprise!). Each breakthrough also resets your research points to 0.

If a ship hull is modified from a breakthrough, existing ships can be “retrofitted” at a friendly starbase. When a certain FC is set, and the planet has the appropriate stock of the item in question, the ship will gain the additional tubes, beams, etc. This is different from the Fed’s Super Refit in that the TYPE of beam or tube cannot be changed (nor can the engines ever be changed from a breaktrough refit).

Any ship breakthrough that is not related to the number of beams or torps (i.e. more fighter bays, higher mass, etc) is automatically applied to all ships instantly (basically because THOST can’t support the same ship having different masses!).

This is still very rough, but what do you guys think? Would people be interested in playing?

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