5 man team challenge

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

5 man team challenge

Post#1 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:42 pm

Any 5 man teams that want to rumble?

:D

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Krait
Posts: 110

Post#2 » Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:57 pm

Not sure I can get in another until I clean up one of the two I'm in now....and neither show any signs of imminient end.

What setup, race assignment would you be expecting for a 5 v 5?
been there, done that...

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#3 » Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:35 pm

No voteing, 5 vs 5 pirates out, your team looses 3 SB ends the game.

Each team has captain,
Captain 1 picks 1 race,
Captain 2 picks 2 races,
Captain 1 picks 2 races,
Captain 2 picks 2 races,
Captain 1 picks 2 races,
Captain 2 gets the remaning 2 races.
To be discussed, HW placement, Map Config, add ons if any.

Generaly a Void between the 2 teams 200 lys and the teams can pick where their HWs are placed.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#4 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:23 pm

Interesting math ya got there Casey.

T1 gets 1 + 2 + 2 = 5
T2 gets 2 + 2 + 2 = 6
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#5 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:30 pm

oops, your interested in my math :D

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#6 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:21 am

I'm not interested in a team game but wouldn't the fairest thing be to simply pair the opposites vs eachother? Rebel on one team, Empire on the other. Same with Robots and Colonies. The rest of the races are a bit less distinct, but say Feds vs Lizards, Birds vs Fascists and Borg vs Crystals (oddest match-up of all). Basically and even split. Though which one goes where might be a harder issue to resolve.

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#7 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:45 am

Not really interested in playing in such a game either, more interested in if anyone know or can figure out a reasonable split of races.

If one considder all players equal, it is in most cases possiable to predict who will win a game just by looking at the races and the universe setup.

Ok - that is not only a problem in team games.

Last time I witnessed such a pick of races for a team game those playing could have saved themself the trouble of playing. One team made a very bad choice and newer had a chance to win.

If selection is done the usual way the best players get the best race mix making the game over before it start.

So I would suggest you try balancing the races first and then draw between the alliances. That way the game should be most equal. No one can make a poor selection, with the result that playing the game is simply waste of time.

Balancing the alliances this way is probaly going to be hard enough.

Next thing to balance is the team members. Have all the best players in one team the outcome is easily predicted. The best two players should be on different teams. That way both teams should be able to see what the others try to do.

Good luck with the race selection. Looking forward to see if you come up with something reasonable.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#8 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:09 am

Capt. Blood brings up good points.

Race splitting is difficult and IMO, chunnel should be off unless the
host is willing to edit in a firecloud to the team that does not have borg.
There is just no way to counter the chunnel advantage in a team game.
It's arguable whether or not Pirate counters borg in a team game.

As for preset teams, they're good in theory but that too is debatable
on what an equal split would be. Some parts are obvious.

Split the Fed & Liz
Split the Bird & Fascist
Split the Borg & Empire
Split the Crystal & Bots
Split the Rebel & CofM

Then comes the question of how to group them.

Fed +3 fbays and +25% recharge between rounds and all weapons fire
is HUGE in a team game. Much more powerful than Liz +50% hull.

So an example might be:
Fed, Fascist, Empire, Bots, CofM
vs
Liz, Bird, Borg, Crystal, Rebel


The advantage of the 1:2:2:2:2:1 selection process is that it does
change up the game. 5v5's aren't big anymore so that's not as big
a deal. This method does display racial experience between teams.

As for splitting up the best players, logically, I agree, but practically,
I don't.

I've gamed with all levels of players and some players work well
together and some don't. Just ask Casebolt about our verbal wars
with our team mates when we were members of a long running
5man team. And we gamed for years through many 5man games.
(We were sorta compatible!)

Who determines which players are the best?
If two good but incompatible players get put together, that will likely
undermine their team as a whole.

Some good solo players are lousy team players.

After a previous experience being teamed with someone I didn't have
a clue about, I would be loathe to game in a 5man (high stress game)
with a group I did NOT have experience and compatibility with.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#9 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:33 pm

5 vs 5 games are most enjoyable when your team is made up of people you allready know and get along with. I would not advise to get in any 5 man team game with someone you dont know or dont get along with.

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Logain
Posts: 720

Post#10 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:27 pm

casebolt wrote:5 vs 5 games are most enjoyable when your team is made up of people you allready know and get along with. I would not advise to get in any 5 man team game with someone you dont know or dont get along with.
Wouldn't that imply that you have to get along with at least four other players? Seems a bit of a stretch for some folks these days :D

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#11 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:29 pm

casebolt wrote:5 vs 5 games are most enjoyable when your team is made up of people you allready know and get along with. I would not advise to get in any 5 man team game with someone you dont know or dont get along with.
Nothing quite like having a team mate commit a colossal almost game
ending blunder and the other four team members berate him for it...
then spending the next 20 turns cleaning up the mess.

Oh the memories.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

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Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#12 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:01 pm

casebolt wrote:5 vs 5 games are most enjoyable when your team is made up of people you allready know and get along with. I would not advise to get in any 5 man team game with someone you dont know or dont get along with.
When friends meet to play a soccer match they also try to balance the teams to have the most fun for those participating. In that way vga is no different, at least not when you seek the challenge more than the victory.

So assuming the amount of mistakes a player makes during game is not deciding for who one get along with I agree with you.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#13 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:06 pm

I had been anoyed by one that did attack me in a 5 vs 5 and he was a teamate.

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B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#14 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:42 pm

Capt.Blood,

What you suggest requires 10 players willing to play with each other
no matter who they are grouped with. After assembling 10 players
that are willing, how would you suggest that the players be ranked?

This is interesting...
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#15 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 7:17 am

B A N E wrote:Capt.Blood,

What you suggest requires 10 players willing to play with each other
no matter who they are grouped with. After assembling 10 players
that are willing, how would you suggest that the players be ranked?

This is interesting...
That is naturally also a problem, and not that easy. Taking a look at the list of winners of past games tells something about the better players. Still some victories come cheap.

Next thing to look for is if player always survive even if they do not make it into top 3. Look at position in current games, and compare with races and who is above. If you know players above it tells something about the others strenght as well.

Until you have meet a player in battle it is difficult to know how good he is compared to yourself. But once you have played in a game and looked at how they build, move and fight you get a pretty good feeling of there strenght and weakness.

So one need to know a little about players to rank them. Still when one look at 2 or 3 players in a five man team, who are represented in the list of winners taking on 5 who have not made it there yet, the outcome is predictable.

The easiest way to make teams would probaly be to let one or two players, who know most of the players set the teams. Most likely it will not be completely fair, but I am pretty sure it will give a better balance to the game than almost any other ways of setting the teams. Those who set the teams should not be part of the same team.
Regards,

Captain Blood

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