Creating Criteria/guideline for voting to end a game.

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#61 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:00 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:
Logain wrote::chair: :dh:
Couldn't have said it better. How can you argue logic with a guy who thinks a vote that was cast AFTER I cast my vote could possibly have influenced my vote? Maybe a rift in the space time continuum???

Is there any point continuing here or are we going to keep on going around in ever decreasing circles until we disappear up our own butts?
No a vote cast after yours wont effect your vote. POSTING there are enough votes to end the game when you have no idea of the votes are real or not CAN effect votes. Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote. Pretty sad thing
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Gilgamesh
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Post#62 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:06 pm

Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote.
:dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Logain
Posts: 720

Post#63 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 4:45 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:
Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote.
:dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
I bet you poke at tooth aches too... :roll:

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Shardin5
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Post#64 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:28 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:
Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote.
:dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
Game is over yes, facts are facts though. In the POLL even though posted, there were never the votes to actually close it. 2 Phantom votes.
Really sad that on a 5-4 vote a game can end.
I am willing to move on, I just want some standard of voting. Sorry it really rubs the WRONG F'in way, that a game can end that has just passed the halfway point, and had lots of playing left to do in it. 2nd and 3rd were not set, nor who was going to end up being 3rd a set. WAY to many player have run up score picking on CPU players and then fall like a rock, when faced with human players.
Trust me, I could have lobbied 1 player, as we talked about it, and the vote would have been 5-4 the other way, just no real reason to continue.

I just want to put an end to these oh sorry, are 3 headed alliance wants
to quit now and there are enough 2-3 other players that are getting thier arse's kicked lets launch a surprise poll to end the game, as we have made ourselves ready for the end. 125 game with a vote option is one thing, ending a game at turn 74, with no hint of anybody wanting it to an end can live a nasty taste in somebody's mouth.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#65 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:29 pm

Logain wrote:
Gilgamesh wrote:
Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote.
:dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
I bet you poke at tooth aches too... :roll:
Wouldn't know about tooth aches, 45 and I have never had a cavity.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Gilgamesh
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Post#66 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:51 pm

Shardin5 wrote: Wouldn't know about tooth aches, 45 and I have never had a cavity.
You didn't grow up in England in the '50s then. English dentists in those days were one step up from the Spanish Inquisition. I'm 55 and have had a few root canals and I'm missing all the molars on the lower left side.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Gilgamesh
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Post#67 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:57 pm

Shardin5 wrote:
Gilgamesh wrote:
Game Referenced ended on a 5-4 offical vote, yet had a 7-3 POLL vote.
:dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
Game is over yes, facts are facts though. In the POLL even though posted, there were never the votes to actually close it. 2 Phantom votes.
Really sad that on a 5-4 vote a game can end.
Well clearly you didn't read back in the thread to get your facts straight....

Original vote - 7-3 = 10 players, exactly the number we had in the game.

After all the nonsense, the Fed drops - 9 players.

The vote was 5-3 (NOT 5-4, where does this little piece of mis-information come from anyway? Check your email from ][avok. I posted this above it you had but bothered to read....). Samuel changed his vote to continue after seeing the Priv score jump. Akalabeth did not get his vote in in time but it wouldn't have made a difference.

So - everything lines up. No phantoms. No nothing. No need to change the vote process based on bad "facts" and conspiracy theories. In fact - look at the vote thread for Christmas Chaos. That led to a discussion that prolonged the game thanks to changing the turn frequency. That would NOT have happened on your blind vote method.

Can we puh-leeeeze put this one behind us now?????
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Logain
Posts: 720

Post#68 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:40 pm

Shardin5 wrote:
Logain wrote:
Gilgamesh wrote: :dh: Shardin - read back on this thread and get your facts straight, OK?

Do we really need to keep this thing going, and going, and going, and.....

You lost the vote - both times. Let it go.
I bet you poke at tooth aches too... :roll:
Wouldn't know about tooth aches, 45 and I have never had a cavity.
Sorry... That comment was directed at Gilgamesh :mrgreen:

He seems to keep coming back to this just like a sore tooth attracts the tongue :lol:

When I was a kid, my dentist financed his wife's Cadillac with the craters he drilled in my molars. The Navy dentists said most were drilled too large and were probably never needed to begin with... :hehe:

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Gilgamesh
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Post#69 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:04 pm

Well - over the course of 3 votes to end I've taken a lot of crap. I'm just kinda sick of it. You can either take it or fight back. I keep hoping this will end but people keep on posting, so I'll respond if I want to.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#70 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:34 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:Well - over the course of 3 votes to end I've taken a lot of crap. I'm just kinda sick of it. You can either take it or fight back. I keep hoping this will end but people keep on posting, so I'll respond if I want to.
Actually, this is a thread to try to keep anybody from having to put up with Shit over this.
Everybody seems to be in agreement that games that have Voting to end as an option, a vote to end is fine. What leaves a nasty taste is a how a vote can just come about with zero warning in a game with 10+ players, and over 40% of the game left to go.
Coming up with Critera so that ANY player can ahead of time what could tigger a vote, there would be less surprise and a player could see things happening in the game so he could prepare for it.
Havok would have to administrate ZERO, this is just for players so they can see oh the game has reached 75% of turns played, or there are less than 7 players in a game, or whatever. Its just wrong that with no warning a game can come to an end 6-5 by a timely poll, that favors one or two players. This is really could turn into a Fast starting races reward vs slow starting races punishment.

