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The H-Files

Various Author's

<======================> VGA PLANETS: The -H- Files <=======================>
<========================> Version of November 96 <=========================>
<=========================> Released on Nov. 17 <===========================>

HINTS begun by Roger Burton-West <ubte30e@ccs.bbk.ac.uk>
continued by Gary Grothman <grothmag@vax.cs.hscsyr.edu>
Gordy Pine <gordy@compumedia.com>
Luc Projean <buck@cedep.com>

 

This file is a collection of submissions & strategy hints that were nabbed
off alt.games.vga-planets and excellent web sites that are going to be
mentionned later in this publication.

The main purpose of the -H- Files is to help novice players avoid common
pitfalls & allow them to play competently in games with more experienced
players. It may also contain some tips of value to relatively advanced
players.

The last update of this file that I know of was completed in November 94, I
[Luc Projean] will explain why I decided to continue this publication.

I started playing VGA PLANETS about 2 years ago, and I saw this file on the
alt.games.vga-planets newsgroup, and found it very useful since I was a
complete newbie. 6 months later, I stopped playing for personal reasons,
and now I recently came back to the VGAP world. I looked around for this
file again, and saw that in 2 years, it hadn't been updated at all. Of
course, the game had developped alot: Ion Storms, Cloning and Tachyon beams
were all alien to me. After this, I decided to help the VGA PLANETS community
and it's newbies by updating this file, and adding ALOT of hints and
strategies I captured on the NG and on web sites.

I will try to give credits to every post I'll quote in this file, there
might be some cases where the credits are not valid, I apologize to these
persons, and I wish to thank everyone for making this possible for me.

I also want to warn you about the many grammar errors in this document. I
am myself French Canadian, and a good part of these hints come from people
whose native language might not be english. I do not want to modify the
hints from these people to correct grammatical errors, because I wish to
keep this as original as possible. (Not to mention, I might put errors
where there aren't :) )

===========================> DISCLAIMER <===========================


The purpose of this file is to aid the user base of VGA PLANETS regarding
different tactics to use in VGA PLANETS, by Tim Wisseman.

Luc Projean claims NO responsibility regarding any illegal activity
concerning this file, or indirectly related to it.

I. If you wish to distribute this file, distribute the CURRENT and UNMODIFIED version.
II. It would also be nice if the copies give some credit to the current,
and former maintainers of this file.

===============================> Table of Contents <================

****** 0.1 Introduction
0.2 The history of VGAP
0.3 Credits
0.4 Where to get VGA PLANETS
0.5 Excellent VGAP-related Web Sites

****** 1.0 Race-specific tips: Introduction
1.1 The Federation
1.2 The Lizards
1.3 The Bird Men
1.4 The Fascists
1.5 The Privateers
1.6 The Cyborgs
1.7 The Crystal People
1.8 The Evil Empire
1.9 The Robots
1.10 The Rebel Alliance
1.11 The Missing Colonies of Man

****** 2.0 Misc. Things introduction
2.1 The Great Fighters/Torpedoes debate
2.2 Ion Storms
2.3 Mine Sweeping
2.4 Which Freighters to use?
2.5 General Colonization tips
2.6 Ship Names Suggestions
2.7 Diplomacy

****** 3.0 Conclusion

<======<0.1>============================> Introduction <====================>

I welcome any comments about this publication at <buck@cedep.com>. Any
suggestions or additions can also be sent to this address.

Also, If you wish to have your name and email taken out from the -H- Files
for personal reasons, just email me.

<======<0.2>============================> The History of VGAP <=============>

VGA PLANETS has been written by Tim Wisseman, who can be reached at
<cocomax@aol.com>.

Before I started this project, I didn't know the history of VGA PLANETS
very well. I hope this section will be as informative to you as it was to
me, the information I'm about to give you has been taken from a discussion
with Tim Wisseman himself.

There was a version 1.0 of VGAP, how many copies did it sell? 13.

The 13 copies were all sold to Sierra Online people, and after playing it
they began working on a clone called 'Outpost'. Halfway into writing
'Outpost' they decided it would be a bad idea, so they brought in a NASA
person to add details. Outpost changed completely into an all new game that
ended up looking nothing like VGA PLANETS. Some of you probably know what
was the result of Outpost game released by Sierra...

Tim knew the Sierra people because the Sierra office at the time was only
20 miles from Tim's house, and many of them shared the same BBS.

Version 1 was released the same day LA burned in the riots. Tim remembers
sending it to the first BBS while watching LA burn.

Version 2.0 came 5 months later, it was kicked off of CompuServe for having
a Darth Vader(tm) picture included (which was homemade). It was changed to
a Gorby Picture and all the race names were changed, it then became version
2.1.

About 500 copies of version 2.0 were sold.

Later version 3 was released on April 1 in 1993, we also have to give
credit to Tim for making this version since it sold over 50K copies by the
time I'm writing this article (November 13, 1996).

I wish this section of the -H- Files interested you, since I'm sure many of
you didn't know these things.

=======<0.3>============================> Credits <=========================>

Most of the credit goes to Tim Wisseman, author of VGA PLANETS. He
programmed a great game that gave us many hours of entertainment and that
will probably continue to do so for a long time to come.

I have to give credit to Roger Burton-West, Gary Grothman and Gordy
Pine for starting the Hint Files.

Some of the strategies and hints found in the -H- files were taken from Ted
York's Web site, that can be found at <http://www.teds-universe.com/~goldman>
I have to thank Ted for letting me use them without a doubt.

I also have to mention the strategy section of Timo Kreike's web page at
<http://www.chem.vu.nl/0/Studenten/kreike/vgap.html>
Timo let me use his strategy section, and I have to thank him for that.

And all the posters of the alt.games.vga-planets NG who provided us with an
endless source of hints and strategies. [Not to mention hours of
entertainment :) -ed]

=======<0.4>============================> Where to get VGAP <===============>

The best place to get VGA PLANETS related programs would of course be at Tim
Wisseman's web site, located at <www.wilmington.net/vgaplanets/>

=======<0.5>============================> Excellent Web Sites <=============>

Well, since this is an hint file, I'm not going to review these sites for
you, it's your job to check them out for yourselves.

Tim Wisseman's Web site: www.wilmington.net/vgaplanets/

Ted York's universe: www.teds-universe.com/~goldman/

Timo Kreike's Web site: www.chem.vu.nl/0/Studenten/kreike/vgap.html

The Zone: VGA Planets: www.cit.gu.edu.au/~cvenour/planets/

The Den of the Draconian: ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ryo/

Galactic Traveller's VGA PLANETS page:

www.jacobean.demon.co.uk/vgaplanets/start.html

=======<1.0>============================> Race tips: Intro <================>

Most of the text following this introduction has not been thought up by me,
but by addicted VGA PLANETS gamers. Sometimes I'll make some comments,
these will be included between these: [].

Also, some of the strategies mentionned might not be 100% accurate, don't
hold me responsible for these mistakes, I am not a VGAP god or a wizard and
I can't go thru all the files to check, sorry :(

=======<1.1>=========================> The Federation <==================>

Build neutronic refinery ship(s) early. You have no fuel carriers, so your
supply will be limited.
Build an alchemy ship early - preferably before the N. refinery. Keep it at
your home world until you can build a Nebula or Missouri to escort it to a
Bovine (supply-producing) planet.
You are going to have to trade to get fuel carriers, fighter ships, and
respect. Form a stable alliance with a stronger race. Offer them use of your
Super Refit capabilities.
Despite the lack of fuel carriers, you have a good balance of ships, mostly
leaning toward torp-based weapons. Crank up your torp tech level, and
concentrate on tech 7 and higher torps.
Nebula - carries 350 torps. Good for torp transport, or can use on long
treks through enemy space dropping 50 mines 7 times to form a wall.Sweet ship
to offer in trades, but be careful who you give it to.
Missouri - good torp & beam ship, high mass, can take some hits.
Kitty Hawk - holds 65 fighters, reasonably priced. You can build a couple
of these, and send them out with other ships in a fleet.
Nova - Not bad for a tech 10 ship. I haven't had the chance to battle test
mine yet, so I can't give good advice on Nova vs T.Rex, etc.
Nocturne - Don't overlook these! They hold 50 torps - not much in a battle,
but can be loaded with torps and distributed across your territory. In times
of emergency, they can cover your planets with small minefields6 (beware
cloakers!), and be used to trigger planet defenses if/when attacked.
A previous hint said that Feds lose in the long run. Without fuel carriers,
you will lose quickly.

You are the poor guy who probably will not win by the course of time and
simple surviving. Use your money advantages to outrun your enemy early - they
will loose much of their value later. You can use your Refit mission to
overcome temporary supply shortages - simply build the ship and refit it later
when money or minerals are plentiful available.
Your Escort of Choice is the Loki. You can equip it with slow drives and tow
it by the freighter, if money is rare. The Vendetta does it as well but it is
a little short on Crew and tends to get conquered by the Enemy.

They can Super Refit ships, for profit.
That's why the Solar Federation is sooo powerful! ;-)
(another "ally" tip)
(meaning? --- Ally w/ the Feds, send them your old ship <GIVE it to them>,
have them "ReFit" it with upgraded stuff. They return it to you. Work out
the $$ yourselves..a great alliance tool)


 

<Cg, CG@PRIMENET.COM>

I rank the FEDs with the Fascists as a tough race to play well and they
are really not for inexperienced players but great success can be had with
both races inthe right hands and the right ship combo's.

Many Fed players overlook the great THOR..this little guy has only one
beam but it packs 8 torptubes! Three of these will take down a Biocide and
if you use them with your Carrier..you'll put a big hurt on the enemy.The
Thor strips the huge enemy carriers of all their shields with the proper
amount of torps onboard..this leaves your carrier to finish off all but the
largest enemy carriers.. and against the largest carriers..send in 2 Thors
then your carrier or 3 Thors alone.


<Caswell, EMAILLC1330@CS.ARBOR.EDU>

The feds have fairly large ships camparitive to other races. This is
not nesicerily a good thing. When the Sheild bonus of the other race is
applied it is not him with biggest ship that wins but he with the most
torpedo and I mean TORPEDO tubes that wins.


<Visitor, DEMO.TELEGALLERIA1@TELE.INET.TELE.FI>

The few first turns of the game are very important, these are the
turns where you find your good native/mineral planets before your
friendly neihgbour gets them.

So first build a couple of medium/large freighters with warp seven-,
or nine-engines if money is available. You can later super refit the
slower freighters and they will be great money/colonist suppliers.If
your neighbour is a cloaking race you should acquire a probe.

decent firepower against low mass ships. Later on make nebulas for
security and cargo transfers. Arm them with blasters and mark4, w/w9.


<Visitor, DEMO.TELEGALLERIA1@TELE.INET.TELE.FI>


You have got one big advantage which will possibly keep you from
trouble if used right. Yes, the Eros & Bohemian ships are very wanted
by many races.These ships don't cost toomuch $$ or minerals and the
Feds advantage is money making. So exchange the ships for a big load
of minerals, you'll need them when making your big ships and a huge
load of fighters for the kittys.


<Rob Nielsen, NIELSEN@NS.CENCOM.NET>

Is it just me, or does nobody seem to like the Feds? Well, played
right, you can shove those cloaking, fighter carrying, hyperspacing
ships right back down everybody's throat!:)

Part1- Early in the game

Don't bother with the big, bad ships right now. Build Nocturnes and
Vendettas for escort/scout, and Nebulas for armed colonization. That is,
unless you come into contact with other races. The Nocturne/Vendetta
ships have a fair amount of "punch" and they are dirt cheap. Don't mess
with the fancy, tech 10 weapons. X-Rays and Protons are fine. The only
things you should fight with these are freighters and scouts. The
Nebulas have 350 Cargo Space, making them great for colonizing with
firepower.

Part2- The Middle

IMHO, this is the coolest part of the game. It is also the most
crucial. You can still come from behind, but wars are starting up,
you're building 3-7 ships a turn, and the struggle for power is starting.
The Fed's attack of choice - the Missouri/Arkham combo. The Missouri is
nearly as strong as the Nova (too expensive to be of any use) and the
Arkaham will take out all but the strongest Medium-Light Ships. A Loki
here and there will protect you from cloakers, but don't worry about
those unless cloakers are in your immediate area. If you have a fighter
supplying ally, KittyHawks are a decent fighter ship. 4 Beams, 6 Bays
will seriously injure just about anything smaller than the KittyHawk.

If you absolutly, positivly MUST build a Nova, don't bother with meg
Tech 10 weapondry. TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE!!!! I only build 2-4 Novas total
and use them for rear guard or (this is the only practical use for it,
IMHO) it's a great intimidator. Few races will have the guts to go after
one of these. (Little do they know it's got X-Rays and Mark 1's) :)

Part3- The Finale

If you are not in the top 3 by turn 40+, you are screwed. Find an ally
up there and help him win. The Fed's are not a comeback race. Build
Missouris and (yes I know what I said) Novas. If you got the dough build
high tech level Novas. The 500 ship limit is undoublty in effect so you
need the most powerfil ships you can get. (or afford)
Hope this helps,

Rob Nielsen

 


<Visitor, DEMO.TELEGALLERIA1@TELE.INET.TELE.FI>

 

Comments= There are few good ships which you should build.
Nocturne - A very useable ship, good cargo size and could
not be noticed as a threat for the defending race.

Just drop 50 mark 8 torpedos and he'll never ever let
one noctune past his territory.

Eros-Need is say more, cool down your planets with these and trade them like
hell.

Bohemian - Heat your planets and trade this baby for a decent minerals.
load of minerals.

Nebula- Great mine layer, decent 'punch' .Need I say more ?

Brynhild - Make one to look for good native planets.

Missouri - I don't like this hull, not enough fuel space, takes
too many minerals to build and doesn'tcost that much less that you should
not build a nova.

Thor-Good torpedo ships against non-fighter races.

Diplomacy - 6 beams & 6 torps make this ship a very good planet taker shame
about it being tech9. It's cheap anyway.

Kittyhawk - This ships is the second backbone of your race.

Nova-Excellent ship, build these in force. You don't need many to take out

cloaking races when striking in a fleet with a loki.

Pray for a bovinoid & Insectoid world :)


<Caswell, LC1330@CS.ARBOR.EDU>

The Thor class frigate is probably the best ship for the dollar. When
properly loaded with torps this baby will eat most small ships for dinner
and trade hard with most mid to large ships. 4 of these things working
together might be able to bust a homeworld. I don't know from experience.
I do know that 8 tubes give a definate plus in combat.


<Mika Tuunanen, WIND.CATCHER@PRIVATE.NULLNET.FI>

Well I have noticed that SuperRefit mission is GREAT!
I build ships (little ships and few MerlinClass Alchemy and few Eros
Class Ships (Of coz I put best tech on them what I can...)

Then I exchange them for other ships (Which have tech 1 engines, weapons,
and torpedoes)

Then I Super Refit them to best Tech I can and then Clone them and voila
I have soon many GREAT ships... =)


<Markus, MARKUS@IUS.GUN.DE>

cmader@wpo.uwsuper.edu meinte am 19.09.94 zum Thema
"Re: playing the Fed's":

> Actually, I find a very useful combination ship in almost all cases
> to be the Nebula Class. Granted it only has 4 beams and 4 tubes, but it
> also has a decent mass. The Thor isn't very effective against a carrier, it
> will only get about one volley of torps out, two volleys if you are lucky.
> The Missouri falls in the ranks of the NOVA--to expensive to waste, however,
> if you arrange the battle order for the Kittyhawk to go first and the NOVA
> second, you have a good one-two and should keep the NOVA, depending upon
> the number of opposing fighters. Granted, you lose the Kittyhawk and its
> fighters and that's expensive in credits, but you are the Feds and if you
> play your cards right, you should have a lot of credits built up to build
> fighters at a mere 100 MC.

If you play with engine tech bonus you'll see why the thor is a nice
ship. It'll fire up to 4-5 volley's with 50% bonus. A max of three

kill's every carrier in the game. The third survives only with shields
down usually.

MfG Markus Z-Netz: markus@ius.gun.de


<Yuri Villanueva, ELMO@GATE.NET>

TAN TOT LIT (isc30236@leonis.nus.sg) wrote:

: Or try 3 thors with transwarp and mark 7/8 if u have eng shield
: bonus on.

My friend Chris Kirby, an avid FED player, after taking some of your advice
writes:

I just tried this. It failed miserably. Not only did none of them fire a
single torpedo, I had to live with the fact that I paid for 3 of them with
Mk 8s and transwarp drives. I shot down a whopping 5 fighters. Better luck
with two missouris and some backup ship. Heavy fighter carriers can kick
the **** out of the feds with ease. Pound per pound the feds dont have the
firepower to deal effectively with any REAL fighter carriers. To just hold
their own you have to outbuild them in NUMBERS of ships (ex. 3 Missouris to

1 Biocide or high mass fighter carrier). Oh and by the way if you feel like
doing the math, figure out how much more minerals and money you lose doing
it this way. And dont forget the Feds mine at 70% in comparison! Dont get
me wrong the feds can hold out against some of the other races and
eventually if they get some much needed alterations they might hold their
own in certain arenas but at present the Feds and the Facists are two of the
weakest groups in the game. (Gee, I wonder why these races are the last
spots always taken??? HUMMMM)

I personally want to know which host version you were using when you tried
this (3 X Thor Class w/ Mk8 and Transwarp -VS- Biocide). We used host v3.15
with fed crew bonus and 25% E-S bonus.

elmo@gate.net (Yuri Villanueva)


<Kevin Leitch, KLEITCH@IDIRECT.COM>

>I am playing in game as the Feds. I have little experience with this race.
>can anyone give me some Hints ?

Build Carriers. Lots of them. Lasers are fine. Grab an automa if you can.
steal a Lizard too. In the end game the Carrier will give you a big
advantage.

kleitch@idirect.com (Kevin Leitch)


<Richard Hendricks, HENDRIC@KSU.KSU.EDU>

>I am playing in game as the Feds. I have little experience with this race.
>Can anyone give me some Hints ?

Raise your hull tech to the max, and pump out ships with Quantum drive 7's,
MK I's and X-Rays. Later, once you have your economy up and running, super
refit these ships to Heavy PHasers and Mk VII or Mk VIII. If you would
like to

use these ships for real work until you can upgrade them, then put on
Disruptors and MkIV torpedos first.
--
Richard Hendricks
hendric@ksu.ksu.edu



<Dan McInnis, YOYO@DIGITAL.NET>

Kevin Leitch wrote:
>
> In article <N.072496.191415.93@wxs5-11.worldaccess.nl>, voogt@worldaccess.nl
> says...
> >I am playing in game as the Feds. I have little experience with this race. Can
> >anyone give me some Hints ?

> Build Carriers. Lots of them. Lasers are fine. Grab an automa if you can. steal
> a Lizard too. In the end game the Carrier will give you a big advantage.

Ummmm...

I dont think so. The fed carriers are ok, but for them to be effective at
all, they should be led in with a couple of torpships. Its rather a waste
of money and minerals to put so much money for all these carriers if youre
going to lose at least one to a heavy carrier every time.

I would have to say that for the feds, build a shitload of good hulls.
Missouri's,

Diplomacies, Nova Super D's, Kittyhawks and lokis. Not so many of the loki's
tho :)
Build them with whatever engine/max # of beams/max # of tubes that you can
so you can fill the ship Q. You then end up with a medium fleet of decent
ships with good weapons and transwarps on them, and then you can go back
(after the Q of course) and super refit the hulls that need good weapons
and engines. When you face any kind of hardcore resistance, you will lose
ships, so by keeping your opponents ship numbers down, and your own high,
you can beat them.

I know all this because I got all my advice from a guy who has won 7 games as the
feds, and this is how he did it :)

Dan McInnis <yoyo@digital.net>


<Mike Lemon, ???>

>Ok, I have got much help from people out there, though I still
>need a VERY important question answered out there!
>The fed tec 10, rad ship though it is, has NO hope in hell of
>defeating those nasty huge cylon, colonist, borg carrier ships
>that can destroy anything in this game. HOW do ye defeat them
>without taking enormous amounts of damage and loss of ships
>and MC????????? ;-(

>There must be some way, though it is eluding me...

First, build cheap Missouri Battleships with X-rays and Mk8 torps.
Put about 30 torps on them, and set one to attack before the Nova.
The Missouri will damage the carrier (usually brings down the shields)
enough so that the Nova can destroy it.

You'll lose a cheap Missouri. He loses a Golem or Gorbie. Sounds
like a good trade to me! If he sends two carriers, Have another
Missouri/Nova pair at the point of attack just in case. Your
first Nova should be able to bring down the shields of the second
carrier if you put enough torps on it. Then have a second Nova
finish it off.

Remember, you as the Feds can build hulls with Tech 1 items, then upgrade
later as you bring in the money and minerals. It is _vital_ for you
to build a good hull every turn. You can refit as many ships as you want
around one base, _in addition_ to building a new ship. Once the 500 ship
limit is reached, build as many bases as possible and set all to build a

good hull. This will allow you to scoop up lots of ship slots.

Mike Lemon


=======<1.2>============================< The Lizards >======================

B. Lizard

Go out, find enemy planets you want, and land 1000's of clans to take
them over and defend them. You'll probably want 2 or 3 warm planets to grow
lizards on, and remember not to build more mines than you need. Use that
defense bonus on ships by using small, cloaking ships to steal ships off
other people.

Normally the Lizards are lousy (or so-so) cloakers. The Reptile isn't
heavily enough armed, and the Lizard Cruiser is too massive - it needs too
much fuel. But they have their Lizard Ground attack, which can cause
horrific damage to your planets. Additionally this can be used while
cloaking.
Two countermeasures: Develop Planet defenses to max, and place well
armed ships around endangered planets. If the Lizard conquers the planet,
you will take it back immediately. And that Planet Defense reduces his
ground combat ratio. Once one of these Lizard Cruisers loses its Colonist
load, it has lost most of its destructive potential.

Your Escort is the Vendetta. Since you have the 150% advantage, it is
more impressive in your hands than with the Fed.

>If you had a Lizard ship orbiting a planet and you upped the tax rate to 100%
>and the Lizard ship had the Hisssss Mission set would that mean that you'd
>get major $$$ without any risks at all or would the population riot? I know
>the hisssss mission will stop civil wars, but will it stop people from
>rioting?

Nononononononononono.

_Don't_ raise taxes to 100%. Dumb. Civil war for turns & turns, even with 3
or 4 Hisss! ships orbiting the planet. Hissss! only decreases unhappiness
_a little bit_. You'd need multiple ships Hisssing! to manage 100% taxes. I
have one planet with 15 mil Ghipsoldals at a 40% tax rate and 7 ships
Hissing! and they're stable at 'Unhappy.' (host 3.11) The number of ships
needed to keep your planets not rioting is not directly proportional to
your tax rate.. Unhappiness is more like geometrically related to tax rate
(I dunno what the exact deal is). Hisssss! does not stop riots immediately.
You can have a planet rioting while ships HIssss! at it. Such planets will
just stop rioting quicker. You can also HIssss! at planets you don't own
and it'll work. Hissss! at your allies in exchange for better ships... ...
Nope, sorry. I tried that, ONCE. It took two turns with taxes at 0% and
two ships in orbit with the HISSSS Mission going, to recover from bumping
taxes up to 100%. Thank God I did that early in the game so it didn't hurt
me. (FYI: This was on version 3.0d) So for all you Newbie Lizard players
out there, Do NOT set your taxes up to 100% and think the HISSS mission
will make everything o.k. the following turn.

> For all you Lizard People out there that have played for quite a awhile,
>How are we supposed to beat anyone?? This is my first game, my ships suck,
>I'm over extended in planets, because my lizards mine too fast then get
>angry, I have to build all freighters to send them back to my two starbases
>which are already sucked dry.
>This means I have a few escorts,
>and my biggest ship is the size of the cylons tech 6.
>Not only that they are about to attack me, and they can at any given time,
>because I don't have any mines, all my Mo
>are in my freighter's hulls, and the freighters just ship Supplies back and
>forth. Meanwhile I have to let the ULS Patrick (Merlin)
>to rune seven or eight times just so
>I can build another one, and build torpedoes.
>How am I supposed to beat a swarm of fighters from the cylons anyway??

As a sucsessful Lizard player, ther eis one thing you have going for you:
Money, LOts and Lots and Lots and LOTS of it! If you've got it, and Alchemy
ships, build starbases to defend your planets. If you haven't had time to
set up a strong intimidation based economy (Love that hiss mission), I cant
help you much..

| For all you Lizard People out there that have played for quite a awhile,
|How are we supposed to beat anyone?? This is my first game, my ships suck,
|I'm over extended in planets, because my lizards mine too fast then get angry

Mining faster then everyone else is GOOD. The reason your natives or colonists
are angry is because you are taxing them to high. The lizard HISSS mission
will help solve this problem.

| I have to build all freighters to send them back to my two starbases which
|are already sucked dry. This means I have a few escorts, and my biggest ship
|is the size of the cylons tech 6. Not only that they are about to attack me,
|and they can at any given time, because I don't have any mines, all my Mo are
|in my freighter's hulls, and the freighters just ship Supplies back and forth
|Meanwhile I have to let the ULS Patrick (Merlin) to rune seven or eight times
|just so I can build another one, and build torpedoes. How am I supposed to
|beat a swarm of fighters from the cylons anyway??

From your desctiption you probably going to die if the Robots want to kill
you. You have to be careful with your minerals from the start of the game
all I can say is think ahead several turns. Your ultimate goal is to find
bovinods planets and put merlin alchemy ships in orbit around them for an
unlimited supply of minerals.

How do you kill someone with this lizards? Build lots of lizard class
cruisers with high tech torpedo tubes. Put lots of torpedos and clans on
board, go into enemy teritory cloaked, drop clans off on his worlds. It
takes over 900 clans to get planetary defense upto 80 so most worlds will
have 60 or less defense which will make the lizards ground attack ratio
30:4 instead of 30:1. So 200 clans can kill 1500 enemy clans. Thats 2 or 3
well developed worlds or as many lightly populated worlds as you can
reach. Since the lizard cruiser cloaks the only way to stop this attack is
with mines. Thats why the cruisers have high tech torps to lay mines to
destroy enemy mine fields. Its a bitch for the enemy to take back the
planets because lizards can take 150% damage (yes even the planets) and if
they don't build up the planetary defense then it makes it that much easier
for the lizards to take.

Unfortunatly the Robots are the lizards worst nightmare only the lizard
battleship (and alchemy ships) have more than 4 beam thus fighter races have
an advantage. And the robots mine 4 times better than everyone. The only thing
the lizards can do to stop a direct attack is build lots of battleships with
x-ray lasers and high tech torps.

>What kinds of ships are best at Hiss'ing? And how much over amounts can I
>get per turn, safely?

Build Escorts. Lots of them. With 6 or 7 in the air you can get taxes up to
about 75%!!! The T-Rex is small but only requires 2 engines. It is therefor
cheap to build. Build a fleet.

Use the LCCs as planetary attack ships. Cloak and drop colonists. Even
captured freighters can be used as assault ships by Lizards. Capture the
freighters and then drop the colonists (if that is what they are carrying on a
planet. If you have enough you get the planet. If not you dropped his
population by a big margin.

>Do the Lizards have to be offensive early on?

I've never played the Lizards, but they are oriented reasonably well for
defense: with your 30:1 ground combat ratio when attacked, it's darn hard to
take your planets away from you. For offense, I think you'd do well to slowly
advance your borders outwards, crushing enemy frontier worlds by dumping
massive numbers of colonists onto them.

The 150% is only really important in the battle where you get to that
figure; but it's quite impressive there. I have taken on many Rushes with
T-Rexes and it generally requires 2 T-Rexes lost and the third damaged;
that's 1 less than the usual number of Vic/Diamond flame b-ships usually
lost. This carries over into the other Liz. ships as well. The Lizards real
problem is the lack of ships with many beams, which makes them vulnerable
to carriers; they fare well against torpedo races like the Feds and
Fascists. But that's symptomatic of the greater strength carriers have
against all torp ships. A 1-1 kill ratio is nothing to sneer at! The
Lizard cloakers are generally light in combat potential, but cheap in
minerals, tech levels for the hull, and credits. Thus, you can crank
T-Rexes at old established starbases, while making cloaking ships at the
new frontier bases. They do have good cruising range, and excellent cargo
capacity for assault troops, supplies for repairs (important when
penetrating minefields) and torpedoes (for extended raiding campaigns and
minelaying). 2 of the cloakers can survive a mine hit (the Liz cruiser 2
hits). When loaded with supplies, they can be in pretty good shape after
that hit. They are not intended to be heavy combat ships, but are quite
adequate at planet-busting and convoy raiding, as well as planet-taking
ground assault. The Reptile is strictly a scout; but it's fine against
freighters, and can take a small frontier world with 50 colonists in the
cargo hold. They have cloaking and that is nice. The ground attack is also
nice.

Take them on the offensive and conquer new worlds by hand-to-hand combat! But,
do it early in the game.
Agreed, be quick out the gate. But not only the ground assault - the double
mining and Hisss mission give them the cash and minerals to build starbases
and reach high tech levels early.

>On the defensive Lizards suck.

Why? Lot's of other races won't have their cash to lay minefields, or a
ship to match the T-rex, and they never have to worry about ground assault.
They can afford starbases to toughen their planets better than most, as well.
Sure they don't have huge ships, but can't you think of something to offer a
neighbor (or a neighbor's enemy) from their stock of goodies, to get a ship in
trade?

>To do well you probably need a good starting position and build lots of
>starbases quick so you can get massive numbers of the pathetic ships.

The ships are not pathetic-they're as good as most Fed except the
high-end, which with 70% mining the Feds have trouble building; are
comparable with Birds (except their B-ship doesn't cloak); better than
Fascist, Privateer (except the speed), Borg (except the cubes), Crystal
(except the expensive Crystal Thunder), and not too shabby against the rebs
and colonies, except the Pat, Rush and Virgo - and as I said, you just have
to sacrifice some T-Rexes. The 500 ship limit is their biggest enemy; fight
it by building lots of bases, and destroying the bases of your enemies (or
capturing them!). That demands either treachery, or a little homework.
They aren't any good at simply walking over the enemy, like the Borg in the
end-game, but what fun is that?

If you concentrate overrun type missions on key enemy planets, it can be
very successful. Imagine being able to take the enemy's starbase just with
an overrun (possible in games where all sides start with very low
populations)! Being able to do it from a cloaked ship means you've got deep
penetration on your side, except against the Privateers (who can anticipate
where you will try to strike, and Rob you blind) and people who build
minefields.

The FAQ suggests finding warm planets to breed lots of Lizard colonists.
Sounds like a good idea.

> On the defensive Lizards suck.

One thing in your favor is that your planetary defence is boosted by that 150%
bonus. A "depth" defence where you build up a lot of well-defended planets and
wait for the enemy to attack works best for you than for any of the other race.

Lizards - Have pretty good ships. The 150% damage ratio can help, but only
if you can get a few more torpedos off in those last few seconds of life.
The Lizards need LOTS of cruisers and LOTS of colonists, as that is they're
only defense against the big fighter races. They just don't have the Fascist
plethora of beams. All-in-all, a good race if played properly. They're
mining ability and Hisss mission make finding natives and good planets
essential. In a bad position, the Lizards will find it tougher than most to
be strong. In a good position, they can be dominant.

Yes- the Lizards can arrive cloaked, drop colonists, and leave, without ever
uncloaking. The only defence against this type of attack is to lay mines and
hope he hits one. Web mines are especally good. The Privateers have the option
of leaving ships in orbit set to "rob", although this won't catch the lizard
ship until after it's droped its marines.
The best defence, of course, is not to let the lizard get close enough to do
this to many planets at once. Don't keep much fuel on the ground at any border
planets.

In my game as the Lizard (in turn 130 something, with 103 ships 'ruling' the
space lanes), I can confirm this, more or less. Lizard ships will survive
battles if they are damaged >100%. If they are involved in multiple battles,
they will go on to fight the next battle even if damaged >100%. However, they
will have _neagtive_ shields for this battle. e.g. a 130% damaged ship will
have shields of -30%. A neat bug. I've never had a ship with negative shields
survive a battle, though, so I don't know what happens. However, after all
battles are done, the ships >100% damaged do indeed seem to dissapear. This
stuff is more than likely host-version dependent.

Lizard ships who hit mines to be damaged >100% do _not_ dissapear, though.
So this would be the way to test the capture scenario. Since the scenario
mentioned involved the Crystals, this is probably what happened. This is
one of the things I love about the Lizards- the Lizard Cruiser can survive
two mine hits (damage of %124) and still move off at about warp 6. One hit
(62%) and it can still do warp 9. [If a Lizard ship, at >99% damage, if
captured by another race, WILL blow up., Ed.]

: What is the best way for the Lizards to counter a Gorbie? What about a
: Super Star Carrier (or whatever the name was).
: I have plenty of resources and was going to through T-Rexes at them, but the
: thought just hit me to use Escorts to take out fighters, since they are dirt
: cheap. I will also be mining quite a bit shortly.
: What are the best Lizard ships overall? Someone had suggested the
: Madonzilla carrier, but I always thought they had too few bays for
: a carrier. The Lizard Class Cruiser also looks very good for minelaying.
: I believe it held something like 290 mines.

Generally given equal strength empires, The Empire will cream the Lizards,
so your best options would either to surrender or try and placate the
Empire player. If you have plenty of Credits, offer 10-30 thou to him,
maybe he will attack someone else instead. Note: If the Empire has
purchased bulk Meteors from the Privateers, and is towing his Gorbies from
deep within his Empire into battle using them, then he will have
substantially lower fuel costs than normal and can also counterattack with
rapid and deep thrusts at your starbases. If he also owns half a dozen
bovine planets with starbases then he can turnout a couple of Gorbies each
turn, which could make life considerably more difficult and a prolonged war
futile.

The LCC is a good ship to lay mines and dump colonists on enemy planets,
but your main battleship is the T-Rex. Since you have to play against a
fighter race you should fix them with X-Rays and Mk7 or Mk8.

The fighter production is slow for the Empire and the Gorbies are
expensive. Assume a T-Rex takes out 35 fighters on a Gorbie, so if you have
an average of one battle per turn he needs 7 bases to reproduce the
fighters. If you add some Escorts he will need even more bases. (Of course
never, ever attack a Gorbie with just one T-Rex).

Use wolfpacks of T-Rex, 3 T-Rex should kill a Gorbie. One T-Rex should
also beat a SS Carrier/Cruiser. Go for his planets with LCC's full of
colonists so he will need 2000+ clans on every planet to hold them (esp.
his bases). Go for his bases with T-Rex if he has many colonists on his
bases. He will have a tough time to move his Gorbies to defend the bases
(and he will need lots of fuel). He will need also 60 fighters at every
front base to defend the base. Capture his freighters (stay cloaked at
planets and wait for his freighters, tow them away and capture them). The
Empire needs lots of minerals (for the expensive ships and all those
bases), so capturing or destroying freighters is an effective way to weaken
him. The Empire is strong if it has 10+ bases and lots of ships, otherwise
the torp ship is too light and fighters are rare (so it would be a good
idea to use some Escorts to take out fighters).

If they have comparable starting positions the Lizard is clearly superior
to the Empire. (This of course changes quite a bit if the Empire produces
more free fighters per base, say 10+.)


<???, razkuli@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu>

Eric Heft (eheft@discover.wright.edu) wrote:
: Well,
: from playing the lizards ... the lizards will not kill you by using
: thier battleship ... they WILL kill you by using *LOTS* of
: battleships.

I hear ya, man, I hear ya... hordes of T-REXes rock. Now if only someone
would be stupid enough to trade me a Golem...

4200 MC a turn from 15 mil Amphibian Representatives (120%) is cool too..
it really helps you crank up the starbase techs and build those fighters
for the Madonzillas (in the abscence of REAL carriers...)...

: If the lizard player is up to par and didn't get screwed to bad,
: they should have a killer economic base, able to crank out several
: fully loaded TRX's ... ie 10 H.Blasters and 5 Mark7 or 8 tubes and
: 35-45 torps. plus his other bases should crank out some LCC's with
: mark8 torps and land colonist / mine fields deep into your territory.
: If on the otherhand you can nuetralize the key 'hssing' planets
: you can hurt'm good =)

I dunno... I like Heavy Disruptors myself... better percentage of capturing
ships when you're not trying to beat the shit out of them.

: If you have about the same number of capital ships I'd say you
: are in a good position, if you are behind and the player is
: experienced in fighting your race, it may be a really good war =)

For the Lizards, that is...

: Eric

Cyas,

razkuli@sleepy.cc.utexas.edu
-------------------------------


<Conrad Lesnewski, <calbasil@ifu.net>

ssenkere@tuba.aix.calpoly.edu (Scott A. Senkeresty) wrote:
>
>Using (some version of) host 3.2:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This is your problem, get the latest version and it will stop.

>
>It seems that whenever I raise my tax rate above 31% I will loose a
>huge portion of my people. Why!? I am the Lizards, and though
>collecting 3,000MC is nice... I would like to bump the tax rate up!
>

>Its weird, because 31% will actually leave my people happy (I have
>enough Hiss'ers) but 32%... and SLAM-O... a million or so people die,
>and I get a message saying 31% is the max tax rate.

 

In earlier versions of Host 3.2, this was a planned feature (disadvantage)
to the Lizards. When you taxed a planet > 31% AND had Hissing ships in
orbit, people died from overwork/stress related injuries. It has either
been removed entirely or the cutoff has been raised in the final version of
Host (I've taxed upto 40% without having been hit).

 

>
>Thanks,
>-Scott

Conrad Lesnewski <calbasil@ifu.net>


<Jackal, JACKAL@KAIWAN.COM>

Christian Klass <chribeag@fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

>Hi there!
>
>I need some hints on how to get the most out of the Lizards. Anyone has
>some cool tricks at hand? Which ships are best and for what, special
>tactics etc... All that stuff - so far I "only" played the Colonies of
>Man and the Lizards are quite different. :)
>
Well, one trick that you might like to use is putting a dozen ships
above a high-population planet with the mission for all of them set to
Hiss...I've heard you can squeeze something like 70% tax rate out of
the planet and still have a happy population by doing this. Lotsa
money!

jackal
jackal@kaiwan.com (jackal)


<Chivar, CHIVAR@NEXUS.INTEREALM.COM>

Christian Klass wrote:
>
> I need some hints on how to get the most out of the Lizards. Anyone has
> some cool tricks at hand? Which ships are best and for what, special
> tactics etc... All that stuff - so far I "only" played the Colonies of
> Man and the Lizards are quite different. :)

I would suggest staying away from the small and medium freighters except
maybe in the very beginning if the host set up the game for a mineral
and money poor universe. Build Large freighters when you can and use
them to drop colonists on nearby good Planets. IMHO, your best
beginning workhorse ships are the Lizard Class Cruisers. Build them
after you have done some preliminary colonization and other development.
They are a good all around ship for the mid game. They have relatively
large cargo holds for dropping your very strong attacking colonists.
They can cloak without having to worry about Lokis. By a host default
they can stand up to most of the small to medium ships with the lizard's
ability to take 150% damage before getting destroyed.

