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Upper rank limit to newbie games

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:34 am
by JonnyDoH
Just a thought:

In light of the recent discussion in the Intel Forum, may I suggest a newbie only game? That is, impose an upper limit (for ranks) for a game, and go from there. I know that such a game will not apply to me (or maybe not-- subject to others' opinions) but it might help other newer players ease into the game.

I would also suggest a mentoring system (where a more experience player could look into a players' turn and give pointers), but that might be more difficult to pull off.

I know, in my own experience, the Rebel player in the Pit didn't know how to conduct Rebel Ground Assaults (they kept dropping a single clan on a planet with an orbiting Falcon, but never using the ship mission). At the time, I was the receiving end of the clan drops-- so I wasn't about to tell her how to actually do the assaults. But a game of this nature might be nice in order to offer some good advice.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:13 am
by Rimstalker
most people don't listen, and the one mentoring game I was in, the people didn't listen AND didn't send in their turns on time, it died pretty quickly around turn 30 or so.

Being good at planets has very little to do with 'mentoring', it has 100% to do with your mindset.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:21 am
by JonnyDoH
Rimstalker wrote:most people don't listen, and the one mentoring game I was in, the people didn't listen AND didn't send in their turns on time, it died pretty quickly around turn 30 or so.

Being good at planets has very little to do with 'mentoring', it has 100% to do with your mindset.
Perhaps so. There is only so much you can read about until you need to ask someone else for help-- At least, from my lazy American point of view. Perhaps it's different for Germans.

Were you the only mentor in the program? Just curious.

I still think there should be a game that limits the upper ranks from joining in.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:39 am
by BitMask
This topic has been touched on before in the forums. I can't remember what the end result was for the discussion, but I do not think it was positive.

Do a search on "Newbie Game" and see want you can find.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:44 am
by Rimstalker
no, there were 5 pairs.

And yes, the American attitude is completely different to the German in seeking help.

'You' are a nightmare for anyone working in tech support, because you think you have a right to being spoonfed everything. Strangely enough, you however accept shitty (phone) support. Germans see it as a defeat, as admitting ignorance if they have to contact support.

Have you ever mastered a planets universe? Done a testgame? Looked at Stefan's Planets page? Written any planets tools?

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:28 am
by Six_Of_One
Rimstalker wrote: Have you ever mastered a planets universe? Done a testgame? Looked at Stefan's Planets page? Written any planets tools?
-Once or twice a long time ago
-possibly
-possibly
-nope

4 answers that prove nothing.
Planets has a long learning curve for those with a life as games take so long compared to other pc/xbox/wii/etc games.

My best advice is choose 1 race and stick with them for several games, read the race strategy guides along with the economy guides. When i started i chose the Crystals, a good defensive race that allows the others to come to you while you work on your economy.

If you find you have a good rapport with a couple of players, pm them or email rather than asking questions in the forums. Its better than getting negative energy from players whose memories dont go as far back as the time they first started. Ppl forget what is was like for them, and everyone has a different learning curve.

And it is a game. it doesn't matter if you get your a$$ handed to you if you learnt from the event. Do one game at a time well not many badly. I've just had a 2 year layoff so am easing back in with 1 game and refusing to be tempted by the lure of more. I know how time consuming they become and i have other things to do. 8)

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 8:46 am
by Donovan
When The Pit started, as far as the ranking system here at CM was concerned, I was a total newbie.

On the other hand, our Crystal player is a Star Admiral and his wife, the Rebel player who doesn't know how to RGA, is a Sector Menace.

Go figure.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:35 am
by Havok
Donovan wrote:When The Pit started, as far as the ranking system here at CM was concerned, I was a total newbie.

On the other hand, our Crystal player is a Star Admiral and his wife, the Rebel player who doesn't know how to RGA, is a Sector Menace.

Go figure.
That's just points accumulated from finished games. 8)

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:59 am
by Cardno
BitMask wrote:This topic has been touched on before in the forums. I can't remember what the end result was for the discussion, but I do not think it was positive.

Do a search on "Newbie Game" and see want you can find.
HAHA 'touched upon'???? More likely beaten to death with a stick. AND then beaten some more. Pretty much every year it is brought up. I have advocated the idea of a mentoring type game as well - never seems to go anywhere...

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:57 pm
by JonnyDoH
Donovan wrote:When The Pit started, as far as the ranking system here at CM was concerned, I was a total newbie.

