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Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:06 am
by hennef
have not been here for quite some time. i reread all that above and think: why do you mention ES-bonus to work against capturing, BANE? i think it favors the chance to capture a ship. it has more hull that way, but same number of crew. so it will be captured more easily.

i just had this demonstrated in arena. my little ones WILL get captured if i waste TDs on them, they MIGHT get captured with qd7 and they are easily destroyed with s1-drives. they certainly never win a fight of course ;)

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 10:45 am
by B A N E
In Arena, you're using a different shiplist/weapons.

But in the default:
(quoting myself from earlier)
Bane wrote: Right now the crew capture weapons are almost all nullified by high
crew, high mass and ES bonus.

Xray is useless versus high mass and es bonus.
Disruptor destroys light ships rather than capture.
HDisruptor is even more devastating against small ships.
BOOM.
Gammabomb is crippled by insufficient blast to shields so a horde of
torps gets fired and no significant gain.
As mass goes up, damage & % killed go down.
But that isn't the biggest problem with the crewkill weapons.

As *combat* mass rises, the % damage to shields drop.
So, for an Xray to start killing crew, it has to hit the shields of a big
ship 100 times before it even gets a chance to shoot crew.

The bigger the ship, the more shots needed.
The higher the es bonus, the more shots needed.

While the Disruptor and H.Disruptor moderate this somewhat, there
won't be ship captures except in the rare cases like:
Vendetta, Iron Lady, Firecloud, small probes.

The Phost team in Phost4 has done a wonderful job with death weapons
(they don't work in Tim's Host/VCR and I suspect TKF & TVCR2).
Death weapons ignore shields and hull and kill crew.
That is an ideal solution to the problem.

Now the building of ships explicitly for killing crew and combat capture
is an viable option.

What I'd like to be able to do is build say an Annihilation with
Death Rays and Death Bombs and be able to capture enemy heavies
like Illwinds.

But, currently if you do that, the Illwind will blow up the Annihilation
due to Tim's combat mechanics.

With Phost (4?) maybe 3 (I am uncertain atm) with deathrays/bombs
I can build a ship that can go hunting to capture rather than destroy.
[/list]

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:38 pm
by hennef
the very important difference is, that the increase in hullmass by es-bonus is decreasing the damage taken in a quadratic manner, not linear. the loss of crew is not.

so you get more crew damage than hull damage the higher the mass - in comparision.

read it in the master at arms over on donovan's site.

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:24 pm
by B A N E
Yes, there are some ships that you can capture only with es bonus
above a certain level.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:10 am
by hennef
plus lizard-ships are even more easily captured ;)

but i like ES-bunus very much. should be active more often.


one question that just comes to my mind: if crystals capture enemy ships via towing. do they also lose half their crew to restaff the other ship?

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:01 am
by B A N E
hennef wrote:plus lizard-ships are even more easily captured ;)

but i like ES-bunus very much. should be active more often.


one question that just comes to my mind: if crystals capture enemy ships via towing. do they also lose half their crew to restaff the other ship?
I prefer ES off due to it empowering fleets unequally.

Feds gain tremendously, great if you're fed.
Liz lose.
Birds lose ground tremendously.
Fascists lose.
Pirates lose.
Borg lose.
Crystals lose.
EE gains.
Bots same.
Rebs gain.
CofM gain.


I see no good reason to give more firepower advantages to the
races that already are superior in firepower.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:03 am
by B A N E
Regarding Crystal tow capture, yes, they lose crew on their ships.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:12 am
by hennef
B A N E wrote:
hennef wrote:plus lizard-ships are even more easily captured ;)

but i like ES-bunus very much. should be active more often.


one question that just comes to my mind: if crystals capture enemy ships via towing. do they also lose half their crew to restaff the other ship?
I prefer ES off due to it empowering fleets unequally.

Feds gain tremendously, great if you're fed.
Liz lose.
Birds lose ground tremendously.
Fascists lose.
Pirates lose.
Borg lose.
Crystals lose.
EE gains.
Bots same.
Rebs gain.
CofM gain.


I see no good reason to give more firepower advantages to the
races that already are superior in firepower.
yea, you are right with that. i just like everything that favors fed and empire, because i like them both ;)
especially empire have a rough time to be good normally.

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:17 am
by Cherek
Half of the capturing starship's crew or a full compliment for the captured starship (whichever is less) will beam over and man the captured starship. The Feds (90%), Privateer (100%), EE (40%) and the CoM (70%) of the crew members will rather go traitor than be ejected into space.

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:04 pm
by hennef
Commodore Cherek, IRJTN wrote:Half of the capturing starship's crew or a full compliment for the captured starship (whichever is less) will beam over and man the captured starship. The Feds (90%), Privateer (100%), EE (40%) and the CoM (70%) of the crew members will rather go traitor than be ejected into space.
is there a button for random statements one can push? :D