AQ5 Sacrilege!

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Kaiser
Posts: 70

AQ5 Sacrilege!

Post#1 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:55 pm

Hello Fellow AQ5 Prospective Players

At the moment we have the following players for this upcoming game, and a formidable collection of good players we have.

I couldn't help but notice that the Maquis and Ferengi are not wanted and underpowered. I know this game is a uniquely designed and genuine scenario and is the creation of the author Klauser, so before I say what I'm going to say may I first apologise if I have committed sacrilege.

However I have been looking at the ship list and managed to beef up the aforementioned races to make them more palatable to a prospective commander. The necessary Hullspec.dat and Truehull.dat files have been prepared and formatted and appear to work.

I have given the Maquis the Nebula Heavy Carrier. This will give them the power to battle on their own and not have to look for a partner to survive.

I have assigned the Ferengi the Galaxy Heavy Battleship along with the Lanora Graviatonic Scout ship, as well as dropping the tech level of the Bronta Hyperdrive ship to tech 2. This will allow a quicker economic expansion coupled with greater firepower.

The invitation is still open to BANE to play the Maquis, now that they are indepedently worthy:)

So that would leave:

Raven2 - Federation
FLETCH - Gorn
Logain - Romulans
Gilgamesh - Klingons
Kaiser - Orions
Akshamu - Borg
Shardin5 - Tholians
Gavan - Dominion
Hawkeye - Cardassians

Leaving:
Maquis....BANE ???
Ferengi

Regards

Kaiser

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ripjack
Posts: 133

Post#2 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:58 am

Ah, Bane does not require assistance.

Now Casebolt, that's another story.

That poor boy does need some help. :wink:
Batman: "Experience teaches slowly, Robin. And at a cost of many mistakes."

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FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#3 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:13 am

Alpha Quadrant is Alpha Quadrant.

Everything there exists as it does for a reason. The only ship changes that the esteemed Klauser has made over the last 4 incarnations were done to eradicate a nasty bug that blew stuff up and caused things to disappear.

The idea was not just to create a bunch of races with a different ship list to see how they fight. It was to make it fit the DS9 scenario where some people have to utilise ALL their skills, not just fire power, to advance and thrive. Take the Ferengi, not known for their skills as fearsome warriors but as diplomats and negotiators they can't be beat.... Even if the end results are more profitable for one party over another.

AQ1 was played well within the spirit of this scenario. We were not just a bunch of Joes having a crack at VGAP. We tried to play within the scenario. Of all the games I have played, this one lent itself most to a role playing feel. I am not talking Dungeons and Dragons and dress ups and stuff. That's not really my cup of tea. But negotiating as proud nations steeped in tradition as described in the various chronicles of the Star Trek Universe.

I think it would be great if we find players who are suited to playing the Maquis and the Ferengi the way they need to be played, and doing well because of it. Having said that, I would rather these races not take part at all then change their configurations.

It would not be Alpha Quadrant...

And YES that would indeed be sacrilege. :shock:

(Edited to correct a monumental mistake with names...)
Last edited by FLETCH on Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

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Logain
Posts: 720

Post#4 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:45 am

FLETCH wrote:Alpha Quadrant is Alpha Quadrant.

Everything there exists as it does for a reason. The only ship changes that the esteemed Kaiser has made over the last 4 incarnations were done to eradicate a nasty bug that blew stuff up and caused things to disappear.

The idea was not just to create a bunch of races with a different ship list to see how they fight. It was to make it fit the DS9 scenario where some people have to utilise ALL their skills, not just fire power, to advance and thrive. Take the Ferengi, not known for their skills as fearsome warriors but as diplomats and negotiators they can't be beat.... Even if the end results are more profitable for one party over another.

AQ1 was played well within the spirit of this scenario. We were not just a bunch of Joes having a crack at VGAP. We tried to play within the scenario. Of all the games I have played, this one lent itself most to a role playing feel. I am not talking Dungeons and Dragons and dress ups and stuff. That's not really my cup of tea. But negotiating as proud nations steeped in tradition as described in the various chronicles of the Star Trek Universe.

I think it would be great if we find players who are suited to playing the Maquis and the Ferengi the way they need to be played, and doing well because of it. Having said that, I would rather these races not take part at all then change their configurations.

It would not be Alpha Quadrant...

And YES that would indeed be sacrilege. :shock:
Kaiser,

I know your intentions are to make the races more battle worthy, but I have to agree with FLETCH. IIRC The Maquis were freedom fighters against the Cardassians in the DS9 era. They didn't have access to the hulls, nor would they have been allowed to run around blowing up things with capital warships. They relied on guile and sneak attacks to fight a guerilla war againt an occupying force. The Ferengi were a bunch of greedy capitalists who only worked together to maximize their ability to rip off the rest of the universe.

