The Klingon Empire

Post here if you are interested in the balancing of the Tim branded shiplist

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Shardin5
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The Klingon Empire

Post#1 » Thu Apr 06, 2006 6:51 pm

Post ideas about ships for the Klingon's. This should be used in helping Zap and Bane come up with a new shiplist. Post Ideas about exceptable race advantages too
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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B A N E
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Post#2 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:28 pm

FASCIST

Only two problematic hulls...the rest do serve functions.
Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43

D7a is broken due to the Coldpain.
As a general minesweeper, it used to be outclassed by both the
Nefarious and Saber, but now their purpose is kamikaze.
So, overbeam this ship (general fascist concept).
It's got eight beams, it can sweep, it can escort, it can protect
freight within limits. Bump tech to 3.

Valiant Wind CV___6__2__7__3__-__322__180__190____80__380__61__52_123
NValiant Wind CV__6__2__7__4__-__322__180__190____80__380__61__52_123
Same problem as the birds...give it one more bay and this ship can
fight its' way out of a wet paper bag. Fourth bay solves the bug in
host regarding 3 or less bays.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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B A N E
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More thoughts.

Post#3 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:43 pm

Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Ok, after more thinking, 8 beams is still not a reason to build this ship.
So, I figured, majorly bump up the cargo to 480 and this thing is
the fascist's armed freighter. Needs more fuel too.
No Torps as I think that would be too much.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#4 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:50 pm

I still think the Deth Specula Frigate, needs some help. There is a reason why the birds don't make them, and the Klingon's don't have a heavy hitter cloaker like the Resolute or the Darkwing, or a Battle advantage like the Gorn. The D3 is also a worthless hull.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#5 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:21 pm

Enemy#1 wrote:I still think the Deth Specula Frigate, needs some help. There is a reason why the birds don't make them, and the Klingon's don't have a heavy hitter cloaker like the Resolute or the Darkwing, or a Battle advantage like the Gorn. The D3 is also a worthless hull.
yes true. the thorn is crap and the DS only marginally better.
i think you need more deffined roles for both of them. make the thorn cheaper and the DS a bit stronger with a cargo of 60.
have fun!

hennef

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Re: More thoughts.

Post#6 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:25 pm

B A N E wrote:Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Ok, after more thinking, 8 beams is still not a reason to build this ship.
So, I figured, majorly bump up the cargo to 480 and this thing is
the fascist's armed freighter. Needs more fuel too.
No Torps as I think that would be too much.
i like that idea of the D7a. bit drastic though. 300 cargo would be sufficient. makes it the ill-winds smaller brother..... thinking more about it.... keep it at 480, or you would invest the money to build the ill-wind instead. a bit more cargo for the D7 would be a good idea too.
have fun!

hennef

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Re: More thoughts.

Post#7 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:36 pm

B A N E wrote:Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Ok, after more thinking, 8 beams is still not a reason to build this ship.
So, I figured, majorly bump up the cargo to 480 and this thing is
the fascist's armed freighter. Needs more fuel too.
No Torps as I think that would be too much.
What about giving your AD7a more of a cargo like the ruby 370 vs 480, darn thing still doesn't cloak, but add 50 to the Coldpain to 150, more on par with its counter part ship the LCC, still not as powerful, at least the Coldpain would be closer
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Re: More thoughts.

Post#8 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:38 pm

hennef wrote:
B A N E wrote:Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Ok, after more thinking, 8 beams is still not a reason to build this ship.
So, I figured, majorly bump up the cargo to 480 and this thing is
the fascist's armed freighter. Needs more fuel too.
No Torps as I think that would be too much.
Hen,
We were posting at the sametime with the about the same idea, Scary Very Scary

i like that idea of the D7a. bit drastic though. 300 cargo would be sufficient. makes it the ill-winds smaller brother..... thinking more about it.... keep it at 480, or you would invest the money to build the ill-wind instead. a bit more cargo for the D7 would be a good idea too.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Re: More thoughts.

Post#9 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:47 pm

Enemy#1 wrote:
B A N E wrote:Hull Name________TL__E__B__F__T_Crew_Mass_Fuel_Cargo_Cost_Tri_Dur_Mol
D7a Painmaker CC__2__2__4__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
ND7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__230___120___90__81__42__43
AD7a Painmaker CC_3__2__8__-__-__352__170__360___480___90__81__42__43

Ok, after more thinking, 8 beams is still not a reason to build this ship.
So, I figured, majorly bump up the cargo to 480 and this thing is
the fascist's armed freighter. Needs more fuel too.
No Torps as I think that would be too much.
What about giving your AD7a more of a cargo like the ruby 370 vs 480, darn thing still doesn't cloak, but add 50 to the Coldpain to 150, more on par with its counter part ship the LCC, still not as powerful, at least the Coldpain would be closer
yea. that is what i had in mind :)
have fun!

hennef

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B A N E
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Post#10 » Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:28 pm

To explain my thinking.

