Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#16 » Mon Nov 02, 2015 9:46 pm

Logain wrote:Klauser,

My only feedback on the carrier mods is that they will not have enough cargo space to self repair after a D'Visor blast hits their enemy. That will result in the D'Visor having to be used during a prior turn which will allow the enemy time to self repair or the Maquis carriers will have to fight with damage from the blast.

Recommend adding enough cargo space to withstand one mine hit... Especially on the Victory.

I know that will require a bigger supply load, but the alternative removes the advantage of attacking with a D'Visor.

Logain
After looking over the Glory Device damage formula, how about:
PATRIOT CV cargo = 80 and VICTORY CV cargo = 132

Your thoughts?
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Logain
Posts: 720

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#17 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 11:38 am

Klauser,

I'm away from my ship list, but that cargo capacity looks Ok if the D'Visor causes 10% damage to friendly ships. I can't remember which pop ship the D'Visor was based on.

My only other recommendation would be to increase the Victory mass >320kt to allow it to only take 1% damage from a fighter hit instead of 2% at its current mass. That would make it survivable long enough to scratch the paint on a capital carrier.

Logain

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Fexer
Posts: 143

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#18 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:45 pm

Logain wrote:Klauser,

I'm away from my ship list, but that cargo capacity looks Ok if the D'Visor causes 10% damage to friendly ships. I can't remember which pop ship the D'Visor was based on.

My only other recommendation would be to increase the Victory mass >320kt to allow it to only take 1% damage from a fighter hit instead of 2% at its current mass. That would make it survivable long enough to scratch the paint on a capital carrier.

Logain
Hm, I don't think this is a very good idea considering e.g. the material costs an TL of the Victory. It will simply make it too strong and way too cheap compared to its potential! Just my two cents....

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#19 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 8:53 pm

Fexer wrote:
Logain wrote:Klauser,

I'm away from my ship list, but that cargo capacity looks Ok if the D'Visor causes 10% damage to friendly ships. I can't remember which pop ship the D'Visor was based on.

My only other recommendation would be to increase the Victory mass >320kt to allow it to only take 1% damage from a fighter hit instead of 2% at its current mass. That would make it survivable long enough to scratch the paint on a capital carrier.

Logain
Hm, I don't think this is a very good idea considering e.g. the material costs an TL of the Victory. It will simply make it too strong and way too cheap compared to its potential! Just my two cents....
I agree with the mass increase. If you're concerned about cost then raise the hull cost in minerals and MC by 30 or 40 percent. With the increased mass the Victory should be able to stand up to most high-end torp-throwers, but still won't be a match for a heavy carrier like the Nebula or the Cube.
>>> Raven <<<

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Logain
Posts: 720

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#20 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:20 pm

Fexer wrote:
Hm, I don't think this is a very good idea considering e.g. the material costs an TL of the Victory. It will simply make it too strong and way too cheap compared to its potential! Just my two cents....
Fexer,

This whole discussion came about because the Maquis becomes paste against any enemy in the game. It is beyond frustrating to do everything right and have a stream of ships lined up only to watch them vaporize because your opponent threw one capital ship in the mix.(Been on both sides of that fight #-o ). At least a 320 kt carrier will be able to live long enough to let his fighters make contact with the enemy.

Run the sims to see the difference...

Logan

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Fexer
Posts: 143

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#21 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:09 pm

Logain wrote:
Fexer wrote:
Hm, I don't think this is a very good idea considering e.g. the material costs an TL of the Victory. It will simply make it too strong and way too cheap compared to its potential! Just my two cents....
Fexer,

This whole discussion came about because the Maquis becomes paste against any enemy in the game. It is beyond frustrating to do everything right and have a stream of ships lined up only to watch them vaporize because your opponent threw one capital ship in the mix.(Been on both sides of that fight #-o ). At least a 320 kt carrier will be able to live long enough to let his fighters make contact with the enemy.

Run the sims to see the difference...

Logan
Raven got to the point. My fear was the overall costs in terms of mats are way to cheap. I would be happy to take the Maquis based on Klausers enhancement proposal with the VC mass > 321KT. Why not put it to the test in a real game?
Afterwards we can go on discussing further enhancements. What do you think? :idea:

Fexer

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Logain
Posts: 720

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#22 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 7:47 pm

I think... Be careful what you wish for.

Even with a beefier Victory class carrier, the Maquis will be bigtime underdogs unless they have heavy carrier big brother interested in their fighter production [-X Got to outbuild your neighbors about 3-4:1 to keep up! :shock:

Better pray for a bunch of local Ghip planets right off the bat!

