EE Problems

Post here if you are interested in the balancing of the Tim branded shiplist

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User avatar
B A N E
Posts: 3777

Post#1 » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:46 pm

EE fleet suffers from a number of things.

#1: Bug in the ftr launch routine for ships that have <4 fbays.
This greatly reduces the power of:
HRoss(2/2), Moscow(4/2) and the SSD(8/3).

#2: High Mass compared to fuel tanks of several ships.
HRoss 170kt with 230 fuel
Moscow 173kt with 140 fuel
SSF 150kt with 180 fuel
SSCV 250kt with 240 fuel
SSD 250kt with 180 fuel

#3: SSF only torper has 80 cargo.
To lay a maximum minefield, the EE must build 3 warships.
That's absurd. Combat effectiveness should NOT be increased.

#4: Fighter production...
This is fixable via Hconfig, but would need play testing with an adjusted
EE fleet. IMO, current TimList, equal veteran players, the EE will get
crushed by another fighter race.

Fixes:
HRoss +1 fbay -70 kt mass.
Moscow +1 fbay + 110 fuel -53 kt mass.
SSF +160 cargo + 180 fuel.
SSD +1 fbay
SSCV +120 fuel
SSCR + 1 or 2 fbays

Musing:
Instead of fixing the SSF both for fuel and cargo, I have thought
about converting the RU25 to a 1 torp tube mine layer with a big
cargo but crippled crew wise. If I did something like this, I would
fix the SSF's crew and fuel instead of cargo and fuel.

The SSF would be the safe bet that requires multiples whereas
the RU25 could do the job of three ships but be easily lost.

Mig is a perfectly good scout except for the PL21 is better.
I don't have a brilliant idea for this ship.
Understanding is a three-edged sword.
Your side,
their side,
and the truth.

User avatar
hennef
Posts: 2250

Post#2 » Sat Apr 08, 2006 5:51 pm

i agree to most of the things you said. but i think the loss in hull-mass on the H-ross and the Moscow is too drastic. EE builds big ships :)

they should not be easily torped away, even with few FBs!

i think the SSF should get the extra-cargo. at least some AND more crew (same prob as the iron lady). the RU25 as cheap support-mine-layer. like a topaz to give it any use at all. the mig would be usefull with more cargo. 150 or so. that way you could use it as armed medium freighter. the EE has no "colonizer", that can create remote worlds alone or spearhead/scout into territory with hostile probes or stuff.
have fun!

hennef

Silvestr Potash
Posts: 59

Post#3 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:14 am

And.Just a question about colonizer.I ask players:
Do the Mig scout must win a duel against borg probe or rebel falcon?
Last edited by Silvestr Potash on Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#4 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:43 am

Starting a game with a Mig is a handy cap IMO 1 clan? Early on you want to colonize and the Mig scout can drop a clan and then what Scout? I would rather have a small freighter than a Mig. Then before you know it your Mig is captured wich is worse than a bad ship because now your enemy owns it.

Playing the EE is not my idea of fun in these low mineral games.

Silvestr Potash
Posts: 59

Post#5 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:15 am

The idea is to use the Mig scout from TList 1.1 , there are 200 cago on it,
and no other significant changes.
To use it as an armored medium freighter deep inside own empire, which can protect from 2-beams probes,in the midgame.
Especialy against recapured pl20 probes by fascists and lizards.
(alsough to use 1 tube instead of 2 beams seems also good,(If it captured -it loses all(one) torpedoes and become useless. Low crew admit recapture it again.but not with this case))

It seen strange, but : in duel mig -falcon with HPasers , the mig can win in 50% with something up than Positron beam, and 70% with something Heavy.. (on Phost - who strike first.. i.e. -mig,becouse the FC would randomized after HYP)

User avatar
casebolt
Posts: 1589

Post#6 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:49 am

Do not mess with Tims list it is perfect, cept that worthless Mig.

User avatar
Akalabeth
Posts: 639

Post#7 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:58 pm

casebolt wrote:Do not mess with Tims list it is perfect, cept that worthless Mig.
So how many different types of ships do you build from the Privateer list? Are there ships you never build? And if so, why are they on there?

Silvestr Potash
Posts: 59

Post#8 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:49 am

hmm.. seems nobody will build Mig for PL-recapturing...
however, Ru Gunboat with 8 lasers is very good idea - to protect evil from the not -heeaviest carriers,and probe recapturing (and a reason why the evil have not carriers >4 fighter bays,except gorbie).
So, the mig with the one torp tube is the better.

User avatar
Captain Blood
Posts: 294

Post#9 » Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:14 pm

Even if most race have some hulls they nearly newer build, they are not useless. Sometime a specific situation occur where a normally considdered useless ship come in handy.

The priv. shiplist for instance. they have thel gravitinic ships who are all good even if the little torpedo ships is of less use than a meteor with mark 4 and about equal in cost.

I believe I saw someone mentioning that there carriers was not worth building, that is not actually true. The cloaking one can bring fighters to a starbase unnoticed.
The large non cloaking is usefull towards all medium class ships, including the LCC and emerald and larger planets witout a base, also it have 7 beams. Naturally it is expensive to use. The alternative to the carrier is a Merlin. Moving a merlin around is consuming a lot of fuel also it gives away a lot of points to the enemy if the towing ship is destroyed in a minefield.

Many of the other non cloaking ships have a purpose as well, most importent they can not cloake, so if one want to be sure not to lose a cloaker to the crystal they can be used. I believe the non gravitonic cloaker is supposed to be used as an intercepting ship, so that one do not loose a meteor, who can easier be captured.

Also remember that the priv. shiplist can be combined with all other ships in the game in teory, so there should be possibilities enough to find a use for a ship.

Naturally it is reasonable to look at how often a ship is becoming usefull when considdering the list. The dwarfstar look pretty much useless to me. Unless one want to resupply a larger stolen carrier with 200 fighters secretly.

I also have a feeling that the EE have some very rearly used ships, but as I have newer simulated the entire EE fleet I can not know. I do not think it is a mistake the EE did not get a decent torpedo layer. The idea in vga is that no race should have it all.
Regards,

Captain Blood

Silvestr Potash
Posts: 59

Post#10 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:29 pm

Do you mean Red Wind instead of Dwarfstar?
Captain Blood wrote: Naturally it is reasonable to look at how often a ship is becoming usefull when considdering the list. The dwarfstar look pretty much useless to me. Unless one want to resupply a larger stolen carrier with 200 fighters secretly.

I also have a feeling that the EE have some very rearly used ships, but as I have newer simulated the entire EE fleet I can not know. I do not think it is a mistake the EE did not get a decent torpedo layer. The idea in vga is that no race should have it all.
Good point.But the main privateer strategy is to capture ship, the main EE strategy - to send probes and darksence, also "Capital buldings". The main wakens of privateer - the low-mass cloackers. weakens of EE- limit of fighters,poor economy,slow maneur. They need "armored freighter" rather than "fast minelayer".

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