Whille it is unlikely that either of these races have much of a chance to win on their own, they both have some big abilities to bring to an alliance.

Logain

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#5 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:32 am

Kaiser,

As the author of the scenario, I really don't care for your mods. Strikes me as a quick and dirty hack.

I realize there is a perception by some players who's opinions I respect that the Maquis are underpowered - and once I have more time to devote to VGAP again, I intend to re-re-look at the situation.

I would ask - as a courtesy - that you not mod my work without asking me.

Obviously there is nothing I can do to enforce my request - I claim no ownership of any of CBS/Paramount's ships, races or situations.

If you do run a game with any of your mods, don't attach my name to it or ask me for any support.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#6 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:12 am

I have to agree with Fletch and Logain.
As an additional point, part of the reason for Klauser’s upgrade to AQ2 was to eliminate a “cheating” bug related to the Maquis that really hurt innocent players. I’d hate to see that bug reappear due to hull reassignment.
While we’re on the subject, we need to decide which addons, if any, will be used. The original AQ scenario ran with Starbase+, Giveplan, and Teleport. Klauser’s AQ2 documentation indicates the following:


Addons: None required!!
Optimized for RACEPLUS & LURKERS
Also suggested: GIVEPLAN & TELEPORT


My opinions:

Starbase+ makes starbases much more formidable. This provides some additional defensive capabilities to weaker races against fleets of huge capital ships. Since AQ is VERY rich in minerals, most planets will have starbases by late game. In short, it makes invasions MUCH more difficult.

Giveplan really adds value to alliances, and so it tends to help out the weaker races by giving them a better bargaining position. It’s much easier for the Maquis, for example, to build fighters for an ally if the ally can instantly transfer a starbase to the Maquis, then surrender a ship for fighter building to the starbase. It can also put the Borg on reproductive steroids.

Teleport is very useful to all, but I think it tends to favor those who build large capital ships since it enables them to move minerals and cash where needed.

Raceplus has some good abilities, and some that are just plain useless. I’ve never played an AQ game with Raceplus, so I don’t know how the abilities match up to the new ship hulls. One ability, the Gorbie Gravity Well Generator, doesn’t appear to fit the scenario.

Lurkers has the potential to unbalance the game. In Hostile mode, the Lurkers attack the weakest race, which could very well be the Maquis or Ferrengi. In Ally mode, the Lurkers ally with a random race, which may already be a powerhouse. This is the only addon I’d object to.

I would be agreeable to any combination that does not include Lurkers. I’d also be agreeable to no addons at all.
>>> Raven <<<

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Kaiser
Posts: 70

Post#7 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:27 am

I am sorry Klauser.
I did not mean to offend.
Please forgive me.
Regards.
Kaiser.

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#8 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:40 am

Klauser wrote:Kaiser,

As the author of the scenario, I really don't care for your mods. Strikes me as a quick and dirty hack.

I realize there is a perception by some players who's opinions I respect that the Maquis are underpowered - and once I have more time to devote to VGAP again, I intend to re-re-look at the situation.

I would ask - as a courtesy - that you not mod my work without asking me.

Obviously there is nothing I can do to enforce my request - I claim no ownership of any of CBS/Paramount's ships, races or situations.

If you do run a game with any of your mods, don't attach my name to it or ask me for any support.
Klauser,
AQ is yours. I, for one, would not play in an AQ game that did not have your stamp of approval.
:notworthy:
That being said, there is one small HCONFIG change that Havok could make to give the Maquis free fighters at starbases, just like all the other races. Since most races get 3, this could be applied to the Maquis as well to make up for the fact that they don't have a domestic ship capable of producing large numbers of fighters. This would put Maquis starbases on equal footing with the other races, and would reward the Maquis player who manages to acquire an ally who can provide fighter transports.
Would you support this?
>>> Raven <<<

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#9 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:32 pm

Regarding the Lurkers, set them to Harass mode and they
go after the top 5 players.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#10 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:23 pm

Raven2 wrote:I have to agree with Fletch and Logain.
As an additional point, part of the reason for Klauser’s upgrade to AQ2 was to eliminate a “cheating” bug related to the Maquis that really hurt innocent players. I’d hate to see that bug reappear due to hull reassignment.
While we’re on the subject, we need to decide which addons, if any, will be used. The original AQ scenario ran with Starbase+, Giveplan, and Teleport. Klauser’s AQ2 documentation indicates the following:


Addons: None required!!
Optimized for RACEPLUS & LURKERS
Also suggested: GIVEPLAN & TELEPORT


My opinions:

Starbase+ makes starbases much more formidable. This provides some additional defensive capabilities to weaker races against fleets of huge capital ships. Since AQ is VERY rich in minerals, most planets will have starbases by late game. In short, it makes invasions MUCH more difficult.