You have Eros ships which you can use to cool hot planets by
terraforming them, so don't shy away from a good mineral and/or native
rich planet because it is hot.

When you start encountering other races with the cloaking ability, it is

time to build Lokis. They won't uncloak your ships or the Feds if they
have been able to get cloakers, but they will help against other enemy
cloakers. Send them out in a battle group with your LLCs and larger
ships. Set them to sensor sweep give you the chance to detect long
range cloakers. Don't waste them as primary attackers; make sure the
other ships in your battle group have a lower numbered id# and/or
friendly code.

Someone else pointed out that by host default, you can mine at the 200%
rate, you will quickly need merlins and neutronic fuel refinery ships,
so don't sell off your supplies unless you really need to. Save them
for making fuel and other minerals when you can build ships.

If you can ally with the Colonials and the host keeps the Cobol ability
to be able to gather fuel, try to get a cobol with transwarp drives.
Clone it! Have these ships continually intercept a ship in your battle
group untowed and not towing other ships to provide your cruisers and

battleships with needed fuel. I'm pretty sure this will work for other
races besides the Colonials... :?

As far as end game strategies, it depends on the host parameters (i.e.
do you get free fighters at your starbase?) and your enemy situation.
Your biggest ships are not the strongest in the game, so ally with
someone with stronger ships. If you can get your hands (claws?) on a
big borg ship or Virgo or Gorbie with your 150% fight ability, you will
be pretty well off to say the least.

Someone else may have some other tips, but I hope this helps too. :)

Sir Chivar <chivar@nexus.interealm.com>


<Micheal Panknin, PANKNIN@SKY.NET>

Christian Klass <chribeag@fub46.zedat.fu-berlin.de> wrote:

>Hi there!

>I need some hints on how to get the most out of the Lizards. Anyone has
>some cool tricks at hand? Which ships are best and for what, special
>tactics etc... All that stuff - so far I "only" played the Colonies of
>Man and the Lizards are quite different. :)

>Bye,
> Chris

Sure, here are a few hints: overtax the native rabble enforcing your
will with a beam ship or two set on hisss...it will work with your
natives also. Early in the game, build lots of Lizard Cruisers (with
Transwarp and decent beams/torp tubes...colonize with these ships,
they cloak!!) . Never forget that you have a 30-1 advantage on ground
assult advantage....290 clans will wipe out 30 times there
number...290 being the capacity of a Lizard Cruiser.

panknin@sky.net (Michael Panknin)


<John Edwards, HARKERII@IX.NETCOM.COM>

The Ever-so-wise Allan Gray <wag@islandnet.com> once said:

->Reptile wrote:
->>
->> What happens if a t-rex fights a missouri. And the t-rex
->> kills the missouri, but ends up at 107% damage, will it
->> blow up? Will it start with 107% in the game?
->> I have never experienced this, but as you probably can
->> imagen, I'm going to end up with some numbers right above
->> 100% with t-rex's vs missouri.
->> Thanks for all help!
->>
->
->Lizard ships will not be destroyed until > 150% damage. However, if
->they are > 100% and not above a Lizard planet, they are supposed to be
->destroyed at the end of the turn. Host 3.22005 does not seem to follow
->that convention - I've seen an LCC take 3 mine hits and it's still
->floating around in space.

I've seen that also. Our lizard player is curretnly making
his way (with a MBR) to my stargate to get home with it at 120%
damaged.

John


<Pazi, PAZI@TO.ICL.FI>

wag@islandnet.com wrote:
>Lizard ships will not be destroyed until > 150% damage. However, if
>they are > 100% and not above a Lizard planet, they are supposed to be
>destroyed at the end of the turn.

Nope. Lizard ships withhold >100% damage ONLY IN SPACE. The
tidal waves of a planet will tear them apart. I presume that's
also _any_ planet.

-zi


<Jan Huijsmans, HUYSMANS@PI.NET>

Reptile wrote:
>
> What happens if a t-rex fights a missouri. And the t-rex
> kills the missouri, but ends up at 107% damage, will it
> blow up? Will it start with 107% in the game?
> I have never experienced this, but as you probably can
> imagen, I'm going to end up with some numbers right above
> 100% with t-rex's vs missouri.

The ship will blow up. In 1 host I experienced that it stayed
allive, but is has to be an old one, as this game ended about
1 year ago.

--

Jan Huijsmans J.Huijsmans@sara.nl
huysmans@pi.net


<Maurits van Rees, 146156MR@MSTORE.EUR.NL>

On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Reptile wrote:

> What happens if a t-rex fights a missouri. And the t-rex
> kills the missouri, but ends up at 107% damage, will it
> blow up? Will it start with 107% in the game?
> I have never experienced this, but as you probably can
> imagen, I'm going to end up with some numbers right above
> 100% with t-rex's vs missouri.
> Thanks for all help!
>

It depends on the host you're using. And perhaps also on the hostversion.
At least there is a difference between Host and Phost.
In Host Lizard ships survive if they have less than 150 % damage. So it
is possible to fly around with 107%damage.
In Phost once you've reached 100% damage, you are doomed. You will fight
the last battle, but after that, you're out.

Bye,

Maurits


<Richard Nadolny, RICHARDN@OUTSIDE.COM>

Lizard campaigns are difficult to pull off successfully. This is
because the Lizards have battleships that are much weaker than those
of most other races, even with their 150% percent damage ability. So
you must learn to fight smarter than your enemy.

Lizards, with their fast cash and minerals, can build a large number
of warships quickly. You can flood an area with T-Rexes and soon control
the spacelanes. Against the Empire, 3-4 T-Rexes will always result in a
kill. The problem is that, once the 500 ship limit hits and everyone has
battleships waiting in the queue, your enemy can replace his bigger
battleships easier than you can replace the 3-4 T-Rexes you need to take
them out.

This means you need to focus on the ground attack as your means of
combat. Save your T-Rexes for the strategic battles you'll have, and
use your cloaking ability to disrupt enemy shipping, find strategic
targets for those T-Rexes, and conduct ground attacks.

The Lizard Class Cruiser (LCC) is the troop transport of choice due
to its large cargo hold and cloaking device, but it really chugs down
the fuel. So try to use your other cloaking ships where they can help.
The Reptile Destroyer is a weak ship with small cargo capacity, but is
a great scout with good fuel economy. It can easily dispatch freighters,
and can tow more powerful ships to waiting T-Rexes. Used with ground
attack fleets, it can remain to Hiss captured planets. The Saurian
Cruiser, while smaller than the LCC, is a good ship for laying nuisance
minefields behind enemy lines.

Also remember that when you capture a planet through ground attack, you
don't have to keep it. Disrupting your enemy's economy is the main
priority, not defending a smattering of planets all over the starchart.
You may leave one clan on a captured planet as a means of knowing when
the enemy returns, but unless the planet has major strategic importance,
don't stretch yourself thin trying to keep every planet you capture.

When you are forced to face an enemy in ship-to-ship combat, use your
ships wisely. Blindly throwing large numbers of ships at enemy fleets
will eventually cause you to lose the ship slots you already own to other
races, even if you can afford to replace all your battle losses. Build
your ships with combat in mind -- and where they will fight. Focus on
high-tech torps for crippling enemy ships. Only load leading ships with
enough torps for battle; those first few T-Rexes will only fire a couple
of volleys of torps before spewing atoms, no need to have the cargo hold
full of torps that never see battle. Unless you need to do minesweeping,
use low-tech beams for picking off fighters.

Mines are very important to the Lizard player. You can easily afford
to churn out minefields, and can help greatly in your defense. An invading
fleet that hits mines is much more susceptable to your T-Rexes. And you
can make =big= fields almost as easily as the Robots. Confuse the enemy by
dropping mines, sweeping them up, then dropping them again in another spot.
If "mines destroy enemy mines" is enabled, you have a great minesweeping
weapon.

One last word about the 150% damage ability. Don't rely on it to protect
your ships. Once a ship has over 100% damage, it has no weapons and
becomes a very expensive freighter, easily picked off by the enemy. Ships
with more than 100% damage can be destroyed by enemy planets, as those who
have received the message about their ship being ripped apart by tidal
forces can verify. Repairing a badly damaged ship isn't easy when you're
far from your starbases and need 500 or more supplies, which are often in
short supply during a campaign. All the more reason to use the ground
attack: so you can capture enemy starbases to repair your ships. There is
nothing more gratifying than an enemy losing ships trying to destroy a
starbase he built!


<Jan Peter Van Bolhuis, VBOLHUIS@ELEKTRON.ET.TUDELFT.NL>

I am talking about the Madonzilla here.

There are a lot of people who claim that the Madonzilla is a useless
carrier. I must agree with them if you plan to use it on its own.

HOWEVER, it can be VERY useful if you are high on money, and low on
minerals or shipslots (shiplimit!).

Everybody claims it takes 3 to 4 T-rexes to kill a large carrier,
correct,

but now instead of 4 T-rexes use the following battlegroup and order:

T-Rex
Madonzilla
T-Rex.

Remember that torps are best against shields and fighters are best
against hulls.

The first T-rex brings down the shields and hopefully starts on
schratching the hull and dies.

The Madonzilla launches fighters to directly damage the hull. Depending on
the carrier you are fighting and interfighter combat the madonzilla might
survive, so don't overstock him on fighters, but also don't be too much a
scrooge.

The offending carrier is now heavily damaged and should be easy picking
for your last T-Rex.

Advantages: you loose less shipslots for killing a large carrier. You
loose less priority buildpoint in killing the carrier.
(a Gorbie: 10 points : 3 T-rexes 15 points or T-rex+Madonzilla 10 points)
(doing this from memory so i might be slightly off on the number of points).

Disadvantage: Fighters are expensive, but so are torpedo's and ships and
you are hissing aren't you?

This tactic might also work for the Bird/fascist carrier (7/3) but they
have less money.

From a Cyborg player

Hoping his neighbour didn't think about this, it would make a war a whole
lot costlier for me.

J.P.van Bolhuis
vbolhuis@elektron.et.tudelft.nl


<Johan Roraback, RORABACK@BETHANY.BETHANYLB.EDU>

If you are being attacked by a race with big ships such as the Empire
or the Borg there is a simple defence.

1. Build Minefields BIG minefields. You have enough minerals and money.

2. Set some cloaking ships preferably Lizard Class Cruisers cloaked on
the outskirts of your teretory and fill them with the maximum number
of tech 10 torps possable. as soon as a hostile ship appears drop
as many as you want right in it's face.

3. Build your T-Rex, No build 100 of your T-Rex, one Gorby may be able
to destroy one T-Rex but 3-4 T-Rexes can destroy a Gorby anytime.

4. Set some small cloaking ships out near the hostile border, stay
cloaked and meet up with the hostile ship if you can. Then tow
it to a set point in space, such as 1231,3219 then set all of
those T-Rexes waypoints to to the same point. It makes a nasty
supprise for some poor attacker.


 

<Johan Roraback, RORABACKJ@BETHANY.BETHANYLB.EDU>

1. You have a lot of money and a lot of minerals, your problem will be
getting them where you need them Build a lot of large freighters.
Then use them. Send them to any planet with minerals and pick them
up. I usually have 3-4 freighters supplying a starbase and about
7-8 planets supplying the minerals for that starbase.

2. Remember #1. you can get a lot of minerals, and will need them if
you are to expand.

3. Make about 2 serpant class escorts with tech 10 engines and disrupters
on them. They will be good for moving money around. I usually have at
least 10,000 mc on each serpant going to one strabase or another.


 

<Johan Roraback, RORABACKJ@BETHANY.BETHANYLB.EDU>

You will have a lot of money, If you don't you arn't the Lizards. I
normally build atleast 100-200 mines on all my planets unless they are
completely worthless. Even with the Lizard Mining Ability I cannot keep
expanding unless I get that influx of minereals.

I also normally build at least 100 factories on each planet, these will
keep you supplied for building all those mines. also it is a nice added
cashflow if money somehow gets low.

Last but not least I max up my defences on every planet. It may seem
wastefull but I've suppriesed a few attackers who thought they could pick
off an easy planet You have the money and supplies for it spend it.

Building all these things on your planets is likely to catch the
attention of the natives. I normally keep my tax level low on most
planets unless I think I can get major money outa them. You only need
5-6 planets producing 10,000 mc a turn each to support even a great
empire. If you don't know how to make a planet do this, read your docs,
look for the Hiss mishion.


<Pawel S. Hachaj, BEJ@DRUID.IF.UJ.EDU.PL>

To make a neverstopping fleet make an aliance with the ROBOTS!
You may sell them yoyr cloaking cruisers and buy their ships (mainly
carriers -> Instrumentality which can take 150% damage is a space
vampire!). And can you imagine a cloaking cruiser with 290 tech10
torpedos and only one launcher (enough) in the manipulators [ ;-) ]
of robots, with their *4 minefield bonus?...

So find a thrustworthy robotic partner NOW !!!

Bejozaurus I, the great khan of the Lizards


<Richard Nadolny, RICHARDN@OUTSIDE.COM>

As with all races, the ships you build depend on what phase of the game
you're playing and what the ships will be used for. These are my
recommendations; your mileage and results may vary.

Small DSF: Don't build these. Save your money and minerals for ships
better suited to helping you win. (Although, if you are trying to fill
a ship slot to keep it from an enemy, keep one in the queue at low-tech
starbases until you can queue up something else.)

Serpent Class Escort: Most efficient use is as a hisser. Cheap to build,
one of these with all tech one is normally the first ship you build at a
new starbase. With tech ten engines, it can be used as a money runner,
but I prefer the Reptile for that.

Reptile Class Destroyer: This is your primary scout ship. Use to probe
enemy defenses and capture freighters. Can also be used as a money runner
(cloaking hides your routes), a towing ship, and a hisser for captured
planets. Good fuel economy.

Neutronic Fuel Carrier: You will need these in the mid-to-late game to
ferry fuel to your forward ships. Have the advantage of being able to
transport money with no fuel.

Medium DSF: An early game ship that is used for colonizing, and
transporting minerals to your bases (and planets you have targeted for a
starbase).

Lizard Class Cruiser: The primary weapon in your ground attack arsenal.
One of these loaded with troops can take over most enemy planets; a fleet
of 3-4 will definitely increase your real estate holdings. Used in fleets,
1-2 should be loaded with torps for minefield/battle purposes, or half
torps and half supplies (for battle damage repair). Used in conjunction
with Reptiles (as scouts), you can ground attack several planets at once,
which is much more effective than planet hopping. Warning: These ships use
a lot of fuel, so make the necessary arrangements to refuel them.

Eros Class Research Vessel: You need lots of colonists for ground attack,
and they grow best on temp 50 worlds, so you'll want a few Eroses to cool
those hot planets. These ships do double duty, cooling and hissing at the
same time. And with torps, they are better at defending a planet than a
Serpent. Remember that a planet is cooled one degree for EACH Eros in
orbit per turn, so multiple Eroses are most effective. When used in pairs,
one with tech six engines can tow another to the next planet when temp 50
is reached.

Vendetta Class Frigate: This ship is rarely built. The small cargo hold
does not lend to minelaying, and its small size does not make it battle
worthy. I only recommend them as defensive ships at starbases where you
can't yet build "real" ships with tech ten engines.

Large DSF: The backbone of your supply lines. Bite the bullet and put
good engines on them, you don't want to tie up valuable ship slots with
towing ships unless absolutely necessary. Transport minerals to your
starbase worlds, then take colonists back to your developing worlds to
better mine them (and grow more colonists on more worlds).

Saurian Class Light Cruiser: A versatile ship often overlooked by Lizard
players. While it is smaller than the LCC, it is cheaper and more
fuel-efficient. Can be used to ground attack lightly defended enemy
planets, and is especially useful at laying minefields within enemy space.
Use as a cloaking freighter at your front lines, a scout ship, a towing
ship (both your and enemy ships) and a minesweeper.

Loki Class Destroyer: The famous decloaking ship is very useful in a
defensive mode at starbases against cloaking races. In such roles, can be
used as a hisser too. Other than decloaking and minelaying, not a very
useful ship. One advantage: since you are immune to the Loki's effects,
you can easily sneak up on the Federation player depending on =his= Lokis
for protection from cloakers.

Madonnzila Class Carrier: Not a very useful ship. The low number of beams
and fighter bays make it an expensive target. The only excuse for these
ships is to ferry fighters from established starbases to forward ones
needing more fighter defenses.

Super Transport Freighter: You might want a few of these for sending large
amounts of minerals to your starbases. The advantage is you can visit
several planets on your pickup run, then deposit the entire load at your
starbase. If you build one, use tech ten engines.

Neutronic Refinery Ship: You will =need= these ships for your fuel-hungry
fleet in the late game. As fuel resources dry up, your fleet will quickly
become stranded unless you have the means to resupply them. This ship,
combined with NFCs for transporting fuel, are very important to your
long-term strategy.

Merlin Class Alchemy Ship: Also an important ship to your long-term
survival. While Lizards are good miners and taxers, you will still need
minerals and supplies to feed the Neutronic Refinery Ships. And Merlins
quickly turn Bovinoid worlds (with enough colonists) into starbases.

T-Rex Class Battleship: Your primary battle weapon. This ship is
relatively cheap for you to build, and you should churn them out. Build
about half with tech one beams (you'll lose them against enemy carriers)
and half with tech ten beams (your enemies will mine as a defense against
your cloakers). It takes 3-4 T-Rexes to take out a Gorbie, so only use
enough torps to do the job at hand. You should also carry a lot of
supplies along to repair battle damage. Since you should also have a lot
of cash, carry plenty of money to build torps in space with minerals from
all the planets you are taking over with the ground attack.



<Chris Hoyal, HOYALC@MINN.NET>

Whatever it takes, get your hands on a falcon and clone it.
with it's 3 jump range and 120 cargo, they make one of the most effective
troop transports ever. Very cheap, HYPer jumpable, and large cargo
combine to be make this ship a must have.

=======<1.3>=========================< The Birdmen >======================

Birdmen are monstrous cloakers. They can cloak nearly all, one occasionally
wonders that one can still see their planets.
Also they can, via the super spy mission, find out your friendly code in
order to steal fuel and other stuff from your planets.
Two strategy hints: change your friendly codes on endangered planets each
round, and mine, mine, mine to keep the Birds off your territory!

Your Escort is the Bright Heart. Want more power? Use the Deth Specula.

> Now that planets can have friendly codes of ATT and NUK, what good is the
> Bird Men Super Spy Mission?
> Is there still anyway to steal from planets?

Well, since when a Bird Man is on a Super Spy mission, cloaking is part of the
mission, it is kind of hard for a planet to NUK or ATTack something that for
all planetary sensors that is not there...

Birdmen - The strongest race in the game by far. The new hosts have brought
the Robots off of the throne with the limits on minefields (a welcome change).
People talk about the cheap Fascist battleship, but the Birdman battleship
costs a few dollars and a few moly more for two more tubes and CLOAKING. This
ship can decimate any race's defenses if used properly. In addition, all the
little ships have good cargo space, torps, and cloaking which makes them great
explorers/colonizers. They don't have a carrier worth crap, but who needs
carriers when you have fleets of Darkwings? The greatest weakness of the Birds
is finding that big money planet so they can boost their technology. Once the
economy is strong, this bunch will take over, Golems and Gorbies aside...

:One thing about this is that if you Super Spy, then aren't you open to being
:attacked by the other player's warships? Surely you lose any element of
:surprise? If you attempt it on a planet with a...

No, you are still cloaked while you Super Spy, which makes it one of the
more useful race capabilities in the game.

>How many DarkWings can a task force of two Biocides, with about 110 fighters
>each, expect to beat? Best case? Worst case?

.... for my 2c, I reckon the two Biocides will take out 5 DarkWings. I know a
Virgo can take out two and still be only about 50% damaged, so a Biocide might
take out three, hence a second Bio will take out numbers four and five
(assuming number three is badly wounded by the first Bio, even if it isn't
destroyed). Sorry about that .....


<Reinout Van Rees, ???>

n article <38gab8Elkj@uni-erlangen.de>,
tnfechne@cip.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Torsten Fechner) writes:
> hello players,
>
> i am playing the birds but i am not happy with this race.
> the super spy is not usefull und building fighters in space is not
> supported.

* Super spy is NOT usefull if you talk about stealing enemy friendly
codes (most players keep changing them), but it's VERY usefull to
get to know the strength of the planetary defence. Also you can
see how many money the planet owns (=> is the planet worth the
attack). It allows you to plan your attacks quite well!

* It's not a fighter race, so there's no way of building fighters in
space. You have other abilities: Cloacking! A cloaking battleship
can mean more danger than a carrier! If you want to use carriers,
don't play the birds. If you can handle the bird mens cloacking
capability well, you're very, very hard to beat!
You must allways take a race that fits you. If you're sneaky, take

the pirates. If you don't want fancy tricks and special abilities
(that are hard to use well) take a 'normal' race like the feds or
the rebels. They have to work hard for their living, but they have
a quite decent fleet. Just take a look at the differences and try
to get an idea of which race fits you best.
In the meantime, try to master some birdmen-skill. It's a great
race, you can really be a pest to others. They will most certainly
FEAR your cloacking capabilities! If you don't like it afterwards,
take on another race.

> what effect has it if i cloack all my ships? enemy couldn't see them,

* Imagine: you've got a cluster of planets (about 7) in a remote
part of your empire. There is a starbase on one of the planets.
No sign of trouble from your neighbours. The birds don't seem to
pay you any attention and the crystallines are too busy fighting
the fascists.
Suddenly, in one turn, several PREVIOUSLY CLOACKED deth speculas

blast all of your planets into oblivion while a darkwing demolishes
your starbase. OOPS!!!
Meanwhile, there seem to be several small cloakers in your territory
that seem to have a big hunger for freighters... You'll have to
guard all your transports with escorting ships...

Get the idea?

> but if they scan the ships there is now danger for my because i could
> scan the enemy, too....

??? I don't understand you :-(

> what are the best strategies to play the birds?
> how to deal with the super spy mission? if there is a starbase, Spy is
> very dangerous (surrender....)

* You can superspy a planet with starbase to get to know the strengt
and value of the planet BUT DON'T CHANGE YOUR FRIENDLY CODE TO THE
STARBASE'S!!! Use the superspy to gather information, not to steal
stuff. If it works one time, the rest of the game it won't.

Reinout van Rees
Delft
The Netherlands


<Mike Lemon, ???>

cg@primenet.com (CG) wrote:
> Before you get rich enough materialwise to build DW's..you need to build
> a strong fleet of Resolutes and Fearless Wings..these ships work well as
> freighters also. The Resolutes are especially nice for taking planets..hence
> the Super Spy Mission...locate your enemys richest planets using it. The SS
> mission is also very nice for getting materials and fuel.

Less useful on controlled planets than uncontrolled. Super Spy tells
you where your neighbors' homeworlds are. Learn that ASAP. Keep some
Swift Heart scouts running around in your neighbors' (even friendly
ones) looking for his weak points. When your ready, send a swarm
of Darkwings to his bases, and Resolutes to his support planets,
and nuke him till he glows in one turn. Have a couple Resolutes/
Fearless Wings lay *gobs* and *gobs* of mines the same turn.

Then mop him up.....

Problems with the DarkWing: Fuel, Fuel, Fuel. Its a '72 Boss
Mustang with a Geo Metro fuel tank. Use White Falcons to tow

them around, and the falcons double as protective minelayers.

Most importantly, don't show yourself until at least turn 10
if at all possible.

Mike Lemon


<???,???>

>In article <1994Oct3.152154.1@leif> rtaylor@kean.ucs.mun.ca writes:

>> Is there any info on playing the birds? Doesen't seem to be
>>anything in the FAQ.

I've got different suggestions than the last poster (Tom). One of the
advantages of the birds is that their ships are relatively small. That
gives them the advantage early on, as they can produce some good ships
while the empire or robots are struggling to put out a ship.

Use your cloaking scout to explore potentially contested areas, and enemy
space. If you want to go to way with someone, then send in these and White
Falcons to attack and destroy any and every freighter you can get your
hands on. The Falcon is capable of missions deep inside enemy lines!
Early on, people won't have minerals or cash to build big mine fields, so
take advantage of this and scout their territory looking for valuable
planets and ships.

When you get involved in serious war (at whatever point in the game) then you

can use these early ships to scout for enemy forces. The Falcon (and the
scout depending on host settings) can weaken enemy defence by towing an
enemy ship away from where it is defending, therby making the original
target more volnerable. For example, your spies have revealed a valuable
starbase that is pumping out golums; arrive there with 2-3 darkwings. At
the same time, tow away any defending ships. You will then hit and destroy
the starbase with little difficulty. You may not be able to keep the base,
but you will force the enemy to recolonise it, and rebuild the base.


<Robert, RTRIFTS@INFORAMP.NET>

michaelc@defcen.GOV.AU (Michael Croft) wrote:

>We are about to start a registered game. I'm playing
>the Birdman.
>I know that a head on attack is not the tactics used
>for this race. But am not sure of what I should do
>first. Or the best way to defend against attacks.
>Should I hire my spying services to other races?
>

Mike,

Everyone plays differently, and the aggressiveness of the Birds
(or Romulans if you prefer - as I do:)) depends on your
situtation. The Romulans are well equipped. particularly in the
Middle Game to Blast away at the enemy if that is what the
situation requires.

As a general rule, use your Swift Hearts to Scout, Your White
Falcons for short to long range cloaking colonization. Deth
Speculas, Resolutes and Darkwings for Offense. Use minefields
and do use Bright Hearts for anti-freighter work.

Squadrons of Cloaking Ships may be used for Wolf Pack tactics
against individual enemy ships. By towing ships stationed at a

base to your waiting ships, you can selectively choose which
ships you wish to engage. A costly fight against five ships in
a row can be broken up in to two or more combats (usually you
only get in two though:)) to good effect, and this minimizes
your losses. And if the ships are there for Base defense -
there isn't a helluva lot he can dpo about it. Poorly engine
equipped ships, like simple fighter producers or even Merlins
can be towed out by a Sacrificial Lamb. You don't even have to
bother to engage it with "rela ships" as with thoise engines
he'll be along time getting back home - and when he does it
won't be his home any longer.

Despite the fuel problems on the DarkWing, it is an incredibly
powerful and cheap ship - and it chooses when and where to fight
- not the other way around. Resolutes and Deth Speculas when
deployed in numbers and co-operating are *quite* nasty, and
capable of taking on a Starbase (expect losses of course). Go

get em! The Romulans when played properly are a fearsome race.

If this is the opening game phase, well armed Deth Speculas can
handle most of what any race will be able to throw at you
(within reason of course) till about Turn 15-20 depending upon
settings. When they start to get outgunned, bring in the
heavier Resolute and DarkWings.

If you are near the Privateers in the opening game - just
Blitz em and keep at it. No mercy. It'll be the only chance you
are likley to get so take it while you can.

.Robert
robert.trifts@canrem.com
rtrifts@inforamp.net


<Zac Gray, ZGRAY@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

Hey all,

Since there is so little written about good birdman
strategy (the dred lord battle manual has all of about 12 lines),
I though I'd share a couple of things that I've
learned in a recent game I've played. Take what you like
and ignore the rest.

The beginning:

The key to playing the birdmen well is milking your
cloaking advantage for everything its worth. Your first
two ships should Swifthearts with transwarp drives and
x-rays (disruptors if you've got the $$$). Load them with
colonists and send them off on their way. These ships
should never attack anything but cargos, and then only
when you're 101% assured of safety. Keep them cloaked at all
times - sending them from planet to planet, dropping
colonists on worlds with good native races/populations.
Also, don't plan on these things returning home - Swifties
can go forever on a single tank of fuel, and by refuel at
unowned worlds they can travel all the way across the
galaxy. This allows you to build a database of info on the

good planets they've visited - which you can ultimately sell
to your allies (people will pay handsomely for that bovinoid
monarchy w/ 8,000,000 inhabitants!).

After the scouts you should build 3-5 Fearless Wings. These
will be the backbone of your early expansion. With 240
cargo space and a fuel tank of 360, the Fearless Wing is a
fantastic cloaked freighter. Put Mark IV torps on them and
some disruptors (that way they can double as pirates,
allowing you to capture enemy colonists for your own
colonization efforts). Head straight for worlds with good
native populations (discovered by your Swifties) - pay close
attention to the government type, as it has a profound
impact upon the $$$ produced. The worlds you want, in order
of preference, are: Bovinoid, Insectiod, Avian, etc.
Later, when you're in the business of building a bunch of
starbases, go for the other interesting native worlds.
Unless you really need the minerals, ignore no-native worlds
that lie outside of your travel routes. (The ones along

your flight paths are good for refueling and should
ultimately be colonized.)

The most important thing for the birds is not letting
anyone know where your homeworlds are. Get your defeneces
up to 101 as soon as you can (so they can't see you via
sensor sweep), and keep those damn freightors cloaked.
You'll be very tempted to build Large Freighters to move
your people quicker - AVOID THIS TEMPTATION. Ultimately,
try to beg, borrow or steal a GRAV ACCELERATED ship from the
privateers (an MBR). With this you can tow your large
freighters from one world to the next, denying the enemy the
ability to locate your shipping routes - and hence your
planets. A good trade with the privateers is for you to
offer to clone some of the ships he captures for him (he
can't do this himself, and this allows you the chance to
make your own copies if you like). Ideally he should pay
for the cloning and offer an MBR or two for your trouble.

As far as early defence goes, you are well equiped to deal

with most medium tech ships (watch out for the fascist Ill
Wind, though - at 275 KT w/ 10 beams and two torps it is a
bloody killer). Ignore the White Falcon, as it is a hybrid
which does nothing well. A good early battle group is an
equal mix Bright Hearts and Fearless Wings. The Bright
Hearts are cannon fodder (mass of only 80 KT), but with 4
tubes they pack quite a punch. Early in the game I put Mark
IV torps and x-rays on them (sometimes I leave off the beams
altogether), and load them up with 10-12 torps. They won't
survive against any halfway decent torp ship, but they do a
great job of softening them up. Against carriers I
alternate my order of attack: Bright Heart, Fearless Wing,
Bright Heart, Fearless...The Bright Hearts do the damage,
while the Fearless Wings take care of fighters. Also, a
single Bright Heart with at least Mark IV torps can often up
a medium sized ship to the point where a moderately-defended
planet can survive an attack (the torps do some damge, but

more importantly there beams won't charged and one of your
first two waves of fighters will get through...if its a torp
ship) Finally, don't waste money on fancy engines for your
home-defence Bright Hearts, as they'll never go anywhere
alone...Tow them.

As a birdman, though, you should engage enemy vessels (other
than cargos) only when *absolutely* necessary. Almost
everyone else (with the exception of the fascists) has
stronger, heavier ships than you do. Your warships are for
attacking planets and generally harassing the enemy's
shipping. You should be the guerilla warfare master of the
game. Lay small unexpected minefields throughout the
enemy's territory (Fearless Wings are excellent for this - a
FW with tech 10 torps can carry enough mines for one HELL of
a huge minefield). Use superspy to gather info on your
enemy and plan your attacks accordingly. Pay attention
to fuel levels at his starbases. If his fuel is low (you
can tell this if he has a bunch of ships sitting in orbit

that obviously aren't for defence), try towing newly
produced ships from orbiit. Chances are he doesn't have
"BIRDMEN" set as primary enemy, so he won't attack you when
you stop. If your guess about his fuel status is correct,
then cograts, you're now the proud owner of a brand-spanking
new enemy ship. Remember, your strength is stealth, not
brute force.

As the game progresses:

Since your ships are less powerful, you're going to need
more of them to prevail in a stand-up fight. That means
that you want to avoid this kind of thing if possible. If
not, you want it to occur later in the game so you'll have
had time to build a fleet of 30 Darkwings (or something
crazy like that). Fortunately, for you, the birdies often
share a ground combat advantage with the fascists (usually,
birdmen get a 5X advantage). This means that a Fearless
Wing loaded with colonists effectively carries the
equivilent of 1200 troops. Beaming these guys down from
orbit whie cloaked can be a real headache for your

opponents. Three fully loaded Fearless Wings (3600 troops)
can take almost any planet (besides a homeworld) without
losing a single ship. This should be your primary way to
take starbases (you get to keep them!!!). Just don't make
an enemy of the lizards.

Ultimately, your battle groups should consist mainly of
Darkwings and Resolutes, with Fearless Wings as troop
transports and resupply ships (Resolutes are good in the
resupply role also). With 10 Beams and 8 torps and a
reasonable mass, the Darkwing is a great ship. It's
Achilles heal is its piddly 290 KT fuel tank. The Resolute
with 480 KT fuel makes a nice escort. When you start
building Darkwings & Resolutes (and possibly before, if you
can afford it), you'll need to upgrade to Mark VII or Mark
VIII torps. This firepower will help to offset your lower
ship mass in the short run (actually, for this reason, I
make the switch to mark VII's as soon as I can afford to and
ultimately switch to Mark VIII's, money permitting)...

Ultimately, though, everyone will have this kind of
firepower. Which brings me to the next topic. Allies.

As a "weaker" race, you're going to need help from the
big boys in order to take out the really powerful foes out
there. Your best alliance is with one of the free fighter
races. Gemini's producing free fighters for you starbases
and defending Valiant Winds (which you use *only* for
starbase defence, and *only* if you have a source of free
fighters - otherwise ignore them) can do a lot for security
on the home front. On the offensive, your cloaking ships
can do the scouting, provide recon, lay irritating
minefields, take planets via ground assault, and harrass
their shipping, while the Virgos and the Rushes do the real
fighting. Remember, as a general rule, you'll need 3
Darkwings plus escorts to do the job a single big carrier
can accomplish.

Short list stuff to remember when playing birds:

(1) *Always* cloak.
(2) Don't bother with no-native worlds (unless you're
stealing them from the enemy).

(3) Use ground assault instead of ship-to-ship comabt.
(4) Don't use large freighters in the open until *after* the
enemy already knows the locations of your worlds.
(5) Ground assault combined with minefields can make your
advance through his outer worlds practically unstoppable.
(6) Despite all the attention that Deth Specs get, the
Fearless Wing is your single best weapon. It functions
as cloaked minelayer, cargo/troop transport, pirate, and
theif.
(7) Learn how to use superspy effectively. An empty
Fearless Wing can steal 240 KT of molybdenum. This
can be quite frustrating for your opponents.
(8) If you don't know more about your neighbors than
they know about you, you're doing something very
wrong. In most cases, you should know the locations of
their starbases and good planets before they even know
you're there. Only the Empire has more info gathering
ability than you.
(9) Choose your alliances carefully. (It is a good idea
for the birdies to eliminate their weaker neighbor quite

early in the game. Again, use ground assault for this.)
(10) Read and reread Sun Tzu's classic text The Art of War.
Everything you need to be victorious is here. Ho Chi Mihn
used it during the Vietnam war...

Your ships and what they're usefull for:

Swift Heart: best scout in the game
White Falcon: don't build 'em
Bright Heart: early defence; great cannon-fodder against
bigger ships
Fearless Wing: cloaked freighter/minelayer/troop transport;
also makes a good minesweeper or marauder (6 beams)
Skyfire: don't build 'em
Valiant Wind: good for home defence; especially if you have
access to free fighters
Deth Specula: reasonable escort and marauder; its small
cargo space makes it pathetic for most other birdy
activities though; not massive enough for a reliable
warship
Resolute: good minesweeper & anti-fighter ship; still, its
too light to take on a respectable carrier; I build two
versions, one with tech 10 beams for minesweeping, and
one with x-rays and mark VIII's to soften up a carrier
for my darkwings; its most important role is as a
resupply ship, though
Redwind: never had the occasion to build one; probably a
waste of time unless you have access to free fighters
Darkwing: cloaking battleship; need i say more? Darkwings
are no match for the other big ships, though,so use
them wisely and in groups; the real advantage here is
obvious - you can wait in orbit until he has no defend-
ing ships and them open fire; good stuff ;)

Finally, a few warnings. Host configuration settings can
have a profound impact on your success. You don't
want to play the birds in games where:

*The cloak failure rate is greater than 5%
*The meteor impact rate is too high (kills too many of
the natives + 500 ship limit is reached too quickly)
*The birdmen don't have a ground combat advantage

Any of these can really take the wind out of your sails.
Actually, the second one is a pain in the butt no matter

what race you play (except perhaps the Feds).

Finally some words about the often mis-understood uses of
the Birdmen Superspy.

What you can use it for:
(1) Recon
(2) Stealing Stuff (supplies, fuel, moly, dur, trit)
(3) Stealing $$$

Recon is the best use for superspy. It provides you with
detailed info on number of colonists, factories, defences,
mines, minerals, starbases, etc. Every planet should be
superspyed before you take it so you know *exactly* what to
expect. *Warning*, there is a 20% chance that a superspying
ship will be detected and hit with an ion pulse which
uncloaks _all_ cloaked ships in orbit. You are then at the
mercy of his defences. DO NOT KEEP SHIPS IN ORBIT ON
CONTINUAL SUPERSPY!

Stealing stuff is quite simple, so long as your opponent is
sloppy about changing his friendly codes. Here's the deal:

(1) Superspy
(2) Change your FC to match his
(3) Set your waypoint to a few LY's away and your mission to
gather whatever you like.

What happens: since gathering takes place before movement,
which takes place before combat, you end up a few light
years away, uncloaked, with a hold full of goodies.
*Warning* don't do this repeatedly at the same planet with
the same ship. A savy opponent will have a capital ship set
to intercept your theif waiting in orbit around his world.
After you move away he'll come right after you and pummel
you. (You're no longer cloaked, remember...thats the reason
for leaving orbit in the first place.)

Stealing $$$. This is dangerous, and seldom worth a
concerted effort. As a matter of course, all ships which I
set to superspy with have their FC's set to "bum" which is
the planetary FC which causes planets to beam all their MC's
up to ships in orbit. Since you have a 20% chance of
changing the planetary FC to match yours everytime you
superspy - 20% of the time you superspy a planet you'll end
up with a ship full of cash. Don't be greedy and leave a
ship in orbit superspying with "bum" set. You're still just

as vulnerable to ion pulses...

Hope all of this helps. The birds are a subtle race, and can
be quite powerful if played correctly. Someone once
suggested the birds as a good race for beginners. Its
certainly true that you learn a great deal getting pasted
the first time you play the birds, however, I'd recommend
the rebels or the colonies as a first shot. That way you can
have a look at everyone elses tactics while relying on your
awesome carriers to see you through to the end of the
game...However, I must admit that nothing in the world
compares to the feeling you get when you decloak a fleet of
darkwings over and enemy planet. Or perhaps beam a shipload
of birdman commandos down on unsuspecting colonists.

