Limited or No alliance games.

Want a VGA Planets game with custom settings? Have an idea for a tournament? Post it here.

Moderators: BitMask, Havok

User avatar
Julius Atreides
Posts: 402

Limited or No alliance games.

Post#1 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:33 pm

Okay, i have only had limited experience with this so far but it has been great.

So far it seems that limited Alliances seem to do several things for the game.

It should be noted that at least part of my experience is with not only NO Ally, but NO Communications (ie plotting, planning, non agression agreements, ect)

Seems to me that the limited alliances (an in particular NO ALLY) goes a good ways to give the game a very different balance, one that seems to me favorable to races often thought of as 'weaker' in some regards.

I know that for me the Bells Toll for Thee game is my favorite I have ever played (and no, not because of current points standings :P, though that is nice).

No, it is the edge of having to watch all sides of space and yet knowing that there is not going to be some massive alliance organizing against you.

It is the uncertainty and the mystery. It is seeing the ship explosions all over the place and wondering where the next big battle will occur.

Okay, obviously my opinion is too colored by the Blind NO Ally game I am currently playing.

But any of ya'll have opinions or experiences regarding limited or no ally games?

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#2 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:37 pm

Thanks for the feedback Julius. I'm happy to hear you're enjoying the game.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#3 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:33 pm

The Bell Tolls scenario was modeled after the old
Sharenet Blind Tournament that ran IIRC 1999-2000 or so.

By far, that tourney was the most fun I've ever had in VGAP.
I played 3 races concurrently in 3 different games against unknown
players. The SNBT had 100s of entrants in dozens of games all
running together. It was great. I didn't know who I was fighting
and they didn't know who they were against. I loved it.

I was given Fascist, Robot and CofM and while I was unassailable
as both the Robot & CofM, I was most successful as Fascist.

So, Havok and I worked out the details after some consulting with
Red Troll and Havok set the Bells games. I am very pleased that
you're having a good time in the game.

I have wanted to be in both Bell1 & 2 but have been unable as of yet.
Maybe Bells3 for me.

Maybe I'll convince Havok to run one round of Bells with the players
in the game unknown to each other. :twisted:
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#4 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:41 pm

For my part, I'm not enjoying TBTFT one little bit, thanks in large part to your efforts, Julius. :evil:

Seriously, though, you've been very effective. Can't give away too much.

I've found TBTFT to be both challenging and frustrating. It's a challenge for all the reasons Julius described, and I also agree on his assessment of races.

It's frustrating though. I very much enjoy the diplomacy aspect of the game, which is completely lacking in a no allies game. I thought I would enjoy an "every player for himself" game, but now that I've played in one, I don't think I'd sign up for another.

Just my opinion. Not a slam on the game in any way.
>>> Raven <<<

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#5 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:06 pm

Raven2 wrote: It's frustrating though. I very much enjoy the diplomacy aspect of the game, which is completely lacking in a no allies game. I thought I would enjoy an "every player for himself" game, but now that I've played in one, I don't think I'd sign up for another.
I can understand that. That's why this type of game was advertised as a blind game to let everyone know what to expect before diving in.

I'm sure we can come up with a "lite" version if you're interested in the future.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#6 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:17 pm

Havok wrote:
I can understand that. That's why this type of game was advertised as a blind game to let everyone know what to expect before diving in.

I'm sure we can come up with a "lite" version if you're interested in the future.
The posting for the game was very clear...I knew what I was signing up for. We all know diplomacy is a big part of the game. I guess I didn't realize how large a role it plays until I played in TBTFT. In that respect, I'll consider the game a success, since I've learned something no matter the outcome.
>>> Raven <<<

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#7 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:20 pm

i played few ally-limited games so far. it is a complete difference to the "normal" set-up. i would never say i like it more or not - it is just different. being on the watch constantly can be very stressful. on the other hand it is a better set-up for loners and berserkers and it avoids the big alliances that tend to unbalance a game.

i played a one-ally-game with a 80 turn limit on rc-world. it had one big advantage - you were kind of forced to do diplomacy early on, because you would not want to be the one to be alone... and gaining a friend later would be a problem. although some of the ppl did not get that. they lost the game :P
have fun!

hennef

User avatar
Julius Atreides
Posts: 402

Post#8 » Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:39 pm

I agree that Diplomacy can be and often is a very fun part of VGA in general. I certainly have enjoyed that aspect of the game as well. Certainly I would not want all games to be blind no ally games hehe.

We would all go nuts from not being able to tease and taunt.

An 'Every man for himself' game definitely alters game balance a bit I think.

Look what it can do for the skirmishers like the Fascist and Birds.

Or how much more potentially dangerous the Borg could be when there is no "Everyone kill the borg" orchestration.

How about being the Pirates and not having to worry about coordinated anti-pirate strategies and trading?

I think those things are some of the biggest potentials I see in this sort of game set-up.

Races that in many games end up playing second fiddle in alliances may have much more means to shine and more glory to gain when all must stand or fall on their own.

Oh, and on diplomacy in the Bells game. I find that there is definitely still diplomacy just in a much different form. The diplomacy of everyone weighing risk/reward, the diplomacy of shows of force to deter, or even to manipulate movement. I am finding the diplomacy of no verbal diplomacy to be quite enjoyable.

Though some just won't live in peace and seem to want to provoke with sneaky minelaying (:P you know who you are). But that too was his diplomacy that will have diplomatic consequence from me.

And Raven, I feel your pain at times even as I am giggling like a raving mad little child. Definitely, the forced silence is the most frustrating part of that particular game, and yet it adds to much of the fun (at least for me). I look forward to a time in which it can be discussed openly and perhaps for a Movie Magic show of it.

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#9 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:01 am

you should look up "diplomacy" in a dictionary :P
have fun!

hennef

User avatar
Julius Atreides
Posts: 402

Post#10 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:33 am

:coffee: I am well aware of the social nature of diplomacy thank you :P I am even aware that it is often largely verbal and between state representatives.

But at it's root diplomacy is about relationships and communication. That communication does not have to be verbal. Is it not possible for various incentives and deterrents even without words to be classified in some manner as diplomacy?

If not then what word or portion of foreign policy does such non-verbal communications belong?

hehe, here is some more examples of diplomatic strategies :)

:nana: :flip: :kickballs: :guillotine: :violent:

of course there are even less offensive diplomatic options as well...

:bolt:

But some of my favorite strategies are...

:cheers: :alcohol: :Glass:

And I am gathering around here that these :baa: :baa2: :baa3: may be affective with folks in the southern hemisphere.

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#11 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:44 pm

hahahah, i geuss i would be very much attuned to the third row of diplomacy-options :D

i guess there are just some options missing: :cake: :bringgift: :hennef:
have fun!

hennef

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#12 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:15 pm

Julius Atreides wrote: And I am gathering around here that these :baa: :baa2: :baa3: may be affective with folks in the southern hemisphere.
So what is this line of diplomacy called? Aggressive Negotiations?
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Logain
Posts: 720

Post#13 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:21 pm

Only if you happen to be a sheep... :roll:

User avatar
Havok
Site Admin
Posts: 7557
Contact:

Post#14 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 3:14 pm

I'm sure Cardno or Gunnado will know the answer.
Regards,
][avok

User avatar
Vertigo
Posts: 239

Post#15 » Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:24 pm

Gota admit, I am enjoying the hell ouf TBTFT2
Not real fond of the ships being renamed every turn to blnd tny ship
or whatever it is

Seems the plyers are capable of renaming ships
+ Renaming an mbr "Bird of Prey" could add to this game
Just a thought
Does this look infected to you?

Return to “Game Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron