The Pirates

Post here if you are interested in the balancing of the Tim branded shiplist

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

The Pirates

Post#1 » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:51 pm

Post ideas about ships for the Pirate's. This should be used in helping Zap and Bane come up with a new shiplist. Post Ideas about exceptable race advantages too
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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#2 » Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:20 pm

PRIVS
Problem Hulls / sorta.
Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Fixed in Klingon list.
Designed for Klingons, it's a stolen hull, should not be designed for
the Pirates.

Skyfire CC________5__2__4__-__2__270__150__370___250__250__61__52__83
NSkyfire CC_______5__2__4__-__3__270__150__370___410__250__61__52__83

Fixed in Bird list.
Designed for Birds, it's a stolen hull, should not be designed for the
Pirates.

Red Wind CV_______8__2__2__2__-___40___70___85____60__150__37__22__15
NRed Wind CV______8__2__2__4__-__120__140__190____60__150__37__22__15

Fixed in Bird list.
Designed for Birds, it's a stolen hull, should not be designed for the
Pirates.

Outrider is a fed hull, stolen, no change.
Little Pest is a fascist hull, stolen, no change.

The "unique" Privateer ships are:
Br4, Br5, MBR, Dwarfstar, LRoyale & Bloodfang, all of
which have nothing wrong with regards to how the privs
are played. Each ship serves functions as needed.

Sacrificial lambs? Br4
Multifunctional sacrifice?, Br5
MBR needs no explanation.
Dwarfstar, cargo and sweep.
LRoyale is the big slurp.
Bloodfang is the only ship capable of tackling Borg worlds that
aren't starbases.

The privs shouldn't be able to fight straight up.
With the improvements to the stolen hulls, their fleet gains some
new functionality that they didn't have.

Lady Royale should be a designed for privateers ship and that
means a monster fuel tank.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Tei
Posts: 602

Post#3 » Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:05 am

I suggest to differentiate the BR5 more from the BR4. Give is a larger mass, cargo hold and fuel tank, somewhere between the BR4 and MBR.

Add an extra beam and fighter bay to the bloodfang to make it worth building a few or allow it to cloak.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#4 » Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:23 am

i agree to BANE here.

no changes needed for the privs.

0,02$ kaCHING!
have fun!

hennef

Strixy
Posts: 20

Post#5 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:49 am

Sorry for arriving late to the conversation, but I would like to add a few words on behalf of the privateers. Well, more like a self indulgant rant about the things that have bothered me about them since I started playing them.

Feel free to ignore. Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

I always thought that the MCBR would be better served with 180 cargo instead of 120. Early game strategy would benefit as would planetary assault and mine fields later. It also needs more crew, about 250. I would trade the 4 beams and 4 torps for 6 beams and 2 torps. The Pirates main ability is rob ship, but let's not forget the 3x beam weapon damage. I've never understood why the majority of their ships are lacking beam's. Even the Bloodfang only has 7.

The Bloodfang is a useless ship IMHO. It can't stand up against any cruiser class ship in the game. Like many others point out, it can take planets provided they don't have a SB. There are easier and smarter ways to get a planet without a starbase than using a Bloodyfang. It's an absolutely crap hull. Given the predliction of the Pirates to use beams, this ship should have 1 more beam weapon, a heavier hull and more crew.

The Lady Royal is a useless ship IMHO. A fast pirate strategy looses out with this ship and having to dredge them around for fuel sucking late in the game is no fun. Stealing 670 fuel is better accomplished with MCBR's and a few SL's en mass. It's not until the pack starts to run low on SL's that the Lady is of any use and by then, you have stolen other ships to act as SL's or ships that have larger fuel capacity, better engines and better offensive firepower than the Lady. Not to mention that one miscalculation or a bad guess as to which hop to make and all your Lady's are going down.

To make the Lady of any use at all would require adding cargo room. 160 is to small to generate any revenue of use (gambling ship). You need 4 of them at least to make any kind of impact in this game. 320 cargo would be better. Even then, the ship is relegated to generating revenue or hauling Moly and for that the LDF is still way better suited.

Yes, I would make the Lady a cloaker with 320 cargo, 380 fuel, 6 beams and 3 torps. Tech 7 hull. Double the crew as well - they have to have servers and wait staff afterall.

The Little Pest is a stinking turd of a ship with only one purpose. Mine sweeping and a couple of MBR's acting as SL's get that job done nicely anyway. Ironically, the Pest is the only ship that has any kind of beam weaponry in numbers, but I've seen freighters last longer in a fight. Can this thing even take out a Borg probe? This ship, with 6 heavy disruptor's should be able to capture a number of other ships in the game, alas, it explodes after 1 round of firing it's beam weapons, provided the enemy doesn't have torps where it just explodes or is captured before it even gets a shot in.

I would scrap the D7a Painmaker completely and swap it for the Falcon. Even if the D7a becomes a cloaker there is still no reason to build it when you have access to the MCBR. I built one once. Haven't built one since.

What the heck is the old Skyfire for anyway? I like what you've proposed above.