Cheers, and good luck.

See you 'round the echo cluster.

Zac
zgray@orion.it.luc.edu


<Oleg Shvartsman, OS80308@LTU.EDU>

> Ok, so I'm the bird men and I cloak a ship, send it to an enemy planets, and
> set mission to SuperSpy. This sets his friendly code to match mine. What
> does this do for me? I can't take his planet. I can beam up stuff on the
> following turn, but by then he'll be quite aware I'm there and could easily
> switch his code to NUK so that after I beam up whatever, I get toasted(unless
> I leave immediately - hmmm. Does the sequence go gather, move, combat? if
> so, then there's one possible use...)
>
> Aside from grabbing supplies from the surface, what is it good for?
> Can it be used to grab enemy colonists?
> Can it be used to take over a starbase/planet?
> What fiendish uses has anyone found for the Super Spy mission?

There are several nice tricks for superspy deluxe.
BUT, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT YOU HAVE ONLY 20% CHANCE OF CHANGING HIS FR.
CODE AND THAT HE HAS 20 % CHANCE OF DETECTING AND DE-CLOAKING YOU if he has
more than 20 defenses.

1) When using superspy deluxe, you can ignore his NUK fr. code because you will
stay cloaked, and unless you pull a "gather" mission you casn safely ignore
it.

2) You can SET his FC to NUK and he'll attack orbiting allies (if he has any).
3) You can set his FC to bum and he'll beam you all the money on the surface.
No need to leave after this.
4) You can set a base code to dmp and he'll recycle all ship parts in storage.
MAYBE it cancels ship construction, I don't know.
5) You can take over heavily defended planets (by lots of strong ships). Here
is what you do:
a) get 5 ships to his planet defended by HUGE fleet. Not combat ships will do,
but cloaking.
b) get a cloaked Darkwing nearby.
c) Change his planet's FCode to NUK
d) jettison fuel from that Darkwing so that he'll arrive to the lpanet WITHOUT
any fuel.
e) The ships ignore the Darkwing (he's fuelless), but the planet attacks him.
He toasts the planet (battleships are pretty good at that). Next turn, the
planet is yours, you refuel, cloak and get the hell out of there.

There are some more tricks, but I can't think of any more right now.

Oleg.

OS80308@ltu.edu (OLEG SHVARTSMAN)


<Mark, STARFIRE72@AOL.COM>


<<If you are playing the Birds, DON'T build Deth Speculas.>>

I dont agree... (my two cents, I know..."who asked me")

<< Their mass is too low for the tech level. It is just a waste of money
building them. >>

But they make efficient, vicious fighters and they can travel a long way
on a full fuel tank and full torpedo load... and they sweep mines
extremely well also. (again, my two cents, I know..."who asked me")

Mark
starfire72@aol.com (Starfire72)



<Achim Schwarz, AMSCHWAR@CIP.INFORMATIK.UNI-ERLANGEN.DE>

The Bird Men have got the most powerful cloaking ships, The Resolute and
the Darkwing. Though, they are inferior to other ships e.g. the Diplomacy
and the Rush, used wisely they will do a great job. Always remember, You
don't have to fight, if You don't want it. If combat is necessary, do it
Your way!

Especially the Colonies and the Rebels rely on battle groups to defend
their territory. A Gemini-Patriot-Cygnus battle group will surely kill a
Resolute.

Here is the solution:

TOW ATTACK I
------------
Try to predict the course of the battlegroup and go there cloaked.
If You were right, try to tow the Gemini away and detroy it in deep space.
If the Patriot isn't fully loaded, it's toothless and You should be able
to kill it easily with the same method. If it is fully loaded You may
need a cloaked support ship (Fearless Wing for example) with supplies to
repair it.
Then a lonely Cygnus ist easy prey ...

COUNTER TACTICS I
-----------------
Move unpredictable, so the Bird Men will not know were You will be.
Move full 81 ly to break any possible tow.
Mine.

COUNTER-COUNTER TACTICS I
-------------------------
Do the tow-attack sometimes. If he is scared and moves his ships constantly,
he will waste a lot of fuel (at least if no Cobol is present). Lay some
minefields here and there and he may reconsider.

If he won't go, where You want him to go, tell him!
The Resolute (X-Ray, Mark VII) is capable of destoying any planet.
It may take some damage, but with super-spy you should know, if there
are enough supplies to repair and minerals/cash to replenish your torpedo
stock (Remember the crew is not restored!). Sooner or later some ships will
arrive at the planet to reclaim it. Now You're at the same position, voila!

If he is smart enough to move out again with waypoint set > 81 ly, lay
a big minefield and don't forget to scoop it afterwards. Perhaps not the
best idea if You're up against the colonies though.

Resolutes with Heavy Phasers are great minesweepers. Do some minesweeping,
cloak and move afterwards. It will be difficult to intercept the Resolute
and destroy it. If You're afraid of intercepting, lay a minefield instead
and move away. If an enemy ship is intercepting You, it will have to go
through the whole minefield and face some unpleasant surprise.

TOW ATTACK II
-------------
A starbase is a very powerful oppponent.
Standard tactic says 'Hit it with three Darkwings'. That's expensive.
Typically a starbase is protected by a strong ship. Go to the base and
tow it out. Do this with a cheap ship, because You will loose it.
But the base is unprotected now. A fully stocked starbase may even
kill a Gorbie, but some fighter less and the Gorbie will take it with ease.
Well, the Bird Men don't have a heavy Carrier. Send two Resolutes and a
Darkwing. The first Resolute should have X-Rays and some torpedoes, just
to take out a newly build ship (normally bases are set to force a surrender)
and destroy some fighters of the base. The second Resolute won't need
any launchers, there will be no chance to use them. He will also shoot down
24 fighters and go boom. The Darkwing will destoy 20 incoming fighters
without damage so there shouldn't be left many. Without fighters, the
starbase will be crushed.

TOW ATTACK III
--------------
You need minerals. Your neighbour doesn't want to give it to You.
Just go, sneak and destroy his planets and grab as much as You can
(You should do this anyway anytime (except in times of peace, perhaps)).
In case, he is smart and moves the minerals to his starbase You'll have a
problem. Heavily protected it is difficult to get the minerals and cash.
If You try to gather via Super-Spy-Deluxe you'll lose the ship
(they will surrender because of the matching FC).
Go in cloaked with 5 Swift Heart Scouts and a squadron of Resolutes or Fearless
Wings. Set the Scouts to Super-Spy with FC "bum", so You will get the money,
and half of the other ships to gather minerals and
transfer all but 1 kt Neutronium to Your ships.
Set the other ships to tow the gathering ships home again.
The gathering ships will gather the minerals and surrender. The towing
ships will tow them out, to force a surrender at the Bird's starbase.
Unfortunately the surrendered ships will have fuel and are not willing to do
anything the Bird Men will like.
Nasty Situation! Solution: Diplomacy (suprise, eh?)
You will need either the Crystals to lay a small webfield or the Privateers
to rob the gathering ships.
The Privateers may double-cross You and get away with the minerals alone.
Bad luck, You won't do it again and they cannot do it without the Birds.
The Crystals will need a cloaking minelayer, so be careful! But they cannot
clone and will need a constant supply of cloakers because they'll be
having some losses due to mines. Remember, You'll have to tow
through a webminefield, so take care of the FC of Your towers. The drain
will also affect the other ships, make sure You have got enough fuel!

That's enough hints for us now, lads ...


<Matt Wokasch, XTRESMISTS@AOL.COM>

So you want to kill a Powerfull race???

This is quite complex but here we go.

1) Send out SEVERAL Deth Spaculas. This is for several reasons.

1) The Super-spy tells you EVERYTHING about a specified planet.

2) Can easily take out weak-medium warships and freighters.

3) Can Be used to sweep mines and recloak a turn later, just to sweep
again.

2) Fearlesses...

1) NEVER build these things!!! This is a useless ship that is outdone
by the Deth.

2) Unless! You need to get several supplies/minerals to a planet
undetected.

3) Bright hearts.

1) If used under Raceplus this ship is the MOST powerfull. It never
needs to fight. Cloaks Does the damage of a mine hit for a mear
40 sup

4) White Falcon

1) When making an attack on HIGH level planets (Heavy ships over them)
these become an invaluable adition to the fleet. Think about it,
why not just tow away the large ships Sure you might lose the falcon
but he lost the chance to attack with the Large ship, and most likely
the planet can not defend itself from a Darkwing.

5) If Possible

1) Find an Amorphous planet in the region you wish to attack then
transport fuel here. Due to the minimal fuel supply of all the
useful ships this is VERY important.

6) Darkwings (my favorite)

1) A very usefull ability of this ship is its cloak (I know that this
may seam obvious but here is why)

a) Make attacks on ships and planets that YOU want to attack.

b) Scare people - If another race knows you are somewhat powerfull
write a note to them saying you have a DW or 2 over their HW then
you can ask for whatever you want...

2) Most (In general) DWs should have Disruptors and Mark 4 Photons
This makes best use of your minerals I have found.

7) Starbases

1) Build a starbase on planets that can produce a constant supply of
Deth Spaculas for atleast 15 turns. Else it may be more useful to
leave fuel there for a "Gas station" and move minerals to a better
planet.

2) In general a Birdman race should have a MINIMUM of 3 Darkwings by
turn 20. MINIMUM!!!!!

8) Any ships I have not mentioned have VERY specific and useful tricks
Hey, I can't tell you everything...

Write me if you want more tips....


<David Willard, DAVEW@PACIFIER.COM>

In one game I was playing, the other player was being a bit agressive
and decided to sent some scout ships to raid my planets. Little did he
know that his warfleet passed right by 7 cloaked Darkwings, 8 Fearless
Cruisers, and 5 Resolutes. I managed to dump enough colonists on the
major starbased planets of the Cyborg to convert them to the Bird cause.
The planets that had major defenses were stomped by the Darkwings.

The Chunneling fireclouds were toasted by Fearless Wing cruisers with
mk 7 torps. Always load torpedo ships for at least five vollies of fire.
i.e. 3 tubes would require 15 torps.. I also managed to send send cloaked
ships through the Cyborg chunnel without his knowledge, use it as a weapon
to eradicate the several outposts. The Cyborg have this habit of spreading
across 1500 ly of space in clumps.

Timing of the attack is the key issue. It took 10 turns to arrange the
cloaked ships in the correct places. It dealt a body blow to the Cyborg
because he lost his ship building capacity. No bases to surrender captured
freighters, his fleet was 300 ly in the wrong place. The home defenses
were resolutes and more fearless cruisers to mine the heck out of the area.
So the Borg player was trashed to the inner core, had offensive forces on
both sides of his fleet, and had to retreat through a minefield. Ick!


<Zach Gray, ZGRAY@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

Ultimately, your battle groups should consist of Darkwings and Resolutes,
with Fearless wings as troop transports and resupply ships. With 10 Beams,
8 tubes, and a reasonable mass, the Darkwing is a great ship. It's
Achilles Heal is its piddly 290 KT fuel tank. The Resolute with 480 KT
of fuel makes a nice escort. When you start building Darkwings (beyond
your first attack fleet, that is), you'll need to upgrade to mark VII or
mark VIII torps. This additional firepower will help offeset your lower
ship mass. Ultimately, though, everyone will have this kind of technology,
which brings me to the next topic: Allies.

As a weaker torp race, you're going to need help from the big boys in
order to stand up to your really powerful opponents. In a perfect world,
you will have attacked your weaker neighbor at about turn 20, while
eventually allying with your stronger neighbor. Your best alliance is
with one of the free-fighter races. Gemini's producing fighters for your
starbases and Valiant Winds (which you build *only* if you have a source
of free-fighters) can do a lot for security on the home front. On the
offensive, your cloaking ships can do the scouting/recon, lay unexpected
minfields, take planets via groud assault, intercept unescorted freighters,
steal money and resources, and just generally piss them off. In the
meantime, the Virgos and Rushes can do the real fighting. Remember: as
a rule of thumb you'll need 3 Darkwings plus escorts to do the job a
single big carrier can accomplish.

As a birdman, you should engage enemy vessals (other than cargos) only
when *absolutely* necessary. Almost everyone else (with the noted
exceptions of the Privateers and Fascists) have stronger, more massive
ships than you. Your warships are for attacking planets and generally
harassing the enemy. Again, the Fearless Wing is a fantastic ship. With
tech 10 torps a Fearless Wing can effectively mine vast amounts of enemy
territory without returning to base. (Remember, many small mine-fields
beat the hell out of one big one.) Better yet, with a little luck you can
use SUPERSPY to steal credits and build new torps far from your territory.
Use SUPERSPY to gather info on the enemy and plan your attacks accordingly.
Also, pay attention to fuel levels at his starbase. If his fuel is low
(you can tell this if he has a bunch of ships sitting in orbit that
obviously aren't for defence), try towing newly produced ships from orbit.
Chances are he doesn't have "BIRDMAN" set as primary enemy, so he won't
attack you when you stop. If your guess about his fuel status is correct,
then congrats - all you have to do is tow the ship to a starbase and
you're now the proud owner of a brand-spanking new enemy ship. Remember,
your strength is stealth, no brute force.

Another important role which the Fearless Wing can play is troop
transport. Since your ships are less powerful, you're going to need more
of them if you're going to prevail in a stand-up fight. That means you
want to avoid this kind of thing if possible. If not, then you want it
to occur later in the game so you'll have had time to build a fleet of
Darkwings. Fortunately for you, the Birdies often share a ground combat
advantage with the Fascists and Lizards (Ex: Lizards 20X, Fascists 10X,
Birds 5X). This means that a Fearless Wing loaded with colonists
effectively carries 1200 troops. Beaming these guys down from orbit while
cloaked can be a genuine headache for your opponents. The fully loaded
Fearless Wings (eq. 3600 troops) can take almost any non- homeworld. Best
of all, you don't lose a single ship AND you get to keep whatever
structures the enemy has built up. This should be an excellent way for
you to aquire starbases. Just don't make an enemy of the Lizards. ;-)
***

The Fearless Wing

As you can tell by now, I am a big fan of this ship. In my opinion, the
Deth Specula gets way too much attention at the expense of this little gem.
True, the Deth Spec has its uses - it is one of the most effective
jack-of-all-trades around. With 6 beams and 4 torps its packs quite a
punch for its size. Its cargo size of 35, though, severly limits its
usefullness. With four tubes it goes through torps pretty quickly...
In addition, its smaller fuel tanks makes it much less usefull on long
missions. Overall, I'd recommend using the Deth Spec to intercept and
destroy enemy scouts early in the game, to intercept and capture enemy
cargos which venture too close to your territory, and to escort your own
freighters (once they're out in the open, that is). For long missions,
though, the Fearless Wing's cargo and fuel superiority make it a better
deal. Remember, the number of tubes isn't so important in all but your
largest ships. Minelaying/scooping is just as efficient with one tube as
with four!

***

A Breakdown of Your Ships:

Swift Heart: great fuel capacity, low mass, and cloaking make it the
best scout in the game

Bright Heart: an orbiting "torpedo bank", 4 tubes and a low cost make
it a great "fire-and-forget" defensive weapon (less useful
as the game progresses)

Fearless Wing: cloaked freighter/minelayer/troop transport; also makes a
good minesweeper or marauder (6 beams)

Skyfire: Doesn't cloak, don't build 'em

Valiant Wind: good for home defence; only really usefull if you're
super-rich or have access to free-fighters

Deth Specula: reasonable escort and marauder; its tiny cargo makes it
pathetic for most other birdie activities, though

Resolute: good minesweeper & anti-fighter ship; still, it's too light
to take on a respectable carrier; I build two versions: one
with tech 10 beams for minesweeping, and one with x-rays and
mark VII's (or VIII's!) to soften up a carrier (or starbase/
planet) for my darkwings; it's most important role is as a
resupply ship, though

Redwind: never had the ocassion to build one; probably a waste of time
unless you have access to free fighters

Darkwing: cloaking battleship; need I say more? darkwings are no match
for most other battleships, though, so use them wisely and in
groups; the real advantage here is obvious - you can wait one
turn from the target planet until he has no defending ships
in orbit and then blast him


<Peter Eberle, PETERQALPHA.BIO.NAT.TU-BS.DE>

Many say this ship isn't worth the minerals that it costs. But in my eyes
it is one of the greatest ships in the Echocluster at all. It is Cheap,
has great space for Neutronium and only one tube. So you may use this ship
as a fuelcarrier or as a (as I call) miny. Give it one Mark7 tube and 140
torps, sent it deep behind the lines of your enemys and lay great minefields.
Of course you should do this with at least with two WhiteFalcons. Than you
may attack directly with your Battleships. With a little bit luck many of
your enemeys ships exploe in this great minefield.

Some will say "take the Fearless", but have you ever tryed to send this
ship a long way with 200 torps? This sip es better for Groundattack and
as a supportunit for your Darkwings. So believe me the Fearless is the
first step to win. Exspeially against other cloakerraces as the Priv or the
Faschist.

Excuse may bad english. This are may first text for (or since) 4 years.




<Zach Gray, ZGRAY@ORION.IT.LUC.EDU>

One Birdman strategy is to stay out of sight for as long as you can.
By keeping your planetary defences up and your ships cloaked you can
remain undetectable to your enemies, allowing you to allocate more of
your ships to offensive missions. The problem, of course, is that your
large & super freighters don't cloak. Unless all your worlds happen to
be less than 81 Light Years apart, your freighters will be visable in
transit between your worlds. To this end, if possible, you should
arrange a trade with the Privateers. By using their Gravatonic
Accelerated ships, you can tow freighters twice as far normal, allowing
them to remain undetected.

A good trade is for you to offer to clone the ships the Privateers
capture (something he can't do for himself). In a perfect world, he
should pay for the cloning (and minerals!) and toss in some MBR's as
well. MBR's also make very effective scouts.

=======<1.4>==========================< The Fascists >====================>

D. Fascist

Your Escort of Choice is the Thorn, or the Deth Specula.

>> kill the ships, then take over the planet with your sabotage mission still
>> set, you will lose the planet because of sabotaging your one token clan.

> I've (as the Fascists) pillaged to death a single clan before. And
> purely because I didn't bother to simulate the situation first.
> Simulation is the best answer to these sorts of questions.

Actually Rebel sabotage is somewhat more predictable than Fascist Pillage.
In a recent game of [3.11d] I have found that Pillaging an Amorphous planet is
highly unpredicable. In one case I had 20 clans and after pillaging had 7. In
another case I had 50 clans, but they were all wiped out and I had to
re-colonize. This has continued and I have found repeatedly that the number of
clans you need to start with in order to survive pillaging varies all over the
map.

It isn't explained by the disposition of the natives, they have remained
"calm" for 15 turns. I know Amorphous natives tend to eat 5 clans per turn,
but on some turns it seems they have a smorgaasbord.

> pillaging had 7. In another case I had 50 clans, but they were all
> wiped out and I had to re-colonize. This has continued and I have

Are you dropping the clans in the same turn you pillage? The only other
factor I can think of might be climate. I have been using pillage more of
ten recently, and was hoping to do something like "drop 10 clans, pillage
(and lose 6 clans), drop 6 clans, pillage, etc" to wipe out unsavoury
native populations. The pillaging I've done so far seems to have been
fairly consistent, but I haven't tried an intense pillaging cycle yet.

Sell D7 Coldpains to the Privateers for their Meteor class Gravitics ships.
You get good ships while they get something with a 425+ fuel tank to rob other
people with.

>What good is the Fascist Pillage mission?
>What do other people use the pillage mission for?
>On which planets does pillage work? I tried it on an Amorphous world,
>where I had no colonists, and nothing happened on the first turn, so I left.
>Is pillage any good, or should I ask the Rebels to use their ground attack

You can't pillage unless the planet has colonists on it (yours or someone
elses). What I use it for is to help the Fascits expand faster. When I find
a planet with a native population I beam down 15-20 clans and pillage the
planet. You get 100 supplies and 100 MC for every 1 million natives, you
also kill off 20% of your clans and 20% of the natives. Next turn beam down
more clans their should be plenty of money and supplies to build factories
and mines. Beam up excess money and supplies to use on planets that don't
have native races. Plus you can offer your pillage skills to the Cyborgs
since they often have an over population problem.

> on which planets does pillage work? I tried it on an Amorphous world,
> where I had no colonists, and nothing happened on the first turn, so I left.

There must be colonists on the planet. For example, you could unload 6
colonists onto the planet and Pillage in the same turn (all the colonists
will be killed), and then repeat the procedure the next turn,
systematically exterminating the Amorphous natives.
Unless there were very few natives to start with, you can't really hope to
clear the planet entirely. But since you don't usually build on Amorphous
planets you don't care whether the natives hate you, so you can happily
build up several thousand units of supplies and money with repeated
Pillages.

For offense, the Rebel Ground attack is superior, but Pillaging is by NO MEANS
useless for offense -- it just can't be used as well on a hit and run basis.
On a planet that has no starbase, plundering will give the enemy money and
supplies, but since the population is dying, the defenses, factories, and
mines will SLOWLY dwindle (dependent on the structural decay factor), and
there will be nothing to spend the money on (unless he has enough minerals
to make a starbase). You can detail a little ship to do this that couldn't
hope to beat a planet with D10! Strategically, this forces the enemy to
come to the rescue, and to claim all that cash. This can make minefields
put in his way a very useful strategic option.

It can also be used for besieging a starbase with heavy defenses but few
minerals. You put your fleet on pillage, with a couple of troop-laden
freighters. (This works unless starbases are allowed to ATT/NUK fascists in
orbit). The enemy can now attack only with his ships, which you can hopefully
handle. He will have quite a few turns to reinforce, so you have to plan this
well. If he has enough minerals, you may be forced to fight some of his
heavies -- he'll have plenty of money. If his struggles fail, once his
population is below a thousand clans or so, you should be able to land your
troops, and capture a starbase loaded with cash and supplies, although the
population will take a while to calm down. Easier said than done, but it is
one of the few ways a home planet starbase can actually be captured.
In a game in which population is more important than cash, hit-and-run
pillaging on a home planet may also have some limited success.

> Recently people have been referring to incidents where mondo carno
> warships have been destroyed by smaller ships like the Victorious.
> Does anyone have VCR files that show this happening?

It depends on what you mean with taking out big ships. It's quite easy for
Fascists (for example) to destroy an Instrumentality. I did it yesterday: two
Deth Speculas with light beams and Mark 8 Photons. The Instrumentality has
about 20 per cent damage. The last attacking ship was a Victorious. No more
baseship.

> I was initially depressed, but after the recent discussion about
> strategy vs powerful ships I'm hopeful that there is a way to kill
> such heavy enemy ships. Using a carrier myself (like the Valiant
> Wind) seems to be the most useful approach, but how long would a
> small carrier last against 10 torpedo tubes?

Do not use Valiant Wind. Victorious is much better. No baseship with only
three bays is no good in battle.

3) Fascists - Good in a bad position and excellent against fighter races
with all those cheap beam platforms. Pillage can get alot of goodies out
of those worthless amorphs, and the Deth Specula is one of the best
first-strike planet busters available, especially with good torps. The
Fascists will win by numbers and not with quality. Not the best race,
but not the worst race. Robots hate these guys cause they kill fighters
so fast and the Robots best fighter maker is the Golem.

>I had a ship in orbit with PILLAGE PLANET mission plus movement. Since
>special missions come before movement, the foreign planet must have been
>plundered. But I didn't receive a message. What happened?

Pillage planet definetly does not happen before movement. Sad thing for
the Fascists and what a relief to the other races.

>I thought I once heard someone mention pilliage un-owned planets, but I tried
>pilliaging an amourphous planet, and I didn't get any pilliaging message.
>Is it only possible to pilliage a planet that is owned by another player?

You cannot pillage a planet which is has not been colonialized. However,
you can pillage an amorphous planet if you drop a clan every month.

PILLAGE comes after movement, so does the Rebel GROUND ATTACK (sabotage).

You can PILLAGE planets owned by anyone, but there must be at least
1 clan of colonists. You can't PILLAGE an unowned planet.

Also (here's one for free) you will get unpredicatable results pillaging
Amorphous planets. Nominally you should kill 20% of the colonists and 5 clans
should get eaten. However, more colonists die in this situation than you
anticipate. Sometimes. For example, if you PILLAGE an Amorphous planet with 45
clans you would expect about 30 clans to remain. Psych. They are *ALL* killed.
Sometimes. Sometimes about 20 clans survive.

[And something that many people are confused about -\]
|
D7a Painmaker Class Cruiser - DOES NOT CLOAK </
D7 Coldpain Class Cruiser - CLOAKS


<Princess, PRINCESSS@DELPHI.COM>

The Fascist race is not that bad. I generally only use the Little Pest, D7
Coldpain, Deth Spec, Ill Wind & the Victorious Battle Ship. Stacking the
Little Pest on a starbase w/the Alcemey ships helps protect the starbase.
Also good for short towing..

The D7 is very good for travelling into enemy territory & destroying
frieghters. The Deth Spec is good for short distance damage. Sometimes
putting both D7 & Deth together, with the D7 transfering gas to the Deth. The
Ill Wind hull mass is pretty hight

Opps I meant to say Ill Wind or Vic fighting indivdually. Pillaging only
enemies that do not have cloaking ships, because the cloakers can come in &
take the supplies & money off the planet while your ship is sitting there
hoping for a battle<G>. Pillaging your own planets that are over populate
benefits you by way of more supplies & money. Be careful not to piss them
off too bad.

Princess


 

<John Bickers, JBICKERS@TEMPLAR.ACTRIX.GEN.NZ>

Quoted from <hG7SPfX.princesss@delphi.com> by Soraya Vaughn <princesss@delphi.com>:

> enemies that do not have cloaking ships, because the cloakers can come in &
> take the supplies & money off the planet while your ship is sitting there

But sometimes you don't care what the enemy does with the supplies
and money, if for example your goal is to capture a starbase.

> Princess
--
*** John Bickers, TAP. jbickers@templar.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** Count Templar, ELITE, Cobra Mk III (FM-287) ***


<James, ???>

Another advantage of the Fascist is their ability to rapidly colonize. This
works especially well if you can get some HYP capable ships from an ally.

I traded two Deth Speculas to the Rebels for 6 Falcons. I then filled the
Falcons with 120 clans each and jumped them to remote areas. There they
searched for planets with natives, dropped one clan, pilliaged, and the

resulting $ and supplies was enough to set up the planet pretty good. By
the time other players were at 40 or so planets, I was up to 95.

Long term I'm not sure how well this works. I used it to colonize a corner
close to me and basically speed up my own colonization. I also used it to
jump into remote areas and set up a colony of 6 planets that was later
destroyed, but survived long enough to build Coldpains that are currently
spying on enemy SB, a long distance from my own system. I also set up one
remote area that is now building war ships.

In any case, getting HYP ships and then using Pilliage gives the Fascists
an ability to spread that not all the other races have.

James.


<Robert Trifts, RTRIFTS@IDIRECT.COM>

rtrifts@idirect.com (Robert Trifts) wrote:

>I tend to colonize in the beginning of the game using 2 or three
>ships. The first ship is the scout, has low cargo with perhps 40 or so
>colonists on it and is only there to scout a planet, drop a colonist
>and move on. The following turn, a D7 and LDSF move in with the D7 set
>on pillage. If it was a particularly nice native planet, it will stay
>there for the next turn to transfer the credits over to the LDSF ,
>else it moves on to the next world.
>
>I send out the LDSF with 1000 colonists and 200 supplies. This ship is
>used to populate the planets discovered and pillaged by the other two
>armed ships. Be stingy on the supplies, and use the supplies and
>credits gained while pillaging and this will last quite a while -
>10-15 planets worth anyways.
>
>Works about just as well - if a little slower, with only one armed
>scout/pillager. The problem is that the pillaging ship has to hang
>around for the extra turn to transfer credits to the LDSF (can't beam

>them down to tthe unowned planet - but you CAN beam them over to the
>LDSF to be beamed down and used the following turn after you have
>taken the planet over again).
>
>You should consider towing a VERY poorly armed and outfitted D19b for
>popping over amorphous planets (Drive 1's and 7 xrays, and it doubles
>as an escort for anti-cloaker protection for the LDSF en route) .
>Amorphous worlds are just great finds now with D19b's. Instant 1000+
>supplies and usually above average minerals on the planet. At no cost
>to you (other than the el cheapo poorly outfitted D19b) you have
>supplies enough for an instant maxed out world with fairly decent
>planetary defense to boot. From rock to metropolis in two turns!
>Mighty nice in the early stages of the game!
>
>If you are using RacePlus, I would sugget colonizing using:
>
>1 D3 as lead scout
>1 D7 as Pillager
>1 LDSF as Space Seed
>1 D19b towed as Cloaker Protection/ Amorphous Killer
>
>Fuel Gathering, Pillaging, Glory Devices and capturing a decent ship

>with the D3 as you run in to the enemy (try to capture a loaded enemy
>LDSF and tow it the ssame turn you board) should allow this group to
>colonize a string of 15 planets that will stand the test of time in
>your game and which will become your core worlds as the game
>progresses. Don't underestimate decent planetary defenses in the first
>15 turns of the game. They can deter adventures by the enemy and allow
>you to solidify your planets with Ill Winds Deth Specs and Vics to
>defens agaisnt the serious threats as those develop later.
>
>Please also note that the new pillage command in combination with
>D19b's, NUK immunity and the new 15x attack factor of the Fascists
>make this mission truly an offensive threat. In a game I am hosting I
>have in fact just captured an enemy homeworld of 4 million colonists -
>Tech 10 starbase intact, using these tools - with a ground attack
>factor of only 8x.
>
>The Glory device is NOT to be underestimated - particularly when used

>in multiple numbers they are devastating to any race (Lizards and
>Crystals excepted). 4 of them will silmulataneously wipe out ALL but
>the biggest defending ships in orbit (and even those monsters are
>hurting BIG TIME), cut the population to about a quarter of its
>original size and decimate the def posts which allows you to bring
>your 15x ground attack factor to bear. ALL IN ONE TURN. Next turn you
>move in with a Super Transport and the following turn its all over. If
>you have been clever, he won't have any ships in orbit to trigger an
>attack, and seeing as you are immune to NUK, the starbase defenses are
>never activated. The marines beam down and you have a starbase temp 50
>world...
>
>Under 3.2x The Fascists are now a decently fearsome race. In
>combination with RacePlus, I happen to think they are perhaps one of
>the three strongest races, and are certainly my current favorite...
>
>
>.Robert
>
>rtrifts@idirect.com


<Matt Jovanis, AGENT@RAVEN.CYBERCOMM.NET>

I have prepared this over on Fascist ships and their uses for all you
practicers of fascism-

D7a Painmaker- Good for carrying small amounts of cargo, and large
amounts of megacredits at medium distances if you dont mind being seen.
Also great for harvesting amorphous natives in your own space.

Little Pest- The small escort ship. Good for escorting freighters and a
cheaply equiped one can be towed into battle to help wear down a starbase
and or pillage it

D7 Coldpain- good for long distance spying and long distance pillaging.
its large fuel tanks and cloaking are a definite plus.

Small Transport- Good for carrying megacredits, but not much else. Small
mass, small tanks, small cargo. You could escort a freighter, but a
little pest is better.

Ill Wind BattleCruiser- Part one of two in the fascist heavy hitters.
This is a big ship, greaet for killing a starbase or fighter carrier. It
has big tanks and big cargo, its drawback is a lack of torps.

D3 Thorn- good for close range, surprise attacks on smaller and medium
size ships. Cloaking and lots of torpedos adds to the plus.

D19b Nefarious- Good for killing natives and sacrificing in battle, but
impractical for much else.

Valiant Wind Carrier- the fascist carrier, need I say more?

Death Specula Frigate- Great ship. Cloaking and meduim-high armaments
make it great. its drawback is only 35 torpedos capacity and small fuel
tanks.

Saber Frigate- Great for attackign a starbase with. With a few x-rays it
can do that plus capture things like super transport freighters. not as
good as the D19B for sacrificing though

Victorious Battleship- this is part 2 in the heavy hitters. The biggest
ship for taking out big ships and planets. I wouldnt waste it on a
starbase though, it'd be better to use a Saber or Ill wind.

Well i hope you like it, and i encourage you to
me your feelings on it.

agent@raven.cybercomm.net (Agent MJJ)


<Matt Jovanis, AGENT@RAVEN.CYBERCOMM.NET>

What most people overlook in the fascists is teh glory device used in an
offensive ascpect. Having a poorly equiped d19 cruiser tagging along an
ill wind or victorious can be beneficial. With any ship approaching that
might be able to destroy the large ship, you just keep the fascists true
to their name by setting the code to pop and intercepting the vessel if
you know you can do it in that turn, and you have a mine hit on the ship.
This will help lower the shields and on a smaller ship it could even
disable some of its speed or weaponry, on something with a mass of 200 or
300 maybe. Good idea eh?


<Chris Oslie, COSLIE@PORTAL.COM>

"Doug Bittinger" <dougb2@i1.net> wrote:
>Mikko Saari <mikko.saari@solutions.fi> wrote:
>> Does anyone have good ideas for playing The Fascists?

>Well, of course this would depend on your playing style, the game scenario
>and who you are playing against. But, generally speaking, I see the
>Fascists strengths as 1) Cloaking ships, 2) High ground attack kill ratio,
>3) The Pillage mission code.
>

>Now, if you're a diplomat, you've chosen the wrong race. Otherwise, use
>these abilities to their fullest. Take the offensive, ground assault and
>pillage everything you can find. D7s are good for this. I like to send a
>pair of D7s once I've located an enemys' homeworld, one filled with
>colonists, another filled with torps. D7s with high tech beams are fairly
>sturdy lil buggers in a fight. A Deth Spec has more torp tubes, and would
>be better for providing cover if you expect to engage ships there, but can
>only carry 35 torps or clan.
>
> Anyhow, #1 is set to Pillage and does so upon arrival. You beam down 100
>clan for ground attack, and set #2 to lay a mine field. Usually this a
>single strike deal, cloak, swoop in, do as much damage as possible, cloak,
>run like hell. This can really wreck a planets' economy. If you're
>attacking a homeworld, plan on losing the entire task force to the SB, but
>not before creating a lot of havoc!
>

Fascist strength # 4, immunity to attack from planets. (unless the host has
turned it off, in which case I wouldn't play Fascist)

I don't understand why you would be worried about losing your ships to the
sbase, as long as you don't attack it it can't attack you. And if it can
attack you because of the host setting, it will attack you before you can
pillage it, so there is no point to your plan. (counting on him having a fcode
other than ATT or NUK is too risky IMO)

As for dropping clans on his HW; it's a waste of time. Even if the initial HW
pop is set to 2500 clans, the planet can still support about 100 def posts.
This gives a ground combat ratio of 6:1. 10000 clans support about 150 def
posts for a ratio of 8.5:1. So at most you'll kill 250 clans on his HW, at a
cost of 100 of your clans, the fuel it took to get them there, and the time
the ship was tied up when it could have been doing something more usefull.

I agree it is worth pillaging an enemy HW if you can find it. I don't see

that it has to be a suicide mission though. Maybe send 2 ships, a decently
armed D7, and another ship to cart away the money. Leave the d7 pillaging
there to force him to recall ships to deal with it, and send the other ship
away with your ill gotten gains. Or send a deth spec, and a D7 loaded with
spare torps. have the deth specula pillage, and the d7 cloak, keep
transferring the money to the d7, and torps to the deth specula if it gets
attacked. (you'd have to have winplan to make the transfers though)

Also, if you can, ally yourself with the Evil Empire. The probes are good for
hit and run pillaging, especially when you guided by dark sense, and Fascist
SSDs are mean because unlike the empire, you can have ships escort it without
being attacked by planets. In turn, trade the EE cash and cloakers.

The lost colonies aren't a bad ally either if you can get them mine sweeping
for you.

Sorry for the sermon, this post is a lot longer than I intended, and I should

mention my experience is confined to regular host, and fairly normal configs.

Chris Oslie coslie@portal.ca


<Rikkert Paul Braam, HPB@TAUW.NL>

Combining my own tactics and some tips from other players (special
thanks to Dave R.) I came to the following tactic for attacking medium
to large planets:

[1] scout the target planet with a ColdPain (or any other cloaker).
[2a] when there aren't any ships go to [3]
[2b] when there are any ships in orbit, send in a D19 or Saber and detonate
it (after moving away your ColdPain).
[3] bring in an Ill Wind with colonists (scrap any remaning enemy ships)
[4] start a pillage with your ColdPain and dump the colonists the next turn
[5] your opponent will now pay for the defences you are going to build

General Tips:
- send cloakers into your opponents territory. Check out all the planets you
arrive at (with Host 3.21 you won't have to decloak to 'explore' a planet).
- pillage his stronger planets (this will give you loads of money).
- as soon as you find a planet with a starbase stay there to check out his
shipbuilding. (use PlanMap or VPUtil to see exactly which ships he has in
orbit).
- use Ill Winds with colonists to take over his medium planets.
- don't use a Glory Device on Amorphous planets. Put an armed ship in
orbit and beam down one clan per turn while mission is set to Pillage!
This wil give you a lot of money and supplies. When there are only a few
Amorphous left use a Glory Device.
- if you need money very badly you might want to Pillage your homeworld.
- be very careful with Lizards and Feds (Lokis SUCK)
- watch out for ION Storms (causes cloakfail)
- don't worry about regular mine fields (odds are 0.5% of hitting a mine (on
the other hand, if you do hit one, your cloaker will probably decloak)).


Subject = Fascist Starbase Invasion 12/17/95

Poster = Matt Jovanis
Email = Agent@raven.cybercomm.net

I reccomend, in an attack on a starbase, to have 2 or 3 Ill Wind Battle
Cruisers or Victorious BatteShips, 1 or 2 D19 or Saber ships, a d7 Colpain
for mine laying, A death specula or two for a surprise attack, and a small
transport for transporting important combat items in an attack fleet. The
BattleCruisers can take out the bulk of the planets and ships. The d19 and
saber's can be towed along by the battlecruisers and can be used to detonate
overe the enemy's starbase. They can also be used in pillaging. the D7
Colpain can lay mines in enemy space as well as build torpedos, and cart
around extra fuel for other ships with smaller tanks. Sending these ships
in one bundle is easier, that way you can choose which ships get attacked
first.


<Roger Dempsey, RDEMPSEY@DIRECT.CA>

Use one of your warships when you are colonizing planets. When you
come to one with natives, drop 1 clan and set your mission to pillage.
Next turn you have alot of cash and supplies there, and now you only
need to drop however many colonists you want there. This way you do not
need to bother carrying cash and supplies around with you.


<David M. Erickson, ERICKSON@U.WASHINGTON.EDU>

The Fascists (Klingons) are an aggressive warrior race. The key to
building successful colonies with them is, of course, aggressiveness.
You should have no fear of using your the abilities as the Fascists.
These are: the Pillage Mission, ships equiped with the Glory-Device, and
being able to support 60 clans on frozen worlds. These will allow you
to rapidly carve out a glorious Empire!

