VGA Frustration

Want a VGA Planets game with custom settings? Have an idea for a tournament? Post it here.

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BitMask
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Post#31 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:40 am

None of these suggestions is possible with Auto Troll. It will all be a very manual thing and lots of work to manage.

I suggest you motivate your fellow players to keep in the game.

wyvern
Posts: 28

Post#32 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:02 pm

Donavan

Your point is well taken, however, practically speaking that is exactly what is currently happening. Almost every game I have joined has had multiple players quit early in the game. Yet, they continued to play or even join other games. This at least suggests to me it is not "real life" issues.

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive to players leaving the game for what I believe are no good reason, except to possibly join a different game.

However, I enjoy the challenge of playing against real players who compete to win. I think it is the way the game is supposed to be played. Call the games Hard Core and Casual for all I care, but wouldn't it be nice to play a game where 3 or 4 players do not leave between turns 15 through 35?

Let the laws of supply and demand govern the number of games of each kind Havok makes available. If the No Quiters/Hardcore games fill rapidly, then you will see more of them. The No Frills/Casual games continue as they always have been.

And as I have said all along, maybe there is not even a market for the No Quiters Games. I really have no idea.

wyvern

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B A N E
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2 werdz

Post#33 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:33 pm

Invitation games
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Rimstalker
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Post#34 » Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:36 pm

I think I am approaching half full point. And I haven't even reached out to some of the rcworld vets.
Wirklich reich ist, wer mehr | Truly rich is, who holds
Träume in seiner Seele hat, | more dreams in his soul
als die Realität zerstören kann.| than reality can destroy.

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Diamondback
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Post#35 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:19 am

As an alternative, we could create a forum post called "Quitters". Post the players names and games they quit for all to see. I then suggest as long as the player is a "Quitter" in the games all other players target them for immediate distruction in all games they play. Never ally with them or help as long as they continue this behavior. Eventually the player will get the message and play out the full game(s) or stop signing up and messing up the games for the rest of us. This would also be maintained by the players without Havok or BitMask getting any added tasks to maintain.
Judgement of the players by the players.

To harsh or a justifiable option? What say you?

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B A N E
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Post#36 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:59 pm

A public black list?

I can see merits and problems.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Shardin5
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Post#37 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:30 pm

B A N E wrote:A public black list?

I can see merits and problems.
Addition to the Black list, a few things that ruin games even more than a player dropping.
Players that go into games with preset up alliances, over and over and over again. With a list of players they like to ally with.
Players that love Mega alliances, something that ruins more and more games.
Players, and their Allies, that love to vote, to end games 50-40 turns before the end, just as things are heating up, to keep from getting their Arses kicked.
Players that ally even in no allied allowed games.

Were I haven't been able to follow this thread until just now, and since I was called out, thought I would post in it.
Since I started replaying VGA planets, the only games I have dropped have been Cheron, and unfortunatly Blind Head Hunter. Che'Ron, great game, spoiled by 2 players that had to quit, as they didn't read the no Allies part, and two more players that have really bent the rules on no allies, just tired of dealing with a an alliance in a NO Allies game.

Blind Headhunter, was do to bad timing with traveling, and would love for the game to restart myself. I have no ideas what happened to the game myself, loved everything about it. RL unexpected travel got in the way. International business travel with a laptop just doesn't happen anymore, and asking for a game to be paused for 3-4 weeks just doesn't work either, sorry you guys don't understand RL work, and how it effects things.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Hawkeye
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Post#38 » Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:05 pm

Gents,

The problem we have here is multi-faceted. I can appreciate both sides of the coin, as I've been there before as I'm sure most you already have as well.

The problems are:

(a) Nobody likes playing up against the computer player, especially the Q, as it's a hollow victory, and

(b) Hardly anyone likes playing in what's obviously going to be a losing situation, where your territory slowly gets whittled away to nothing over the span of 50-odd turns. It's no fun.

The problems of imposing any form of penalty on any player is that if they know they'll be penalised, they can just whip out the old RL card and "legally" quit the game. Alternative methods of getting out of the game include colonising all ships and tax-killing all planets (ie suicide). A third method is to not put in three turns, and then put in a "ghost" turn so as to avoid being auto-dropped. Handing a losing situation over to another player is another devious option. Final option is to tough it out, and spend the next 30-50 turns regretting joining the game and/or your choice of race, as you're really not enjoying losing. I'm sure you can probably think of a few other methods of getting around the system.


The problems with a blacklist are (a) Administratively it's more work for our hosts, (b) Deliberately targeting quitters on the list in a new game is only going to make it harder for them in the game, and thus give them more reason to quit, and (c) nobody likes a bad reputation, and therefore they're likely to implement some of the aforementioned methods to stay off the list.

Therefore penalties of any form won't necessarily work, and we only have this current situation because peeps can quit without being penalised. Further, most players that quit do so because they see themselves in a losing situation and continued play isnt going to change anything (ignoring the genuine RL-issue players of course). Implementing some form of system to check to see if the player is *actually* playing the turn (rather than just processing the RST) is also unrealistic

From what I've seen so far, (IMHO) the best options are

(1) Start up the "no quitters" games. These could be renamed to something like "dedicated" games, "committed" games, or "to the death" games etc. This won't advocate the quitting of other games, but merely provide a game where commited players can meet.

(2) Have a threshold for normal games where it's actually considered okay to quit (say when score is 10% of the leaders?). Now before you get all up in arms about this - take the poor borg player in NF83 for example. His last starbase was destroyed ten turns ago, and he's only got two cubes left defending a couple of planets. With little fuel onboard and no means of building a new starbase, his situation is hopeless (heck even if he did manage to build a starbase, it would get taken by ground combat anyways). Nevertheless, he's still putting his turns in long after other players have already quit. Good on ya mate for sticking it out this far :thumbup: but if I were in a similar situation I would have wanted to throw in the towel ages ago. I would not hold anything against him if he decided to call it a day on this one, as he's already gone well beyond what I would consider a reasonable threshold.

Hawkeye.

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Six_Of_One
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Post#39 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:06 am

Diamondback wrote:As an alternative, we could create a forum post called "Quitters". Post the players names and games they quit for all to see. I then suggest as long as the player is a "Quitter" in the games all other players target them for immediate distruction in all games they play. Never ally with them or help as long as they continue this behavior. Eventually the player will get the message and play out the full game(s) or stop signing up and messing up the games for the rest of us. This would also be maintained by the players without Havok or BitMask getting any added tasks to maintain.
Judgement of the players by the players.

To harsh or a justifiable option? What say you?
Catch 22.. if you don't ally or help them and seek to destroy them first then they cant change. :roll:

IMHO a childish option to a problem that does not have an easy solution. If you know there a several players who tend to drop and see they have signed up for a game.. don't join.

The bottom line is only the host or one of his helpers can actually solved the problem.. once a player has been identified as a regular dropper, they need to have a quiet word with him/her. Suggest they won't be allowed to join any more games if this trend continues, or perhaps they would be happier playing on another site.

A quitters forum is nothing more than a witch hunt. A player misses a few turns for whatever reason ans suddenly some outraged player lists them whilst spilling copious amounts of unnecessary tears. :cry:

Droppers are why i don't/never will again play team games. My choice, as for all other games i just deal with whatever happens, after all it is only a game.

Who knows, i might be in the Guinness book of records for being the first player to be beaten by Q. :shock:
"Just because you can do a thing,
Doesn't mean you should."

Paarthurnax the Dragon
Elder Scrolls-Skyrim

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