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#23 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:05 pm

The Maquis shiplist with the >320 ton Victory could actually be survivable if played correctly. There's enough balance there to provide a resourceful Maquis player with a decent number of options. A lot still depends on the config. For the Maquis to actually be competitive they MUST be the only race allowed to build fighters in space.
I would actually take the Maquis with these mods, again, depending on config.
If I'm the Borg or Fed, I'm looking at the Maquis as an ally who can fill my cargo holds with fighters and can actually defend himself without me having to totally support his capital ship needs (depending on who's playing them, of course.) And if they don't ally with me, I'm looking to take them out before they fill their SBs with fighters and start sharing fighters with another ally.
If I'm anyone else, the Victory's got enough teeth to at least present a challenge to my capital ships.
I hope to get a chance to see how they perform!
>>> Raven <<<

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#24 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:51 pm

Raven2 wrote:The Maquis shiplist with the >320 ton Victory could actually be survivable if played correctly. There's enough balance there to provide a resourceful Maquis player with a decent number of options. A lot still depends on the config. For the Maquis to actually be competitive they MUST be the only race allowed to build fighters in space.
I would actually take the Maquis with these mods, again, depending on config. If I'm the Borg or Fed, I'm looking at the Maquis as an ally who can fill my cargo holds with fighters and can actually defend himself without me having to totally support his capital ship needs (depending on who's playing them, of course.) And if they don't ally with me, I'm looking to take them out before they fill their SBs with fighters and start sharing fighters with another ally.
Having the Maquis as the only race able to build fighters in space was exactly how I intended AQ to be played. Unfortunately, one of the things I did not take into consideration was that many people and sites who have hosted AQ games would more often than not go with the default HCONFIG settings - with Player 9, 10 and 11 able to build fighters in space. (Which of course makes the AQ Ferengi and Cardassian players very happy!!)

This makes me more inclined to make these changes. If the Maquis are being denied their biggest stick as much as they have been, then it makes more sense to give them a better chance to survive not having it.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Fexer
Posts: 143

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#25 » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:48 pm

So everything is said I guess!
Klausers mod proposal seems sound to me.
In addition, let the VC's mass be bigger than 320kt and the Maquis be the only race with the ability to build fighters in space. Plus don't grant free fighters at any SB in HCONFIG.

For AQ9 I'll offer myself as guinea pig for the Maquis!

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Logain
Posts: 720

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#26 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:17 pm

Fexer,

You may have to flip a coin with Raven over that one. I think he's interested as well =D>

Never thought I'd see the day where players might argue who gets to play the Maquis in an AQ game #-o

Logain

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#27 » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:22 pm

Logain wrote:Fexer,

You may have to flip a coin with Raven over that one. I think he's interested as well =D>

Never thought I'd see the day where players might argue who gets to play the Maquis in an AQ game #-o
Ain't THAT the truth!!

:shock:
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#28 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:08 pm

If Fexer really wants them that's fine.
Kinda had my eye on the Klingon....
>>> Raven <<<

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Logain
Posts: 720

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#29 » Sat Nov 07, 2015 7:19 pm

Raven2 wrote:If Fexer really wants them that's fine.
Kinda had my eye on the Klingon....
Back to your roots... eh? Woe to your enemies :lol: [-o< =P~ :shock:

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant: Maquis Fix

Post#30 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 8:50 am

I got the data files modified for AQ.

I've incorporated most of the changes we've discussed over the last couple of weeks, plus some from previous comments over past years. Specifically:

GLOBAL CHANGES

- Add fighter bays back into most tugs: HENSLEY, BRONTOSAUR, DWARFSTAR, T'MEL, VESPERA, BORG TRANSPORT, RANOL, and TOMAX.

- Eliminated FIGHTER TRANSPORT from all shiplists. MILITARY TRANSPORT only in THOLIAN, CARDASSIAN and MAQUIS shiplist.

ORION
- Removed B'RELL SC from shiplist.

CARDASSIAN
- Added B'RELL SC to shiplist.

FERENGI
- Removed SUPER TRANSPORT FREIGHTER from shiplist.

MAQUIS:
- Replaced HENSLY TUG with DWARFSTAR XPT
- Added D'VISOR CR
- Modified PATRIOT CVL ship stats
- Heavily modified VICTORY CV stats

I know I said I'd have it ready for ][avok this weekend, but I still need to clean up the scenario documents - while simple work, it takes time.
Last edited by Klauser on Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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