Welcome to The Pit 5

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Hawkeye
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#61 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:49 am

I did try to tell you the missiles were a waste of time... :wink:

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#62 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:52 am

So you won't have minded that I sent a couple of hundred of them at you this game.

They are a nice weapon, but they have certain limitations and I agree the viral field is unbalanced, especially in the hands of a race with a powerful fleet even in a NF scenario.
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Hawkeye
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#63 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:04 am

Gilgamesh wrote:So you won't have minded that I sent a couple of hundred of them at you this game.
Actually, no. They were honestly a minor niggle at the end of the day and did little to impede my progress (I'm sure you would agree having seen this first hand). In fact it was fuel (or a lack of it) that was the main inhibitor to expansion in the early stages. I mentioned part way through the game you were using them wrong - basically you kept firing the same type of missiles in a spread, which decreased population, but the Jupiter add-on allows the Robots to build more colonists out of Tri and Supplies.... This is why you would have seen some effect on the Empire, but not the Robots. As time went on, I increased my planet count, which wasn't matched by your ship count, and therefore the missiles started to have a diluted effect. What would have been a better option would have been to either (a) send 40-odd planet-defeating missiles at once from the same location to a single planet, thus reducing population happiness to the point where civil wars cause the planet (and therefore starbase) to be lost, or (b) send a mix of planet-defeating missiles along with ship-defeating ones which would have made me have to check every. single. one. (a time consuming process)

The other down-side to the missiles is they give away your ship (and the number of them) locations.
Gilgamesh wrote: They are a nice weapon, but they have certain limitations and I agree the viral field is unbalanced, especially in the hands of a race with a powerful fleet even in a NF scenario.
The viral field is a PITA for sure, but not unbeatable, even for the Fascists, nor without it's limitations. Funnily enough its the Birdmen which are probably best equipped to deal with it (Darkwing on cloaked-intercept of course). You say it's unbalanced, but at the end of the day, I didn't even come close to winning...

The main problem I faced in the game was the Crystal webmines, as most of my fleet (carriers) had low-tech beam weapons, sweeping these became nigh on impossible. I was quite prepared to inch ahead into their territory, but it was the gameplay of the Lizard player (yes I'm calling you out on this one Iceman) that kind of let the game down if I'm honest. Sure he played to win and did that convincingly (congrats / well done / clap clap / =D> ), but.... I got the feeling that his tactics tended to "strangulate" the ship build queue (it took absolutely ages to get it up to planet 500). This is what one needs to do to win the game, but makes for a sucky experience - with over 200 ships in the fleet, you'd expect to see a few Lizard ship explosions (explosions = fun by the way), but we didn't when compared proportionally to the other players. I got the feeling he was stockpiling (apologies if I'm wrong on this one), rather than engaging. The Echoview history graph confirms this. Like I say, it's how to win the game, but doesn't make for good, fun, healthy gameplay. The other impression I got was that he was hiding behind the skirt of the Crystals (although losing a few ships to my viral fields probably didn't help in this regard). But the biggest issue was the use of those anti-matter missiles. They are a complete game killer, pure and simple. I refused to build them in Pits 2 and 3, and still managed to do alright. The problem with them is that the first player to build the first launcher/missile can then use it to target any other players planets attempting to build a launcher, thus rendering the investment null and void. As they're normally built well-behind enemy territorial lines and well defended, taking them out is like trying to heard cats with a bulldozer.

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#64 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 10:18 am

Well I don't know - I got plenty of missile messages from your area of space saying they had landed on a planet belonging to nobody, so don't pretend you didn't lose anything. If I was on the receiving end of that I might consider it more than a "minor niggle" but tell it how you want.

Either way - I'm kinda glad this one is over. Looking forward to that NF xenophobia game. I got plenty of experience playing without an ally or a NAP partner in the pit.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Hawkeye
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#65 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:17 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:Well I don't know - I got plenty of missile messages from your area of space saying they had landed on a planet belonging to nobody, so don't pretend you didn't lose anything. If I was on the receiving end of that I might consider it more than a "minor niggle" but tell it how you want.
Sure, I lost a couple of starbases in the end (a very small percent of the total), I'm not denying that at all, but once you got those messages and targeted another planet, I simply re-populated the planet and re-built the base if it was a planet worth keeping. From a campaign perspective it meant your ships were anchored while mine were on the move. If you had a junk ship / Stardrive 1 SDSF throwing the rocks, then this was probably a good job for it, but in the grand scheme of things who wants to build a fleet of junk ships, right?

If on the other hand you had Transwarp Vickies just sitting there doing the same thing, ultimately the restriction of expansion combined with mineral & monetary expense to build the missiles would not out-weigh the limited damage done to your enemy. Surely you can see this - by focusing on the tactic of destroying my economy you ended up being evicted from your home cluster and were unable to prevent my expansion into the centre as a result. From an economy perspective I was doing quite well, as every starbase I had ahead of the build queue by about 50 places was primed to build a Golem.

I reckon it wouldn't be a bad idea to play a game where you're on the receiving end of the missiles instead (I've played two) and see what you think? At first they seem big and scary, but once they have landed and you work out that life goes on as normal, then you just end up with getting on with business as usual and tend not to worry about them. You could adopt the perspective that they worked on the Evil Empire, but let's face it, if it was a newbie player combined with what is often touted as the weakest race in the game, then a normal invasion strategy would be just as if not more effective. Just my 2 cents worth of course :wink:

Hawkeye

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#66 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:29 pm

So on the one hand you say the missiles were a minor annoyance - on the other you say you weren't overbalanced with your viral field. Most posters seem to disagree with you on that one.

But - who cares - the game is over and you finished one place ahead of me. Somehow I will find a way to live with the defeat...
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Hawkeye
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#67 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:17 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:So on the one hand you say the missiles were a minor annoyance - on the other you say you weren't overbalanced with your viral field.
Gil, these are two unrelated items, and therefore hardly a contradiction. Yes, the Fascist missiles were a minor annoyance, and no, I never stated that I wasn't overbalanced. What I did say was that the viral field can be a PITA, however if the correct tactics are employed, then it can be neutralised. I was once playing against a Robot player that was using viral fields (got caught in them too) and managed to reduce them down to a couple of starbases by the end of the game, so they can be dealt to. It's fair to say the Cybernaut isn't an overly powerful ship, and to be used effectively you have to be careful with it. When you chose your race for this game, both the Lizards and Robots were still available as an option. Perhaps next time grab the Robots for a run instead of having a whine?
Gilgamesh wrote: Most posters seem to disagree with you on that one.
Actually Gil, that would be just yourself and Iceman on this one... I would put it to you that the mass of overlapping Crystal webmines in the north-west quadrant and the itinerant ion storms were a far, far bigger menace. The Lizard player could have taken out the viral fields easily enough given the number of ships he had, the trouble was he wasn't prepared to commit the ships required to do so, as by attacking he would have taken his Rex's and Madons up against my carriers. Heck even with the number of Vickies I saw you could have had a crack at it.

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Gilgamesh
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Re: Welcome to The Pit 5

Post#68 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:22 pm

Like I said - the game is over. Let's let it go now.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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