Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#1 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:42 am

Hey guys - Welcome to the "Stale Turn Bar and Grill". Grab a beer and pull up a chair. The reason I asked you here is to pick your brains for ideas about the AQ mod - particularly Race 11 - the Maquis.

From the AQ Docs:

"The Maquis have an mix of good low-end starships from a variety of races. They excel at making the most of fighters and small ships of all types, but suffer from a lack of major capital ships."

RACE ADVANTAGES:
- Can use fighters to mine sweep
- Can build fighters in space
- Can clone captured enemy ships


http://www.circus-maximus.com/aq20.htm

As I mentioned in the AQ7 Forum, I've felt that the Maquis really didn't pan out as well as I'd hoped. I envisioned them as the only real fighter race in the game, but balanced them by not having access to heavier ship classes.

So I'm asking your opinion of the Maquis.

8) - You're nuts, Klauser. The Maquis are fine ... if played by the right player.

:wink: - The Maquis need some re-tooling, and here's how you do it ...

:lol: - The Maquis are crap. You need to start from scratch with a new race.


I encourage any opinions from anyone - particularly from those of you who have played an AQ game.

I can't promise any immediate changes, but if I get a good enough feedback base, I will consider making an updated AQ mod.

Anyway, I've taken enough of your time. Enjoy the rest of your ... hey, HEY!! Do NOT pick fights with the Vorlon in the corner. It took me months to collect on the insurance last time!!
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

Gavan
Posts: 879

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#2 » Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:19 pm

Hi Klauser,

Once again great work on AQ. Always fun to play.

As for the Maquis I think with some re-tooling they could be saved.

The first problem is their race advantages are of limited advantage due to the setup in AQ.

- Can use fighters to mine sweep

It is a nice advantage but since mine field max is set to 75lys and can be swept 25 lys outside of that this race advantage is not all the special. The Maquis also do not have a fighter ship with more than 72 cargo which limits the number of mines that can be cleared by one ship. (The current setting is 5 mines per fighter)

- Can build fighters in space

Also has its uses but since almost all races get 3 fights free per SB, the Maquis do not have any large fighter warships and resources are never short in AQ it is also not very helpful.

As to how to improve the Maquis I suggest they need at medium size cloaking warship. Something the size of a NOREXAN or AERIE. Big enough to take down a SB in pairs or a larger warship but not enough to allow them to go head on against the larger warship races. It would also not hurt to increase either the 5 mines per fighter sweep rate or the size of the cargo bay on the VICTORY.
Just cause I am paranoid does not mean they are not out to get me.

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FLETCH
Posts: 1440

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#3 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:21 am

Having a particular race that could dominate fighter production should in theory make them a sought after companion, which is what the Maquis need to be as they are not strong enough to go it alone. The problem with AQ as it stands is that, as Gavan said, each SB gets 3 fighters per turn. More importantly, once your economy is up and running and you start to engage in regular battle, the very rich resources mean you can stock your own carriers without too much trouble. Before too long most of your planets have rich SBs. For example, AQ7 is currently on turn 100. There are 493 inhabited planets and 420 of them have SBs. How many regular games have that high a ratio of SBs to planets? This negates any advantage the Maquis offer after the initial set up phase of the game.

How can you fix it?
Buggered if I know... :D
FLETCH


667 The NEIGHBOUR of the BEAST!

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Burnerboy
Posts: 412

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#4 » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:46 pm

I think you should eliminate the Federation E/S Bonus and Romulan cloaking.

Ron

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#5 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:34 am

Burnerboy wrote:I think you should eliminate the Federation E/S Bonus and Romulan cloaking.

Ron

Outside of PHost, I don't see THAT happening!
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

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Havok
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Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#6 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 2:48 pm

Hey the Maquis were wiped out on the STTNG shows right? Why not do the same thing in this scenario! :bang: :stirthepot:
Regards,
][avok

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#7 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:08 am

Hehehe ... that would make a REAL short, brutal game for Player 11!

:stars: :violent:
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

Andor
Posts: 105

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#8 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:34 pm

I'm no Star Trek connoisseur, that said ... what is everyones thoughts on removing the Marquis, moving the Dominion to Race 11, and inserting the Betazoid as Race 8? Only reason I would think them a better fit is because they're telepathic and that's kinda what Dark Sense is. I would suggest they have ships like the Federation as they have collaborated frequently throughout Star Trek history.

Or, the Klingons may not like this .... how about the Tribbles as Race 11?

That's a joke of course :lol:

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#9 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:21 pm

Burnerboy wrote:I think you should eliminate the Federation E/S Bonus and Romulan cloaking.

Ron
Pssst...Ron, he's not talking about AQ7. He's talking about AQ as a scenario!
[-X
>>> Raven <<<

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Raven2
Posts: 538

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#10 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:46 pm

A few thoughts on the Maquis....

First, the idea of a race that HAS to team with another race to be successful is fundamentally flawed. I love the idea in theory (I'm a Romulan at heart who can't help sticking his nose in other people's fights), but it just doesn't work in practice. However, I think they can be fixed.
In keeping with the Star Trek story, the Maquis were freedom fighters (or terrorists, depending on your point of view) who saw the peace treaty between the Federation and the Cardassians as a betrayal of the Bajorans and others whom the Cardassians had slaughtered and/or enslaved. The Maquis was comprised primarily of Bajorans and Federation defectors of various races.
So, if you want to make the Maquis the main fighter race, why not allow them to share the Fed's fighter bay bonus? It fits both the story and the desire to improve the race.
The Maquis made do with whatever ships they could press into service, converting freighters to other purposes. So, if you consider the Victory a modified freighter, then you should increase it's cargo room accordingly. Giving it a cargo capacity of several hundred tons would enable it to build fighters. This, along with the Fed figher bonus, would make it a threat in combat without being overwhelming. And, outside of Maquis or Fed hands, it's effectiveness decreases considerably.
Also, since the Maquis have their origin within the Federation, perhaps a few Federation captains defected. You could give the Maquis the Chandley Class Carrier. This would give them a small (Patriot), medium (Chandley), and medium-heavy (Victory) carrier.
Finally, the Maquis cause was attractive to the Klingons -- the idea of fighting for an honorable cause and all. Perhaps the Maquis acquired the K'tinga -- this would give them the capablity to expand somewhat stealthily and get their feet under them before being discovered early and massacred.

Just a few thoughts...
>>> Raven <<<

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BitMask
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Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#11 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:25 am

I don't think you can give the fed bonus to any other slot other than 1 in Tim host. (Not yet anyway - my host32 version is still in alpha stages)

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Klauser
Posts: 991

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#12 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:53 am

As I recall, Bitmask is correct. You can't give the fighter bay bonus to another race in THost (although PHost could).

Andor, the problem with creating a race like the Betazoids is that there is almost NO lore or background or ships - so basically you'd be creating the race from scratch. I had enought problems with limited ships with the Maquis - you'll note the obvious overlaps of ships with the Feds and the Orions. Very few Maquis-specific ships. That said, if you have any specific ideas on how to pull it off, I'd be glad to hear them.

Thanks to all for your comments and ideas. This kind of input is exactly what I had hoped for.
Klauser

"Any ship can be a minesweeper ... once!"

Andor
Posts: 105

Re: Alpha Quadrant Mod - Changes??

Post#13 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 1:02 pm

Sadly I don't know enough about the lore to help. I only mentioned it because I feel this is like brainstorming and hoped someone else would be able to expand the idea. Raven2's idea was more thought out and once host32 is finished it can maybe become a reality.

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