Voting is valid, but abuse of the vote is wrong. This isn't any different than when I figured out the seam problem wrote Tim, and host .47 was created. The abuse had been around for years, nobody had bothered Tim to fix it, so everybody just lived with it. This is the perfect time to resolve what some think is fair vs what some think is abuse, and put it to rest. Nothing shuts people up faster than set of rules.

Oh an on your little 7-3 vote, you really need to drop it as it was already PROVEN, that at least 1 Vote was NOT from a player, and another Vote was proven to be a player who voted to end the game because he Read the post that the game was OVER. So sorry that poll was HEAVILY TAINTED.
So real Vote is 5-4, sorry a 5-4 vote sure shows a lot of interest left in a game with 50 turns left.
Unless you are saying well, its ok to have a little cheating involved in the game, as long as the numbers work out in the long run.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#71 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:45 pm

Gilgamesh wrote: Couldn't have said it better. How can you argue logic with a guy who thinks a vote that was cast AFTER I cast my vote could possibly have influenced my vote? Maybe a rift in the space time continuum???
How can I argue with a guy who doesn't read my posts properly? I stated in my original post that you said what you said after I had voted. Why you continually ignore this is beyond me.

My point is not your vote or NF65 in general anyway. It's about voting in general.

Let's take the following scenario, let's say there's a game where there are still 11 players and someone calls a vote. Now, prior to the votes being cast, there are 5 players who KNOW they will vote to continue, let's call them group A, and there are 5 players who KNOW they will vote to end it (group B). There is one player who isn't sure either way (player C).

Scenario#1
The first five votes are cast by either all of group A or B. Then player C logs on, and is ready to cast his vote. Really, his vote is the tie breaker, whether the votes have been cast or not. But the impression he gets when he's about to vote is either that the players, thus far are all unanimous in either ending it or continuing it. If gruop A casts they're votes first, the current vote is 5-0 for continuing the game. Player C, who hasn't really made up his mind figures, well, everyone else is going to continue so I might as well vote yes too.

Or alternatively, group B casts their votes, and everyone thus far to player C's perspective is voting to end. So he joins the bandwagon and votes for ending instead.

Scenario#2
All of Group A or B cast their votes, in addition, someone not involved in the game, for whatever reason hits the vote button. Maybe they're new and don't know what's going, maybe they're trying to be funny or maybe they're just being a dick, but either way, when all the players come to the poll the vote is 6-0 in favour of either continuing or ending. Someone declares "The votes over! Let's do this". No one knows who casts the vote so they assume that only players involved have cast and depending upon how they dissapointed they are, they either do something about the vote or don't do anything.


In either scenario, it's problematic.

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Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#72 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:47 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:
Well clearly you didn't read back in the thread to get your facts straight....

Original vote - 7-3 = 10 players, exactly the number we had in the game.
Seriously did you NOT read anything?

Shardin emailed one of the players.
That player DID NOT VOTE ON THE FORUM.

So unless he voted after the fact, and didn't tell anyone, then someone NOT INVOLVED IN THE GAME VOTED.

Just because we have 10 votes and there are 10 players doesn't mean those 10 votes are by those 10 players.

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#73 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:51 pm

Logain wrote: When I was a kid, my dentist financed his wife's Cadillac with the craters he drilled in my molars. The Navy dentists said most were drilled too large and were probably never needed to begin with... :hehe:
I was going to reply, in strong terms you would understand, how I cost myself 3 Different promotions, by getting things changed, while I was in the Marines, but now I see you weren't going that way.
One of the Reasons people thought I was a mix of Bulldog and Pitbull, while in, was making it to page11 mike, in 7yrs, yet never busted.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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Gilgamesh
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Post#74 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:53 pm

Scenario 1. A highly unlikely but statistically not totally impossible scenario I suppose. Hardly frequent enough to change the system over Still, going with it for a moment, I credit people on CM with the ability to think for themselves. If they want to vote no and they see 5 voting yes I wouldn't make the assumption that they are so weak minded as to blindly follow the crowd.

Scenario 2 - this phantom voter thing keeps cropping up with no credible evidence it's ever happened. Once more, I give the people on CM a little bit of credit for not being a crowd of jerks that live to screw up other people's votes. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't. However, I do think it's good to post "I voted" just to avoid this kind of unnecessary accusation in future.
QI'DaS tuQ SoSlI'

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Shardin5
Posts: 3808

Post#75 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:55 pm

Gilgamesh wrote:Scenario 1. A highly unlikely but statistically not totally impossible scenario I suppose. Hardly frequent enough to change the system over Still, going with it for a moment, I credit people on CM with the ability to think for themselves. If they want to vote no and they see 5 voting yes I wouldn't make the assumption that they are so weak minded as to blindly follow the crowd.

Scenario 2 - this phantom voter thing keeps cropping up with no credible evidence it's ever happened. Once more, I give the people on CM a little bit of credit for not being a crowd of jerks that live to screw up other people's votes. I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't. However, I do think it's good to post "I voted" just to avoid this kind of unnecessary accusation in future.
do you really need the email posted again from Hoodlam, the Tholian in that game who said he didn't vote in the poll to end the game?

You really think that there is NO ONE on this site, that would vote to piss Casebolt off? Sorry you live in a dreamland. Pissing of Casebolt, isn't as much fun, as pissing of the IRJTN back in the day.

Why not move on, and work up away to make voting, a simple thing and avoid having voting turn into abuse.
Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference.
The US Marines don't have that problem.
President Ronald Reagan

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