Some of it has been touched on.
If it is marginally more cost to get similar results, the margin will
be paid.

Thus, the reason for the much bigger cargo and no torps.
It's not a mine layer, it's not an Illwind.

This thing can operate as a multifunction tender for the fleet.
Vicky? Small Cargo
Illwind @260 has great cargo.
Coldpain @100 has small cargo.
Deth & D3 small cargo.
So, toss in a 170kt-8beam-480 cargo escort cruiser.
Yup, put some heavy beams like H.Blasters and small cloakers
will regret aiming for it.

480 Cargo?
Almost 100pts in hull repairs.
Almost 5 reloads on a Coldpain.
Almost 2 reloads on an Illwind.
And as for the Deth and D3, well, that's like 10 reloads. 8)

I can see lots of applications for a heavy cargo D7.

(Don't tell the privies, they get it too)
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#11 » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:32 pm

I would still like to see some more options here, I love the Klingon's but they get waxed down the road in a game, unless you have a good ally. I love to play them just to drive people crazy, but its frustrating even with all the poppers and they hit the target correctly, they don't have many good combo's to fight later on by themselves, the extra FB to the Carrier helps but run the sim's still doesn't help that much.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

User avatar
Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#12 » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:32 pm

I would still like to see some more options here, I love the Klingon's but they get waxed down the road in a game, unless you have a good ally. I love to play them just to drive people crazy, but its frustrating even with all the poppers and they hit the target correctly, they don't have many good combo's to fight later on by themselves, the extra FB to the Carrier helps but run the sim's still doesn't help that much.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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the.Ant
Posts: 283

Post#13 » Tue Apr 11, 2006 5:15 am

I wouldn't think to know enough about all significant mechanisms of the game, but I agree in your assessment of the fascists. Fun to play as an annoyance, but heavily dependant on a strong ally. They have ONE decent ships for fighting and that is inferior to all other big battleships.
Sure you can combine with glory device, but that again means you have to build more ships than the enemy, have to coordinate more ships AND have to be lucky that the glorydevice really hits its target, which is the really annoying part. Fly somewhere and let it explode, if the enemy moved you wasted a ship, damage your supporting ships AND he knows that you were coming for him.
The way it is now, a whole fleet of medium sized fascist ships get easily eaten by the battleships of other races. The Fascist fleet definitely needs ships with either a bit more punch, or the ability to survive a bit longer (i.e. more mass). Thinking about the Klingons, I think that the first would suit the race better. Shouldn't be a problem to trow some small ships as cannonfodder at the enemy if they would at least do some damage. But they just die to easily, or (depends how you see it) don't shoot fast enough. More tubes!

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hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#14 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:51 am

one (just do not remember who) posted a thing about each race having one special bonus like mines x4, with the fascists having beams +2.

the ill wind has 10 beams compared to the 8 of emerald, resolute, missy....
the death specula has 6 beams. 2/3 more than nebula, cygnus, guardian...
the little pest has more beams than reptile, br4. same as little joe.

but the d7 has the same amount of beams like any other ship of that class: cat´s paw, tranquility, ruby, saurian, nocturne.
the d7a should have more beams.
the thorn has only two.
the vikki can not have more than 10 beams.

regarding the above statement, the fascists still need more beams. or other weapons.

i think they should be more like the orcs of warhammer 40k :roll:

more custom. more stupid rokkitz. more GUNZ!!! 8)
have fun!

hennef

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#15 » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:28 am

Regarding further changes.

Conceptually, I agree.
Coldpain should probably get 2 more beams. But then that makes its'
strike ability almost equivalent and in some ways superior to the Deth.

If we then up the Deth, the Birds get it also and then the Deth becomes
better in combat than the Resolute.

Fun with dominoes.

FTR, in v2, the write up of the fascists was that they had twice as many
beams as the rest of the races. When v3 showed up, that was still in
the description (don't know if it still is) but was no longer true.

The only way to make such a description true is to downgrade the beam
count on all enemy warships across the board including BBs.

Nova = 5b/10t
TRex = 5b/5t
DW=5b/8t
Anni=5b/10t

Combat wise, that doesn't really affect the other BB's much.

IMO, in the PHost version, quite doable...but in the TimFix, I would
expect a great deal of resistance.
Envisioning a 20beam 2 torp Illwind! :twisted:

The one major drawback to downgrading the beam# of the various
races would be that minefield sweeping would take a huge hit except
for the fascists.

Something worth considering though.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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