First, you should construct a Large Deep Space Freighter. This ship
should follow, or in most cases, be escorted by a capital ship of
sufficient size to protect the freighter. (Deth Speculas are excellent
for this purpose.) The freighter should be loaded with 1200 clans.
Next, these ships should head out on as dense a string or cluster of
planets as possible. When they arrive at a world the freighter should
have the explore mission set to determine the climate and resources of
the world, and in so doing, the number of colonists to drop. Upon arrival
the player should complete a mineral/native survey of the planet (F4,
then F5). If the planet has natives, other than amorphous, it should drop
5 clans, and the capital ship should have its mission set to Pillage.
Next turn, the planet will have been pillaged, and a large amount of
supplies and megacredits will have been plundered. After this the
freighter should beam down 100 colonists to an average world, and 200
colonists onto a world with exceptional mineral resources. The freighter
should then beam up some of the supplies and megacredits created, sparing
enough to get the colony off to a good start. The ships then move on to
another planet and the colony is now self sufficient enough to continue
on its own. (Remeber to build a minimum number of Defense Posts to evade
detection.) Repeat this process in as many directions as you feel like
and you will soon have a sizeable, and well developed empire.

In the case of a Wandering Tribes scenario, it is important as the
Fascists, to find a temperate-warm planet. Temperature 50C is ideal.
Also, it is preferable for this planet to have natives. Lots of natives
with a good government is, of course, ideal. This is important for
making money on your 'adopted' homeworld. It is ideal for this planet
to have: a) ghipsoldals, bovinoids, insectoids, avians, etc (In that
order!), in an unregistered game; and for a registered game, any natives
that will generate lots of cash is all that is nessecary. All the
colonists on all the freighters should be dropped here. The colonists
should never need taxation, as that is what the natives are for. The
new colonists generated on this world should be used to grab nearby
planets to mine and tax in order to get a Starbase constructed as soon
as possible.

Amorphous worlds should NOT be excluded by the Fascists! These worlds
can be exploited in two ways: First, it is possible to put a capital
ship, with clans in cargo, to drop one clan and Pillage the planet. This
will generate large quantities of supplies and megacredits which can be
beamed aboard orbiting freighters. Second, by using a ship equiped with
a Glory Device (Do not spend a lot of resources building this ship!), and
setting its friendly-code to 'pop' upon arriving at the Amorphous world.
This will result in the loss of one cheap ship and the creation of a
number of supplies equal to the number of Amorphous natives divided by
1000. (So, 9 million amorphs will become 9000 supplies.) Supplies
generated by either of these missions can be sold as megacredits, or
converted to minerals by an alchemy ship. Why did Tim create amorphous
natives? To entertain the Fascists!

KaPlah!


<Cg, CG@PRIMENET.COM>

The Fascists are a tough race to play well but easily one of the most
fun races IMHO.

The Coldpain is one of your primary ships..these guys are TOUGH and can
take down any planet. Don't waste your time building Deth Speculas..they
are not in the same league with your Coldpains plus they have small tanks
and low mass. Use your CP's to selectively attack your enemies..wheather
its a pillage mission or a kill mission or a mining mission, you select
the time,place and target with the CP.Build these great ships in big
numbers..its one of the best cloakers in the game and with the pillage..
its extra nasty. :)


<Rikkert Paul Braam, HPB@TAUW.NL>

Ok, which ships to get from what race:

Privateers: pretty obvious, Meteors; they can cloak and have GAs, so you
can use these to do some deep strikes into enemy space (Pillage!) The
pleasure ships can get you a lot of money (sorry, can't remember the name).

Empire: also pretty obvious, Super Star Destroyers; Imperial Assault is
pretty neat. A good carrier (SSCruiser or SSCarrier) as you lack any. A
probe is pretty handy too.

Birds: any strong cloaker with good cargo capacity will do (pref. Resolute).

Rebels: Falcon! The Gemini is also a very special ship, no specialties, it's
just a good armoured transport (400 cargo, 4 beams, 1 bay).

Colonies: don't trade with those suckers! Scrap them!

Robots: Instrumentality, tech 6 mega-carrier *drool*

Feds: here's another cliche: Terraformers! Nebulas are 'nice' too.

That's about all I can think of, I'm not really that familiar with the
other races.

Most people will want to trade for your cloakers or Glory Devices. Be
very aware of who you trade with. Cloakers/Glory Devices are pretty strong
weapons in the hands of an able user.


<Alessio Chemeri, ERGOSPALMA@VTTVNET.TRIDENT.NETTUNO.IT>

The Idea is simple and is very very nasty:
exchange a ship with the cristal for a Onyx then go to clone it and
do a pack of five, then scout the planet of your enemy with cloacked
ships and when you found a fortress planet go in orbit with the onyx
and boil him! he can do nothing and you can pillage and boil him at
the same time! i hsve experimented this and is nice to se the
population of 8 million of colonist reduce very fast to less than
a million cause of the temperature.

Kahplah


<Matt Jovanis, AGENT@RAVEN.CYBERCOMM.COM>

In Fascist ship trading, hyperdrive ships are invaluable, escpecially
the falcon. You need ships like that. Fighters are always good to man the
Valiant Wind Carrier. Getting Lady Royales can give you income each turn,
which is good for building glory device ships. You needn't worry about the
income because it is outside of the starbase. Armored transports are always
good for the fascists. Things like Gemini's and Sagitarius's are good for
things like that. Also, dont forget about MCBR trading. The privateer
will gladly ally you because your glory device ships will be a thorn in his
side. But the most important of all are definetly the hyperdrives. They can
set up long distance starbases in short periods of time.

=======<1.5>==========================> The Privateers <===================


Meteors are for towing, and attacking far off planets. BR4's explore, and
BR5's steal ships in the early stages, Meteors steal them later, until both
are redundant. Build little pests to wear down carriers, and use one with tech
5 engines to tow another with tech 1 engines into battle. These take out 10 or
so fighters, and provided you follow up in the same turn with a solid capital
ship you can expect to trash most other newbies. (like me!) A meteor can tow a
large deep space freighter at warp 9, whilst a BR4 can't as the fuel tank is
too small.

Limitations.
A ship can perform only one mission at a time. This means that you can
choose to cloak, rob, tow, or intercept; but, for example, you can't
intercept a ship and arrive there cloaked.
The 3 cloakable and accelerated ships are low mass. This means that they
should not fight anything but scouts and freighters.
Even your "big" carrier is useless against anything with 8 or 10 beams
and 2 tubes.
Advantages.
Cloaking and the grav. accel. are obvious advantages.
The low mass of the accelerated ships, the extra speed itself, and the
fact that you use only half as much fuel/LY when you are towing with an
accelerated ship make these ships perfect for towing.
An MBR equipped with just x-rays is capable of doing everything except
planet raiding. This means that new SBs only have to be tech 10 in engines
(and even tech 7 is useful) and tech 5 in hulls. This means that productive
starbases are much cheaper for Privateers than for anybody else.
General strategy.
STAY OUT OF SIGHT
If the rest of the empires find out where you are early they might just
decide to eliminate a pest. A 100 LY radius mine field dropped near you
home world can put a crimp in your expansion.
Don't ignore the necessity to expand.
Your first 3 ships should probably be MBRs with x-rays and either 0 or 1
mark 4 torp. For these exploration ships warp 7 engines are probably good
enough. After that you will mostly want to build MBRs with warp 9 engines.
After the first 3 MBRs you should build ships in pairs of an MBR with good
engines and a large freighter with poor engines. Use these to develop
other SBs as quickly as possible. You may not be the first empire to get 2
SBs but you should be the first to 3 and should have 5 or 6 before anybody
else has 3.
Tactics.
Don't fight - ROB.
We will see occasions when a ship will be used as a Sacrificial Lamb (SL)
but other than that you should never fight anything even close to your size.
A cloaked, undamaged MBR is much more useful than the benefit from
eliminating an enemy's medium size capital ship.
Play the fuel game.
You will always need less fuel than they do. Strip unowned planets of fuel
with "gather" and whenever you can't steal a ship at least steal its fuel.
Steal ships. (Now we get down to the meat of the problem.)
The following tactics are all based on the problem that in order to steal a
ship's fuel, so that we can tow it to a SB, we MUST be at exactly the same
coordinates as the enemy ship. We can't use intercept to get there because
the turn order is steal - move - combat. If the enemy capital ship has
enemy set to Privateer (if he doesn't have it set to Privateer the first
time he will from then on), you will die at the end of movement and before
you get a chance to steal. You have to be cloaked when you arrive at the
same place as the enemy ship.
1) Wait at a planet (yours or unowned) from which you have removed the
fuel. If you are sure that you have more fuel capacity than he has
fuel then just set ROB SHIP and wait until the next turn to begin
towing him back to your SB. You can't do this at his planet because
he might transfer fuel up from the planet and that happens AFTER you
rob. Lo and behold, you end up with a very angry capital ship on your
hands, he has fuel, you are not cloaked, and you get blown away.
2) Use a sacrificial lamb (SL) at one of his planets to capture capital
ships. Get a cloaked ship to one of his planets where you know ships
to be. Pick the ship you want and tow it out to a waypoint where you
have one or more MBRs waiting. Make sure you pick a waypoint position
so that if one of his other ships is set to intercept the one you are
stealing, the other one won't be able to make it that far (also see
tactic #5.) This is called the SL gambit because the ship doing the
towing gets pasted at the end of movement (you haven't stolen the
enemy's fuel yet, that's what the other, cloaked MBRs are there to do.)
You can try to set it up so that your ship just runs out of fuel at
the end of the tow but this is a little dangerous. What happens if
the ship takes on cargo and is heavier than you thought?
3) Projecting a ship's course. (Your opponent has to be very
inexperienced for this to work.) If you see a ship moving toward a
planet that is more than 1 jump away, you can try to project where he
will be on his next jump if he continues to move at the same speed.
If you try to do this much, you will start to appreciate the
Pythagorean Theorem.
4) Bait and switch. Send a nice target, a full large freighter or
uncloaked captured capital ship, toward enemy space. Unfortunately,
for the enemy, it is accompanied by a couple of cloaked MBRs. Make
sure that the freighter is out of fuel at the end of each jump. That
way you don't loose it when some capital ship arrives with weapons
cocked.
5) The intercepted freighter gambit. If your enemy is "protecting" his
freighter by having a capital ship continually intercept it, you can
easily get both. Have a cloaked ship waiting at a planet when they
arrive. Tow the freighter with your ship but tow it in a known
direction and tow it further than the jump range of the enemy capital
ship. Have a second MBR waiting at the position where the capital
ship will end up. Example: Both freighter and capital ship have been
moving at warp 9. Tow the freighter 90LY north. Have the 2nd MBR
waiting, cloaked, 81 LY north. The capital ship will try to follow
the freighter but won't keep up. You capture the freighter with guns
(You DO put only x-rays or disruptors on your MBRs, don't you? After
all, MBRs are NEVER supposed to fight anything but freighters.) The
enemy capital ship is in deep space, at a known position, where it is
easy to ROB and then TOW.
6) The pirates nest. Privateers have real trouble defending a specific
planet against a large fleet. The best defense is that they shouldn't
know were the SB or rich planet is. Second, you can spread cheap
ships (they don't have to cloak) around your empire that always have
ROB set. These will rob enemy cloakers that are exploring your empire
(this can be disabled by the host in ver. 3.1). But assume the worst.
Your enemy knows where to do you damage and has a fleet on the way.
Don't fight back. Set up a pirates nest at a planet they are likely
to pass through. This is a collection of cheap BR4s with warp 5
engines and some MBRS. The BR4s wait at the planet until the fleet
arrives. Each one then tows a ship out to waiting MBRs, to deep space,
and maybe one to the SB (if the SB is capable of handling that one.)
This breaks up the fleet and gives you a chance to handle the ships
one at a time.

- P's can use 'packs' of MBRs more effectively than described above, for
example, to rob fuel before towing ships in the same turn, very often
preventing counterattack. Nevertheless, it is good to tow to a remote point
where other MBRs can ROB, if only to prevent a towing P-ship from being
captured in a counterattack.
- Note that P-ships can also drag alien ships to be destroyed by more powerful
allied ships. This is a good way to dismantle massive opposition in parts with
little risk.
- Note that Robbing proceeds from low ID to higher and act accordingly.
- As noted by D.P. above, you can tow ships to known locations, where you will
end up without fuel. But you should be careful about this, and use simulations
or an exact formula for fuel consumption (because there are program bugs).
- P's can 'intercept' alien ships which move predictably, shuttling to the
same location between worlds, or to locations which can be predicted exactly
by simulation. (In the first case, a cloaked P ship simply waits in deep space
to ambush.)
- MBR's can tow massive allied super-carriers with devastating effects. This
combination is virtually unstoppable if played correctly even if there are
large minefields (if there are several cheap MBRs as there usually are). The
super-ships should have their own Transwarp engines, though; and sometimes
they should tow the MBR's (for their 'air-lift' capabilities).
Just a few more things to note. With Mark IV (or higher) torps a MBR can
kill most planets easily and in version 3.11 you can disable torpedoes with a
friendly code. This means you can now put Mark IV torps on the MBR's and use
them to intercept freighters with out blowing them to itty-bity-bits and
capture planets that don't have a capital ship defending them.
If you start taking planets this way and will not be able to keep the planet
beam up all the fuel, money, AND YOUR ONE CLAN. If you beam up the clan when
your enemy's capital ship comes back seeking revenge you will deny him a VCR
and delay him a turn since he will now have to beam down colonists. Or if the
planet has a native race you can up the taxes to 100%, the native race will
riot for many turns.

The main problem with Privateer attacks is that they can rob ship's fuel and
thus immobilize them. The only available counterstrategy is movement and
superiority. Robbing occurs before movement and fighting. Therefore P ships
have to join your place in Space. This only works by Intercept mission (in
which case you can defeat them the round before) or by waiting for you at known
target points.
This means: Stop only on safe planets, and keep moving. Also traveling by
one-planet-hops is always a good idea, as long as you can make it to those
planets for certain.
The main disadvantage of the Privateers is their lack of heavy ships. This
means that, more than with other races, that time works for you. This means
also that you do suffer damage than usual if you lose those big ships to them.


<Rob Nielsen, NIELSEN@CENCOM.NET>

In article <415jt3$cn7@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, surf10ft@ix.netcom.com
says...
>
>The privateers have a pretty long list of ships to choose from; I was
>wondering has been your experience of pairing different ships together
>while pplaying the Privateer race..
>

>Is the Outrider Class scout good for anything?
>How about the Small transport?
>
>Both ships seem like a waist to me, but then again maybe you guys know
>something I don't when pair these ships with another.
>
>So what do you consider good groups of ships for the Privateers?
>
>BTW, "it's already clear to that it good to have packs of MBRs travel
>together cloak read to Rob. That way one can be sure to get all the
>fuel from a when robbing ship. "
>
>
The Priv's are without a doubt, my favorite race, and in my
opinion, the best race without a doubt. The Small Transport is next to
worthless. Don't make 'em, don't even think about 'em. Outriders I like
cause of their large fuel capacity for a ship of that size. They are
dirt cheap too. I arm them with X-ray's and hunt down freighters. (To
leave my treasured MBR's to deal with real threats.)
As for pairing ships, I don't really bother with it, except for
escorts for my freighters. (MBR) Otherwise, I keep pumping out the

MBR's. Oh, and a frequently forgotten ship is the Painmaker. Good mass,
good cargo, decently armed, 90MC! Good for Cannon Fodder in an all-out
war.

nielsen@cencom.net (Rob Nielsen)


<John Wesley, SURF10FT@IX.NETCOM.COM>

In <415nni$2no@news.cencom.net> nielsen@cencom.net (Rob Nielsen)
writes:
>
>In article <415jt3$cn7@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>, surf10ft@ix.netcom.com
>says...
>>
>>The privateers have a pretty long list of ships to choose from; I was
>>wondering has been your experience of pairing different ships
together while pplaying the Privateer race..

> Oh, and a frequently forgotten ship is the Painmaker. Good mass,
>good cargo, decently armed, 90MC! Good for Cannon Fodder in an>
all-out
>war.
>
As for pairing ships, I don't really bother with it, except for
>escorts for my freighters. (MBR) Otherwise, I keep pumping out the
>MBR's. Oh, and a frequently forgotten ship is the Painmaker. Good
mass,

>good cargo, decently armed, 90MC! Good for Cannon Fodder in an
all-out
>war.
>

yeh, That's what I'm looking at today. I notice the d7A Painmaker
Class Cruiser mass is 170, the second largest of all my ships, but it
doesn't have Aux. weapons :( I was thinking about pair it up with
another ship taken ccould absorb some Torps or fighters. MAybe with a
a Dwarfstar Class Transport ? I could send the D7A Pain towing a cloak
MBR or Dwarf Class transport. The Dwarfstar Class Transport doesn't
have have Aux. weapons either :( but it had 220 cargo holds.

BTW, when would anyone playing the Privateers build a D3 Throen Class
Destroyer when they acn build a MBR. The mass is the same but the d3
is lame.

I appreciate the input.

John

surf10ft@ix.netcom.com (John Wesly )



<Mark Wilmot, MWILMOT@GOL.COM>

surf10ft@ix.netcom.com (John Wesly ) wrote:

>Is the Outrider Class scout good for anything?
>How about the Small transport?

>Both ships seem like a waist to me, but then again maybe you guys know
>something I don't when pair these ships with another.

>So what do you consider good groups of ships for the Privateers?

>BTW, "it's already clear to that it good to have packs of MBRs travel
>together cloak read to Rob. That way one can be sure to get all the
>fuel from a when robbing ship. "

Aside from the MBR's, I like to build a few BR4's, and Dwarfstars.

The BR4's are great for hunting unarmed freighters, transporting cash,
and general scouting duties as the take less fuel to move. They also
make good sacrifical lambs when paired with your MBR wolfpacks.
They can also tow smaller ships - and even larger ship for shorter
distances - if need be, freeing up your MBR's for more important
duties elsewhere. Another very useful role is sweeping mines. As

they can carry 5 beams, I'll build a few with heavy phasers and use
them to clear mines for the MBR's to exploit.

Dwarfstars make good hidden bases from at which your other ships can
dump off captured cash, fuel, minerals. They also make excellent
minesweepers with their six beams. I also think of them as escape
pods for major bases as you can load your colonists, cash, fuel and
whatever else you want into them if the base in question is facing
imminent destruction. If you're using Raceplus, you can also RECREW
your ships from Dwarfstars instead of going back to a starbase.

For planetary defense, I sometimes build the Lady Royale as you can
generate cash with it each turn in addition to it's defense duties.
Over the course of a few turns it'll pay for itself easily.

The rest I generally don't bother with myself...

Mark
mwilmot@gol.com (Mark Wilmot)


<Brian Graham, GRAHAMB@PSAC.COM>

>Hey,
>
>Had a little question about the feasibility of using a BR4 to tow a fully
>loaded Large Deep Space Freighter. I'd also need to place some
>additional fuel in the LDSF to transfer to the BR4. Would the BR4s 80Kt
>tanks allow this or would I get nowhere fast? I'd like to know before I
>build a LDSF with Warp 1 engines. Greg.
>
>Gregory Ricketts
><ricketts@mill2.millcomm.com>

A BR4 tows a medium quite well. Larger ships require a meteor.

PS. IF you put warp 1 engines on a ship, you are committing to staying
in place without the tug. Use sparingly. Also, are you aware that you
can stress warp 5 engines to warp 8 at no more fuel burn than a warp 6
engine doing warp 8? I HIGHLY recommend you use your SPEED advantage to
its limit at the start of the game!

Brian
GrahamB@psac.com (Brian Graham)


<Chris Madarasz, MADMAN@ISLANDNET.COM>

> I am playing the Privateers for the first time, and would really appreciate
> some advice from veteran Privateers. General strategies and the mechanics of
> cloaking/robbing/towing would be especially useful.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Mark Snyder

The key to robbing is to remember the following sequence of events...

Rob
Move
Combat

IF you wait at a planet for a ship to drop by hoping to rob it, you will
probably get scrammed by the enemy. Ideally you should have 2 ships, 1
cloaked and 1 out of fuel at a planet. When an enemy warship comes into
the planets orbit, transfer 1 fuel from the cloaked ship to the

uncloaked ship, set the uncloaked ship mission to rob, and voila... one
robbed ship. Then you can tow it to a starbase for capture (or use the
capture beam if the option is set to on by the host )

If 2 battle ships arrive, do the same as above, but then tow one of the
offending ships away using the cloaked MBR ( I did mention that you
should use MBR's didn't I?). Tow it out as far as you can... and if you
want to be really tricky you can try to jettison your fuel so that you
end up with no fuel at the end of the move (works great with winplan).

Don't worry about losing an MBR to take out an enemy warship. They are
more valuable and as long as you equip the MBR's with only xrays and
maybe a Mark 4 torp, they are of lttle use to the enemy, while the 3x
race bonus on the xrays makes your machines very nice as capture
devices.

Next tip, try to get a copy of the Dreadlord Battle Manual. I don't
have the site adress, but it is available at most VGAP FTP sites.

Above all else NEVER LET THE ENEMY KNOW WHERE YOUR HOMEWORLD IS. Use
cloaking ships for movement at the start. Build MBR's with transwarps
and tow Little pests with Stardrives if you want to wear down a fighter
carrier ship or a planet. Tow the Ladyroyal if you feel like using it
to capture enemy ships (it doesn't cloak, but the fuel capacity is even
more than a gorbie I think)

chris madarasz <madman@islandnet.com>


 

<Rob Nielsen, NIELSEN@NS.CENCOM.NET>

If you are playing the Priv's well and stealing like you should,
chances are you'll get into a major all-out war. My defintion of an
all-out war is a no-holds-barred, all resources aimed at attack,
winner takes all bloodbath. (The economy killers) Here is my basic
strategy on this topic. Avoid it! If at all possible, spread out
your robbing of other people's stuff. Don't go for a single race,
that will guarantee a major war. The Priv's are geared for covert,
hit and run style tactics, and the Priv's will lose almost always in
a slugfest. If unavoidable, as soon as you are sure there's no turning
back, be totally aggressive. Stay away from huge ships, but
relentlessly capture and/or destroy everything remotley possible. If
you start losing gorund, fall back, let them have the territory, regroup.

You can make good ships a lot cheaper than the others and get them
around quicker. Look for enemy planets with no or little defenses.
Take em quicky. Cut off supply routes. Get them to where they have to
send freighters long distances. Then ROB em! If you pull most of this
off with success, your enemy will be left with a few powerhouse planets
and some large ships. Quickly offer peace. Unconditional surrender.

You keep everything captured and they get what they have now. If they
refuse (most likely) get a TON of MBR's near their strong worlds and
MINE MINE MINE!! Keep them from leaving thier worlds. That'll start
them talking. :)

Hope this helps all you budding
Privateer warmongers. :)

Rob Nielsen


<Michael Drewry, MDREWRY@EDGE.NET>

If you can see it...Steal it. Build Meteors with Transwarp and any
weopons (early). Then send them in groups of 3 or 4 to a race on the
other side of the galaxy. Then rob, rob, rob! Make sure that they are
far enough away from your home world that they will not want to divert
resources to come after you.

Later on, you will want to put nicer weopons in order to drop mine
fields and sweep them up...DON'T FIGHT!

Hint: Do not offend the Robots. One Cats-paw in the right place can
seriously damage your fleet of MBR's. Other cloaking races might
be trouble if you allow them to build up.

If a race can't cloak, they are a good source of capital ships.

If you can rob cloaked ships, build a Merlin and set the mission to Rob.
Cloakers will learn to leave you alone.


<Ryan Poss, RLPOSS@RAND.NIDLINK.COM>

I recently discovered an excellent tactic that can be used with any ship
against minefields, especially Webmines. The times it can be used are
much more often when you have Gravitonic accelerator ships.

The purpose of my tactic is to Minesweep without giving away your position
or even your identity. The key to it is that ships will sweep for mines
before movement (As far as I know it can happen after movement too.)

What you need is a planet within 162 LY of a planet that you know is safe.
If you are using a normal ship, this distance shrinks to 82 LY, for obvious
reasons. The essential thing is that you are using a cloaker, otherwise the
the advantage of anonymity is lost.

Okay, what you do is send your ship 1 LY into the enemy minefield, while
cloaked. Next turn set your waypoint to your sanctuary planet. Then change
your mission to Minesweep. Voila, next round you will wiped out some mines,
and be safely whisked away. Unless of course your haven planet, is not so
safe anymore.

For example if you are using a MBR with 4 Heavy Phasers you will have
clobbered thousands of mines. A BR4 with it's 5 guns would be great in
every minesweeping scenario except against Webmines. The 25% drain on fuel
could leave a BR4 rather low on fuel. Correct me if I'm wrong, even when
you use minesweep and the field shrinks away from you, you still lose fuel
don't you?

For those of you who've never played the Crystals, the Crystals aren't
notified of their mines being eliminated. They obviously can figure it out,
but you'll still leave them unaware of where you are.

Theoretically this tactic should work great against minefields protecting
the enemy's border. Mind me, I haven't used this in a real game, only in a
self-hosted, self-played game.

Good luck, send me comments. Us Privateer fans need to stick together,
since more often than not we are ganged up on. For our ways.


Elliot Thorum, ETHORUM@GA.CEU.EDU>

Are you fed up with minefields slowing (or halting) your raiding parties?
Consider the Br4 as an effective minesweeper. It's qualities are perfect
for this role. With cloaking device and gravitonic accelerator, you can
gain quick and easy access to an enemies minefield. Once there, the 5 beam
weapons sweep at a decent rate. I suggest sending Br4's out in packs. That
way the minefield will be swept away at a VERY high rate.This will infuriate
and worry your enemy. If you use seige type tactics and keep sweeping his
minefields, he will eventually run out of money/minerals to build mines.
And unless he likes living on a planet with no minerals, he will have to go
on a mineral run sometime. At this point, you've basically got him! Should
you lose your Br4's in this endeavour, it is no big loss. They are cheap
and simple to construct. Happy sweeping!


<Justo Guadalix De La Sen, O0445@SOBRINO.EUI.UPM.ES>

I use this strategy when my Star Base is under attack, you know Privs
have no good 'Stand and fight' ships, so I use to do the follow:

When you see a lot of BIG and BLOODY ships around your SB use your
Meteors to take all the fuel you can from the planet and cloak them
(If you are smart you should get all people you can before you are
attacking).

Made ships with a lot of fuel capacity (like that ship thar looks like
a spoon, I can't remember the name, it is tech. 1 very cheap put engines
and weapons of tech. 1), let them without fuel (so them can not be attack
when other race destroy your SB, when that happen you should send colonist
to the planet (so the other race can not take fuel from planet) and with
the cloaked Meteor put Fuel in the ships without fuel,use the Rob Ship
mission on them and very probably in the next turn the other race will
have several ships inoperated.

This is f**ked for the other race (well, you have also a SB less
but he is f**ked)

NOTE: If anybody read this, send a message if you can't understand this
so I will rewrite it more clearly.

I'm Cervantes, no Shakespeare, and for me this message is crystall
clear.


<Riku Jervensivu, FISHER@SCI.FI>

LADY ROYALE TRICK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
For Privateers:

The Lady royale class cruiser has very big fuel tanks (670 units).
It has 4 beamweapons and 1 torpedo tube too.

You can capture a cloaker which is planing attacks to your planets
with a Lady Royale class cruiser easily! Your enemies will learn this
very fast, so it would be good to catch a good cloaker at first time..
This doesn't work:
If cloakers primary enemy is set to privateer, then the ships decloacks and
attacks immediately and obviously kills the cruiser.But the idea is this:
your enemy is cloaked and comes to see if it's profitable to attack to the
planet.(It's not a good idea to attack with a single or a couple of
cloaker(s), if you have some big captured battleships waiting on the planets
orbit..) So, go on reading ;)

1. Build a lady royale with any weapons and engines which you want.
Mark 4 or Mark 8 torps would be good, because if there comes too many
ships for robbing (fuel capasity up to 669 units for robbing..) or
uncloaking ship.If that hapens, then you can try to defence the planet
by dropping a minefield.It's nice idea to put clans to the ship too,
check part 3 for more information.

2. Put the ship somewhere in a planet which probably can be attacked soon
or something.. (This part is not so important, you probably know where to
but the ship in your game, when you are playing ... )

3. Set ships mission to Rob Ship. The ship can make even megacredits to
you same time, if you put clans to the ship. Ofcourse so much that the
cargobay is full. (You probably have some torps too in the ship for
dropping a minefield) The cruiser will make every turn so many megacredits
that you have clans in the ship and you dont lose fuel! (You dont have to
move for money)

4. Leavy only 1 unit of fuel to the ship.

... The trick is this:

A cloaker comes to the planets orbit. It scans and sees, that there is only
one cruiser, and sets ships mission to kill (*** WARNING: If cloaked ships
attack is turned on, and he/she sets primary enemy to privateer, then your
cruiser will be attacked, but your planet will be missed.He/she can kill
your planet next turn! Anyway, he/she loses the surprise advantage.. ***)
and thinks that "hehe, the privs will die!", but when the next turn comes,
your enemy is surprised; his/her ship(s) are out of fuel and can't attack!
In best case you have caught a Dark wing, Resolute or Cold pain! You can
capture every cloaker in the game with this trick. Lady royales fuel tank is
so big, that you can take out of fuel even two full loaded Dark wing!
After robbing the cloaker, then you just use your tow capture and capture
the ship.And remember to fix it in your SB (Crew is only 135..).

So the trick works probably only against inexperienced players, but it helps
you with the defense problem a bit..

Sorry about bad english =)
By: Fisherman (Riku Jarvensivu), 24-10-1995
E-mail: fisher@sci.fi



<Ryan Poss, RLPOSS@RAND.NIDLINK.COM>

The first thing a Privateer should do once he has a fleet of MBRs or
BR4s is to scout out planets with Natives. Even if you can't colonize
them right away, they are still worth seeking out.

Being able to travel 162 LY a turn allows a Privateer to explore a much
greater area at the start of a game than anyone else.

Knowing where there are natives, is a very major information advantage.
The most important thing is that you will know which of your enemies
planets are the most strategically important for him. If you are
unfamiliar with the particular advantages certain native races give you I
would suggest reading up on it. Within your own sphere of influence you
will want to develop your planets that have natives more rapidly than
those without. For Privateers it is even more important that you not
waste time developing planets that have little to offer. It is better to
have a few good strong planets, than a whole bunch of strongly defended
yet useless colonies. This is because you don't want to have to defend
anymore planets than you need to. If you can't make enough money or mine
enough minerals from a planet, don't colonize! It'll just be one more
target for your enemies to take over by brute force.

You can bet that an enemy planet with natives will have many more ships
passing through than one without. This can potentially give you a few
"fat merchant" ships to rob from. Make sure a ship is large enough to
justify the risk of starting a war.

Whatever you do, don't allow your opponents to acquire as large a mineral
supply they would like. If they have fuel, money, and minerals in adequate
amounts they will be able to crush you with a top of the line fleet.

Hope this helps. It doesn't take a lot to make this look like a good
tip, since no one else had so far sent in a hint form for Privateer
economies.


<Dave Patterson, PATTD@SASKNET.SK.CA>

As any who has played the Privateers can tell you the secret is to
expand, expand, expand. Do not let the other races know where you are.
Build and utilized the MBR and Torp Boat, built with Level 10 engines,
Disruptors, and Level 5 Torps. Send these ships out in pairs to explore,
colonize, and infiltrate the enemy. When sitting at an enemy planet, this
pair of ships should be cloaked with primary enemy off. When an eney ship
arrives that you want, set the MBR to rob fuel of it, and the Torp Boat to
tow it away, ensuring that you set them both to the same way point. If by
some chance there is to many ships at the enemy base, set both ships to
laying mines around the enemy planet. IMPORTANT...stealth, speed, & secrecy
are your most important weapons. Avoid head to head confrontations at all
costs. If you can form an alliance with another race, espiecally one with
cloaking ships, you want to obtain one with large fuel capacity, to aid in
rob missions. Choosing the right ally can win ytou the game. If you happen
to capture an enemy ship with a large number of colonists, utilize this
ship to colonize one of his worlds. This avoids using your own ships, which
can be unknown, as well as turning his own weapons against him. Remember
that Robbing, Speed, Secrecy and TOW Capture are your best weapons.

For conventional players, playing the Privateers is indeed a challenge,
and once you play them, you will never take them for granted again.


<Mike T, MTABBACH@INDYUNIX.IUPUI.EDU>

As the Privateer, everyone wants to be your pal, or everyone wants to
squash you. A smart player who finds himself in close proximity to the
Privateer will either strike up a close alliance as soon as possible or
do everything he can to smash you before you've been able to build up
your empire.

As other strategists have mentioned, *you* are the problem in most games.
In my experience, the smartest players will seek a strong alliance with
you, in hopes of trading for your gravitronic accelerator technology and
sharing your piracy bounty. Be careful who you ally with; make sure
you're not dealing with a yahoo who only wants an MBR or three, and will
then either abandon you or turn on you like a snake. The following are
a few basic strategies for starting off the game:

1. STAY OUT OF SIGHT: Hey, you've got cloaking vessels, USE THEM!
The longer your neighbor is unaware that the Privateers are
in his backyard, the more time you'll have to get your empire
up and running without being stomped on by some hair-trigger
space cowboy who wants to rope him some Pie Rates. It also
decreases the likelihood that this neighbor will start lacing
his space with minefields to keep your sneaky thieving
bastards from robbing him blind.

2. You can benefit from a close alliance with just about any player.
As your fleet is warship and carrier weak, you want to hook up
with someone who can supply you with some muscle, especially
decent carriers. My personal favorite allies as the Privateers
are the Evil Empire, the CyBorg and the Birdmen.

3. Yes, it's fun to rob, and unless you master the ins and outs of
piracy you will be toast eventually. However, you must be *ready*
to rob. That is, you must be prepared for a full-scale war with
your victim, as most players herniate them-selves with anger after
they get robbed. Some will drop everything they are doing just to
smash the Privateers after one freighter gets filched. This means
you must have your mutual borders appropriately mined (several
small fields guarding the natural thoroughfares into your empire
rather than one big one), several cloaked ships waiting you rob or
tow incoming attack fleets at your frontier worlds and ade- quate
defenses at your important planets. After these defenses are in
place, make sure you have an adequate pirate fleet deployed, so
that you can rob many ships rather than just hitting a ship or two.
Once he's wise you, he'll start mining his space like a maniac,
which will slow you down con-siderably. Again, don't provoke a
neighbor until you are willing to defend yourself against a major
assault of starship muscle.

4. Don't bother to ally yourself with anyone who acts like he is doing
you a big favor. Anyone who allies with the Privateers has just
increased his chances of winning the game threefold. Find an ally
who understands your advantages (i.e., robbing, cloaking and speed)
and your weaknesses (weak warships, no cloning) and is willing to
pull his weight by aiding you with battlecraft and cloning of ships
you capture.

5. You may offer trade opportunities to all players (separately-don't
use a universal message) and see who offers the best deal. Always
ask for your potential trading partner's offer first, and then make
a counter-offer. Don't hesitate to offer alternate services, like
towing his warships into battle with MBRs or breaking up an enemy
attack fleet with towing BR4s or BR5s.

-Mike T.


<Johan Meijdam, JOHAN@PA.TWI.TUDELFT.NL>

A good neighbour is better than a far-away friend.

This Dutch proverb is especially important to the Privateers.

Try to have at least a firm non-agression pact with all neighbours
and let them look to their other border for potential targets to vent their
agression upon. This saves you, and they benefit from your assistance in
their battles and/or ship trades. If the grand-neighbour gets angry at you
for the ship theft, they will first have to fight themselves through your
neighbour's area. The neightbour can profit by launching a counter-attack
onto the planets and bases of your grand-neighbour, thus gaining territory.

Johan


<Richard Kempton, KEMPTON@RMPLC.CO.UK>

This is a very simple point, but very valuable (literally). After your
initial build of multiple MBRs, you will have perhaps a couple of
hundred MCs left. Rather than skip a build turn, build a Lady Royale
(250MC) with your free engines, and put any old beams on it. Next turn
you then have a ship that can earn 160MC a turn for life. Keep it at
your starbase, with 160 clans on board and mission set to Kill. Even
though it is a poor combat ship when it has low tech beams, it will kill
a few fighters that would otherwise hit your planet.

Obviously the economic bonus of 160MC/turn is very useful, and guess
what! 2 turns later you build another. I usually like to have 3 casinos
above my HW, and a tax rate that generates about 200MC/turn. This means
I can then produce an MBR *every* turn with Tech 8 engines. Early on this
makes for a devastating rate of development.


<Mike T, MTABBACH@INDYUNIX.IUPUI.EDU>

As far as ship trading goes the Privateers are at a major disadvantage:
Unlike all other races (with the exception of the Crystals), the
Privateers cannot clone. This means that any ship trade deal you strike
as a Privateer is only as valuable as the ships you trade and obtain.
However, your trading partner likely has the ability to clone an entire
fleet of whatever vessel you have given him. Translation: he doesn't
*need* you anymore, at least to obtain that ship class.

This means three things for the Privateers:

1. Do not trade casually with other races unless you are getting a
*great* deal. Be certain that you have a reasonably firm alliance
in place before you begin trading off your technology; it could come
back and bite you later.

2. Insist on trade deals that appear lopsided in your favor, at least on
the surface. What trading partners are most likely after are your
gravitronic accelerator (GA) ships, the BR4, BR5 and MBR. Trading
ship-for-ship is insane: you get one ship, he gets the capacity to
clone an armada. I would never trade one of the above ships for less
than three heavy warships, preferably carriers, with a nice compliment
of fighters already on board. Some players will refuse, sputter and
scream at you for being so un-reasonable. Let them moan and find a
trading partner who is wise enough to see the sense of such a deal.
Getting a lopsided trade is *not* ripping off your partner--it simply
takes into account the circumstances with which you as the Privateer
need to deal.

3. Your biggest advantages in the game are the SPEED and LOW FUEL
CONSUMPTION of your GA ships. YOU MUST STRIKE A VERY HARD BARGAIN FOR
THESE VESSELS--THEY ARE YOUR ACE IN THE HOLE! With regards to trading
your GA ships, consider the following (some of these points simply
reiterate 1 & 2 above):

A. See if you can get a good trade on the BR4 or BR5 -- hold on to your
MBR for yourself if possible.

B. Make sure you get heavy battleships, or preferably carriers, heavily
armed and loaded, for your GA ship.

C. NEVER trade GA ships, especially the MBR, with anyone you anticipate
needing to squash at any time in the future.

D. NEVER trade GA ships to anyone who has made any threats to you or
your allies, nor to anyone who has been shown to have a treacherous
streak; it is preferable that you trade GA technology only with
committed allies.