The one thing that has bothered me more than anything else are the Grav engines. I've never used a D3, Skyfire, Red Wind or Dwarfstar. No grav engines make them a liability in a fast Priate strategy. You would think that the pirates would be able to put Grav engines on whichever ship they wanted. I mean, come on... Every Transwarp engine the pirates build should be Grav. I never understood why they were limited to the MBR's. It should be limited by engines. Only transwarp's mind you, but every transwarp engine they pack in a ship, regardless.

Well, that's my poke at the pirates. Good luck with the project. & sorry for reviving a dead post.

Thanks again for the opportunity to rant a little.

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Six_Of_One
Posts: 1078
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Post#6 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:32 am

SO you're suggesting the privateers should be able to have gravitronic merlins/STF's ??? and a cloaking lady royal with gravatronic engines as well.........

Shewt......... to counter that every other race would need the ability to build lokis :shock:
Last edited by Six_Of_One on Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#7 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 6:25 pm

interesting....

i like it the topic gets a little revival after all. i have some time again to bother so i will do exactly that.

first i lets talk about the mbr: i think this shop is not perfect after all, but it accomplishes the tasks it was build for exceptionally well. it seeks and steals!

my mbrs normally carry some clans and some torps - nothing special. if i want more clans i find myself a freighter and steal it. hopefully there were plenty of goodies on board... fuel capacity is large enough. hull is exactly low enough to be fully aware of any minefields in the area - BOOOOM!
6 beams? well it would be nice and i agree that you do not use the 4 toprs often. i see many ppl putting fewer tubes on their mbrs or even none - especially against crystals ;)
5 beams would make the mbr a little too strong, since you can easily get your ships equipped with heavy phasers soon. that would sweep jsut a little too much i say.

the lady? well i constantly struggle with the thought of giving her more cargo. 300 is used in AQ-scenarios and it works very well. a little too well one might add. since you can use the exceptionally big fuel tank as a weapon and a pirate should always have some ready to drain those massive incoming fleets right a way, the 160 extra cash are just an add on. i would however raise cargo to 200 because i like round numbers ;) Another thing is the double use of the ship. since the colonies would also gain from a much bigger cargo and they definitely do not need any more money since they already got everything for free!

there are many useless ships in the priv list. most of them are "stolen" hulls. but those hulls should be adjusted to their "owner's" needs.

the skyfire is a priv hull as far as i know, therefore i proposed the adjustments to priv needs. the bloodfang should have another fighter bay - i agree. but it must not get really strong. privs do not fight with their own weapons. they lend what they need...... and never give back - those dirty bastards ;)

a hyper in the shiplist would be too unbalancing too. it could supply any ships far away with fuel. that would make a privs life unnecessarily easier.

and i do not think you would capture more ships, if the mbr or the bloodfang would have more beams, because they either fight another warship and lose or they fight a transport and capture it. the 3x bonus just helps to not destroy the precious "gift".

well, this is of course all open to discussion....
have fun!

hennef

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Hawkeye
Posts: 1030

Post#8 » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:37 pm

Strixy wrote: The Pirates main ability is rob ship, but let's not forget the 3x beam weapon damage.
Just to clarify, the Privs only gain 3x kill on their beam weapons, not 3x hull damage :wink:


Overall the Privs have the tools they need to get the job done, however there are a number of ships in the fleet that just never get built. When playing the Priv I tend to only build the BR4, BR5, LDSF, MCBR and occasionally the Dwarfstar and LR. Everything else has really little or no purpose, and therefore should either be a) wiped off the list, or b) adjusted so that it can serve some form of role within the game.

The Bloodfang should stay in, and an extra beam or fighter bay wouldn't hurt either, or as Tei suggested, give it a cloaking device.

Scrap the Red Wind. It's just too ineffective, even with a cloaking device.

The Little Pest has the potential to be a valuable asset in the Priv fleet. It just needs more crew / bigger mass, and perhaps either a grav or cloak.

Small transport - if it lost the beams, but gained grav and a cloak, then it would make a good money shuttle.

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#9 » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:18 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
Strixy wrote: The Pirates main ability is rob ship, but let's not forget the 3x beam weapon damage.
Just to clarify, the Privs only gain 3x kill on their beam weapons, not 3x hull damage :wink:


Overall the Privs have the tools they need to get the job done, however there are a number of ships in the fleet that just never get built. When playing the Priv I tend to only build the BR4, BR5, LDSF, MCBR and occasionally the Dwarfstar and LR. Everything else has really little or no purpose, and therefore should either be a) wiped off the list, or b) adjusted so that it can serve some form of role within the game.

The Bloodfang should stay in, and an extra beam or fighter bay wouldn't hurt either, or as Tei suggested, give it a cloaking device.

Scrap the Red Wind. It's just too ineffective, even with a cloaking device.

The Little Pest has the potential to be a valuable asset in the Priv fleet. It just needs more crew / bigger mass, and perhaps either a grav or cloak.

Small transport - if it lost the beams, but gained grav and a cloak, then it would make a good money shuttle.
i agree on those things, but it will be difficult to do. in normal host at least. but in general i agree taht the privs work well with the ships they have.

btw, the red wind is a nice trade for the colonies. but it should have 4 bays to be a really nice ships. little cloaking cruiserkiller ;)
have fun!

hennef

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