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Posted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:11 pm
by Gilgamesh
my 2 cents......

- D7 is good as is, maybe a little more cargo room....
- either beef up the Deth Spec with more mass and a much bigger fuel tank, or give the Klingons the Resolute
- Ill-wind - instead of a Resolute maybe make the Ill Wind cloakable and give it 2 more torp tubes
- more of everything on the carrier - I never build them as they are but a half decent mid-range (thinking around the Fed Kitty range) carrier would be a big help........
- Vickie - more mass, more fuel and cargo room, another couple of tubes

and if we're tinkering with abilities...

- pillage mission - beam up fuel as well as supplies

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 8:32 am
by hennef
Gilgamesh wrote:my 2 cents......

- D7 is good as is, maybe a little more cargo room....
- either beef up the Deth Spec with more mass and a much bigger fuel tank, or give the Klingons the Resolute
- Ill-wind - instead of a Resolute maybe make the Ill Wind cloakable and give it 2 more torp tubes
- more of everything on the carrier - I never build them as they are but a half decent mid-range (thinking around the Fed Kitty range) carrier would be a big help........
- Vickie - more mass, more fuel and cargo room, another couple of tubes

and if we're tinkering with abilities...

- pillage mission - beam up fuel as well as supplies
wow. isnĀ“t that a bit much? ill wind with 2 more tubes would be very nice though :roll: but i think it is ok it can not cloak. and more cargo and fuel on most ships would be very cool.

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:00 am
by Gilgamesh
Well, compare an Ill-Wind with 4 tubes to the Fed second-string ship, the Missouri, and I'm not sure it's that far out of line. Just sitting back and dreaming.... :D

Gilgamesh

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:07 pm
by darkdimensions
That would give the Fascists a much better advantage. Instead of struggling to keep up with the Vickies, a fleet of Ill Winds can Pillage Plunder and Destroy some ships all the while holding hundreds of clans, and supplies. If that doesnt keep people in with the Klingons nothing will. (Well nothing except for a Cloaked Battleship)

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 2:52 pm
by Gilgamesh
...or a cloaking popper??? :twisted:

To me it comes down to a little more hitting power in the mid range and high end to make the Klingons at least comparable to the other races. Not too much on the Vickie, maybe a little more mass, cargo and another tube or two, and either beef up the Deth Spec with fuel, cargo and mass, or put more tubes on the Ill-wind and maybe cloak it.

I don't want to get the Klingons unfairly ahead of anybody, but making the Ill-wind comparable to or a little below the Missouri, the Valliant comparable to the Kitty, and the Vickie a little stronger so that it had a better win ratio (maybe around 50/50) against a T-Rex than it has now (according to Echoview, on maxxed out ships the Vickie will win 5 and lose 107 times).

"Poppers are the great equalizer", I always hear that, and it's true to some extent, but once your popper is popped, how do you equalize the next fight? These campaigns don't often come down to one grand battle - it's a series of skirishes, in my experience. Sooner or later you run out of poppers, especially against the carrier races. When that happens your capital ships have to stand up on their own, and without plenty of poppers to soften up the enemy, you just don't have the horses.

Gilgamesh

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 3:52 pm
by hennef
the vikki is not the best battleship, but it also does not have to. it gets killed by the T nearly every time, but only due to the 150% damage of the lizards. that should not be taken into account here. the vikki is as strong as the diamond flame and that is ok i think. it kills the missy roughly 70% of the battles and never wins against any other battleship. so you could dramatise and say it is the worst battleship, but it is not, since it is cheap and you can use your poppers in those battles or assist with one of your cloakers first. that just is the trick! you HAVE to use more ships per battle. that is why i would increase the cargo, mass and fuel of the deth, put some more cargo on the D7 and improve the ill wind. that way you can better support your battleships. it is an indirect improvement. i guess they are ment to be played that strange way. kill and be killed. winning with sacrifices. the warrior-way to victory!

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:01 pm
by darkdimensions
hennef wrote:the vikki is not the best battleship, but it also does not have to. it gets killed by the T nearly every time, but only due to the 150% damage of the lizards. that should not be taken into account here. the vikki is as strong as the diamond flame and that is ok i think. it kills the missy roughly 70% of the battles and never wins against any other battleship. so you could dramatise and say it is the worst battleship, but it is not, since it is cheap and you can use your poppers in those battles or assist with one of your cloakers first. that just is the trick! you HAVE to use more ships per battle. that is why i would increase the cargo, mass and fuel of the deth, put some more cargo on the D7 and improve the ill wind. that way you can better support your battleships. it is an indirect improvement. i guess they are ment to be played that strange way. kill and be killed. winning with sacrifices. the warrior-way to victory!
well put

Posted: Sat Apr 22, 2006 4:17 pm
by Gilgamesh
Without the 150% damage the T-Rex is definitely weak, no question. But it does come with a 150% damage limit so I'm not sure why we should ignore that?

In Echoview sims, Vicki 67 Diamond Flame 54 and similar for the Crystal Thunder with Vicki fighting from the left - better than I expected but still iffy.

It will probably take a few games on a modified shiplist to see for sure what, if anything, is agreed on as good improvements.

Either way - I'll keep playing the Klingons even if the shiplist never changes.

Gilgamesh

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:29 am
by hennef
Gilgamesh wrote:Without the 150% damage the T-Rex is definitely weak, no question. But it does come with a 150% damage limit so I'm not sure why we should ignore that?

In Echoview sims, Vicki 67 Diamond Flame 54 and similar for the Crystal Thunder with Vicki fighting from the left - better than I expected but still iffy.

It will probably take a few games on a modified shiplist to see for sure what, if anything, is agreed on as good improvements.

Either way - I'll keep playing the Klingons even if the shiplist never changes.

Gilgamesh
haha, jo! they are fun, but i am just beginning to get an idea of their abbilities. i will play all the races with the old ship-list, as i probably would with any good new list. but fascists get a place in the upper half.

with that improvements above, they would surely be one of my three favorites 8)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:35 am
by hennef
btw: the vikki and diamond are exactly the same. they should fight 50/50. "tanascius" says, the right one wins 51.4% of a time and 9.9% are draws - both ships being destroyed.

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:42 am
by hennef
one more thing: here is a picture of the armed frighter i had in mind http://www.badmonkeynobanana.com/shipsKLINGON.htm

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:58 am
by Cherek
The whole group looks nice.

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:03 am
by hennef
yep, i like it too :D

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:04 am
by Gilgamesh
I think I'm at my capacity on games until the fall (3 right now), but if a game starts up in September - October with the modified shiplist I would definitely be on for playing (Klingons, of course!)

Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:09 am
by hennef
Gilgamesh wrote:I think I'm at my capacity on games until the fall (3 right now), but if a game starts up in September - October with the modified shiplist I would definitely be on for playing (Klingons, of course!)
then we need two klingons or two games..... unless i play the EE ;)