4. An alternative to trading GA technology is to offer towing services in
exchange for single warships; for instance, un-limited MBR tows
(earmark a specific ship for the service of this partner) in exchange
for a single heavy carrier or battleship.

The bottom line is: GA ships are arguably the most covetted technology
in the game. DON'T THROW IT AWAY. Once you trade it to one person, he
can not only make more, he can also trade it to others and you've lost
both a strategic *and* economic advantage.

WHAT SHIPS YOU SHOULD TRADE FOR:

The Privateer fleet is weak, from a military perspective. Any serious
armada you may develop will be created through trade and piracy. For this
reason, obtaining heavy warships is your priority, especially decent
carriers, which you should ask for pre-loaded with 20+ fighters
(especially those who receive free ones at their starbases). If you can't
build up a serious attack fleet, you'll be toast eventually.

Another type of ship you may be interested in obtaining: cloaking vessels
with big fuel tanks. Look to the Birdmen and Fascists for these gems.

-Mike T.

=======<1.7>=========================< The Cyborgs >=====================>



Well, as far as the Cyborgs go, their ships are garbage. The best
solution I have found is to build one or two good ships, and lots of B41s.
They cost almost nothing to make, and even if they are outarmed by anything
with torpedoes, you can literally saturate an area with them. They make
good cannonfodder to soften up large ships or planets too.
Fireclouds can't fight enemy ships. Sure they can take out an all beam ship,
but they will fail against much lighter ships. So what do you do when that
Cygnus is following you? Lay mines and stop at the far edge. Most of the
lightweight ships that can beat a Firecloud are in the <100 KT range. If your
opponent has his ship set to intercept he will be traveling through the full
diameter of the minefield. Even if he makes it, it isn't like you could have
survived. You can scoop the mines and move again next turn.
What if his ship is >100 KTs? Well, either hope he hits two mines or is
damaged enough to be taken out. Usually these ships don't beat the Firecloud
though, they totally annihilate it. So unless you can beat the ship fair and
square, your better off facing it with just beams and (hopefully) damaged than
with lots of torps you never get to fire.

You are quite lost (without altlist3). Use your money advantages from
assimilated Natives, and maximize your planet defenses. Secure your space with
mining, and if you absolutely must, use Fireclouds with good torps as
Transports.

> I'm playing a game where I'm the Borgs. The birdmen are sending
>their ships and mining the area around my starbase and planets. They are also
>tracking down my frieghters. Now I'v pleyed with the sim program, and basciall
>y I don't think I have a chance. Except perhaps for the firecloud ship.
>Any suggestions?

Lay your own mine fields, register its only 15 bucks, build some
cube ships, and start looking for another game because your probably
toast.
Well, if you can build any cubes, you might want to try a frontal assault.
Otherwise, it sounds like you're hosed. You may want to see if you can
become friendly with whoever is on your other border and see if they
will lend assistance. (Once you're fallen to the Birdmen, they may
be next).

Why don't you mine your own space, to discourage free movement of
cloakers. And use Fireclouds as freighters, at least temporarily,
or organize your freighters into escorted convoys? One advantage the
Borg have is that planets where natives were assimilated, with lots
of defence posts, are hard to take, so you needn't waste ships defending
those worlds...

Well, as far as the Cyborgs go, their ships are garbage. The best solution
I have found is to build one or two good ships, and lots of B41s. They cost
almost nothing to make, and even if they are outarmed by anything with
torpedoes, you can literally saturate an area with them. They make good
cannonfodder to soften up large ships or planets too.

>Hello... I'm currently playing my first game as the Cyborgs. It's very
>early in the game (< 10 turns), and I've found a humaniod world. I
>frantically shipped minerals to it (poor minerals on the planet), and it
>is now constructing a starbase. I've already seen empire and reel ships
>flying around, mostly freighters though. My question is, where should I go
>from here? (btw, I also have another planet, no natives tho) I think I
>should go find some mineral-rich worlds, and start some heavy duty
>shipping of minerals to that humanoid starbase, so I can make some tech 10
>hull ships. (cubes thias early in the game should be nice to have). What
>do ytou more experienced players think?

If you are unregister or the game is unregistered then you are doing well.
If you are registered then you wasted your minerals building a starbase
because you only need 3000MC to get from tech 6 hulls to tech 10 hulls.
You'll waste that much building the new starbase and getting some decent
torpedo and beam weapon tech on the new base.
The problem with the cyborgs is it takes huge amounts of minerals to build
the cube ships. The solution is to build an alchemy ship or two to make
supplies. Once you have assimilated several planets with large populations
you should be able to make lots of factories to keep the alchemy ships well
supplied.

>I have two worlds that have reached the eating supplies
>point (Cyborgs assmilating 8-9M natives). Two questions:
>Exactly what happens, do they eat all supplies produced on the
>planets? (That seems to be what is happening) or is there some
>formula for how much gets eaten?

They will eventually eat all of your supplies. There is no way to stop this
unless you can have someone kill off your population. A downfall of the Cyborg
race .. one of the few :-) They won't riot or anything .. unless you tax them
too much.
BTW you can tax them all you want ... they still grow. Even at 20-30%

>Whats the best way to get the pop. back under control? I have already asked
>my friendly Fascist neighbor to help but I haven't gotten a response as of yet.
Ask your friendly neighborhood lizard to crush your planet for you if the
defenses are low enough.

>If there are not enough supplies will the pop go down?

NO

>I really don't want to cause a riot since I'll lose all my factories and mines...

Your mines will still operate, unless you throw them into a riot. Basically,
on high native planets get the max mining you want out of it and don't worry
about the factories since they will eventually become useless.

>I have already set taxes to "Hate You" in hopes of stopping growth...

Forget it. Let them be happy or at least accept you as their leader.

>This is a problem that I frequently run into with the Borg- seems that
>I can pretty count on half my planets not producing any supplies after
>I've owned them for any length of time. The only solution seems to be
>to make friends with the Facists and get them to pillage your planets.

Look, when the population hits 7 mil set taxes at 25-40% (depending on
their original mood and the climate) and wait 'till they get "Very Angry".
Then set taxes to max green value. Sometimes they still grow, but it's
pretty slow.
If the planetary temp is 50 you can get up to about 10 mil. If you stop
a little over the limit you can pull off some colonists and dump them on
amorphs.
The real problem is when you assimilate 10 mil natives on a desert world (or
similar situations). The only cure I know is to start a riot.

>Now, if the Borg only had an even half-decient warship other than the cube,
>I'd be happy. The Fire Cloud makes a nice armed transport, but hardly counts
>as a warship. Even something like a Cygnus-class destroyer would be highly
>useful to them.

Yep, the fireclouds aren't that good. But, they do make descent escorts and
the quietus makes a good minelayer. It has good range, and withstand a meteor
impact with ~50% damage, and carries plenty of torps. Plus it is rather cheap.

>Does anyone ever make Annialation Cubes (the torpedo ones)? Or do
>Biocides (the carriers) seem like better deals?

A Biocide loaded with 100 fighters is more expensive then two Annihilations
with 100 torps each. (Translating MCr into supplies and using the merlin 3-1
ratio). Plus a small ship like a patriot will eat up 20 or so fighters, wheras
it takes 6 torps (including misses) to destroy.

>Question, when the Cyborg assimilate an entire native race, can they
>still recieve the "native race tech bonus" if they build a starbase there?
Only if you build the base while natives still live on the planet.

C>I enjoy playing the Borg , but they dont have many advantages, So
C>could someone tell me any good strategies for playing the Borg and how
C>to exactly dispose of specific other races, and do the Borg actually
C>take minerals from ships that they destroy?

Last question first, yes they do (if you free cargo holds in your ship).
As far as strategies, your only good ships are the cubes. The Firecloud
makes a decent armored transport. There's a HOST option (depending on the
version of HOST) that can allow/disallow ships with one engine to tow other
ships. If allowed, the B41 is a good tow ship -- more fuel than the Watcher
and 4 beams for minesweeping. In fact, the B41 is a good, cheap ship that you
can use for running money to your starbases and testing enemy defenses.

Your primary mission is probably going to be assimilating natives. On
worlds with good climates (temperate and tropical) you can amass the
largest populations. Why? You need to build factories. The most popular
strategy seems to be build factories, factories, factories. You need
Merlins bad to convert all those supplies into cubes. And neutronic
refinery ships to filling up those guzzlers. You'll run into overpopulation
problems, so keep in mind you need worlds to dump excess colonists on. Tax
'em at 100% and let 'em kill each other, you can take the taxes back to
your starbase to pay for all those fighters you need in your cubes. Use
Watchers or B41s with transwarp drives to tow around your Merlins and
Refinery ships -- you don't want to pay for that many transwarp drives in
those big ships. You'll need lots of super freighters to haul all those
supplies back to your starbases. Build a bunch of starbases, almost one at
every world where you've assimilated natives, by leap-frogging Merlins: Get
a Merlin to a world with a bunch of supplies, convert enough to build a
starbase, then convert enough to build another Merlin, move first Merlin on
to the next planet. Keep a Merlin in orbit at starbase worlds (and
eventually a Refinery ship too) to keep converting those supplies into the
minerals and fuel you need.

Ally yourself with someone else; a cloaking race is good. If you use a
cloaking ship as an exploratory probe, you can drop a few clans of
colonists on a planet with natives, which quickly turns into an outpost
world for you with lots of factories and defense posts. If you can get a
Merlin there...
Do not build any Iron Slaves. They're basically worthless and will lose
to almost every other ship in the game. If you can't build cubes yet and
feel you need a carrier, trade one (or more) of your ships for someone
else's carrier. If the HOST supports the HYP friendly code, you can trade
B200s to races that don't have a hyperwarp ship. (When using hyperwarp in a
B200 you have to be careful. It takes 50kt of neutronium to hyperwarp, then
you're left with only 30kt to move with, and depending on the engine tech,
you could be lost in space.)

>>Help! I'm stuck playing the dreaded Cyborg's -- I couldn't help it, and
>>am turning to all you Wheel-Chair Generals, Strataticians, and Tacticians

The Borg seem very powerful in the END game- they have a 10-bay, 10-beam
carrier second only to the Gorbie in size, and with the huge numbers of
colonists they assimlate, they will have enough cash so that filling them
with fighters isn't a problem, even without any fighter bonus. The problem
is surviving until the endgame, since they have no good ships below tech
level 10. The Firecloud is a nice armed transport, but not a warship. The
B222 is good for burning fighters off of a small carrier, but that's it.
The only real solution: ally with someone else! Preferably once of the
races who doesn't have a heavy carrier. It will be an uneven swap at first-
you don't have much to give them at first, but they can give you some decent
ships to protect yourself. About all you can promise your ally is to not attack
(anyone without a heavy carrier will appreciate not having to fight Biocides)
and a promise to give or lend them a few Biocides.

The Borg are very defensive- they can easily have many, many planets with
a starbase and a combinded defense of 600-700. On top of the 60 starbase
fighters, such a planet takes a huge battlefleet to destroy. You don't even
have to bother keeping ships in orbit. Wait for an enemy to attack, let
them expend most of their fleet defeating a starbase or two, then mop up
with a Biocide.

One thing that nobody's mentioned in either of these "How do I play the
Borg ?" threads is how bloody useful the B-41 really is. Yes, it is a very
useful tug (if one-engine towing is on), and a reasonable mine-sweeper and
cash convoy, but it is *also* the cheapest mobile anti-carrier ship in the
game. By that I mean that if you figure in the cost of its drive it is the
cheapest ship in MC per beam weapon. Only the Colonies' Little Joe comes
close.

So, all you Borg players, take the foregoing advice by all means
(particularly the bit about allying with the cloakers - that's a must
really, especially if it's the Privateers !), but do build LOTS of B-41s.
Especially if it's a game where the 500 ship limit might be reached - build
a B-41 every turn at every base if you're not building frieghters, alchemys
or cubes. Then you will have fleets of 20-30 of them with which to divest
Gorbies and Virgos of most of their fighters, which of course saves you
plenty of MC because you don't have to waste yours on them.

[on controlling the growth of the Borg (assimilation problems)]

When the population is two or three turns from maxing out (I had to eyeball
it, but someone actually posted a formula recently) boost taxes to 20%.
After two turns the population should be "very angry". Drop taxes to "The
colonists are undecided about you" and population will remain constant (or
change by only a few clans a turn). You don't really need to do this on
desert and arctic worlds though.

As for what to do with overpopulated woulds, I hate to say it, but
population reduction stops the second you lower taxes, even if they are
still rioting. That means you have to keep the taxes up, but try to do it
for as short as possible since the riots will go on for a long time if you
leave the taxes at 75% for more than four turns. Once they get down below
the planetary max drop taxes to zero until they are very angry. From there
it is usually rather easy to decide what to do.
Note that this applies equally well to other races, they just don't have
as much opportunity to use it.


<Mark Wilmot, MWILMOT@GOL.COM>

oalanen@finhost.fi (Olavi Alanen) wrote:

>I have just started my first game, and I am Cyborg.
>Could somebody tell me the best strategy with Cyborgs.

Well, presuming you're using one of the later versions of host so you
can hyperjump and chunnel, I'd recommend the following.

First build a few probes and Hyperjump ea of them out with about
8-10 colonists, 5-7 supplie and about 60 mc towards nearby clusters.
At each world survey the planet and if there are no natives drop 1
colonist and press on to the next world. If there are natives drop
everybody and hold up a turn. The following turn transfer money down
and build factories and wait. The next turn transfer up the newly
made supplies and fill-up with the assimilated colonist. Go on to the
next world. While this may seem like a rather slow way to initially
expand, you'll expand much quicker than the rest of the players in the
long run following this strategy. Futhermore some of these worlds

with natives will generate enough minerals and cash to create new
bases in a relatively short period of time. Build up the starbase
concentrating on hulls first so you can build a firecloud to chunnel
in better ships from your original HW to defend and further expansion
in the sector.

After your first half-a-dozen probes build a few Fireclouds and start
them off towards the clusters your probes have already scouted.
Should you not be able to build bases quickly these first Fireclouds
will be able to chunnel frieghters and later cubes up to defend your
perimeter created by the probes.

Of course depending on your neighbors and starting distances you may
have to modify your building program some. Generally, the Borg gets
stronger, the longer the game goes. Try to make alliances and
treaties with your immediate neighbors early on. You'd be surprised
how friendly people will be when you offer chunneling services! <g>
You're better off to keep the fireclouds under your control if

possible cause if you trade them away, you'll lose your monopoly, your
leverage and you alliances chunneling network will be kind of
fragemented and not nearly as flexible.

Good Luck!

Mark
mwilmot@gol.com (Mark Wilmot)


<Santiago Arteaga, ARTEAGA@CS.UMD.EDU>

In article <41ne7j$fv4@gol1.gol.com>, Mark Wilmot <mwilmot@gol.com> wrote:
>oalanen@finhost.fi (Olavi Alanen) wrote:
>
>>I have just started my first game, and I am Cyborg.
>>Could somebody tell me the best strategy with Cyborgs.

>Try to make alliances and
>treaties with your immediate neighbors early on. You'd be surprised
>how friendly people will be when you offer chunneling services! <g>

You can also buy ships.
When you assimilate a good planet, you can get _a_lot_ of money
from taxing the natives; remember, they will be assimilated as happy
colonists before they have time to grow, so there's no reason to keep
them happy. Tax them to the border of rioting.

So you have your little puny B200 probe in a isolated planet
near a hostile player. You can't defend yourself. What do you do?
Offer that player some unreasonable amount of money for some ship.
(You can transport 10,000 MC in a B200 probe) In one game I got Lokis
from both the Federation and the Lizards, and Lady Royales from both
Privateers and Colonies; the point is not the ship, but the trade. Not
only will this gain some time for you, but also most players will find
it hard to betray you after a good deal (good for them).
Also, remember that those players may not know where you come
from. If you are not going to hyperjump exactly on the planet or its
gravity well, do not use the optimal shortest jump, but some other
waypoint that might mislead a player in that area. Lie.

Santi
arteaga@cs.umd.edu (Santiago Arteaga)


<Geoff Curtis, GCURTIS@FOX.NSTN.CA>

>Hi,
>
>Can anyone tell me what the best ships are for the cyborg.
>I mean the cost of biocide and anihilation class carriers
>are very high. What about the quietus class or what exact roll
>do the destroyers have. And are the b41 of any use?
>
>The fireclouds are cool!<Smile>
>
>Please help me out on this?
>
>Boudewijn
>
The only Borg ships that *I* have found to be of value are:
B200 (early in the game to drop Borg all over the place)
(later in the game as observation posts)
Firecloud (Multi-purpose cargo/colonizing/minelaying/chunneling stuff)

(Actually, chunneling made the Firecloud as neat as a MBR)
B222 (For capturing and towing away enemy freighters, and for clearing
away enemy minefields - 7 Beams and cheap)
Biocide (For later in the game - turn 50 or so - for combat with anything
big, *really* clearing mines, intimidation, etc.)

The other ships *can* be useful but it depends on the context of the game.

Geoff
gcurtis@fox.nstn.ca (Geoff Curtis)


<David Ervin, DERVIN19@ITD.NET>

Dyland Desmarais wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm new to playing the Cyborg. I would galdly accept any tips or
> suggestions about playing this race.
>
> Thanx in advance
>
> Dyland Desmarais

Tip 1: Build several probes early and send them deep. Two full jumps if
possible. Have them start a minor colony or two with some natives. By the
time anyone finds them, they'll be another homeworld<g>.

Tip 2: Assuming a standard host, build several Fireclouds to form a
transport net to the borders (Each target point takes three shisp to be
effective), and concentrate on building Cubes.

Tip 3: Although it seems a waste, it is always nice to have a colony near
the border with lots of natives and a lousy atmosphere. Lots and lots of

colonists/soldiers (from assimilation) and taking them off can't hurt
you, since they are going to die anyway....

David Ervin <dervin19@idt.net>


In <4srkgi$ek5@madeline.INS.CWRU.Edu>, hw921@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Dyland
Desmarais) writes:
>
>Hi, I'm new to playing the Cyborg. I would galdly accept any tips or
>suggestions about playing this race.

1) Use your probes to do a scattegun trype of colonization of space. Start
sending probes out everywhere with colonists and supplies and drop 1
clan/supply on planets. This will get you going by assimiliating some
planets with natives.

2) Mine...mines...and MORE mines...! You are vulnerable to the depredations
of the cloaking races. As you advance, drop a hefty minefield to protect
your interests. Ususally the cash to do so isn't a problem.

3) Build Biocides for the endgame.....they are likely the most powerfull

ship in the game....Again, fighters shouldn't be a problem as by that time
you should have several large pop planets.

Overall, in terms of brute force, head-to-head combat, you can likely
clean any of the fighter or torp races. But watch out for the Privateers...
your ships are especially vulnerable to theft.

werewolf@net1a.io.org


<Mikel Lindsaar, MIKEL@BNS.COM.AU>

When I first started playing the borg, I thought that the "beam enemy
ship debris aboard" was a "nice" feature. ie. not really useful. But
with the "mkt" friendly code, that "nice" feature is promoted to a "nasty"
feature <BG> What I commonly do now (in later stages usually) is send
out my torpedo carrying ships with a few hundred megacredits (not enough
mind you to hurt my economy) on long enemy defence penetration missions.
The ships fly deep inside enemy territory beating up on freighters and
smaller ships. When the other ship is defeated and I get some minerals
(usually at least on or two of each mineral) I set my friendly code to
mkt and voila, a few torpedo replacements appear!

Obviously, this can only be used occasionally (as it get expensive when
sending lots of MC loaded ships out) But with the borgs ability to self
repair, and being able to beam up fuel from unowned or captured planets,
an Annihilation flying around with a few hundred (or even thousand) MC's
can stay away from supply lines indefinately.


<???, TLLOPIS@FLASH.NET>

Everyone knows that the borgs most useful ship is the Firecloud...

There are many varied tricks you can pull with them, so here they are..

1. Bait & Switch: Have a Firecloud escorting several juicy targets
(i.e. Freighters). If you notice any enemy activity (read incoming
ships), set your firecloud chunnel to a near by base (where you have
a firecloud + heavy fleet waiting) and set the Fleet firecloud to jump
out to where the freighters are. They'll have half shields, but if
your enemy whas expecting a firecloud and freighters and they find a
FireC and several cubes (or even one) he'll have a problem... If
they're pirates be sure to set PE to them, and mission to beam up
fuel (do this over a planet or you're pirate chow). Of course this
depends on the ability to switch out two fireclouds). Haven't tried
this one (or any others yet) but I know my strategy...

2. Attacking their flank (every time) :) : This is a late game tactic
and requires a large fleet. Start off with 3-5 fleets consisting of
two Anni.-Biocide pairs and a firecloud or two (these #'s are for a
very strong borg empire, change as nessacary). Then have another fleet
of 3-4 pairs and a firecloud. Send your main fleet and a smaller one
up the middle to have them rally their defenses towards there.
simultaneously have all other fleets move around their flanks, staying
as inconspicuous as possible (however don't pass up any easy targets)
When their main fleet arrives to intercept you, gauge its strength...
if its about even then chunnel out to another fleet's location and go
on a rampage through their undefended/lightly defended space and if
they counter attack your SPACe, Chunnel out to intercept them.

3. Long distance supply: when launching a fleet deep in enemy
territory, keep one of your HW's building up fuel, fighters and
other replacements. When your fleet is ready to resupply, chunnel
a replacement fleet out to them to replenish fuel, fighters, heavily
damaged ships and torps. At this time you can also collect any
minerals that your ships have collected from fighting and take them
back. Also take the opportunty to seed colonists on planets
and set a few probes wandering about (annoys your enemy).
This tactic will help to keep your fleet strong and healthy deep
behind enemy lines.

4. Sneak attack: basically #2 except your fleet sits at home while
you sneak a couple of ships deep into enemy territory. If you can,
ride in on a medium sized Ion storm to keep hidden and travel
faster (don't use a storm larger then 3 for Fireclouds) and it'll save
you fuel. IF you can throw a small offensive on their main front
and Chunnel your fleet in to attack their imperial Innards :)

remember that you can have one fleet defend enormous amounts of
space by keeping FireClouds at as many planets as you can. Instead
of having lots of little fleets you can afford to have 4 or 5
humungous ones... Always operate your Cubes in A/B (annihilation
/Biocide) pairs, and escort all fleets in transit with Fireclouds.

I think thats about it from me for now...

Pheonix


<Pierre van de Laar, PIERRE@MBFYS.KUN.NL>

 

Your opponent will use freighters to build up his economy. Determine
a spot which freighters often visit, e.g. 2x49 ly from a planet towards
his other planet. Move your probe such that you are able to HYPERjump to
that location.

When you expect that the freighter will be in this location the next
turn HYPERjump to that location with mission kill.

When the feighter did what you expected, you will either have shoot down
the freighter or captured it. If you have shoot it down you probably have
enough fuel to jump back. (Special Cyborg ability so this ONLY works for
Cyborgs) Otherwise you can use the freighter to go colonizeing.

At least you have disrupted the building of his economy and maybe you
even capture a new ship so it is certainly worth the try.


<J.P van Bolhuis, VBOLHUIS@ELEKTRON.ET.TUDELFT.NL>

If you have any planets with good temperature but no natives, don't
ignore them. Use a firecloud and a few (2 to 4) Super Transport Freighter
to improve their production and importance. Aim for at least a half
million colonists (preferably 1).

First, if fly a firecloud to the proper planet.

Second upload colonists from a assimilated world, preferably one with
maximum population (if necessary 200 sup 600MC). The clans should grow
back after 3 to 4 turns without taxation (then tax them to 70 happiness)

Third chunnel to the new world and empty your freighters.

Fourth: Let your anchor firecloud fly to a new lightly populated world
chunnel your freighters back to a clan rich planet and repeat the
procedure, be careful though do not strip a good planet of too much clans.

This is especially useful if you have got a lot of low population
planets around any of your starbases, it improves the basic production of
the area considerably. (SUPPLIES and tax)

It makes your planets pretty lizardproof, and above 100 dp (2550 clans)
a planet is able to kill low torp medium beam ships.

One slight catch: the chunneling fireclouds need to travel more than
100 LY or they won't chunnel


<Richard Nadolny, RICHARDN@OUTSIDE.COM>

One aspect these other articles have mentioned but not expanded on is
the Cyborg's ability to assimilate. Remember that winning can be
accomplished in two ways: by destroying an enemy, and by =denying= an enemy.

When you assimilate natives, you deny your enemies the ability to take
advantage of those natives. That means no starbase tech increase, no extra
mining or supplies, no increased tax base. You should drop at least one
clan on =any= world with natives (other than amorphous) to start
assimilating. The world may not be of any use to you, but you can make
sure it will be less useful to your enemy. If you can harvest from the
world, then build mines and factories and tax away. If you suspect the
world will be taken by your enemy, then build nothing, just eat up all
those natives.

Colonize indiscriminately -- you can afford to. Then build up the planets
or areas that best serve your long-term strategy.


<Hugh Robinson, PRA95HPR@SHEF.AC.UK>

Well, for the Cyborg, not difficult.

A couple of points, which you may not agree with.

1) NEVER trade a Fire Cloud. Think of the havoc that it can inflict on
you.... I'm sure you can imagine.....

2) But thats all right. There are many more that other races just drool
over. Probes for example are a Hyperdrive ship which are in short supply.
It is a little risky but only the Cyborg can use them to full effect.

3) Some of your BIG ships are highly sought after and here you can trade
happily. But what do you get in return. Surprise Surprise, You want,

1) Ships with Gravitonic Accelerators. The only worthwhile one is the
Meteor. This is a MUST. Use it to tow big ships, cheaply. Also
relatively stealthily. A very good investment.

2) Ships with Bioscanners. For the Cyborgs you need them. Probably a
Brunhilde or a Pawn.

3) Terra-formers are ultra useful.

4) Anything else, especially cloakers and OF COURSE a LOKI or TWO. Put
them at Chunnel entrances and exits along with warships to toast any
pesky cloakers.

Live long and Assimilate


<Richard Nadolny, RICHARDN@OUTSIDE.COM>

As with all players, you should build ships that support your long-term
strategy. Ships are built depending on the phase of the game and the
mission of the particular ship. With that said, I recommend:

Small DSF: Rarely built. Can be an early colonizer, but your money is
better spent on B200s.

B200 Class Probe: Primary colonizer. The Hyperjump capability allows you
to quickly expand your empire. Can also be used to transport money around
your far-flung empire. Build the best engines you can, you don't always
hyperjump. Keep one in the queue at each starbase to deny ship slots to
your enemies.

Watcher Class Scout: Don't build these, no strategic value. Other ships
are better suited.

Iron Slave Class Baseship: An excellent ship! One mine hit will destoy
it, but a ship with many uses. And you =will= need them. In the early
game, this fighter ship will easily capture enemy colonies. For the rest
of the game, you will need this ship as a transport, so build it with an
x-ray beam and a tech ten engine. With no NFC, the large fuel tank can
carry fuel to your battleships. And you can ferry fighters to your Biocides
at the same time. You can also carry money at the same time from rear areas
to those new starbases at forward planets.

B41 Explorer: Not a very useful ship, unless one-engine ships can tow.
Build Iron Slaves instead.

Medium DSF: An early colonizer and mineral transport.

B222 Destroyer: Not a very useful ship. Some build them for defense
against carriers because of the number of beams, but they'll only shoot
down 14 fighters. You're better off with a Quietus or Firecloud that
might get in a torp to the carrier's shields. Only build if you can afford
to, with low tech, as a defensive ship.

Quietus Class Cruiser: Your principal minelayer. Can also perform limited
minesweeping. The huge fuel tank lets this ship operate independently
without constant refueling stops. By dropping by your many colonies, this
ship can pick up cash and minerals, convert them to torps and keep going.
Use to lay layered minefields. Can also transport money and supplies
within your empire.

Large DSF: You'll need a lot of these to transport minerals to your
starbase worlds, which you should have a large number of. Also use to
transport more colonists to assimilating worlds to speed up the process,
or to jettison large amounts of minerals when faced with an enemy attack.

Firecloud Class Cruiser: This is not a warship, unless you're attacking
freighters or tech-one-hulled capital ships. It's primary purpose is to
use it's chunneling ability to quickly transport your fleet around. When
assimilating natives and developing starbases, this ship should be your
primary goal. Building a Firecloud at a starbase far removed from your
others gives you an instant means of moving fleets there for defense or
offense. Hide these ships, because an enemy will be justifiably paranoid
of their existance.

Biocide Class Carrier: The cubes are basically your only weapons. With
your huge tax base, you can churn these out, and the fighters you need to
fill them. But only if you survive to the mid-to-late game. Always carry
supplies, you will need to repair battle damage. Use Iron Slaves to
resupply them with fighters.

Super Transport Freighter: A very important ship. Your large populations
will produce large quantities of minerals and supplies, and this ship is
the best means of moving them around. Also can quickly colonize a world by
transplanting some of the myriad colonists you'll be growing/assimilating.

Neutronic Refinery Ship: Your cubes eat a lot of fuel, so you'll need
these ships to keep filling their tanks. With your populations, minerals
and supplies should be easy to come by. Build them with tech one, tow them
where you need them.

Merlin Class Alchemy Ship: Your huge populations (getting the idea already?)
generate shiploads of supplies, so Merlins will allow you to build all
those cubes you need. Their huge size also makes them an
often-underestimated defender.

Annihilation Class Battleship: Probably the most misspelled ship in the
game, and half of your cube power. While more expensive than the Biocide
because of the torp tubes, the Annihilation is important for taking out the
shields on those big enemy battleships so the Biocides can finish them off.
Also good against starbases for the same reason. Against other targets,
they are almost undefeatable. Their high tech requirements, though, make
them a mid-to-late game ship.

Fleets: Build fleets of cubes and keep a Firecloud with them or nearby.
If you have a web of Fireclouds deployed, you can move these fleets quickly
across the cluster. The strategic importance of bringing large amounts of
firepower to bear, where and when it is needed, cannot be emphasized enough.
Colonize far and wide, build starbases soon, build a Firecloud, and you
suddenly have a transport station.

=======<1.7>=========================> The Crystal People <===============


Your problem is money. I use a Ruby for colonizing, Opals at 1 colonist
per planet for scouting. Get an Avian or Bovinoid planet as a first step,
and a couple Opals for scouting then capture. All effort goes into the ruby
with tech 10 torps that is laying a web mine or four around your homeworld.
The idea is that by turn 4 or 5 it is 100LY across, and everyone in the
game has seen one of your ships. Use cloaking (captured) ships to
lay-and-run webs around nearby home worlds, but concentrate on 'mining'
your web minefield. Let them come to you mostly. Ideally you want to have
your minefield(s) totally enclosing all your planets, so that it is tricky
to attack you, and harder still to hold on to a captured planet. (oh, tech
2 torps are most economical if you have minerals but no money (1/2MC per
mine), tech 10 are cheapest if minerals are included as supplies per mine).

Key strategic points (some obvious, others not so):
- Lay numerous small fields as opposed to Huge ones. This helps deter mine
detection.
- Make use of the Opals defensively. 19 torps of tech 4 or above can produce
an effective web.
- You can only sweep the lowest ID mine field, so multiple mine fields of
differing types can be helpful. (defunct in later host.exes??)
- Emerald Class is best armed freighter in game. Build these in force.
- Crystal Thunder Carrier is actually a strong ship. Ftr capacity is it's
drawback.

The Ruby and Emerald Class ships are great armed cargo/invasion ships.
Sounds strange, but with 370/510 cargo with weapons you can do alot of damage
on the borders before the enemy races can set up defenses. Especially by
putting up web fields after you move in. In unregistered games, the Emerald
Class is one of the most powerful capital ships in the game (some fighter
ships with large mass can still take this out since you don't have the tech 10
torps).

Build small freighters to tow your captured ships. They have the smallest
mass and 1 Transwarp engine can pull a battleship 81 ly for about 50 tons of
fuel a turn.
I am currently waging war with the Rebels. The Emerald with 8 beams and 3
Photon 8 torpedoes can't be beat. The beams can hold off any fighter ship
(except the big one) while the torps do their damage. None of the other
Crystal ships can survive the Rebel Patriot Carrier (excluding the Diamond
Flame of course). Don't send any Topez ships after fighter ships as
cannonfodder. The crew is too small and the fighters will capture the ship!
You will have to destroy it later. A good use for the Topez is as a mine
sweeper. Put small engines and tech 10 beams on it and tow it with your
Emerald carrier killer with 8 low tech beams. If the enemy puts up minefields
to slow your progress, the 400 mines destroyed by the Topez make up for the
fuel cost to tow it.

Web mines are the best defense against cloaked enemies. I have acquired a
few cloaked ships coming up unsuspecting on web mine fields. I place 30ly
radius webs around some of my populated planets on the border with a web
tender ship near by. As soon as a ship is caught, I will keep increasing the
size of the web to prevent their leaving. Best tactic is to lay a small field
away from the planet with a large field around the planet. Their mine sweeps
will detect the closer field (version 3.0) and not the bigger. They either
bypass the first or get lucky and pass thru to be caught by the second.

Cloaked torpedo ships allow you to put web mines in enemy territory,
especially over their planets. With fuel usually in shortage, it can
significantly reduce their offense capabilities. Great method for catching
enemy ships that the player allocates just enough fuel to reach its
destination, only to find out it runs out of fuel before reaching its target
and is now in deep space defensless. Placed over their base planets this is a
real pain in their a*&. All ships coming, going and in orbit lose the 25 tons
of fuel. So they sweep it, but I figure sometimes I am causing him over 100
tons of fuel or more a turn.

Best advantage of web fields is to break up attack fleets. When an enemy
is sending a fleet stacked together in space, webs can cause the ships to
be caught in different spots in space and if the gap is big enough, it
makes for easy picking. Even small fields may prevent all of the attackers
from arriving at their destination, making the attack fleet not as dangerous.

Nice tactic for advancing visible ships is to not increase the size of your
web mine field, but to suddenly put an explosive mine field in the same place
(or vice versa). In version 3.0, the enemy can only sweep the lower mine id
field. The other field is invisible and unsweepable.

As you probably know, the strength of the crystals is there ability to lay
web mine fields. This strength appears to be completely negated in the most
recent versions of the host by the Colonies' ability to sweep 40 mines per
fighter and the Robots' ability to lay 4x [anti]-mines. While this is, in part,
true, the crystals are still formidable.

-- web mine fields can be overlapped to produce even greater fuel
draining?
-- the Crystal Thunder carrier is roughly on par with the Colonies'
Virgo battlestar?

PE> Indeed it seems so. I managed to wipe out a Biocide's fighter
PE> compliment with 1 Crystal Thundar, and kill it with a Diamond
PE> Flame. The second battle took ALOT of Tech 10 torps though!
PE>
PE> A tactic I am employing, but haven't gotten to battle test yet is the
PE> use of CT Carriers in tandem. I build 1 with Tech 10 engines, and the
PE> other with something cheap. I load them both with fuel, and use the first
PE> to tow the second around. I set the towee to Kill, and the enemy code of
PE> the tower to the appropriate race. This should be enough to take out most
PE> any opponent save a STOCK LOADED carrier race tech 10 ship (Rush, Biocide
PE> etc.)

Here is the general procedure I follow when starting a game with the
crystals:
1. Up the engine tech to 10.
2. If there are planets within 40ly send the default ships there to begin
colonization. If not, recycle the default ships or overdrive them to the
nearest planet with the mission set to COLONIZE.
3. Depending on the starting funds, build either a Large Freighter or
Medium Freighter with transwarp engines.
4. Alternately build opals and freighters while colonizing planets as
fast
as possible. When you find either a bovinoid or insectoid planet, divert
significant resources there to capitalize on the money making
capabilities of the natives.
5. Build opals with tech 5 [Mark IV] torps since they are the best [short
of tech 10 torps] in the mines/mc ratio. Mark 2's are the very best but
are very expensive mineral wise and not effective at all in battles. If
you have the $$ for Mark VIII torps, go for it.
6. The first time you catch sight of a potentially hostile race in the area,
start mining planets on the perimeter along with direct flight paths
between perimeter planets and core planets. The opals work *great* for
this. An opal with 16 mark IV torps lays a beautiful 20 ly mine field
that
will catch a cloaker 90% of the time. Once you snag a cloaker, you're
set. The one weakness of the crystals is their lack of information
gathering capability.

Some don'ts :
1. Don't show the location of your home world. [More later]
2. Don't piss off a cloaking race early in the game.
3. Don't build any Onyx or Sky Garnet's. I've never found a use
for them that couldn't be filled by the Emerald.
4. Don't try to take out a race by attacking them. Make them come to you.

When hostilities begin in earnest, create squadrons of 4 Opals w/Mark IV
photons and 1 Ruby Light Cruiser w/Mark IV or Mark VIII. This configuration
will allow you to quickly build complex minefields without continual trips to
a base. The Ruby has great fuel capacity and torp carrying capabilities. The
Opals are cheap and sip fuel lightly and can be refueled by the Ruby many
times. Also, the best method I've found is to station the Ruby in a central
location and, if there's no danger of it being swept, drop its entire load of
torps as mines. The Opals then can re-arm without approaching closer than the
permeter of the large mine field. When the mines are all laid, the Ruby can
sweep the remaining mines up. Note: mines are turned into whatever torp the
sweeper has. That is, if the Ruby has tech 10 torps, and lays a large field,
the Opals w/Mark IV's will sweep up Mark IV torps from that field.

Emeralds with Heavy Blasters and Mark VIII torps make *great* planet takers.
If you have the resources, the squadrons can become 4 Ruby's and an Emerald
but these resources can probably be better utilized elsewhere.

When confronted with large, fighter toting ships try this approach. A
Diamond Flame with x-ray lasers and Mark VIII torps. Even the nastiest ship
will shudder when met with 24 high energy fish headed its way. Also, don't
underestimate the power of the Crystal Thunder carrier. It's hampered by its
low cargo capacity but does well against even the toughest opponents. It's
also relatively cheap to build and should never have beams of > x-ray lasers
if it's going up against the large capital ships.
A Diamond / Thunder team will destroy a robotic golem 80% of the time and
critically wound it the rest of the time.
Try to beg, borrow or steal a cloaking, mine layer from one of the cloaking
races. In order of preference :
-- Meteor Class Blockade runner
-- BR4 Kaye Class Torpedo Boat [at least Mark IV torps]
-- Fearless Wing Cruiser
-- Lizard Class Cruiser
-- Deth Specula Class Frigate
any torp ship with cloaking capabilities will do but the Privateers' ships
really fit the bill due to their speed. The Meteor is fantastic since it can
effectively cloak *and* lay mines since it can always warp to a nearby planet
the same turn it lays the mines.
Making use of their ftr production is also nice. One thing that I've noted
(not positive on this) is that once a web field is laid in another races ID,
it doesn't seem to be able to be scooped up.
Cloak ships are necessary if you want to be offensive with the CP. Sending
one with high-tech torps into the area you plan on attacking, and laying a web
before would be quite effective. Just be sure to come in with a second wave
quickly to lay that alternate mine field as well.

