Klingon Civil War in the fall?

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#76 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:55 am

And for my part, if I were to play in this Klingon Civil War scenario I'd want the custom ship list. What's the point of playing half a scenario? It might only ever get played once so play it fully the first time.

So many ships are shared designs that it's not exactly hard to know what your opponent is packing because more often than not you're packing the same gear anyway.

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#77 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:01 am

Akalabeth: We did play the Klingon Civil War scenario here onsite in the Fall of 2005 (wow ... was that 5 years ago already???). Went very smoothly - only minor "bumps". The "in-game" reason for so much commonality in the shiplists was because the Klingon Houses went to war with the fleet they had on hand - standard Klingon hardware. I tried add a few different ships to the list to keep things interesting - look at Duras, and Crimson Shadow shiplists. Also, several races have "prize" ships from other races in their inventory.

Casebolt: Concerning a SFB map. Download the Federation & Empire scenario and pull out the xyplan.dat & planet.nm out of the data files. It's Spectre's and my first attempt at a SFB map.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#78 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:21 pm

Klauser wrote:Akalabeth: We did play the Klingon Civil War scenario here onsite in the Fall of 2005 (wow ... was that 5 years ago already???). Went very smoothly - only minor "bumps". The "in-game" reason for so much commonality in the shiplists was because the Klingon Houses went to war with the fleet they had on hand - standard Klingon hardware. I tried add a few different ships to the list to keep things interesting - look at Duras, and Crimson Shadow shiplists. Also, several races have "prize" ships from other races in their inventory.
Oh yeah that's cool. Some people were saying they'd prefer Timlist. The usual reason for that being that it's hard for players to play in a non-Timlist simply because they're not familiar with all the new ships. All I was saying was that because a lot of the fleets are largely the same, that not knowing the ships is not as much of a problem. Basically arguing for the scenario-specific ship list in support of my preference.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#79 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:25 pm

Ill take a look at it tx.

JoeSnoffy
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Post#80 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:42 pm

I thought this civil war would be and SRACE game, as I was not aware that it was the name of a scenario.
The Klingon Civil War scenario sounds interesting, but I hope that other players were also expecting a game with 11 players using the same shiplist and all using Fascists combat techniques like pop ships and pillage.

Best wishes,

JoeSnoffy

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Gilgamesh
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Post#81 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:57 pm

Joe - that's what I thought at first too.
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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#82 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:08 pm

Looks like everyone has Glory ships, just that no one has access to Pillage (not sure how the KDF works, being neither AI or Player controlled??). Though everyone presumably has the same abilities that their race would normally have. Unless some of them are turned off. I know the one house lists it as having web mines.

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Samuelt86
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Post#83 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:50 pm

I am agreeing with Joe - I had presumed by the name we would all be going up against 10 other Klingon races with the same race abilities and ship manefest. I figured it would be interesting to see other players techniques in playing the Klingon race and how they would cope against another Klingon. What this set-up is sounding like is merely playing the game with alternative ship-list and giving a new name to the traditional races. I am really not interested in playing that scenario.

As far as other shiplist goes - if we all had the same shiplist available to use, it really would not make a difference as to fairness. The reason I shy from other shiplist is not because I can't learn or play with other ship designs. It is more along the line that this game is very well balanced as is.

Those designing different shiplists put their own bias into the designs trying to make what they think is a fair set-up. There is a big bias into trying to impose big ship strategies onto every race where you build the biggest ship and smash your opponents with brute force. If that were the case, we would all have Biocides or Gorbies.

Some races shiplists are weak by design. They use other tactics to survive/win. The Facsist are one such race. Their ships are weak by design. They have no real effective carrier. Thus they are perceived as a weak race. The truth of the matter is they are one of the most powerful races in the game as are the Birds. You have to play the race and their abilities.

Those alternative shiplists are designed to turn the race into a smash and crash race and away form the natural tactics the race was designed to play. You can say it adds to the race because they now have bigger and better ships. I think it takes away from the game as you no longer have to rely on playing the race but can merely build big ships and go smash your enemies. If that is the tactic you want, then just sign up for one of the big boat races. I happen to like playing the different strategies and against the different strategies.

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Logain
Posts: 720

Post#84 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:20 pm

I'm in my fourth Alpha Quadrant scenario.

I'll play with any shiplist Klauser wants to put together. AQ put new life into my VGAP play and it looks like the Klingon Civil War scenario is just another excellent scenario to breathe new life into this game.

Thanks Klauser!

Logain =D> :notworthy: =D>

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FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Post#85 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 7:31 pm

Logain wrote:I'm in my fourth Alpha Quadrant scenario.

I'll play with any shiplist Klauser wants to put together. AQ put new life into my VGAP play and it looks like the Klingon Civil War scenario is just another excellent scenario to breathe new life into this game.

Thanks Klauser!

Logain =D> :notworthy: =D>
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FLETCH


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Gavan
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Post#86 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:30 pm

I agree with Logain.

Any chance to play something made by Klauser should be taken. (Keep up the good work Klauser)

In this one I will get a chance to play against other players with the same ship list (mostly). This will mean the only differences will be in their skill and race ability.

It should be an excellent game.
Just cause I am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me.

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#87 » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:24 pm

Wow ... thanks again for the vote of confidence guys!

For those of you who have reservations about playing in a Civil War type scenario without all the same Klingon ships and abilities - I will say that I thought long and hard about this when I built the scenario.

My choices were to either make it a straight SRACE game or to make custom races/shiplists/etc. Using SRACE will provide you the same races - literally carbon copies of the same race. I wanted to add some flavor in the mix, while keeping a predominantly Klingon shiplist.

I think it turned out well - the players of both the beta and the first run here on CM really liked the set-up. Hopefully you will too.

But if not, I understand. Some of these scenarios just don't do it for everyone.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#88 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 6:40 am

'sides I always scratch my head when people say Tim's List is balanced. Inter-race perhaps, but there are many ships that are never built. One thing that many custom shiplists try to accomplish is giving each ship a role within the fleet.

People want plain Klingon. But really, cut out the Painmaker, Little Pest, Thorn, Deth Specula, Small Transport, SDSF, MDSF and maybe even the Ill Wind and you'll be left with the "fleet" that veterans will most likely use. Not sure how a . . what, 4 warship fleet repeated 11 times throughout the cluster is going to be particularly fun.

But to each their own.

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Post#89 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:22 am

Like I said earlier, these scenarios may not be for everyone.

The VGAP game engine is flexible enough (using the scenario editor and other tools) to try out set-piece scenarios like Klingon Civil War. It's designed to be more complex and chaotic. It attempts to simulate a civil war situation where the various factions would have to fight or deal with their neighbors based on the fleet and relative position they have "in hand" when the empire disintegrates.

But that's the quandry about full blown scenarios - they're turn-off's for many players because they vary from your classic start-from-scratch-and-build-your-empire setup (the classic 4X game model). Which is the bread and butter of classic VGAP.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#90 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:54 am

If only we could have gotten Arena to work... :?

Klauser, you put a lot of heart into your scenarios, it was a real pleasure
to work with you on Arena.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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