Unnatural Selection and a ladder tournament

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anubis
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Unnatural Selection and a ladder tournament

Post#1 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 am

I was thinking about BitMask’s Race Builder game and it occurred to me that this might be the prefect method to use for a VGAP ladder tournament.

My thought is that a series of 1 on 1 matches (on a smaller map, with a lower ship limit of course). The games should be pretty short (I am thinking ~50 turns) in a smaller area, so perhaps assimilation and potentially terraforming would need to have the rate increased.

I have two ideas on which way it should go.

The first is that each player builds his or her own race, and it is treated as a mini version of Unnatural Selection. The races are different and each player has a different fleet (as per the rules for the larger game).

The second is that the race used is the same, so that each player gets exactly the same fleet, abilities, etc. This common race could be agreed upon by the two players or enforced upon them by a third party.

I think that the first idea is better, as it allows for skill in balancing the racial abilities to shine as well as skill in the playing of VGAP, however, I do see argument towards absolute equality in starting.

What do others think? Anyone think it would be an interesting tournament?

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Hawkeye
Posts: 1029

Post#2 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:14 pm

I like the idea, but think that each side choosing their own race config would be more preferable.

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anubis
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Post#3 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:42 pm

Hawkeye wrote:I like the idea, but think that each side choosing their own race config would be more preferable.
Yeah, I agree.

I was just worried about one team taking a massively cloaking, high attack rate, ground pounding config, vs an assimiliation, sticky mines, advanced anti-cloak team with a defense advantage.

If by chance, they each chose a good config with one having a massive overbalance, that could be a defeat on turn 0. However, I think that if the rules are known beforehand, it is your own fault if you build a glass cannon.

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Hawkeye
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Post#4 » Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:30 pm

anubis wrote:
I was just worried about one team taking a massively cloaking, high attack rate, ground pounding config, vs an assimiliation, sticky mines, advanced anti-cloak team with a defense advantage.
I guess it would be alot like playing rock-paper-scissors. You'd have to try and second-guess what the other player is going to pick, and then choose a setup that would counter his choice. Only trouble is, they're doing the same, and may choose a counter-counter setup. So you'd then have to go with a counter-counter-counter setup..... :D

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BitMask
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Post#5 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:52 pm

The best would be to pick a race that you will keep for the duration of the games in the tournament. That would bi interesting.

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Gilgamesh
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Post#6 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:03 pm

Could be a drag if you made a fatal mistake in designing your race. You'd have to live with it (read: repeatedly die with it) game after game.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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BitMask
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Post#7 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 1:09 pm

If you played a round robin that would we the case, else when you die you are out of the Tournament.

Problem would be that making choices would take to long between games :)

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lord vinny
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Post#8 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:38 pm

does sound like a good idea..wish i wasnt playing three games already or id love to try it myself...

but if we did this we'd have to decide how many can enter the tournament and how we'd choose the order of opponents...wouldnt be fair if a vet beat up afew nembs to get into the finals...and it would be alot of work for havok...

we could limit the # able to enter by making the rank to join "solar knight and above" or something like that...good thing about the one-on-one would be that the turns would be fast!...
yuck!...Who's got the cat breath?

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#9 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:40 pm

Work up the victory conditions and the turn limits
so that some of the time constrained players can
consider it.

Personally, I'd like to see ~50 turn duels.
Fast, furious and over before they become time sinks.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Cherek
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Post#10 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:45 pm

B A N E wrote:Personally, I'd like to see ~50 turn duels.
Fast, furious and over before they become time sinks.
I like this idea, none of this last player standing or a vote to end.
The line below is true.
The line above is false.

Cherek

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B A N E
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Post#11 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 5:52 pm

Gamesize:
I'd recommend reducing the game to:
100 planets
900x900 square map (see below)
100 ships
100 minefields (split equally 50:50 via pconfig)

It's slightly more on avg than normal vgap:
500/11 = 45.45

Regarding the map, I suggest striving for a planet density
equivalent to a normal 2000x2000 map.
In a 2000x2000 map with 500 planets:
(2000^2)/500 = 8000
8000*100 = 800,000
sqrt(800,000) = 894 LY Square.
so, a 900x900 square map would work.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Hawkeye
Posts: 1029

Post#12 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:36 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:Could be a drag if you made a fatal mistake in designing your race. You'd have to live with it (read: repeatedly die with it) game after game.
Why couldn't you just make changes to your race design as desired after each game is completed.....?

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Six_Of_One
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Post#13 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:51 pm

-The ranking system on most VGAP sites is flawed, so setting a minimum rank is pointless.

-Round robin negates the "newb" problem as everyone would get to play them. The nature of the game means it would take a long time to complete this style of tournament.

-You should get 1 chance to design your race and no more. Fine tuning between games just drags the start of the next one out. Also, under the current customizable options, you cant really produce a dud race. You can hamper yourself, but most could live with the worst config.

-NO sticky mines or web mines as they are defensive tools only. The point of this series would be to get the games over in a set period of time, not have two players locked in a web war.


Theres my 2 cents
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#14 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:07 pm

good 2c there.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Cardno
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Re: Unnatural Selection and a ladder tournament

Post#15 » Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:32 pm

anubis wrote:I was thinking about BitMask’s Race Builder game and it occurred to me that this might be the prefect method to use for a VGAP ladder tournament.


What do others think?
I think you should focus on infinitetestimal and stop missing turns :wink:

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