Oh well - nothing better can happen to you than getting attacked by the
Privateers. They are ideal targets for your webs. Use caught cloaking ships to
mine your enemy's space.
Use the Emerald for endangered transports.

It was brought up that the Crystals don't start on their homeworld
with an optimum Climate (Desert) and that they should consider
building an Onyx Class Frigate as soon as possible. I tried this
out and it takes 35 turns before the Temperate-warm climate reaches
a Desert state once the Onyx has been built!!!! I believe this needs
to be changed so that the Crystals and the other unusual races (which
are they again?) all start out on a homeworld with the most
suitable climate. After all, it's only fair....

>Take a look at the latest host...Crystals now prefer very hot desert
>worlds, as do Siliconoids. Note that this implies player 7 now
>starts out the game with an unsuitable homeworld! Guess it'd better
>build an Onyx class ship as first priority.

True, Crystals are place and a planet that is "hostile". Hopefully this will
soon be corrected. [Crys can support 5million pop on a Temp-Warm (50) planet,
according to Tim Wisseman, Ed.]

>Again, look at the latest host...Bohemian Class, Eros Class, and Onyx class
>ships now do limited terraforming. Actually, does this really work? It would
>be nice to see a message reporting on terraforming progress...

So far, seems that terraforming is a slow process. But one worth the efforts
(especially if you're Crystal or Gorn). [Messages are sent, and multiple ships
will speed up the terraforming process, Ed.]

>Also, is there a way to determine the climate number (1-100) for your
>own planets? Exploration will now report this for uninhabited planets,
>but how can one tell when one's world has reached exactly 50 so the
>terraformer can move on?

Pay attention to messages, they will state the climate. Also, some "after-
market" utilities (vput199x in perticular) will allow you to learn more about
your planet(s) than just the game will.

Well, the crystal people are difficult to play with the new hosts when the
setting "mines destroy mines" All one has to do when caught in a web, if they
have torps, is to lay them. Immediatly you are released from the web mines,
and you can be on your way. And If you do not have a torp ship, just have
another ship with torps come close, and whammo all the web mines are destroyed
when you lay them. [Hopefully a future version of HOST will defeat this and
allow Web Mines to be free from the "mines kill mines" option.

I have no idea how you concluded that the Diamond Flames were bad ships. I
takes only 3 to 4 Diamond Flames to waste a Gorbie. The Diamond Flames are
much cheaper to produce than the Gorbies as well.

In my experimentation, I fairly consistently used a Diamond Flame to cause
5-20% damage on a Golem or a Biocide, and used a CT to take it out after that
damage. Only once has this combo not worked... even with x-rays as beam. Be
careful not to waste torps though.


<Richard Van Lingen, RCHRDVL@MTCNET.NET>

Jonathan Eerkes wrote:
> : I playing the crystals in a new Phost game and I have a few questions.
> : 1) If a clocked ship enters a web mine field, does it uncloak? Even
> : if it doesn't hit a mine?
>
> No. It will uncloak only if it hits a mine. Then depending on the
> size of the ship, it will also incur some damage (100 kt ship = about
> 20% damage, 400 kt ship, 3% damage). A siginifcant amount of fuel
> will be lost as well.
>
> I'm playing the birds right now and am currently being hammered by
> the crystals. Most of my ships ran out of fuel 2 turns after being
> in a web mine, ready to be picked up...
> : 2) Do you have any stratagies for a newbie crystal?
> You have the strongest defense of any player, but also a weaker offense.
> It will be extremly tough to kill you, but you will have a tough tim
> winning.
> Put as many resources into expansion as soon as possible, (LDSF's mostly)
> then BEGIN to get some capital ships out. Don't stop colonizing.

> Try to get some cloakers. If you get them, you can virtually wipe
> anyone out.
> If you web someones home world, they are in trouble.
> If you see ships headed towards you, wait until they are 1 turn away,
> then lay the minefield and stop them.
> Jonathan Eerkes
> (jnthnrks@cc.dordt.edu)The
Crystal Entity (of above game)
Scrounge,Steal,Borrow,buy a cloaker as soon as possible.

Sending Cloakers ahead to check out a planet will allow you to
select good targets. Another good tactic is to send a cloaker to a
planet and pull off ships to meet your Diamond Flames or other strong
ships.

The greatest ship in the cluster for transport is Emerald Class
Battlecruiser. Only 180 mass so fairly light,480 fuel to get anywhere
and a 510 cargo space. 8 beams and 3 torp tubes make it a nasty target
that can defeat alot of cloakers if attacked as well.

Opals with mark 8 torps can be made fairly cheaply and make a decent
sized web field either in places to stop an attack or to lead the attack.

Webbing someones home world is overrated. One ship with good beam weapons
can get rid of your mines. Better to web and capture incoming ships. Grab
the ship and sweep up your mines again

Make sure you have fuel carriers and Neutronic refineries to suppy your
newly captured ships as you donot receive the fuel that they lose. I had
over 20 captured cloakers that were sitting without fuel.

Also check out the Dreadlord Battle Manual which is full of useful stuff
on the Crystals.

Richard Van Lingen
rchrdvl@mtcnet.net


<Ken Williams, KWILLIAM@WINCOM.NET>

Web Mines Web Mines Web Mines Web Mines Web Mines

1. Will drain 25kt fuel from any enemy within minefield, if one of these
ships hits a mine it will come to complete stop, lose 50kt or 1/6 of
fuel, whichever is greater.

2. Default webmine sweeping range, 5ly!!! At the start of movement
minesweeping ship must be that close to sweep mines!! Drop webs
6ly ahead of offending fleet and they are introuble.

3. My understanding is that all ships (including cloaking) have the
same chance (mischance??) of hitting web mines. Default is 5%.
Therefore after 20ly enemy ship is pushing there luck, a 30-40ly
minefield should snag everyship.

4. Lots and lots of small minefields, once a web minefield is detected
count on enemy to sweep it! Five small minefields in a row is
much better than one big one. Majority of webmines from big one
will be swept but only mines from the first small one would be
swept.

5. Also we in the tournament must be aware of the fact that hitech
torps cost more and use higher percent of moly. Not the 1-1-1
minerals use in Host 3.2 games!!

Choose torp tech carefully. Might be advantageous to lay lots of
low tech minefields and sweep onto vessels with hi-tech torps.

The following was taken from a message from Mike Arrowood, to Ritaly
Rapaport in the Crystal Confederation message base on Sharenet BBS.

4 Opals with MK4's escorting a Ruby or Emerald with MK8's:

The Ruby lays out a field of x number of MK8's and the Opals scoop.
(they'll get 2.8 Mk4's per MK8) Repeat as trail of Webs is made.
( I may have let out a minor secret )

O O O O O O
R --------> R --------> R ----->
O O O O O O

The group of five lays out 4way web fields that are small and harder
to sweep. They increase 1/3rd of their coverage to 3 times the hit
potential. Reason for the Ruby/Emerald with Opal escorts. The
Ruby/Emerald has massive cargo and can lay out small amounts of mines
repeatedly being scooped by a ship that has only 19 holds. This allows
you to lay precise numbers and scoop precise numbers. This is used as
either defensive or offensive escort.

> And yes it is a combat vessel,

I prefer to use the Ruby as a minelayer/escort/tower/clan layer. The
Emerald is a far better combatant.

> MA>> Sky Garnet Class Destroyer (CP)

> Actually, this is totally USELESS. If you want to sweep, This ship is
limited but useful... I didn't say it was the best. But if you are
limited in your resources, it can make for a decent fallback. (not
great mind you)

> MA>> Emerald Class Battle Cruiser (CP)

> This is probobly the single best ship this race has Mike. I'm starting
> to think you may not have played the Crystals.

I've played them, I don't consider midsize warships to be great
combatants. In a short game like the tourney, these become extremely
powerful. In a long game, you should have the minerals and economy
built up enough that you can afford to load out your bases with Diamonds
and Thunders.

> MA>> Diamond Flame Class Battleship (CP)

> MA>> Moly is prohibitive. equalized by low Dur and Tri.

> Yes, but this is the best ship they have for actual
> combat, when they don't have 8000 megacredits Thunder.

Again, tie this with the statements above, the Diamond is a good ship.
With the high Moly/Low Dur+tri, it allows the crystals to produce with
their Merlins a single mineral type rather than having to balance it.

Your turn,

Bane

--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Storms ***Running Solo*** in Indianola, Ms. (57:916/40)

Hope this helps all the Tholians out there. It certainly makes me
want to play this interesting race again and I am only on my second
turn!!!!


<Jon Oberholzer, JOBERHER@MAPLESOFT.COM>

In the early part of the game, it is useful to gain alliances with a
couple of distant races, particularly those with hyperwarp ships.

Have them hyperwarp a ship to your area, have them give it to you (via
give ship command), and then hyperwarp it back up to his area.

Once back in his space, he can give you some mine layers and you can go
to work on his neighbours (after granting him a minefield alliance).

By doing this, you can help to knock players out early without risking
anything (you are webbing on the other side of the universe). You can do
it for "future considerations", money, hyperwarp ships etc. If your ally
doesn't live up to his end of the bargain, don't worry, because you still
have web mines scattered throughout his empire. Just drop the minefield
alliance and watch his economy grind to a halt.


<Alan Rookes, ARO@JET.UK>

It's okay to say web mine, web mine, web mine, but the fact is Crystals
need lots of ships to make use of them.

To get anywhere in the game your target should be to have more hulls
than just about anyone else, apart from perhaps the Privateer, who doesn't
need to build anything bigger than an MBR.

In the end game you're going to need Diamonds and Crystal Thunders in
pairs to take out anything other than your enemies tiddlers, and also
squadrons of Emeralds/Rubys/Opals to cast the webs out. So priority number
one is to get several half decent starbases on line - N.B. half decent -
you don't need tech level 10 on all your bases.

To start with you want a couple of Opals for scouting with adequate
drives - Transwarp if you've got lots of cash, but Quantum 7 will serve if
the local planets aren't too widely spaced. Don't worry too much about
being seen - most people don't want to come and attack the Crystal early in
the game.

Once you've spotted good planets build a couple of Large Deep Space
Freighters & move colonists off the home world to somewhere where they can
start collecting cash. You need lots of wonga, so don't let any of those
Avians get away undertaxed. Then shift the minerals & cash about to set up
secondary starbases - Ghipsoldal is obviously ideal, but Humanoid or
Siliconoid pay off in the long run as well - so get them on line as soon as
you can without interrupting homeworld shipbuilds.

About 4 turns in you should be able to start cranking Emeralds with Mk IV
torps out which will see off any early predators & also freight minerals
and colonists about. Secondary starbases can build Stardrive Rubys and Mk
IV torps until you can afford something better - tow them behind your
freighters and lay defensive webs + use their extra cargo capacity. Then
when your economy is really tuned up start building Diamonds using Humanoid
starbases, or Siliconoid with Mk VIII torps. Lastly you build Crystal
Thunders to follow the Diamonds - no point having them sitting around early
on when you can't afford fighters for them. And keep cranking the Emeralds,
Rubys, Opals and maybe the odd LDSF out at the lower tech bases.

Oh, and make sure you get that Merlin built before the 500 ship limit -
I've been caught out before & had lots of any mineral you like apart from
Moly - the lifeblood of the Crystal ship builder.

Sorry If I've gone on too long, but lots of ships really is the secret if
you're going to have any hope when the Biocides, Gorbies and Golems start
appearing. Then you can start producing Mk IV torps by the Emerald load,
and webmine, webmine, web mine !


<Alan Rookes, ARO@JET.UK>

It's obvious - what you really want is a cloaked torp ship, & MBRs are
the absolute tops.

Most people could use an Emerald or 2 in exchange, but if no one will
give you one, it's time to pick a fight with the Privateers or Lizards
(/Birdmen/Fascists) and watch them stroll blindly into the web mines.

=======<1.8>=========================> The Evil Empire <==================

My favorite strategy for playing the empire: build starbases indiscriminately.
You simply can't have too many starbases and there's not a bad place to put
one. You only have one torpedo capable ship, the rest are carriers, so you need
to make fighters like there's no tomorrow. 5 ships per turn isn't very much,
but if you've got 10 starbases, you're saving a bundle of money. In two turns,
you've paid off your starbase, and have improved that planets defenses markedly.
If you have enough minerals on the planet to build larger ships, that's the
icing on the cake. I imagine that many starbases would be helpful for the other
races as well, but for the Empire, they are necessary, especially if you're up
against a real fighter race.

Each starbase ought to have one H-Ross light carrier for transporting those
fighters to your front lines. Use the Superstar carrier and Superstar cruiser
as your working carriers. Gorbies are too big and too expensive to be everywhere
at once, but they're great for invasions. Superstar destroyers just don't have
enough fighter bays to be really effective. I wouldn't even put one up against
an Instrumentality unless I had 80 fighters in the destroyer.

Don't neglect your Superstar frigate, either. Build a fleet of those with
high tech torps for laying mines and taking out patriots and other ships which
might otherwise cost you several fighters in battle.

General strategies: build fuel dumps on strategic planets. Neutronic fuel
refineries and fuel carriers are a must for those deep, sustained invasions.
Heavy phasers, and lots of 'em. Sure, heavy blasters give you more bang for
the buck, but when it comes to sweeping mines, there's nothing to compare with
tech 10 beams.

Don't shy away from amorph planets just because they require a monthly
ritual sacrifice of 5 clans.

Build alchemy ships for your homeworld, but don't give 'em tech 10 engines
and beams. Tech one engines and beams will do nicely, since you don't
necessarily need to move them.

I heard one great bit of advice about alchemy ships... use them for ground
attack ships. They're just big, armed freighters, which means you can transport
lots of colonists for those ground-attack campaigns.

Some people will claim that if it doesn't have Transwarp drive, it's not
worth s***. Not so. Don't waste all your resources putting tech 10 hardware on
support ships. Build your ships for specific purposes... perhaps a few medium
freighters to transport goods within this star cluster. And build escorts that
the freighters might possibly tow along, thus obviating the need for Transwarp
engines on those escorts.

Oh, and don't waste your money trying to mine the Colonies heavily. By all
means mine around your planets so that they might at least lose the initiative
if they attack you, but don't mine your space indiscriminately.

You might have the impression that you can base your defense solely on
Fighters. Well, you can't. The Super Star Frigate is necessary for your
survival. It is your only mining ship, and it's is simultaneously THE ship to
hunt down intruders, since it is not too heavy. Also use it for escorts, the
smaller ships aren't worth the minerals to build, when it comes to battle.
Consider purchasing escorts from an ally.

> I am playing the Empire under the latest host version. The game is still in
> its early stages (around turn 15-16), but my neighbor is a computer player
> (Crystalline) who will almost certainly make a nuisance of itself. So far,
> I've been building RU25's and Super Star Frigates. The SSF is a decent ship,
> while the RU25 is very lightweight, and won't fare well in the Crystalline
> minefields. The Crystals have some powerful small ships, such as the Ruby,
> Sky Garnet, and Emerald. My Question: what would be a good strategy for
> dealing with the Crystal people before they get too powerful? I am tempted
> to build a couple Super Star Destroyers or Super Star Carriers and just...

[The following comments were made BEFORE the Imperial Assault]

*DO*NOT* build any Star Destroyers. These ships are worthless. They are far
too heavy, don't have enough fuel, don't have enough cargo, don't have enough
fighter bays. The only thing they're good for is to put 8 Heavy Phasers on and
minesweep. Instead, build Star Cruisers - cost more molybdenum, but far more
cargo & fuel, and especially an extra fighter bay. The Carriers are okay for
low-key action.

> ...launch a full scale invasion, but I hate to waste fighters against small
> ships with lots of beams. I know you can disable torps with a friendly
> code so as not to waste them. Can this be done with fighters? If anyone
> can offer some advice I'd appreciate it! (This is only my second game,
> and I didn't get to finish the first)

My suggestion: build several H-ross light carriers, fill them with fighters,
but leave your main carriers empty until you need the fighters, at which point
you transfer them from the LCs. Keep the LCs back somewhat from the main
action, so as not to lose your fighter reserve. Also, put Heavy Phasers on
all your Star Cruisers - great for clearing webs.

Since the Empire is pretty much *only* a fighter-based race, I've found that I
spend more time supplying my starbases with extra minerals so that they will
continuously produce fighters. The Empire ships are not worth much without a
nice complement of fighters (ie., you will never have too many fighters). I've
never wanted to not produce fighters and thus save minerals. I guess if that
ever came up, you could just put 60 fighters on the starbases that you want to
halt production. If they are full, they won't make more.

>I am pretty much a complete newbie at this game, and am in the middle
>of my first game. I am playing the Bird Men and am thinking of going
>into the Empires area. Can he spot my cloaked ships with his dark sense?
>It seems that if he can it completely negates my super spy mission but
>maybey I am wrong. I prefer response by email but if others will benefit
>please post as well. Thank you and keep up the great discussions.
Nope, the Dark Sense only tells him the cash and minerals on PLANETS (and
whether there's a starbase there).


<Jackal, JACKAL@KAIWAN.COM>

>I need some inputs,have started playing the Evil Empire and am on
>my first turn. I have one SB, 1 planet, 1 small freighter and
>1 RU fighter. In the next 10 turns what should I do next in order
>of importance.

Well, I don't profess to be the best Empire player, but here is a
workable stragegy I'd suggest. First, seeing you only have 1 planet,
I'd put colonists on each ship (and some money and supplies on the
freighter) and send them to the nearest planets--if feasible, kick up
the warp to 8 if you can save a turn or two and still have enough fuel
to return. Meanwhile, sell your remaining planet supplies and put the
money into engine tech, as you want the best possible as early as
possible.

When you send the ships out (assuming no visible neighbors), use the
exploration mission to see if the planets you visit are worth
development; you should drop at least 1 colonist anyway to claim the
planet, but if it's a good climate, drop a number of colonists as well

as some supples and money so you can start building factories, as you
will make more money this way early on. When your ships start to
return home, set mission to dark sense to see if you can spot any
others nearby.

Keep putting money into engine tech until you have 10 (or 6 for
unregistered), then build a couple of small freighters (for basic
colonizing and money runs), and a couple of probes (for colonizing
farther out, and dark sensing the outer territory, and later mine
sweep missions to spot mines). Leave torp and beam tech alone for a
little while, just expand until you find a good mineral planet, then
kick your hull tech to 6, build a large freighter and dump the
necessary minerals from your homeword so you can build a starbase.
Meanwhile on the other planets, keep putting supplies/money into
factory development--even mineral-poor planets can have a good number
of factories for solid income.

After building the starbase, and sending your freighter to supplying

the planet for the next one, then build up your beam tech to 10, and
build a destroyer for protection/patrolling/butt kicking. Once you've
built a few destroyers (or when you see enough enemies), build up torp
tech and build a mine-laying ship (the frigate I believe). A tanker
would be good also once you've found a planet with lots of neutronium
and a good (Concentrated or Large Masses) extraction rate. You can
leave the hull tech at a low level for quite a while and put resources
into starbases until you have a few of them, and have some excess
cash. Then kick up the hull tech for cruisers and gorbies. Use
cruiser packs for hit-and-run on most planets (very efficient), use
the gorbie for busting homeworlds and other starbase-posessing
planets.

Also, once you get the ball rolling, scoop up the free fighters from
starbases (don't let them get full and go to waste!) to outfit your
better capital ships. Don't spend money for fighters for a while--put

them instead into ships and starbases. And if your game has addon
stuff for the Empire (Imperial assault, Gorbie Gravity Well, Gorbie
ship captures, etc.) use them as needed.

jackal
jackal@kaiwan.com (jackal)


<Robert Dejournett, HERMES@RTD.COM>

>Hello All---->
>
>got against them. I will (try to) argue every point. (If I can't, I'll
>bullshit).
>

The Empire, IMO tend to do well. However they are a difficult race to
master.

PROS: Cool, cheap, fighter ships that do more than throw spitwads.
Gorbie. (nuf said).
Imperial Assault
Dark Sense
HYP probes

CONS: Their 1 torp ship is pretty lame (puny for it's class, small cargo hold,
expensive.
Only make fighters at star bases. I have a real hard time getting
productive bases, because each turn you lose 10 fighters worth of
minerals, plus you have to have more minerals to make ships.
Moly is a big problem.
Can't make fighters where you want to.
Fighters are real limited, especially in early game.
Gorbie is a fuel pig.

But it depends on how many minerals are available in a game. if there are
a limited amount, you will have real trouble making enough fighters + ships.
If not, then you should do okay.

-Rob
hermes@rtd.com (Robert Dejournett)


<???, DUNNC@ADSNET.NET>

Everyone playing the Evil Empire has to know that the Imperial Assualt
mission that comes with the SuperStar Destroyer is an invaluable asset
for the race. For those who don't know, the player can send a SSD to a
enemy planet, drop down 10 colonists and take the planet intact. It
doesn't matter how many enemy colonists are on the planet, or if the
planet has a massive starbase with defenses, or even if the planet has its
FC code set to ATT/NUK. The only thing that can hamper the Imperial
Assault would be if the ship was damaged, in which case it would not be
able to complete its mission.

Now, with this major force at the finger tips of all those Evil Empire
players, they should be unstoppable, right? Wrong! I have played in
games where the EE player sent out his SSDs in single file, one after
another,to take on enemy planets all by themselves. This is very unwise.
What happened to this player was that his inteneded target happened to be
allied with the Birds, who had cloakers nearby. The Evil Empire player
lost all three of his SSDs-one was destroyed, one was captured, and
another one was damaged and consequently made impident. The moral of
this story is that, while the SSD is a great ship, it is only great
because of its Imperial Assault mission. Without its mission, I wouldn't
put it up against much, even if it was loaded up with 80 fighters. Save
these ships for their mission--that is what makes them invaluable.

Okay--now how do you make them effective? Many options are, of course,
available, depending on the situation. In a game I played in as the Evil
Empire, I found myself up against a pissed off Robotic player. I found
that I needed to attack quickly, before I was attacked, and that a
two-pronged attack would be best for confusion making, and surprise. In
both battle groups, I placed two Grobies(both with at least 125 fighters),
a SuperStar Carrier (filled to the hilt with fighters), and two SuperStar
Destroyers. With the Destroyers, I placed 40 colonists on each, then
filled the other space with token fighters.

The logic behind this battle group was that the Gorbies would take out
minefields/big capitol ships (as long as there weren't too many), the
SSCarrier would help support the Gorbies, and the two Destoryers ended up
taking the rear guard. When I flushed out a Golem and a couple
Instrumentalities, my Destroyers broke from the group and headed in two
different directions, shooting for two different Robot planets, took them
both in the next turn (one of which had a starbase). Taking the Robotic
planets and Starbase made the Robotic player decide to break up his Golems
from his Instru. escort, making it even easier for the Gorbies to pick
them off.

Sure, this is a scenerio that really worked well for me, but the basics
of the plan made the SSD pay off. Keep the SuperStar Destroyers in the
rear of your battle group, and when the battle cry is let out, have them
break off and shoot to seperate planets to perform their mission. It is
very advisable that if you are going to use SSDs, use the "Buddy System":
Never send them alone.


<Hanbury Hampden-Turner, HANBURY.HAMPDEN-TURNER@BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK>

When making up a battle group that includes Gorbies, use the friendly
codes to make sure the Gorby fights first. Convential wisdom, of putting
a small torp ship first, only works well against other torp races. The
Gorbie can take out anything small without damage, and anything big enough
to damage it severely would probably toast any other ship you could throw
at it.


<Hanbury Hampden-Turner, HANBURY.HAMPDEN-TURNER@BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK>

SSDs ARE bad at fighting. Sending one out unescorted is a bad idea.
But at the beginning of the game, it can prove hilarious. If you get
a quick start, then try sending one out to conquor a nearby neighbour.
Given heavy blasters or better (Don't give it less) and about 30-40
fighters it can take out just about anything - most people won't have
built a bigger ship yet. Don't forget to fill it with colonists - so
it can do mutiple imperial assualts.

You probably won't beat him, but against a slow starting neighbour who
doesn't expect early trouble from the EMPIRE of all people, it can wreck
enough damage to make him weaker later on.

Then conquor him :)


<Justin Harrell, JKH5818@TAM2000.TAMU.EDU>

O.K. Empire fans, here's the deal. You are stuck with a race that has
the most powerful ship in the game, but unfortunately, doesn't have
excellent support ships. Let's face it folks, Empire fuel tanks just
aren't that great. Here's my suggestion:

1) At the beginning of the game, STAY AWAY FROM COMBAT. This allows you
time to create a substantial fleet. In the meantime build freighters
to ship in minerals and supplies to your homeworld.

2) Convince the host to give you 10 fighters per turn. Five is just not
enough. The Empire cannot build fighters in space, and is behind the
other "fighter races" in this aspect. The Colonies and Rebels can build
40 fighters per turn with ONE ship (Gemini). Beef up the fighters.

3) Colonize quickly and build as many starbases as you can! Starbases=
fighters.

4) Build crappy H-Ross class Light carriers to expand starbase storage
from 60 to 180.

5) In the meantime, you need to be getting as much money on your homeworld
as possible. Your ships are expensive!

6) Unless you are using the new race advantages, and have the Imperial
assault - NEVER EVER BUILD SUPER STAR DESTROYERS. They suck! Instead,
shell out a little bit more money for a Super Star Cruiser. One more
bay, A LOT more range, and bigger mass.

7) Ah, yes, our good friend the Gorbie. Build as many of them as you can.
These are the workhorse of your fleet. Sell them to your allies as well
if it helps your alliance any.(In my game, my ally is the Federation. A
Gorbie with Fed tech bonus!) Quickly dispatch your Gorbies in fleets to
crush homeworlds.

8) Finally, remember not to spread yourself thin, or take on a race you
can't handle. Sit back for the beginning and whip butt at the end!

Justin "The Emperor" Harrell


<???, DUNNC@ADSNET.NET>

So, you just started out as the Evil Empire, and you want to know how
you should go about in your colonization process. You already know that
you are going to want to grab as many planets as you can to implement
your unavoidable take-over of the whole Cluster. But,lets say your
homeworld is sitting out there somewhat alone, with no immediate planets
around--or you have an enemy bearing down on you, and you don't have time
to screw around. Maybe you don't have the resources to drop large
numbers of colonists and supplies to drop off at every planet you come
across.

My rule-of-thumb is usually what every race should do at the start--send
a scout (in our case, a Probe or a SSD-depending on space) out to every
planet around you, with a frieghtor following to dump off colonists on
planets you deem worthy at the onset--in other words, planets that pay off
QUICK. You will need money--hit those natives that give you the extra
supplies and bucks. You need minerals (usually, in most games gas isn't a
problem, but you have to keep it in mind) for your Offensive/Defensive
initiall fleet, so drop 'em off at planets that have large deposits of
minerals (no matter what one kind of mineral is has in excess). Another
large frieghtor can hit these planets, one after another, dropping off
large numbers of colonists, at the same time picking up the minerals you
need to keep building the 'ole fleet. Now to explain the title of this
little ditty---- "In Search of Valhalla!"

You, as the Evil Emperor, have a starbase ability to build 5 free fighters
every turn. Blatant logic then leads to the conclusion that for the Empire
to survive, it must take advantage of its advantages. In this case, the
more BASES you have the more FIGHTERS you will have. All the races need
bases--they improve defenses, some new bases might have native life that
gives tech, etc.. But the Evil Empire, to have a sufficient fleet, NEEDS
starbases. Our esteemed Empire has many impressive carrier ships, BUT they
don't mean diddly if you don't have the cargo to put into them. This is
why my colleague suggested that the Evil Empire player should make friends
with the Colonists, quickly. But, if that isn't in your stars, or in any
case, you will need as many starbases as you can make. So, if your scouts
come across a pretty well balanced planet--good showing of minerals, maybe
a added bonus of native life for tech, then make a note that this is where
your next base will be. AND don't hesitate to start sending money, or
minerals, or whatever the planet needs to make a base. These bases pay off
BIG TIME. And they are what you should keep in mind when looking for
planets to colonize.

Good Hunting!


<Stonig, STONIG@IX.NETCOM.COM>

One of the Empire's strengths is it's large collection of non-"Big Ship"
large carriers which can shrug off several mine hits. However, it's hard
to get enough fighters to give each of your ships a decent fighter
complement by waiting for your SBs to make them at 5 a turn. So to
finance any long-term, major offensive action is next to impossible for
the Empire player simply because he cannot pay for all the fighters his
armada needs to remain strong through many battles.

The solution to this is to ally with a true "fighter race"- the Robots,
the Rebels, or the Colonies. Ideally, you want to ally with the Colonies,
as they have the COBOL which can supply fuel to a large battlegroup
indefinitely, and they could use your heavy carriers because their finest
fleet-element ships, the Cygnus and Patriot, cannot take a single mine hit.
They also have the Gemini, which can supply you with 40 fighters per turn
cheaply.

The second-best choice would be the Rebels. By allying with them, you
get all the benefits of the Colonies except the COBOL, and you rid yourself
of a potential pest-the only race that doesn't show up on Dark Sense scans.
In addition, you get the Falcon probe. In conjunction with Empire forces,
the Falcon can be a devastating weapon; a forward Empire ship performs a
Dark Sense scan, locating a lush enemy planet or two far behind the line
of battle. The Rebel player is relayed this information, and sets up a
Falcon so that it is 340-360 l/y away from the target. Then he uses
WinPlan to target the planet, sets the Falcon to both HYP and Rebel Ground
Attack, and next turn the enemy planet is shattered. If there was a ship
in orbit, you'd also lose your probe; no matter, for the damage you caused
is severe. If not, leave it there until it is destroyed; the extra time
is merely the icing on the cake!

The Robots also would provide you with fighters in mass quantity, but
they lack a good fighter-producer, as the Q-Tanker can only make 12 a
turn, hardly on par with the Gemini. Also, what do they need you for?
They've got plenty of heavy fighter-carriers (although your lighter ones
would be welcome, probably - they lack a medium fighter carrier), so you
can't offer to lend muscle to them. The Dark Sense is all you have to
offer them, and that's hardly enough.

The Robots and the Empire are a good example of a bad treaty for the
Empire player, as it is not a "I-need-you, you-need-me" situation. One
end is "disposable". It is very important that the Empire player secure
good, *uninterrupted* fighter production, and to do that he must ensure
that the other end cannot manipulate him. It is hard for the Empire
player to treaty lightly with anyone, the agreement reached must be very
concrete and lasting for the Empire to be a force.


<???, DUNNC@ADSNET.NET>

You are starting out as the Evil Empire, and you have alot cash and
supplies burning a hole in yer pocket. What do you do? What ships do
you build first?

No matter what kinda situation I find myself in on the first turn, I
almost always make a LDSF to start my Evil Minions migrating. Turn two
will see me either building a Probe (I recommend it built with a x-ray
beam and tech10 engine), or a minelayer. Some players don't quite get
why the minelayer, but I will talk first on the probe. Your probe, as
you probably already know, has HYP ability--with its friendly code set
to "HYP" (notice the caps), a warp speed set to something (anything will
do--I do warp 1), and a waypoint of farther than 27 lys, and you will
zoom out into the cluster. The next turn will find you 100s of LYs from
your starting point. For those of you who want to calculate where you're
going, there are different Utility programs that can help you out.
Anyway, after the probe, you might consider a SSD. This initial SSD
would really come in handy if your porbe, using its DARKSENSE finds an
enemy starbase, you could have a SSD bearing down on them in 3-4 turns
before they can say "StormTrooper", much less mutter "Imperial Assault".

Like I mentioned before, sometimes I will build a SuperStarFrigate for
mine-laying early on in the game if I feel that my location is going to be
immediatly threatened. Tech4 torps will do nicely for the first part of
the game--then go to tech8. I never use anything in between--I feel it
is a waste of minerals and doesn't pay out as well. (The one exception
being Gamma bombs--which are used on special occasions).

Now, I just described some ways I would go at the START of the game.
Here is a list of ships I think an Evil Empire player will have need for:

The Probe---Of course to scout out places to live, as well as Enemy
bases and planets.

The SuperStarFrigate---The intiall ones should have tech4, later in the
game they should be tech10. These Frigates are
your only defense against cloakers, so station
them where you could be most damaged by the unseen,
and try and lay mines only when you think you
absolutly have to.

The H-Ross Carrier--Should have one at every Starbase for transport of
fighters to your heavy carriers.

The SuperStarCarrier--Your initial Battle Horse in the first stage of the
game, this is your baby. If you have to do straight
on battle toward the begining of the game, use a
COUPLE of these guys. Load 'em up with fighters,
and watch them go.

The SuperStarDestroyer--If the Imperial Assault was not available, I
wouldn't build one. But, we have that race
advantage. Build a fleet, and have them ready
to go. If you think you can take a Enemy's
starbase early on in the game, build one quick
and send it out by itself, or with a one ship
escort. But don't use this ship in one-on-one
combat. Use it for its mission. Best case
scenerio is to have a Gorbie or two towing one or
two Destroyers, which break off before an attack,
and concentrate on the enemy's planets.

The Gorbie Class Battleship--The Mother of All Ships. If you can get
your economics pumping in your empire, make
your homeworld a Gorbie Factory. These are
the best ships in all of the Cluster, but
they are also one of the most expensive.
If you are allied with the Colonists, these
ships and his free fighters will make you
unstoppable.

And of course use all your ships for their intended purposes--ie, make
sure they have apurpose when you put them out to sea. Battle groups, as
has been described in many good handbooks/FAQs are the Primo way to make
use of your ships, no matter what your race.

Good Hunting.


<Yama, TJAMA@RATOL.FI>

H-Ross & Moscow:

They are great against low-tech torp ships used beginning of the game,
but high-tech torpedos make them totally obsolete. If you're playing
'fast game',where startlocs are near to each other, these can be worth of
building. But in general,don't build any Moscows and build some H-Rosses
as fighter transports.

small ships:

Use Probe. Don't use scout or gunboat, they suck.

Super Star Carrier (SSR) & Super Star Cruiser (SSC)

Your Main Battle Ships. Note that SSC is actually cheaper (in mineral
terms-money shouldn't be problem). I'd prefer use SSC, but SSR is about
as good, and it has bigger cargo bay. However, beware anything with 5 or
more fighter bays (like Instrumentality).

Super Star Destroyer (SSD)

Common opinion says that it sucks without Imperial Assault. Common
opinion is right. Its hull is cheap, but don't let this fool you. Just
paying 30 more moly you get SSC which is more capable in all respects.
SSD works well against light carriers and low-tech torpedo ships, and
in unreg game, it's maybe worth of building (if you don't find humanoid
planets) but high-tech ships hammer it quickly. When using IA, don't
send SSDs alone.


<Hanbury Hampden-Turner, HANBURY.HAMPDEN-TURNER@BALLIOL.OX.AC.UK>


A few questions. Why build an H-ross? Most people seem to like them
"to transport fighters from bases to the main fleet". A Super Star
Carrier can carry more fighters for its weight, and it can also fight if
attacked. In a pinch it can be draughted as a warship. Against cloakers,
you don't want a ship that can be intercepted and destroyed to carry all
your precious fighters!

Why do people use Carriers as their main warship?

A Super Star Cruiser is cheaper in minerals, has more beams (this does
make a difference) and a larger fuel tank. I use a Carrier for fighter
transport and to fight if I'm desperate. Of course if you can't afford
the better design, the fair enough. But bear in mind that the most
expensive part of your ships is the engines (same for all) and the fighters.

You might as well put them on the best ship possible.


<???, DUNNC@ADSNET.NET>

Greetings Generals, Commanders, Lords, and Emperors---

You have found that you have immediate neighbors to the south and the
east of your empire. One happens to be the Birds, the other the Colonists.
Lets say your skills of diplomacy are up to par, and you can have your
choice of which one to ally with. One factor that should be of main
concern when deciding on who shall be your ally is what the race in
question has to offer--that is, to offer for SHIP TRADE. Now, back to the
scenerio:

this would be a tough decision to make, if you could only pick one race
out of the two described. The colonists would be great, because they could
supply all those big Carriers you have hanging around with hundreds of
Tie-Fighters. But we're talking about ship trading here....

The Birds and the Fascists have a ship that would make a Evil Emperor
drool--actually, it is a ship's ability that is the prize here--CLOAKING!
The Fascists offer what I think to be as great ship--any of their cloakers
that have torp tubes. The EE only have the one frigate for laying mines,
so another miner, with the bonus of CLOAKING, would be outstanding. There
are other ships that should be appealing--such as the Rebel Falcon, in
which you can place more colonists on for HYPING. But all in all, I feel
that CLOAKERS are where it is at. Get one, get two, and CLONE, CLONE,
CLONE.

As for what to give in return---NOTHING! GIVE 'EM THE IRON GLOVE!!!!!!!!
Just kidding--offer a HYPER probe (if the race doesn't already have the
capability). Another good trading ship that some players overlook to offer
is the SuperStar Carrier, which some races would consider a fair Carrier if
they don't already have one (the Lizards wouldn't mind one of these I bet).

The BEST ship you can give as a bargaining ship is, of course, the
SuperStar Destroyer. The Imperial Assault mission is a (to paraphrase the
docs) "ship thing, not a race thing". ALL races should want one of these
puppies, and it might be a good idea to offer it up for only the SHIPS you
are DYING to have. I never trade a Gorbie. Never. Never. Never. And
make sure, when you do trade away that SSD, that you can trust the race
almost unquestionably. Nothing more humiliating than having an Imperial
Assault take place on you when you are the Evil Empire. Trade it carefully.

Good Hunting

Lord Cameron VII

=======<1.9>=========================> The Robots <=======================

I don't need to tell you about mining, do I? Use the Cat's Paw for escorts
if you need one. It's not optimal but the only thing you have - all others are
either too weak or too heavy.

Well, whoever has the Robots as one of his/her races can make ENORMOUS mine
fields, essentially for free. In case you haven't seen other posts on this,
Here's what you do:
Robot sends torpedo ship to Starbase of ally. Ally's starbase set to LOAD
TORPS. (Friendly codes must match). Robot lays mines in ally's identity,
getting 4X bonus. Ally sweeps mines, puts them back on starbase. Repeat.
Each cycle gives you 4X as many mines, leading to an enormous minefield.