Giveplan really adds value to alliances, and so it tends to help out the weaker races by giving them a better bargaining position. It’s much easier for the Maquis, for example, to build fighters for an ally if the ally can instantly transfer a starbase to the Maquis, then surrender a ship for fighter building to the starbase. It can also put the Borg on reproductive steroids.

Teleport is very useful to all, but I think it tends to favor those who build large capital ships since it enables them to move minerals and cash where needed.

Raceplus has some good abilities, and some that are just plain useless. I’ve never played an AQ game with Raceplus, so I don’t know how the abilities match up to the new ship hulls. One ability, the Gorbie Gravity Well Generator, doesn’t appear to fit the scenario.

Lurkers has the potential to unbalance the game. In Hostile mode, the Lurkers attack the weakest race, which could very well be the Maquis or Ferrengi. In Ally mode, the Lurkers ally with a random race, which may already be a powerhouse. This is the only addon I’d object to.

I would be agreeable to any combination that does not include Lurkers. I’d also be agreeable to no addons at all.
Starbase +, I can take it or leave it. I don't mind it being there, it can make things interesting as Raven has described.

GivePlan, I used to love this one. Makes things LOTS easier in an alliance. Unfortunately a very clever use of this, in conjunction with other specific race abilities, left a bad taste in my mouth for some time. Call me spooked but I think it is easy to play the game without GivePlan and still achieve what it intends the old fashioned way.

Teleport, LOVE IT. Gets the economy going and assists the war effort of all involved. It does take some logistical planning the get the most out of it.

Raceplus/Lurkers, I don't think the game needs the former and I agree with Raven on the latter.
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

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Gilgamesh
Posts: 4940
Contact:

Post#11 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:35 pm

I like Raceplus and would be glad to see it in AQ5. Starbase plus is OK. I've never played a game with Lurkers and from the sound of it I don't really want to....
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Post#12 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:50 pm

A correction on SB+. I had my addons confused. SB+ is still useful as it allows SBs to lay and sweep mines. It does not, however, directly boost the combat power of starbases.
>>> Raven <<<

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akshamu
Posts: 499

Re: AQ5 Sacrilege!

Post#13 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:43 pm

Kaiser wrote:Hello Fellow AQ5 Prospective Players

At the moment we have the following players for this upcoming game, and a formidable collection of good players we have.

I couldn't help but notice that the Maquis and Ferengi are not wanted and underpowered. I know this game is a uniquely designed and genuine scenario and is the creation of the author Klauser, so before I say what I'm going to say may I first apologise if I have committed sacrilege.

However I have been looking at the ship list and managed to beef up the aforementioned races to make them more palatable to a prospective commander. The necessary Hullspec.dat and Truehull.dat files have been prepared and formatted and appear to work.

I have given the Maquis the Nebula Heavy Carrier. This will give them the power to battle on their own and not have to look for a partner to survive.

I have assigned the Ferengi the Galaxy Heavy Battleship along with the Lanora Graviatonic Scout ship, as well as dropping the tech level of the Bronta Hyperdrive ship to tech 2. This will allow a quicker economic expansion coupled with greater firepower.

The invitation is still open to BANE to play the Maquis, now that they are indepedently worthy:)

So that would leave:

Raven2 - Federation
FLETCH - Gorn
Logain - Romulans
Gilgamesh - Klingons
Kaiser - Orions
Akshamu - Borg
Shardin5 - Tholians
Gavan - Dominion
Hawkeye - Cardassians

Leaving:
Maquis....BANE ???
Ferengi

Regards

Kaiser
Kaiser - I would be willing take either the Maquis or Ferengi as originally designed and let someone else have the Borg.
An Englishman is a person who does things because they have been done before.

An American is a person who does things because they haven't been done before

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Cardno
Posts: 3706
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Borg

Post#14 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:07 pm

I would like to jump in and take the Borg if it is still avaliable at the time of writting this.

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#15 » Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:07 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:I like Raceplus and would be glad to see it in AQ5. Starbase plus is OK. I've never played a game with Lurkers and from the sound of it I don't really want to....
Lurkers sound worse than they really are.
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The US Marines don't have that problem.
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