On the other hand, our Crystal player is a Star Admiral and his wife, the Rebel player who doesn't know how to RGA, is a Sector Menace.

Go figure.
Point taken, I stand corrected.
Rimstalker wrote: Have you ever mastered a planets universe? Done a testgame? Looked at Stefan's Planets page? Written any planets tools?
Nope.
Yes, but I'll admit I don't know what I was looking for, and I didn't apply the Jupiter Add-on.
Yes, but I mostly use Donovan's or CM. What's the address?
Nope. I only just took my first programming class a year or so ago. My major didn't exactly cover programming and for the longest time I underestimated my ability to code. Maybe I'll try to make one if I garner more experience.
Rimstalker wrote: ...spoon fed Americans...
I don't think I like to be spoon fed anything, although it helps in certain cases. My learning about VGAP was mostly self taught by reading the various guides and cross referencing such in order to find out what the races can do. Some items are barely covered and can easily be missed.

I had another friend fill in some gaps, but alas, his knowledge wasn't quite as comprehensive as Rimstalker's. Some bits are obvious that I completely overlooked them (Like the difference between how things ran in Phost/Thost) and others so completely complicated that I don't think I would have grasped until you told me.

And to round out another factoid, my major in college was less mathy and more artsy-wordy. I do better with pretty pictures than I do with the math coding. So while I was semi-insulted by your words in another thread, I was also looking forward to your "pretty pictures."

I suppose my major problem is that I haven't stuck with one race in order to master them. I play other races mostly to figure out how to counter them. To date, here is my score on which races I've played:

Fed: no games
Lizard: one game
Birdman: Two games
Fascist: no games
Privateer: two games, one currently playing
Cyborg: two games, one currently playing
Crystal: two games (third game turtled-- no fun).
Evil Empire: No games
Robot: One game (second game-- got my ass handed to me).
Rebels: One game, currently playing
Colonials: One game (first game-- got my ass handed to me).

I may have been exaggerating about the whole "15" games thing. I'm not afraid to list my experience and draw the possible fire from the more experienced players. I hope it lends understanding to my predicament and maybe an olive branch of help. I also think most of you have probably stopped/skipped reading by now.

Anyway, sorry for my rambling and overly wordy responses. Thanks for your posts guys-- I really do appreciate the help given thus far.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:43 pm
by Rimstalker
google for 'stefans planets page'.

I don't even have a major :).

And for planets, you can do some really basic stuff even in php or ruby.

upload a turn (would have to check, but I think there is a seperate message file), delete duplicate minefield messages, rebuild the file, display messages in a html page. Should be doable in one day, even with limited programming skills.

What was so complex that I explained? Wait until you play a powergame. Asteroids (quadbenium jumps), Unity, Abhost, Jupiter. And then alliances. That stuff makes your head spin.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:14 pm
by JonnyDoH
Rimstalker wrote:google for 'stefans planets page'.

I don't even have a major :).

And for planets, you can do some really basic stuff even in php or ruby.

upload a turn (would have to check, but I think there is a seperate message file), delete duplicate minefield messages, rebuild the file, display messages in a html page. Should be doable in one day, even with limited programming skills.

What was so complex that I explained? Wait until you play a powergame. Asteroids (quadbenium jumps), Unity, Abhost, Jupiter. And then alliances. That stuff makes your head spin.
..psst: power game 1 :wink:

I'll admit, I'm learning a lot there too.

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:22 pm
by Captain Blood
I like the idea of beginner games, but I was also the one arguing about games for veterans.

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:12 am
by PsychoHawk
The big part of VGAP is the learning curve and experience issue as previously noted. To get a good grip on VGAP, a player has to have played roughly 5-10 games to a point where the ship limit was reached and there are fights for basic resources along with ship slots. Surviving in a game to this point gives you *decent* experience with your played race and races you were exposed to. You can read all about other people's after action reports, but nothing beats the raw first hand experience.

Keep in mind, some people have been playing VGAP since version 3 was released, almost 20 years ago. Some people were playing VGAP v2 before version 3 and I have no idea when v2 was released.

Like any other hobby, it pays to read up on guides, posts, comments, and to talk to other players whenever possible. VGAP is also a bit harder to learn and master because games usually take a few months to finish, where most other games may take a few hours or days to complete and restart.


And like any other strategy game, many players have their own special tricks that are not likely to shared with the public or figured out by inexperienced players...