In the world of VGA planets, the three 'true' fighter races helds the edge
in frontal assault, and out of the three, my personal favorite is the Robots.
Why? Because I feel that the Robots have the best offensive and DEFENSIVE mix
out of all three major fighter races. So I would like to share some strategies
with you would-be Cylon masterminds out there.
I.Ships
The robots have a limited ip selections... and out of all of them, only
four types of ships are worth building (besides the freight and alchemy
ships): Golem, Instrumentality, Cats Paw, anQ tanker. Golem is the king of
the battlefield, and not much more needs to be said about it.
Instrumentality should be your backbone because they are 'relatively' cheap
compared to other carriers of yours in term firepower and cost ratio, and
also because 2 instrumental together can annhilate almost ANY ships in the
galaxy (assuming the instrumentality are fully stocked, that is) Cats Paw is
the ONLY ship of yours that can carry torp and mine, so built LOTs of it
and mine the galaxy. Q tanker is your fuel carrier and fighter factory
rolled in one, so have a lot of it.
II. Ships you REALLY want to get... 1) Gemini class freighter... The Rebel and
he Colony e an edge on you because of it. Acquire a few of them and your
instrumentality strike group won't need 4 Q tankers anymore. 2) Cloakers
with sizable cargo and big fuel tanks... like the White Falcon, Fearless
wing, Lizard Class, MBR, Coldpain, etc. Use the cloakers to mine the hell
out of your oppoents. Nothing hurts more then having one's major resupply
routes mined to hell. 3) MBR. Someone mentioned using MBR to tow super
carriers to battle. This could especially create an element of suprise if
you have a cloaked MBR meet the carrier task force at a planet some 81+ -
162 light years away from its target. Then use the MBR to tow the carrier
throught to the strike target... You got therene turn earler then expected.
There goes his planet. But this trick usually only works the first time,
once they know you got a MBR, game's up.
III.Great things to do as the Robot:
Go exterminate the privateers... The Robots are dangerous opponets to the
privateers, almost as bad as the crystals. So hire out to exterminate the
space scums. The way to elminate the privateers as the Robots is 1) Use
cloaker to mine if possible. 2) Mine alot. 3) Use shitty ships scarifices
to find out where are the privateer starbases 4) Mine somemore 5) send in
STRIKE GROUPS of instrumentality with fuel carriers who are pepturally
transfering fuel to destroy privateer starbase. 6) Mine somemore. With
the Robots, mine your way to victory. I found small fields with diameter
of 50 ly is about optimal.
Oh, one last thing... Find a cloaking race to be your friend, you need
those cloakingne layers.

>Thanx....I play the robots...hehehe How about a planet with 100 DP and a
>starbase with 60 fighters?

In one of my games I play the Robots. Few months ago I destroyed the
home planet of the Bird Men. One Instrumentality was quite enough. 100
defence posts is a piece of cake. This planet had about 200 defence
posts and 200 at the base. My ship took 70 % damage.

Here is some strategy tow the Instrumentality (I usually do since it needs
four engines) with a Cat's Paw Destroyer. If you run into a mine field use the
Cat's Paw to lay a bigger one remember that x4 mining advantage. Towed ships
can't be hit and the cat'w paw has enough cargo space to repair itself in
space with supplies.


<???, MLANDSEA@NETUSA1.NET>

In article <43agq1$rnp@ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>,
shimes@ix.netcom.com (Scott Himes ) wrote:
>
>I'm playing in a game as the robots, for my first time. Can some one
>give me some help on playing as the robots (ex. ships to build,
>actions, allies to make, and other stuff) Oh also we're in about turn
>6.

Okay, here's what U want to do. First off, depending on how the host is
setup, U might have a Cat's Paw (your ONLY torp ship) with 300 torps already
on it. Send your Cat's Paw to a nearby planet, peferably CLOSE to your
homeworld, and set the mission to lay mines. There's your advantage. The
robots lay 4 times the amount of mines per torp than the other races.
In turns down the road a little ways, have all your Cat's Paws go to some
planet and have their friendly code on "mkt" and have the minerals and $$$ on
board that will produce torps (same ratio as for SB's...). Then have the
ships lay mines as the mission. This strategy is currently working wonders

for me in a game I'm playing currently. You'll have massive mine fields all
over the place. Otherwise, Cat's Paws really aren't very good for much else.

The next thing U want to do after that first Cat's Paw is taken care of is
colonizing. LG Deep Space Freighters and Super Freighters. Just get them out
as fast as possible and try to conquer as many unknown planets as possible.
Do the normal strategy of trying to be neighborly of course. Setup borders,
and be careful to not dump a huge mine field on top of your ally....it upsets
them....

Once U get a few Large Freighters heading off in different directions, begin
building Q tankers... put Warp 1 engines on it, because U want them right
there around your SB's... Once built, put 1 fuel on them, change their
Friendly code to "lfm" and their mission to build fighters. From then on, the
only thing U do with your Q tankers is every turn remove as many fighters off

each as possible and place them on your fighter carriers, and any extra, try
to store on the SB....until that overflows. It is not uncommon for me to have
5 or more Q tankers in orbit around each of my SB's...but then I make over 160
fighters every turn from them.

After U get the first 1 or 2 Q tankers produced, build your best ship -
Instrumentality class. It's relatively cheap for how strong it is. This is
an excellent ship! U want a whole fleet of them, with only occassional Golem
Carriers too. Until U produce 80 fighters from your Q tankers, keep that
Instrumentality in orbit with lfm and build fighters. Once U hit 80 fighters,
fill up the Instrumentality class, change its Fcode and Mission and send it
off. BTW, the Instrumentality's should have lasers on them. They recharge
faster than the bigger weapons...that way when U fight another fighter
carrier, U can blast more fighters faster.

Even though my strategy sounds like it'll leave U kinda undefended for the

first several turns, you're not. Your mine field(s) will be a considerable
defensive power if another race decides to come after you. You'll enjoy
reading the many Distress calls from enemy ships that have hit your mines.
Quite entertaining. And then when U begin to mass produce those
Instrumentality Classes....you've got a fleet that isn't going to be ignored.
With your Q tankers making at least 80 fighters a turn on the SB that U
eventually decide has enough resources to produce several
Instrumentalitys...U've got yourself a production line. Good luck, hope I
helped!!!

mlandsea@netusa1.net (SWAMi)


<Robert Trifts, RTRIFTS@IDIRECT.COM>

This is all very good advice to the beginning Robot Player.

I would add however, that back on Turn 1 you should build a Pawn
Class.

This is not a particularly good ship, but it does have native lifeform
scanners which can be of invaluable assistance when colonizing. Build

it - set it on sensor sweep and identify native worlds for your LDSF's
to colonize.

 

.Robert

rtrifts@idirect.com


<Joost Walraven, JOOST@TWOFENCE.XS4ALL.NL>

Make large ships ans let them build fighters till they are full and these
ships are one of the strongest! See below for more information:

 

DAY 1 Engine TECH LEVEL to 10........transwarp drive
Weapon .. .. .. 3........blasters
Torpedo.. .. .. 10........mark 8's
Hull .. .. .. 6........LDSF and Instru
Tax.......about 13%.....5 levels above the green.

1. Strategy

I will mine the area surrounding my planet with the 300 mark 5 torps
and at the same time mine-scoop with a Cat with MK 8'S. If the Cat that is
mine-scooping has a low ID, then this will avoid giving away your position
to anyone else who is minesweeping. I colonize the SMALL DEEP SPACE
FREIGHTER and recycle the CAT's PAW CLASS DESTROYER that come at the start

of the game.
The ships I build during the first 10 days are:

2 CAT's PAW DESTROYERS with blasters and MARK 8 TORPS (turns 1 & 2)
2 Q-TANKERS with TECH 1 (one) engines (turns 3 & 4)
1 INSTRUMENTALITY CLASS BASESHIP (turn 5)
2 CAT's PAW DESTROYERS (turns 6 & 7)
2 LARGE DEEP SPACE FREIGHTERS (turns 8 & 9)
1 INSTRUMENTALITY CLASS BASESHIP (turn 10)

By not spending money to build fighters or torpedoes or upgrading
above HULL TECH 6 till much later in the game (if at all) I have a
formidable force. Depending on the game configuration (if there are a lot
of minerals, but little mc) I may choose to use Mark 4s until the minerals
in the game have been depleted. Again, depending on game configuration, I
may choose to make the 2 LARGE DEEP SPACE FREIGHTERS before turns 8 & 9.
The INSTRUS each get 80 fighters that I build from the Q-TANKERS.
When invading I mine the area with 100 MK 8 mines. This destroys any

enemy mines and makes the area hazardous for enemy shipping movement. The
Robots make minefields 4X other races, so at a reasonable cost I have
control of the battlefield while invading.
Best ally is the Privateer. With the accelerated ships for towing the
Instrumentality Baseship and the Cat's Paw (for mining) I have a strong and
fast moving strike force. The accelerated ships can also be loaded with
Mark 8s and sent deep into enemy territory to make for a nasty surprise when
someone gets up in the morning, and, lo and behold, half of their ships that
they thought safe from mines (because they were so far from the front lines)
have just hit mines!
One of your convoy groups could consist of the following:

LARGE DEEP SPACE FREIGHTER
CAT's PAW CLASS DESTROYER
INSTRUMENTALITY CLASS BASESHIP

Joost Walraven
joost@twofence.xs4all.nl



<Mika Ahvonen, MIKA.AHVONEN@SHARENET.COM>

At> I read this newsgroup every now and again, and notice tips for almost
At> every race except for the Robots. Well, I'm asking. Anybody got and
At> tips for the Robots? Duranium I find to be a major problem, and the
At> fact that the Intrumentalitys use up grevious amounts of fuel.
At> I am also (unfortunately) playing the unregistered game, so a
At> slight bias towards uniregistered version would be nice.
At> Cheers.

So. That duranium problem could easily be avoided if you just were playing
in a registered game... All that I can now think of is to establish good
freighter routes to feed your bases with dur. (Or maybe get a humanoid
planet, build a base - and Merlin and tow it to a bovinoid planet)
To other tactics: mine. Mine a lot (4x). Build Cat's Pawns and fill the echo
cluster with your mines. It's really quite fun, actually [;] Build Q-tankers,
too. They are good to move with your Instru strike groups (fuel) and are
excellent fighter builders. You could build couple of them with low tech

engines and leave them on top of your star base as stationary builders.
There's no point in building (IMHO) another capital ships than Cat's,
Q-tankers or Instrus. As a Robot, you have the very best tech 6 capital ship
in the whole game -in fact, two Instrus are able to kick almost any ships
butt (if they are filled with fighters, that is, an empty Instru is no good).
When you are attacking, use your miners to make enormous fields, it's the
fastest way to remove your foes minefields. It makes travelling much more
comfortable to your ships, and hazardous for his/her ships. (If you want to
get really mean, trade/steal/buy a cloaking miner and use it to mine your
enemys freighter routes into a hell. It hurts, believe me!)

mika.ahvonen@sharenet.com (Mika Ahvonen)


<Victor, VICTOR@ERINET.COM>

SHANNON LYNDS wrote:
>
> Opinions wanted: Which is the best Robotic ship to "mass produce"?
>
> Personally, I never buy the pawn or Cybernaught: Pathetic and costly
>
> The instramentally, Automa, and Golom are the ones I buy. WHICH is the
> best all round ship?
>
> At this moment in time I think the best "spear head" ship is the Automa,
> due to its hull mass and CARGO room (to build lost fighters). The
> instrumentallys, although awesome, would need local fuel tankers to produce
> fighters for them. I think The Instrumentallies are best for patrolling the
> parimeters of the Robotic empire for defence, or for expendable losses when
> fighting a huge ship like the Gorbie.(enough fighters for one battle:-) An
> instrumentally followed by a Golom will stop single ship.
>
> So.....go with the Automas???
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Shannon

The Instrumentality is generally known as the best all-purpose
Robotic ship. For extra fighters, you can either build a stripped

down low-tech Golem or you can probably trade or steal a Gemini
Class from the Rebels or Colonies.

Regards,
Victor
Victor <victor@erinet.com>


duranium,not much tri and mol. also buiding fighter is taking tri and mol
and supply not duranium. that is reason that robot is given an advantage
then other carrier race. tip is simple, take a notice to duranium and make
a trans route by duranium.

constantly consider 'at next turn, how many duranium will remind?'
futhermore it is stupid to make all robot ship with trans warp (not if
there is many many Credit and material).just make ins,atoma,golem with
level 1 or 2 engines. and tow them with Q-tanker or cat's claw. but to
assault to enermy defence line, it is needed for few ins,atoma, golem with
trans warp. and it's not necessary to equip robotship with hitech
beamweapon. because robot's 4Xmine can replace of mine sweep(not if your
enemy is Crystal)

building robot ship is limited as follow

- pawn baseship:for bio scanner, build this one in early.

- cat's claw destroyer :use to lay mine

- Instrumentality baseship:top battleship in share!

- atoma baseship :take a few Credit than Ins.and continually fight without
fighter supply.

- golem baseship :ranked best ship with virgo,gorby,biocide.(if your
enermy is a Heavy carrier race, make this)

try best to abtain cloak ship :use them a suprise 4Xmine lay.
try best to abtain gemini :good fighter maker and tranporter
(if your enermy is colony or rebel.
surely get this ship by trading or capturing
or you are short for fighter supply)

as my experiences..fuel is the biggest weak point of robot.

so my advice to robot player about attacking, keep in mind this word
'concentrate your attack'

do not careless attack,concentrate your baseship at boader and collect
fuel, and then use cat's claw lay mine(using cloaker is better).
then let your all baseship charge to your enermy at the same time.
enermy ship is isolated by mine,then you can defeat one by one.

'not ACT as your enermy expect' sorry for my TERRIBLE english :)


<Bwana, DMGARVEY@ALF2.TCD.IE>

First thing to remember about the Bots is that although they can build
free fighters, they can't build many at once, the Q tanker makes only
12 per turn, verses 30-40 for the rebel and colonial factories, so you
will need 3-4 over your homeworld, and a couple tagging along with
your fleet using the 'lfm' friendly code to keep up the supply.

Also, although the Bots have decent ships, they are quite heavy (need
lots of fuel) and are quite expensive, so don't through them away in
rabid assaults just because you're one of the 'heavy' races. Never
fight a single battle unless you're surrounded by your own mines. You
make 4 times the mine units per torp, which translates into minefields
with 2 times the radius for the same money, use this advantage without
mercy, and blanket your traget cluster/planet with mines before you
move in, even before the enemy knows you are there. Lay mines with
precision, always getting the maximum overlap, and always without any
warning.

Remember that minefields, cool though they are, do not last long
against someone who is prepared for them (ie: has heavy beam ships in
the area) but they slow down the enemy immensely, preventing the
reinforcement of that critical enemy starbase for the 2-3 turns it will
take to reduce it to slag. Minefields will also stop freighters and
small cloakers from making a run for it, enabling you to pound them at
will while the enemy's capital ships look on uselessly from the outside
of the minefield.

You need money, lots of it, especially in the fight against cloakers.
To effectively deal with the cloaking races, you will have to 'walk' a
series of minefields all the way to them, to protect your capital ships
from being intercepted. (the Q tankers are especially vulnerable to a
cloaked intercept, and without them, your instrumentality's cargo hold
just doesn't have enough to launch a serious attack.

Be careful with your Cats Paws, they are basically worthless in a stand
-up fight against most ships (especially an MBR, a good Priv could take
out your empires minelaying ability in one turn my intercepting all
of your Cats).

In fact, be _especially_ careful of the Privateers, you might have a
massive minefield ability, but if you don't use it, and an MBR or four
gets to your starbases, you are FINISHED. An MBR will destroy any of
your ships except the fighter carrier, and you won't be able to arm a
fighter carrier because your fleet of Q-tankers went the same way as
your Cats!


<Jurjen Niezink, J.W.NIEZINK@RCONDW.RUG.NL>

Hello,

First of all, the Robots may have some heavy ships but they are quite
weak if they are not being played right. Everybody thinks that the four
times mine-laying is kewl.. but you need to know how to use it properly.

When you are registered, make sure you start with little mine-fields.
Depending on the host-settings that is. Because if you are allowed to
create overlapping mine-fields, you can expand those little minefields
later on, so that the change of a mine-hit increases. Just drop about
10 Mark 4's every time and let it grow later on in the game if you have
found that 10.000.000 unity Insectoid planet, because you will need the
money!

I prefer to have Mark 4 launchers on my ship. That way i can make
torpedo's in space, for just a little money. This increases the flexibility
of your fleet.

When you are playing shareware, just return to your starbase to drop
the right amount of torpedo's each time.



<Stonig, STONIG@IX.NETCOM.COM>

As the Robot player, you have many huge, offensive ships at your
disposal. However, most of them are not worth very much.. thus, you
really shouldn't build more than one of any ship not on this list of
decent ships (excl. frieghters):

Cat's Paw Class Destroyer
Q Tanker
Instrumentality Class Baseship
Golem Class Baseship

Not much of a selection, huh? The Cat's Paw is invaluable, as it's
minelaying value is great, and that is about all you have to protect
against cloakers (considering as the Robot player, you don't have any
patrol vessels). The Q Tanker is your most efficient fighter-builder,
and doubles as your fleet supply vessel. Your Instrumentality is a
fearful vessel; it can crush a Super Star Cruiser without breaking a
sweat. The Golem is not too useful, due to it's very high cost; however,
some situations are best handled by this behemoth.

The Robots are one of the races that most needs traded ships; they
possess, as aforementioned, no patrol vessels, and no support vessels
(trade for a Gemini).

=======<1.10>=========================> The Rebel Alliance <===============


Probably best for newbies. The deep space scout is your preferred starting
ship, low minerals and 4 beams, also cheap. Next Gemini with a fighter bay and
400 cargo room. Patriots are good, but only 30 fighters so don't take on a base
until its been well fried by the sabotage planet mission. Concentrate on
expanding with DSS's, and using a Gemini to bulk up whilst building fighters
in space. Leave 100 cargo free, and fill that space with 10 fighters (50S, 30T,
20M) to be built en voyage.

Stay away from the armed freighters for transport purposes. They aren't worth
it. You have plenty of fantastic escort ships. You are the best equipped
conventional power when it comes to dealing with cloakers.
Escorts: Patriot (cheap and heavy), Guardian, and also Cygnus.

: My Rebel colonists are overpopulated and they eat supplies! What is the best
: way to kill them?

The best way? Have your Facist player come in and pillage you. You lose 20% of
your population, they riot, but you get about 6000 supplies and money just
from that one action... But of course, remember to thank your Facist for being
in the neighborhood.

>HELP! I'm playing the Rebels and the Robots sitting om my doorstep have
>decided to send an Instrumentality Baseship against me. He's moving pretty
>slowly so I have a few turns.

Use your Patriots. As others have mentioned, against any serious opponent,
don't thinkof a Patriot as a ship, think of it as a round of ammunition.
They're so cheap, you can afford to lose a few. Put a good engine on one,
fill it with fighters, and have it tow another with Warp 1 engines into the
face of an Insturmentality. You'll probably loose both, but the
insturmentality will not be a combat vessel by the time the last fighter dies.

More anti-privateer tactics that I tried a long time ago:
As the Rebels, you can use disposable ships as weapons. Prepare cheap ships
such as Falcon-Class Escorts and Small DSFs with tech-3 or 4 engines. Tow them
very close to their starbase with 1 or 2 good capital ships, e.g., Patriot,
Guardian. Launch the disposable ships toward planet with mission set to Rebel
Ground Attack! Do it one by one. Recall that special missions happen before
combat, so the ground attack happens before the ship gets destroyed or captured.
The second ship will be enough to cause a civil war. Keep the other ships
moving but still close to the starbase. That way, they can't intercept and rob.
If they choose to intercept, the Patriot should toast them. Wait around the
starbase for around 10 turns then launch the third ground attack mission. This
will keep them in civil war and should be able to kill off the rest of the
population on the planet. You might want to have another freighter in the
convoy with 100+ colonists. Who knows, you might end up capturing the starbase.

If you're not the Rebels, try hiring them. The Fascists are also O.K., but
this takes longer and you'd be giving them lots of supplies and money (in
which case the Privateers might be happy to oblige). Of course you might also
want to ask the Lizards to help so you can speed-up the process.

It might be useful to bring along a good mine-laying ship too if you're
playing with the newer host. If they lay a minefield trying to stop you just
lay yours (around their starbase) to cancel theirs. Good hunting.

> Am I still able to cloak while doing the Rebel ground attack?

No. They are both missions, and you can only do one mission at a time.

> If he has his ships orbitting that planet, will I still get to do my Rebel
> ground attack? (His ships set to primary enermy 'rebels')

Apparently the ground attack happens before combat.

> If I can do my rebel ground attack can he attack me, if I then cloak the next
> turn? (Bit cunning but would be good if that worked)

If you do the ground attack, he can attack you and presumably will
waste your ship. So you won't have an opportunity to cloak the
next turn.

Probably best for newbies. The deep space scout is your preferred starting
ship, low minerals and 4 beams, also cheap. Next Gemini with a fighter bay
and 400 cargo room. Patriots are good, but only 30 fighters so don't take on
a base until its been well fried by the sabotage planet mission. Concentrate
on expanding with DSS's, and using a Gemini to bulk up whilst building fighters
in space. Leave 100 cargo free, and fill that space with 10 fighters (50S, 30T,
20M) to be built en voyage.

>For rebel ground attack to work you need to land colonists at the same time.

This is not true. Don't believe any thing posted to this newsgroup unless
you have tried it yourself.
>For rebel ground attack to work you need to land colonists at the same time.

This isn't quite right. You can groundattack without dropping colonists,
but for some strange reason, this is done AFTER fighting, so once I destroyed
my own planet where I wanted to move after the attack.

You have to avoid combat to use the Rebel Ground Assault. That means make
sure any ships going in to RGS are _not_ set to Primary Enemy of whoever owns
the planet. If he has ships in orbit, you will have to fight and destroy them.
A logical strategy is to send in one warship set to "kill", and another set to
RGS. Hope that the "kill" will destroy the defending ships and then be blown
up by planetary defenses, allowing the other to RGS. It's tricky, but the only
way to use RGS on a planet with a defensive ship around it. The easy
alternative it to only use RGS on planets that have no ships in orbit.

>A hint: RGA becomes VERY nasty if used by a cloaked ship: you cloak,
>enter orbit, THEN set to RGA and leave. You get to attack the planet
>and the owner of the planet has no opportunity to fight back, except by
>laying mines and hopeing you hit one. This is EXTREMELY powerful, and
>is why the Rebels don't have any cloaking ships of their own.

As with all advice, TEST this first. When I was running sims with the
Rebels to find out what they could do to me (they were attacking), I
discovered that the ground assault occurred after movement and after ship
combat. As I moved the "test" ship from planet to planet, the assualt was
launched against the new planet--not the planet just vacated.
The cloak will allow you to get to a planet undetected, but I think you
will have to survive 1 turn in orbit to get the ground assualt to work.

Well, I don't know about the Rebels being the weakest race around, but you
can sure kick ass with the Rebel Ground attack if you find his home-base early
in the game and you're playing with medium money and population. Totally
wasted my privateer neighbours in an ongoing game :). If you combine this with
the long range the falcon has, due to hyperdrive, you can force a player to
guard *all* his planets worth keeping, since 3 rounds of attack will destroy
from 49 to 94 percent of anything on the surface. Not bad. I haven't tried it
out yet, but this will probably force a rebels enemy to deploy some ships to
his defence, way beyond the front line.

You can rebel attack yourself. I discovered this the hard way. Set a ship on
ground attack and sent it home. It seems to have attacked both planets in one
turn, but I'm not sure. The player I intended to attack complained, but I
didn't get a message. It toasted a planet of mine, too. I won't be making that
mistake again!

Ground attack takes place after movement.
BTW, it is no mistake to use ground attack on your own planets. Ground attack
makes natives happy and if your colonists are happy they will be very angry
after ground attack, but who cares ? The growth slows down a bit, that's all.

If you have a planet with good natives and minerals, build mines and ground
attack one time after the minerals are out. The mines will be destroyed (60% I
believe), the natives will be happy and you can raise your taxes. You can also
ground attack to calm down angry or rioting natives (but make sure that your
colonists are happy before you ground-attack).


<Anthony Uk, AUK@G26.ETHZ.CH>

Nick Honeywell (Nick@express.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: My question is this. What is the best way to manage my resources, which races
: should I be afraid of, and which races should be afraid of me?

The nice thing about the rebels is that you can rebel ground attack yourself.
Why would you want to do this? If you have a native-rich, mineral-poor planet,

you can overtax your natives like hell. Keep a large deep space above the
planet. You'll also need a scout if you're playing PHOST with the "Rebel
Ground Attack requires Beams" option enabled. When the natives get angry,
load your colonists and supplies onto the freighter - and Rebel Ground Attack!
The natives will be happy again, you can replace your colonists and start
overtaxing again. Much better than Hiss :)

You can build fighters in space, so make a Gemini and put it over a
mineral rich planet. One mistake I made was to keep it over the starbase for
too long - you'll run out of Tritanium in no time.

Be afraid of the Privs. Mine your territory. It's rather difficult to take
out an MBR.

: I am exchenging one of my class 7 Gemni ships with the Fasicts for a Deth
: Spacula Class Frigate. Good idea? Bad idea? I do want clocked ships though.

You screwed him! =) The Deth Specula can *fight*. The Gemini can't, since it's
only got one fighter bay. The only use for a Gemini is to build fighters in

space. You could offer your services to the other races... the Rebels are
best equipped for this.

Cloaked ships -> get some, they're great for Rebel Ground Attack. Also, use
those Falcons! They're fast, good for Ground Attack, cost nothing.. and the
enemy will never see you coming...

Anthony Uk (Chip) auk@g26.ethz.ch


 

<Duncan Maccubbin, DXM1@NRC.GOV>

Although the Falcon Class Escort is a poor warship at best (easily
captured) it is a good defense ship. By jumping a few Falcons into
an enemies territory your can put them on the defensive and buy time
to build up. The fear of the RGA makes your enemy try to defend all
of their planets and thus ties up their resorces on defense. In this
tactic try to avoid confrontations with enemy ships or you will lose
your ship. If you do see a lonely frieghter a Falcon is a good raider.
Due to the large colonist populations the Borgs have this tactic is
not good against them. A good defense against them is a treaty.


 

<Duncan Maccubbin, DXM1@NRC.GOV>

 

I feel the Rebels have a good balance of ships. The Falcon and Cygnus
offer good features for a good price. The Cygnus offers 4 beams and 4
tubes at tech 1. One nice feature of this ship is if it loses a combat
it dies and is not captured. The Falcon is quick and is a must have
early in the game to expand quickly. This is not an attack ship, it can
be captured easily. The Guardian destroyer is good against small ships
but is no good against carriers. I don't like the Sage frigate due to
it's small cargo and it is captured easily. I like the Gemini transport
due to it's cargo and it can build 40 fighters a turn. You can build and
load Patriots all day with this ship. The Tranquility cruiser has good
cargo at a good price. This ship does not get captured and is okay in
combat. I am not big on the Iron lady frigate. Sure it will kill some
fighters, but a Cygnus will get off more torps against a Super Star
destroyer and the Iron lady will get captured. The Rush is the main Rebel
ship. For the Rebels this ship is cheap. In two turns it and a Gemini can
build 150 fighters for 0 Megacredits. The Robots can only build 79 in two
turns with a Golem and a Q tanker. Even though the Rush only has 5 beams
it does okay against the other big boys. Good luck!

=======<1.11>========================> The Missing Colonies of Man <======

For an escort use the Cygnus. Use the Patriots for sweeping away all
minefields within your range...

A friend of mine has a saying: "Don't think of a Patriot as a ship. Think
of it as a round of ammunition". One Patriot can take out a respectable sized
torp ship, but can only do that _once_. Unless you refill it with fighters
before the next battle, it's scrap metal.

> Ever consider what a Gemini Class or two can do if they are in the company
> of a Virgo class? Talk about never running out of fighters, and with the 400
> hold capacity, just think about the mine sweeping potential these guys have.
Or for refilling a fleet of Patriots, chewing up Coldpains, and similar ships.
The enemy ships need to kill the fighters before they get to use torps (from
actual battle experience, not the simulator). As long as the Patriots don't get
low, they'll chew they hell out of those Cruisers and Destroyers...

Remember their is no reason to put 8 tech 10 engines on the virgo, much
cheaper to tow it. There is no reason to fill the cargo hold full of fighters
100 to 150 should be more than enough and only if you have minerals to spare
should one put beams better than tech 1 or 2 on a virgo.

The free fighters are terrific when attacking other races. Enough said :)

Well, I'm biased for the Colonies. The minesweeping is very handy. Ever
watch a Gemini toast a minefield? I'll admit it caught me by surprise that
ALL the fighters got into the act. (pity I only had 40 on it). The Patriot
is small, but in the early game, 6 bays are nice, and they are cheap. Toss a
Gemini outside the starbase, and you can fill the Patriots as fast as you
can make them. (and fill up the starbase). Sending 4 patriots, 1 Scorpius,
and a Little Joe, does make an impression)

The only drawback I can see, is that they really don't have any good medium
ships. (Now if the 6 fighter bays were on the Scorpius, that would be
different. Methinks they got them backwards with the Patriot).


<Chris, ???>

> Hello gents. I am just starting a new planets and I am the Colonies of man.
> I played them before with the old version of planets, but never with the new
> features. How do you use the COBAL ramscoop to make fuel and how do you get
> MegaCredits with the Lady Royals? Is it possible to go across the entire
> galaxy with a COBAL? What are the best stratigies for the Colonies. Any help
> would be appreciated.

Cobol : The Ramscoop works automatically. For every lightyear you move,
the ship gathers 2 Kt of Neutronium (assuming default setup).
And, yes, it IS possible to cross the cluster w/ a Cobol
without stopping for more fuel.
The BioSensor (which you didn't ask about) only functions when
the ship is set to Sensor Sweep. When the sensor is functioning
there is a 20% chance of detecting the number and type of
natives present on each planet in range. This can be blocked by
Defense Posts much like the standard sensor sweep.

Lady Royale : The money production is automatic. Just put clans on board
and you get one MCr/clan (assuming this is turned on).

Best Strategy :
Assuming Host 3.2, a good starting point is to build Cobols
w/fairly low tech engines (around 6) and use them for your
initial colonization efforts. With the Ramscoop you don't have
to worry about fuel, and with the BioSensor you can quickly
locate valuable planets (at least in terms of natives). What
you do after that depends greatly on who your neighbors are and
if you can establish friendly relations with them.

 

Chris


 

<???,???>

: > Hello gents. I am just starting a new planets and I am the Colonies of man.
: > I played them before with the old version of planets, but never with the new
: > features. How do you use the COBAL ramscoop to make fuel and how do you get
: > MegaCredits with the Lady Royals? Is it possible to go across the entire

: > galaxy with a COBAL? What are the best stratigies for the Colonies. Any help
: > would be appreciated.

: Cobol : The Ramscoop works automatically. For every lightyear you move,
: the ship gathers 2 Kt of Neutronium (assuming default setup).
: And, yes, it IS possible to cross the cluster w/ a Cobol
: without stopping for more fuel.
: The BioSensor (which you didn't ask about) only functions when
: the ship is set to Sensor Sweep. When the sensor is functioning
: there is a 20% chance of detecting the number and type of
: natives present on each planet in range. This can be blocked by
: Defense Posts much like the standard sensor sweep.

: Lady Royale : The money production is automatic. Just put clans on board
: and you get one MCr/clan (assuming this is turned on).

: Best Strategy :
: Assuming Host 3.2, a good starting point is to build Cobols
: w/fairly low tech engines (around 6) and use them for your

: initial colonization efforts. With the Ramscoop you don't have
: to worry about fuel, and with the BioSensor you can quickly
: locate valuable planets (at least in terms of natives). What
: you do after that depends greatly on who your neighbors are and
: if you can establish friendly relations with them.

I would use the highest engines possible. You can then use the cobols to tow
larger ships around (like Merlins and Super Transports) that have junk
engines. Not to mention you can send the Cobols about 75 ly out from the
starbase, then back and just dump the fuel. VERY handy in the early game
when you only have one starbase.

In the later game, I send a cobol along with the battlestars to make sure it
doesn't run out of gas deep in enemy territory. (also useful for annoying
privateers <g>)

 

: Chris


<Cliff Murphy, DRKMNION@IX.NETCOM.COM

A BATTLE GROUP is a specific group of ships that complement each other
in a specific task.by keeping the ships standard it is easier to manage
your forces.keeping track of thirty ships is hard but keeping track of
10 BATTLEGROUPS with three similar ships each is much easier.

When trying to pick out ships that will work well together, first de-
cide on exactly what you want them to do.in the example that follows
we are trying to create a BATTLEGROUP that will be able to run along
the border of enemy territory and take out most the ships that it meets,
causing general disruption, destroying enemy ships and resources and
putting the enemy into a defensive mindset.

A piont to remember, wichever ships you select for your BATTLEGROUP
KNOW what role you will use it for and build it with the weapons that
will be the most effective.dont mix and match having seven ships that
are standard are easier to plan than seven non-standard ships.

THE COLONY OF MAN are an often overlooked race in vga-planets what
follows is a short lesson on how to use there ships effectively.for
the purpose of this lesson lets assume your UNREGISTERED.first off it
is vital to know about the better ships in THE COLONY.so here are
some notes on the best colony ships.

1. PATRIOT CLASS LIGHT CARRIER
-6 FIGHTER BAYS
-2 BEAM WEAPONS
-30KT CARGO CAPACITY

This ship is a deadly killer.it can destroy virtually any small to
medium sized ship and take no damage.the secret to its effectiveness
is its 6 fighter bays.in battle , an opposing ship will only be able
to fire its weapons twice before the first fighters arrive; in the
same period of time, usually 18-20 fighters have been released by the
PATRIOT.therefore, unless the opposing ship has 9-10 beam weapons
(wich is rare), you can be certain of causing damage to the enemy.
against a medium sized ship, if only 10-12 of the PATRIOT'S fighters
are destroyed, the remaining fighters are sufficient to destroy the
victim; therefore unless the opposing ship has an extremely high mass,
a PATRIOT CLASS CARRIER can destroy most medium sized ships with less
than 7 beam weapons, and 2 PATRIOTS CLASS CARRIERS working together
can destroy virtually any tech 7 or below ship that does not have
fighters of its own.best of all it is a component of the COLONY BATTLE
GROUP.

CAUTION:the PATRIOT CLASS LIGHT CARRIER is virtually useless without
30 fighters on board.although you may be able to get away with 25 or
so, with much fewer than that you are giveing up the only advantage the
PATRIOT has, getting alot of fighters up in a short amount of time.
NOTE:if you need to save money,you can get away with tech 1 beams on
the PATRIOT----IT USES THEM RARELY AND WHEN IT DOES IT IS TO KILL
FIGHTERS AND TECH 1 IS AS GOOD AS TECH 9 IN THAT DEPARTMENT.

2.GEMINI CLASS CARRIER
-1 FIGHTER BAY
-4 BEAM WEAPONS
-400KT CARGO CAPACITY

this capable little ship is great for two missions:
a)TRANSPORT: with 400kt cargo capacity you can load alot of minerals
onto this ship,and, with its fighter bay and 4 beams, it is capable
of defending itself against smaller ships; therefore you can send it
on short journeys unescorted.

b)FIGHTER PRODUCTION: when it comes to building fighters nothing beats
the GEMINI. to build alot of fighters quickly just put a GEMINI around
a mineral rich planet (preferably one with a starbase),and do the
following
i.load these onboard
120-tritanium
80 -molybdenum
150-supplies
ii.set the mission of the GEMINI to 'build fighters"
iii.next turn you will have 40 fighters! without paying a
single mega-credit

3.TRANQUILITY CLASS CRUISER
-2 torpedo launchers
-4 beam weapons
-380kt cargo capacity

the TRANQUILITY is a hardy ship that is also a good transport
slightly more powerfull than the GEMINI, it can be trusted to move
cargo to anyplace you need to go. nuff said.

4.LITTLE JOE CLASS ESCORT
-6 beam weapons
-20kt cargo capacity

the LITTLE JOE is an excellent ship,but only if used properly and nev-
er when used alone.proper use of the LITTLE JOE is described below, in
the COLONY BATLLEGROUP section.

5.CYGNUSS CLASS BATTLESHIP
-4 torpedo launchers
-4 beam weapons
-50kt cargo capacity

this ship is the third component of the COLONY BATTLEGROUP described
below.it is the perfect addition to to this battlegroup because it is
a cheap torpedo carrier that holds enough torpedos to last along camp-
aign.

THE COLONIES OF MAN GENERAL-PURPOSE BATTLEGROUP
1.SHIPS
1 x PATRIOT CLASS CARRIER with 30 fighters and tech 6 beams.
1 x LITTLE JOE CLASS ESCORT with (disruptors)
1 x CYGNUSS CLASS BATTLESHIP with tech 6 torpedos and beams.

these three ships, when sent out together, combine to form one of the
most powerfull battlegroups available to the unregistered player,if
used properly.when this battlegroup is about to attack an opponent,set
the ships to attack in a certain order that depends on the type of
ship being attacked.

1.against a TORPEDO carrying ship; set the following attack order
-PATRIOT FIRST
-CYGNUSS SECOND
-LITTLE JOE THIRD
this is for obvious reasons the PATRIOT destroy most ships but if it
did not the LITTLE JOE would be dead against the torpedos

2.against a FIGHTER carrying ship; set the following attack order
-LITTLE JOE FIRST
-CYGNUSS SECOND
-PATRIOT THIRD
the LITTLE JOE will most likely be destroyed,but it will take out alot
of the fighters with it.then the CYGNUSS with its 4 beams and 4 torps
can clean up.

3.against a beam only ship; set the following attack order
-CYGNUSS FIRST
-PATRIOT SECOND
-LITTLE JOE THIRD
in this situation you dont want the PATRIOT to attack first,since you
could expect to lose alot of your fighters needlessly.

4.against an unarmed ship; set the following attack order
-LITTLE JOE ONLY
this is why you have the LITTLE JOE to begin with and why you put
disruptors on it.SO IT CAN CAPTURE ENEMY FREIGHTERS.obviously against
an unarmed ship no other ships should enter the battle.

if you want to beef up the COLONY BATTLEGROUP you should first add a
LITTLE JOE.it is likely to be destroyed first and it helps to have two
LITTLE JOES to strip fighters off of enemy fighter carriers.

thats it.......

contributed to the WAR ROOM by cliff murphy drkmnion@ix.netcom.com
authored by ramutis giliauskas.


<Mark Fleenor, FLEENOR@ELMAIL.CC.PURDUE.EDU>

I have found that if you build 4-5 Lady Royale class cruisers
and park them all around one planet at a time it helps in getting the
megacredits to build starbases early in the game. Since the Lady
Royale, when loaded with 160 clans produces 160 MC per turn. Take
that number and times it times 4 or 5 depending on how many you have
in orbit and it gives you like 640-800 MC per turn. In just two turns
you have enough to build the starbase and upgrade a few tech levels on
your way. They also work good for colonizing.


<???, COUSIN.IT@JUNO.COM>


Patriot carriers are good fighting ships. The only problem is they are
limited in fighter capacity and fuel tanks. These limitations make for a
good frotier defender. They are capable of taking out small and medium
ships and even a few larger ships. I would recommend keeping some of these
as border gaurds to intercept ships wandering too close to your teritorry.
When they need a refil of fighters they're not too far away from a starbase.



<Matthew Wokasch, XTREMISTS@AOL.COM>

This is quite obvious... Never underestimate the strength of these
ships. With the ability to create fuel it makes this one of the best
ships in the game. This ship should be the first four or five ships
you build. This ship makes a GREAT colonizer and tower. This is also
because of its ability to make fuel. It never has to take any off of
planets and can continue going with out a stop. I have found this ship
most useful when 120 clans are placed on it and then filled with supplies.


<Brent Veltkamp, BRENT@TR.COMM.MOT.COM>

The colonies are usually a looked over race, no midsize carriers, no
real torpedo ships(other than the Tranquility) but it is actually a very
powerful race if you make a good alliance.

You will find that several races will like your mine sweeping ability
most notable are the cloaking races(Lizards and Privateer especially).
Most people would think the Privateers are the best race to align with
but I disagree, in fact I always attack them(it is fun to hear their
MBR's explode).

Seriously I feel the best races to align with are the Lizards or the
Crystals. The Crystals are obvious because they have a decent
Battlecruiser and the Colonies cannot sweep their mines with fighters.
Overall I would align with the Lizards for several reasons. The Lizards
lack mine sweeping ability and their greatest weapon is their economy and
their ground assualt. So it would be very easy for you to help them with
their ground assualt, by removing those nasty mines in exchange for some
HiSSing ships at a few of your good planets.

Now that the Lizards are expanding and you have more money than you
know what to do with, now what do you do? Easy, you mine the heck out
of the Privateers and give a few Virgos to the Lizards to attack with.
The Virgo is not the largest or strongest ship but with the Lizards 150%
damage in combat, it quickly becomes a ship to fear. In the meantime
aquire some LCC's and mine your opponents supply lines.

But then if you wish to be like everyone else and align with the
Privateers then you can do something more like the following. Let the
MBR's tow your Virgo's into battle(only put warp 1 engines on them), use
Virgo's and Gemini's to sweep up enemy fields so the Privateer can steal
your opponents blind, acquire some MBR with Mark VIII launchers and mine
your opponents supply lines and acquire a few BloodFangs(they are not a
great ship but you lack a real medium carrier). Clone captured ships for
yourself and the Privateer.

Worst race to align with would be the Rebels, they have nothing to give
you(your Virgo is as good as their Rush). The Rebels have a need for
mine sweeping and the only thing they can offer is a Guardian Class
Destroyer(too light, one mine and it is toast) and their ground assualt.
If you needed help ground assualting someone you would do better with
either the Lizards or the Fascists because both those races can give you
decent ships in exchange for your services.

Best of Luck


<Tobias Barzydlo, TBARZYDL@B856S1.SSC.AF.MIL>

The Colonists are a ship-weak race. One of our main disadvantages is
the lack of a good medium-sized carrier. However, to those who lack the
chunneling ability of the 'Borgs or the gravatonic acccelerators of the
Pirates, the ability to fly -anywhere- on the map without running out of
fuel makes the COBOL our best non-combat ship design! Build Cobols early
to fly to far-away clusters and colonize (they hold 250 megatons of cargo,
better than a medium freighter). Have them escort a Large Freighter and
feed it fuel for even more cargo capacity!

Build Cobols in the mid-game to fly around the edges of the enemy's
empire, mining planets and harassing freighters. Fly them around with any
large ship and attack bases on the other side of his empire.

Build Cobols late in the game to supply those long-range battle groups
with enough fuel to fly directly to the target, without having to loose
time refueling along the way.


<Oeyvind Saeter, OYSATER@SN.NO>

There has been a little talk about the Colonial race, so I'm gonna
throw in a couple of words:

1. Ally with a good Torp Ship race.
2. Use Cobolts for expanding/finding rich planets (RAM Scoop), and
suitable base planets.
3. Buil a Laydy Royale (Aries Gunship in PHOST I think) or four to get
some gambeling money - If needed.
4. Build some good freighters - You need minerales for step 5.
5. VIRGO (or Atlantia in PList?). This is the ship that i LOVE. One of
the stronger ships in the galaxy, combined with some good torp ships
(see step 1) - nasty.... (1 smale torp + 1 Virgo + 1 Large Torp + 2
Virgo => bye bye to 4 Biocide's,... well.... in the sims...)

=======<2.0>============================> Misc. things <=====================

I have decided to add this section to the -H- Files to cover specific
topics that applies to mostly every game.

=======<2.1>============================> The Fighters/Torps debate <========

This is a thread that has been going for very long in the
alt.games.vga-planets newsgroup. Well, let's go to the show.


<???, TINMAN@WIDOWMAKER.COM>

> Absolutely. My players have been screaming for this for some
> time, as frankly, torps are not powerful enough in the high end for large

> ships to take on carriers. It's pathetic when a TL10 Fed Nova Battleship
> gets taken consistently by a TL6 Cylon Instrumentality Class ship. I
> think that's a good indication that there's something amiss. Not only
> should you have this kind of control, but torps should be more powerful
> so that mark 8 torps do more than 2% damage to the biggest ships.

Bah. It's always been the case that carriers have more power than
battleships. As it stands, battleships still do plenty of financial
damage. For races that don't get free fighters, carriers are dreadfully
expensive. That Nova might lose to a Crystal Thunder, but not before
causing a couple thousand megacredits worth of fighter damage.


<Donald Hall, DONALD@TRAVELLER.COM>

> Also, I believe that building fighters in space should have a
> configurable cost, because getting them for free is far too powerful.

Well building fighters in space is not FREE. The race must put the
minerals and supplies on board his carrier. This might not make a
differnce in a well devoloped game, but at the start of a new game it
may come to a choice more fighters or a new ship.

Then look at the cost of building mid level ships carriers,(if the
fighter builder has any) compared to the torp races mid level ships.
If you have aproblem with carrier races then kill them as soon as ya
see them. Then no big nasty carriers driveing around to offend ya....


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

souliemp@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (M.P. Soulier) wrote:

> Absolutely. My players have been screaming for this for some
>time, as frankly, torps are not powerful enough in the high end for large
>ships to take on carriers.

That is how it should be!

The races that have free (or cheap) fighters) must rely on the strength
of their ships for their success.
The other races have other advantages - economic strength, cloaking,
webs - whatever.

 

> It's pathetic when a TL10 Fed Nova Battleship
>gets taken consistently by a TL6 Cylon Instrumentality Class ship.

Actually this usually means that someone has sneakily enabled the engine
shield bonus, something that is designed to favour lighter ships.
In this situation, a Nova is the *wrong* ship to be engaging an
instrumentality with (try thors and kittys).
Without E-S bonus, the Nova should eat the Instrumentality (but will be
badly damaged).

> Also, I believe that building fighters in space should have a
>configurable cost, because getting them for free is far too powerful. At
>least if you can make the enemy pay for every fighter, it might not be
>cost effective to continue. This makes destroying his production
>facilities more damaging as well.

They are not free - they cost 3 TRI, 2 Moly and 5 supplies. If you do
take the war to the enemies production facilities (and make certain you
don't allow such minerals to be captured), you can prevail.

 

Blackbeard.


<S. Shore, UMSHORE4@CC.UMANITOBA.CA>

On 5 Oct 1996, M.P. Soulier wrote:

: In article <533836$kj8@agate.nbnet.nb.ca>, Andrew Jones
<ASJ@gov.nb.ca> wrote: >
: > In the meantime: I agree that beams should only target oncoming
: >fighters. perhaps we could add 2 new FC's (shudder!) which would allow a
: >measure of decision-making in fighter combat:
: >
: >1) an FC ending in 0 (or maybe any even digit?) would indicate that if
: >the enemy carrier is within range, it should be the target rather than
: >the fighters.
:
:
: Absolutely. My players have been screaming for this for some

: time, as frankly, torps are not powerful enough in the high end for large
: ships to take on carriers. It's pathetic when a TL10 Fed Nova Battleship
: gets taken consistently by a TL6 Cylon Instrumentality Class ship. I
: think that's a good indication that there's something amiss. Not only
: should you have this kind of control, but torps should be more powerful
: so that mark 8 torps do more than 2% damage to the biggest ships.
:
: Also, I believe that building fighters in space should have a
: configurable cost, because getting them for free is far too powerful. At
: least if you can make the enemy pay for every fighter, it might not be
: cost effective to continue. This makes destroying his production
: facilities more damaging as well.

Great! While we're at it, let's make sure that Tech 10 ships can never be
beaten by anything less!

In case you hadn't noticed, this is a game of strategy. This means that
the player with the biggest, baddest, meanest ships won't always win.
Also, free fighters in space is a "race advantage", meaning that a player
who uses this race gets an advantage *in this area*, while the other
players get advantages in other areas. I mean, if you want to take all
the strategy out of the game and make all the races identical, play chess
or something... this game isn't for you.

S. Shore | umshore4@cc.umanitoba.ca
Engineering I | apj494@freenet.mb.ca
****
"Do not go gentle into that good night /
Rage, rage against the dying of the light."


<Mike Lemon, MDL@INTERPATH.COM>

Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:
>souliemp@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (M.P. Soulier) wrote:

>> Also, I believe that building fighters in space should have a
>>configurable cost, because getting them for free is far too powerful. At
>>least if you can make the enemy pay for every fighter, it might not be
>>cost effective to continue. This makes destroying his production
>>facilities more damaging as well.

>They are not free - they cost 3 TRI, 2 Moly and 5 supplies. If you do
>take the war to the enemies production facilities (and make certain you
>don't allow such minerals to be captured), you can prevail.

A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
ship limit has been reached. Money can't be made in such quantities.
Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.
It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
they have a much shorter range.

On top of this, the big carriers all belong to races which have either
free fighters (Robots,Rebels,Empire,Colonies) or loads of supplies/MC
(Borg) to buy them with. Only the Borg have a battleship of
comparable mass.

Mike Lemon
mdl@interpath.com


<???, BIOMENACED@AOL.COM>

In article
<Pine.SOL.3.91.961008095026.8553B-100000@castor.cc.umanitoba.ca>, "S.
Shore" <umshore4@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:

>In case you hadn't noticed, this is a game of strategy. This means that
>the player with the biggest, baddest, meanest ships won't always win.
>Also, free fighters in space is a "race advantage", meaning that a player

>who uses this race gets an advantage *in this area*, while the other
>players get advantages in other areas. I mean, if you want to take all
>the strategy out of the game and make all the races identical, play chess

>or something... this game isn't for you.

But the races with the "biggest, baddest, meanest ships" usually do
win(privateers are exempt from this). So the birdmen can cloak. When they
come out of cloak they still lose. The only way the birdmen win is when
they team up with a fighter race.
The only way to negate this advantage is either to use phost with beam hit
fighter charge at 275 or use an alternative ship list which makes the
fighter races weaker or the torp races stronger.

BioMenace

P.S. There is plenty of strategy in chess.


<???, THARDING@FOX.NSTN.CA>

biomenaced@aol.com (BioMenaced) wrote:

>In article
><Pine.SOL.3.91.961008095026.8553B-100000@castor.cc.umanitoba.ca>, "S.
>Shore" <umshore4@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:

>>who uses this race gets an advantage *in this area*, while the other
>>players get advantages in other areas. I mean, if you want to take all
>>the strategy out of the game and make all the races identical, play chess

>But the races with the "biggest, baddest, meanest ships" usually do
>win(privateers are exempt from this). So the birdmen can cloak. When they
>come out of cloak they still lose. The only way the birdmen win is when
>they team up with a fighter race.
>The only way to negate this advantage is either to use phost with beam hit
>fighter charge at 275 or use an alternative ship list which makes the
>fighter races weaker or the torp races stronger.

>BioMenace

>P.S. There is plenty of strategy in chess.

Well now,

I've played fighter races a lot, and I tell you that <S.Shore> is
right on the money.

If you think fighter races are so hot, then stop complaining
about them and play them. As a matter of fact, I'm so tired of the
monster ship in the other guys face strategy, as required by the
fighter race abilities, that I've given them up and gone to play the
Fascists.

Of course you realize that if you give cheap fighters to the torp
races, or ineffective fighters to the fighter races, then the fighter
guys are just going to lobby for all the goodies they don't have ...
it won't stop, and before you know it ...
we'll have Virgos with Cloaking ability (in Ion Storms too), which
require only *TWO* Engines, a glory device and can Pillage. They'll
want 30:1 ground combat factors, 200% mining rate, and Super Refit
Capability.

And what is the sense in that??

It will ruin the game. (IMHO)

The bottom line is: Play what you like best, Cloaker, Torps or
Fighters. Enjoy the game. Don't ruin it by homogenizing it ( AKA
STARS!).

That's the way it looks from here ...


<Shawn Kenny, KENNYSP@NEWTON.TUNS.CA>

Yea, right! wrote:
>
> biomenaced@aol.com (BioMenaced) wrote:
>
> >In article
> ><Pine.SOL.3.91.961008095026.8553B-100000@castor.cc.umanitoba.ca>, "S.
> >Shore" <umshore4@CC.UManitoba.CA> writes:
>
> >>who uses this race gets an advantage *in this area*, while the other
> >>players get advantages in other areas. I mean, if you want to take all
> >>the strategy out of the game and make all the races identical, play chess
>
> >But the races with the "biggest, baddest, meanest ships" usually do
> >win(privateers are exempt from this). So the birdmen can cloak. When they
> >come out of cloak they still lose. The only way the birdmen win is when
> >they team up with a fighter race.
> >The only way to negate this advantage is either to use phost with beam hit
> >fighter charge at 275 or use an alternative ship list which makes the
> >fighter races weaker or the torp races stronger.
>
> >BioMenace
>
> >P.S. There is plenty of strategy in chess.
>
> Well now,
>
> I've played fighter races a lot, and I tell you that <S.Shore> is
> right on the money.
>
> If you think fighter races are so hot, then stop complaining

> about them and play them.

I agree. I have been playing both fighter and torp based races and
I don't see a difference if you play the races according to their
advantages. In 1 game I am playing, the top races at turn 98 are
Priv (6718), Fed (4737) and me the Fascist (4211) and the Colonies
(2270). In another game at turn 60, I am the Borg (2681), Fed (1691)
Colonial (1597), Rebel (1465) and Lizard (1439). I don't know of any
race in the game which is ideal for a bludgeon-ahead tactics against a
decent player with tactics and strategy but I guess the Robots come
close if you have the fuel. The Feds are probably the best torp based
race with the combination of Thor frigates, Kittyhawk carriers, Missouri
and Dreadnoughts, super refit and air conditioning. For carrier races I
would prefer the Colonies and Robots. I would play the Empire all the
time except for the non-ability to build fighters in space. The best
race overall, if played well, I think is the Privateers. Though a well
played Lizard or fed would severly cramp their style.

anyway I'll stop my rambling

Shawn


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

mdl@interpath.com (Mike Lemon) wrote:

>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:

>>They (ftrs) are not free - they cost 3 TRI, 2 Moly and 5 supplies. If you do
>>take the war to the enemies production facilities (and make certain you
>>don't allow such minerals to be captured), you can prevail.

>A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
>ship limit has been reached.

Making minerals requires vulnerable alchemy ships, and is only really
viable within secure territory.
Cloaking races can (and will) target such ships, if they can.

> Money can't be made in such quantities.

But natives will usually hand large sums over with a little
encouragement...

>Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.

The cost of either is not usually important after the ship limit is
reached, but torp races do generally have an advantage in logistics -
any torp race can make torps in space, and only require 3 cargo bay
space (1 of each mineral) to make each torpedo.
The fighter races that can make fighters need 10 cargo bay space to make
each fighter.
Fighters (or torps) made in bulk back at home are virtually worthless.
The challenge is to have them available where they are needed.

>It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
>less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
>they have a much shorter range.

Quite true (but do bear in mind that the fighters are used faster than
torps).
A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

Blackbeard.


<Larry Chang, LARRYC@NETVIGATOR.COM>

Mike Lemon wrote:
>
> A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
> ship limit has been reached. Money can't be made in such quantities.
> Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
> fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.
> It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
> less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
> they have a much shorter range.
>
> On top of this, the big carriers all belong to races which have either
> free fighters (Robots,Rebels,Empire,Colonies) or loads of supplies/MC
> (Borg) to buy them with. Only the Borg have a battleship of
> comparable mass.
>
> Mike Lemon
> mdl@interpath.com

A good player will also take advantage of the race he is playing. When
playing the Feds, he will have plenty of MCs to build lots of MarkVIII and
lots of huge mines. A good Lizard will take out planets by ground force.
A good Birdman will send batches of cloak ships to where the fighter race
unexpects most.... and so on.

The Empire gets only 5 free fighter. That translates to 500MC/base. This
is not a lot. Both the Rebels and the Colonies have virtually no other
good battleship. And a Battlestar / Rush is not cheap. Both needs lots
of engines, and if they tow their big ship, a huge mine will demobolize their
fleet.

The best fighter building ship for the Robot is the Golem baseship. Their next
best fighter building ship is the Q-tanker (12 fighters/turn). This is still a
lot. But you actually have only one race that is stronger than the other.

Larry


<Pazi, PAZI@TO.ICL.FI>

Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk wrote:
>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
enabled, right? So far my simulated scenarions have proven
less satisfying... :(

-zi


<Mike Lemon, MDL@INTERPATH.COM>

Larry Chang <larryc@netvigator.com> wrote:
>Mike Lemon wrote:
>>
>> A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
>> ship limit has been reached. Money can't be made in such quantities.
>> Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>> fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.
>> It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
>> less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
>> they have a much shorter range.

>A good player will also take advantage of the race he is playing. When
>playing the Feds, he will have plenty of MCs to build lots of MarkVIII and
>lots of huge mines. A good Lizard will take out planets by ground force.

>A good Birdman will send batches of cloak ships to where the fighter race
>unexpects most.... and so on.

Of course, but that still doesn't address the money factor for torp
races. The Lizards and Feds (possibly the Klingons) will probably
have the money, but the Birds and Crystals are screwed.

>The Empire gets only 5 free fighter. That translates to 500MC/base. This
>is not a lot. Both the Rebels and the Colonies have virtually no other
>good battleship. And a Battlestar / Rush is not cheap. Both needs lots
>of engines, and if they tow their big ship, a huge mine will demobolize their
>fleet.

All the Empire has to do is build a lot of bases with some H-Ross
carriers to distribute the fighters to the big production bases. Once
the ship limit is reached, theEmpire can quickly turn the

fighter-bases into actual production bases. Sure the carriers aren't
cheap, but their big expense is _minerals_ not money. Minerals can be
made. Lots of freighters is the key to any economy, and the fighter
races can build more because they don't need a 2:1 numerical advantage
to fend off attacks like the torp races do.

Mike Lemon
mdl@interpath.com


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

pazi@to.icl.fi (pazi) wrote:

>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

> For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
> enabled, right? So far my simulated scenarions have proven
> less satisfying... :(

'Fraid so. You need the fed crew bonus (to get extra bays / mass), and
about 50% E-S bonus (the Thor and Kitty need to get to an effective hull
mass of 320kT to reduce fighter damage).

Of course, only a real sadist would disable the fed crew bonus...

Blackbeard.


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

pazi@to.icl.fi (pazi) wrote:

>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

> For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
> enabled, right? So far my simulated scenarions have proven
> less satisfying... :(

'Fraid so. You need the fed crew bonus (to get extra bays / mass), and
about 50% E-S bonus (the Thor and Kitty need to get to an effective hull
mass of 320kT to reduce fighter damage).

Of course, only a real sadist would disable the fed crew bonus...

 

Blackbeard.


<Mike Lemon, MDL@INTERPATH.COM>

Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:
>mdl@interpath.com (Mike Lemon) wrote:
>>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:
>>>They (ftrs) are not free - they cost 3 TRI, 2 Moly and 5 supplies. If you do
>>>take the war to the enemies production facilities (and make certain you
>>>don't allow such minerals to be captured), you can prevail.

>>A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
>>ship limit has been reached.

>Making minerals requires vulnerable alchemy ships, and is only really
>viable within secure territory.

True enough, but the fact that it can be done is the difference.

>Cloaking races can (and will) target such ships, if they can.

Absolutely, and this strategy is most effective after the ship limit
has been reached. Unfortunately, roaming Resolutes around enemy
territory is a minor inconvience compared to a fleet of 3-4 Rushes
rampaging through one's home area.

>> Money can't be made in such quantities.

>But natives will usually hand large sums over with a little
>encouragement...

Define large. The Feds and Lizards usually have plenty of money due
to race attributes. They also, ironically, have the best ships for
dealing with fighter carriers. The Birds and Crystals have no such

advantages. For these races, finding a planet which will produce
2500-3000 MC a turn is a rare treat. More likely is 500-800 mc/turn
planet, which means it takes two of these too build a Darkwing every
turn. This doesn't take into account the fact that the two darkwings
(plus torps) it takes to kill a Rush cost more money-wise than _two_
Rushes.

>>Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>>fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.

>The cost of either is not usually important after the ship limit is
>reached, but torp races do generally have an advantage in logistics -
>any torp race can make torps in space, and only require 3 cargo bay
>space (1 of each mineral) to make each torpedo.

Sure it takes less cargo space, but one has to carry money. Not

normally a big deal, but it can make losing the ship quite costly. It
is far easier to implement a scorched earth policy egainst a torp-race
attack, as one only needs to scrounge the money from the planet to
keep the other from building torps with captured resources. For a
fighter-builder, scorched earth means removing all of either the
tritanium or moly from the planets surface. This can be an impossible
task for a big base planet with large mineral stores--the exact
planets that will be targeted by a fighter-race offensive.

>The fighter races that can make fighters need 10 cargo bay space to make
>each fighter.
>Fighters (or torps) made in bulk back at home are virtually worthless.
>The challenge is to have them available where they are needed.

True, but a torp-race doesn't kill enough fighters in an assault to
make a difference. 30-40 for a Darkwing. Two turns for a Rush,
during which time the 3 Rush fleet is still killing planets/ships
while the third one builds some replacements.

>>It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
>>less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
>>they have a much shorter range.

>Quite true (but do bear in mind that the fighters are used faster than
>torps).

Only against another carrier or a planet, where there are defending
fighters.

>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

But direct confrontation is exactly what the fighter-race is going to
force. The only hindrance the torp race can provide is mines--which
means even more money. (As an aside, a thor is useless without
engine-shield bonus).

In the end, the torp race is _always_ going to lose a ship killing a
full-strength carrier.

Mike Lemon
mdl@interpath.com


<Pazi, PAZI@TO.ICL.FI>

Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk wrote:
>pazi@to.icl.fi (pazi) wrote:
>> For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
>> enabled, right?
>'Fraid so. You need the fed crew bonus (to get extra bays / mass), and
>about 50% E-S bonus

Bummer. The game I'm in only has the crew bonus on. I guess
I'm not going to have much use for Thor's then. The Kittys
are nice against the other race's carriers, though (only
Liz, Priv and Fascist involved anymore, so I'm not likely
to encounter anything big :)

-zi


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

mdl@interpath.com (Mike Lemon) wrote:

>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:
>>mdl@interpath.com (Mike Lemon) wrote:

> Unfortunately, roaming Resolutes around enemy
>territory is a minor inconvience compared to a fleet of 3-4 Rushes
>rampaging through one's home area.

Roaming Resolutes can do a lot of damage in their own right. Taking down
freighters and speciality ships is not to be sniffed at (but personally,
I would rather have those Rushes, though ;)

Urk, Birds vs Rebels. That has to be the hardest fight :(

>>> Money can't be made in such quantities.

>>But natives will usually hand large sums over with a little
>>encouragement...

>Define large. The Feds and Lizards usually have plenty of money due
>to race attributes. They also, ironically, have the best ships for
>dealing with fighter carriers. The Birds and Crystals have no such
>advantages. For these races, finding a planet which will produce
>2500-3000 MC a turn is a rare treat. More likely is 500-800 mc/turn
>planet, which means it takes two of these too build a Darkwing every
>turn. This doesn't take into account the fact that the two darkwings
>(plus torps) it takes to kill a Rush cost more money-wise than _two_
>Rushes.

I regard the birds and xtals as rather special cases - the other torp
races should be OK in money terms. I quite agree here, though. If they
have to operate alone, the birds in particular are poorly placed to do
well in a straight fight, needing money to build and operate their
ships, and facing a rotten kill ratio if they have to accept a carrier
battle.

>>>Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>>>fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.

>>The cost of either is not usually important after the ship limit is
>>reached, but torp races do generally have an advantage in logistics -
>>any torp race can make torps in space, and only require 3 cargo bay
>>space (1 of each mineral) to make each torpedo.

>Sure it takes less cargo space, but one has to carry money. Not
>normally a big deal, but it can make losing the ship quite costly.

Thats the way to go. Bring money with you (and keep the ship(s) carrying
it out of battle!)

> It is far easier to implement a scorched earth policy against a torp-race
>attack, as one only needs to scrounge the money from the planet to
>keep the other from building torps with captured resources. For a
>fighter-builder, scorched earth means removing all of either the
>tritanium or moly from the planets surface. This can be an impossible
>task for a big base planet with large mineral stores--the exact
>planets that will be targeted by a fighter-race offensive.

Only if they know where to strike. Unless they have some intel (from the
empire?), they may have to search for their targets.

Difficult or not, regard it as essential. If you don't use scorched
earth against free-fighter races, expect to be rolled off the map. Even
then, the rebels have the particulalry unpleasant ability to use falcons
to ship in whatever you try to deprive them of.

Incidentally, removing fuel is necessary too (and can be quite effective
at delaying carriers).

>... but a torp-race doesn't kill enough fighters in an assault to
>make a difference. 30-40 for a Darkwing. Two turns for a Rush,
>during which time the 3 Rush fleet is still killing planets/ships
>while the third one builds some replacements.

You should be making the invaders take on defended starbases, which will
chew a healthy number of fighters (and do serious damage to a carrier).
A battleship backed by a planet usually gets you a kill.

Sadly, this doesn't work too well vs the rebels, who can't be forced
into battle against a planet...

>>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).

>But direct confrontation is exactly what the fighter-race is going to
>force. The only hindrance the torp race can provide is mines--which
>means even more money.

They can often provide some more direct harassment using cloaked ships,
especially if raceplus advantages are available.

> (As an aside, a thor is useless without engine-shield bonus).

Actually, it is still quite a good frigate - it just becomes useless
against a carrier. Don't try the thor-kitty example without the crew
bonus and a 50% ES bonus.

>In the end, the torp race is _always_ going to lose a ship killing a
>full-strength carrier.

A fair exchange, usually. Just be sure to wreck the enemy economy in
return...

Blackbeard.


<Larry Chang, LARRYC@NETVIGATOR.COM>

Mike Lemon wrote:
> Define large. The Feds and Lizards usually have plenty of money due
>o race attributes. They also, ironically, have the best ships for
> dealing with fighter carriers. The Birds and Crystals have no such
> advantages. For these races, finding a planet which will produce
> 2500-3000 MC a turn is a rare treat. More likely is 500-800 mc/turn
> planet, which means it takes two of these too build a Darkwing every
> turn. This doesn't take into account the fact that the two darkwings
> (plus torps) it takes to kill a Rush cost more money-wise than _two_
> Rushes.

But two darkwings costs less minerals on a Rush with around 100 fighters.
And, how many planets do you need to build one Rush a turn? If you put in
low tech engine, a large minefield can slow the Rush fleet down, while the

Darkwings will be put into offensive instead. Eventually, the Rebels will
lost planets faster than the Birdmans. If the Rush are armed with Tech 8 or
Tech 10 engines, it takes more than 2 planets to build a Rush every turn.

> Sure it takes less cargo space, but one has to carry money. Not
> normally a big deal, but it can make losing the ship quite costly. It
> is far easier to implement a scorched earth policy against a torp-race
> attack, as one only needs to scrounge the money from the planet to
> keep the other from building torps with captured resources. For a
> fighter-builder, scorched earth means removing all of either the
> tritanium or moly from the planets surface. This can be an impossible
> task for a big base planet with large mineral stores--the exact
> planets that will be targeted by a fighter-race offensive.

Fighter race need supplies to build fighters. It is even easier. Just
sell all the supplies on all planets in the border and the fighter race
can build fighters in space fast enough.

> True, but a torp-race doesn't kill enough fighters in an assault to
> make a difference. 30-40 for a Darkwing. Two turns for a Rush,
> during which time the 3 Rush fleet is still killing planets/ships
> while the third one builds some replacements.

Without any supplies, the Rush will never build any fighters. Also, the Birdman
will never send a single Darkwing against a Rush. A batch of three DW. The birdman
loses 2 ship will the Rush get destroyed.

> Only against another carrier or a planet, where there are defending
> fighters.
>
> >A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
> >unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
> >destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).
>
> But direct confrontation is exactly what the fighter-race is going to
> force. The only hindrance the torp race can provide is mines--which
> means even more money. (As an aside, a thor is useless without
> engine-shield bonus).

But the torp based race aim is to prevent direct confrontation. If the fighter
race do bring in a group of huge carriers, what is left to defend? Just send out
your own batch of ships and take their planets. They don't have supplies to
build fighters. You have supply or MC, unless they ship them away.

>
> In the end, the torp race is _always_ going to lose a ship killing a
> full-strength carrier.

But the ship lost is cheaper than the full-strength carrier. And, there should
be more DW than Rushes flying around, unless the Rebel economy is much stronger.


<???, EDGEMAN100@AOL.COM>

In article <53ic2e$ltb@newsfeed.icl.fi>, pazi@to.icl.fi (pazi) writes:

>>A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>>unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>>destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).
>
> For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
> enabled, right? So far my simulated scenarions have proven
> less satisfying... :(

don't use a sim.... they aren't always reliable, especially here. But
run a manual sim - play a game where you build the ships and have them
fight eachother. you can use batch files to zip up the dir., run the
host, then unzip the archive, run the host again, unzip, run host, and so

on thus replicating the experiment. in this manner the 3 thor (and thor
kitty i think) will work against a carrier race.


<???, EDGEMAN100@AOL.COM>

In article <53j22r$2pv@redstone.interpath.net>, mdl@interpath.com (Mike
Lemon) writes:

>ang <larryc@netvigator.com> wrote:
>>Mike Lemon wrote:
>>>
>>> A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
>>> ship limit has been reached. Money can't be made in such quantities.
>>> Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>>> fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.
>>> It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
>>> less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
>>> they have a much shorter range.
>

>>A good player will also take advantage of the race he is playing. When
>>playing the Feds, he will have plenty of MCs to build lots of MarkVIII
and
>>lots of huge mines. A good Lizard will take out planets by ground
force.
>>A good Birdman will send batches of cloak ships to where the fighter
race
>>unexpects most.... and so on.
>
>Of course, but that still doesn't address the money factor for torp
>races. The Lizards and Feds (possibly the Klingons) will probably
>have the money, but the Birds and Crystals are screwed.

1) you miss out on the crystal strategy - you don't need many warships.
just webs. lots of webs. and you need lots of torps for your many large
webs. but by the endgame you should have the megacredit production to
keep it up.

2) the birds' battleship is somewhat more powerful than the
lizards/klingons/crystals' battleships.... but that's not the point. the
birds are supposed to drop out of nowhere and smash vital starbases, vital
planets, stationary alchemy/gambling/etc. ships, and freighters. they
also can "bum" the cash out of a planet if they've got 4-5 scouts present.
remember "the best defense is a good offense" - most players don't have
the cavalier attitude that they can just attack and not worry about their
home situation. they (the carrier races) have to lay big, EXPENSIVE,
minefields, which can be quickly swept.... and even then their ship
production can be cut short by a few lucky (or high-beamtech) darkwings.
eventually the carrier races have to take the offensive to smash the
birds' homes, but the birdies can tow the carriers off one by one, and
with a crippled economy, the carrier races might not keep up with the good
bird player (who of course has a lot of cash from his "bum"ming <G>).....

3) those 8 engines on the virgo are kind of expensive too....

>>The Empire gets only 5 free fighter. That translates to 500MC/base.
This
>>is not a lot. Both the Rebels and the Colonies have virtually no other
>>good battleship. And a Battlestar / Rush is not cheap. Both needs lots
>>of engines, and if they tow their big ship, a huge mine will demobolize
>their
>>fleet.
>
>All the Empire has to do is build a lot of bases with some H-Ross
>carriers to distribute the fighters to the big production bases. Once
>the ship limit is reached, the Empire can quickly turn the
remember the cost of starbases, though. but IMO the empire isn't so much
of a bash-bash-you're dead attacker, since they have other advantages (IA,
darksense), and they have to wait to get their fighters.

>fighter-bases into actual production bases. Sure the carriers aren't
>cheap, but their big expense is _minerals_ not money. Minerals can be
>made. Lots of freighters is the key to any economy, and the fighter
>races can build more because they don't need a 2:1 numerical advantage
>to fend off attacks like the torp races do.
money CAN be hard to find in some situations.... but in the endgame yes
minerals are a big problem. but i disagree with your contention that the
fighter races can somehow build more ships because they're so much more
mineral-efficient. the carrier races have to pay a lot more in minerals
for their carriers, so much so that it is often very similar equal to the
torp races' cost.


<???, EDGEMAN100@AOL.COM>

In article <53fk91$dce@news.nstn.ca>, tharding@fox.nstn.ca (Yea, right!)
writes:

>we'll have Virgos with Cloaking ability (in Ion Storms too), which
>require only *TWO* Engines, a glory device and can Pillage. They'll
>want 30:1 ground combat factors, 200% mining rate, and Super Refit
>Capability.
>
>And what is the sense in that??
>
>It will ruin the game. (IMHO)
i agree.

>The bottom line is: Play what you like best, Cloaker, Torps or
>Fighters. Enjoy the game. Don't ruin it by homogenizing it ( AKA
>STARS)
exactly!.... i agree completely. after all my stars gripes are 1) very
similar races, 2) you can't watch the battles <G>......


<???, TEVIKEN@SN.NO>

>> A direct confrontation is *not* usually to the advantage of a torp race,
>> unless they can create a situation whereby a carrier can be isolated and
>> destroyed by a cheap combo (such as the fed thor - kitty).
> For the Thor-Kitty to work the engine-shield bonus must be
> enabled, right? So far my simulated scenarions have proven
> less satisfying... :(

A Thor-Kitty Comination doesn't even damage my biocides.. :-/ Not in
the sims at least..

So, I cannot understand the logics here... :-/

Fifth Arcade


<???, TEVIKEN@SN.NO>

>Of course, but that still doesn't address the money factor for torp
>races. The Lizards and Feds (possibly the Klingons) will probably
>have the money, but the Birds and Crystals are screwed.

But the Birds is no TORPEDO race, their a CLOAKING race. All have
their advantages, and Birds advantage is their cloakers, to go deep
into enemy space, and destroy his trade lines, his freighters, his
alchemy ships.. They may strike when they want to, and may hide all
the rest of the time(!)

The Crystals!? How dare you mention that race? They have the best
minefields in the universe! Think of it, Web mine fields larger than
you may think. Your ships just stop, out of fuel, while the Crystal
captures them..

No, I don't think any of those races do have problems.. :)

Fifth Arcade


<Sjaak Zomer, ZOMERSJK@WORLDACCESS.NL>

mdl@interpath.com (Mike Lemon) wrote:

>Tony@herrflik.demon.co.uk (Blackbeard) wrote:
>>souliemp@muss.cis.McMaster.CA (M.P. Soulier) wrote:

>>> Also, I believe that building fighters in space should have a
>>>configurable cost, because getting them for free is far too powerful. At
>>>least if you can make the enemy pay for every fighter, it might not be
>>>cost effective to continue. This makes destroying his production
>>>facilities more damaging as well.

YES. Just some credits. Not much but something! 10MC will be enough to
reduce the enourmess effects of all those fighers.
Or another possibility make torps cheaper. Not much 10% will be fine.
Minerals shouldn't be any problem at all. You don't need much. Think
what you can get for 1000 factories, enough to load an entire T10
ship. (Don't counted the money). And 1000 factories are only 5-7
planets.

>>They are not free - they cost 3 TRI, 2 Moly and 5 supplies. If you do
>>take the war to the enemies production facilities (and make certain you
>>don't allow such minerals to be captured), you can prevail.

How do you get rid of minerals. I am now trying to capture planets and
sell all of the supplies. It will limit the production of fighters. If
you are fighting against a fighter race. Make sure that he hasn't
access to minerals.

>A good player can make all the minerals he needs, especially after the
>ship limit has been reached. Money can't be made in such quantities.
>Remember, 3TRI, 2Moly and 5 supplies nets out to 20 supplies per
>fighter for the fighter-builders. Mk8 torps cost over 50 supplies.
>It isn't very hard to see the inequity there, especially when Mk8's do
>less than half the damage to a big ship (>500kt) than a fighter, and
>they have a much shorter range.

If you are a fed and have got some time, you have got money. Specially
if you start building tech10 hulls, with tech1 weapons/torps/engines.
You can refit them later. But be sure to have got some mine-layers
available. I have gotten into a war before I was prepared, but I was
able to stall for time. Now I have got loads of MC and minerals.

>On top of this, the big carriers all belong to races which have either
>free fighters (Robots,Rebels,Empire,Colonies) or loads of supplies/MC
>(Borg) to buy them with. Only the Borg have a battleship of
>comparable mass.

I am playing the feds in a game, and I just got hold of some carriers.
Some silly Patriots, buts they are carriers.. Haven't built one for
myself, and now the ship limit is reached. To be honest I don't know
what to do with it!! I have got, because of the ship-limit, quite
large amounts of money now (20000+ at one of my SB). But I prefer to
build torps. When you don't have got free fighters carriers are just
useless, I think. Special against fighter-races.

>Mike Lemon
>mdl@interpath.com

=======<2.2>=========================> Ion Storms <=======================================

<Darren Herhold, DJH9155@TAM2000.TAMU.EDU>

Howdy. I am currently playing the Klingons, and I'm fighting with the
Feds. This turn, I managed to lure two of his ships out into an ion
storm by feinting with a SABER. I used the glory device and now his
MISSOURI and his NOVA are both damaged. The ion storm is at 149 MeV, and
getting stronger. He is over 81 lyears from the edge.
QUESTIONS:
Will the ion storm prevent him from successfully returning to orbit?
The docs say it will move all ships 75% of the distance it travels.
I'm outside the ion storm. Can I successfully intercept his wounded
ships? I have another SABER and VICTORIOUS ready to launch, within 81
lyears.
Can he successfully intercept his own wounded ships in the ion storm?
Will the ion storm effect ships already in orbit? I know they won't
have any shields, but will they be moved away from the planet?

Finally, how does one generally use an ion storm to their advantage. I
know they are great for hiding mines (heh, heh), but has anyone out there

come up with a real clever way to use them while attacking or defending?

Thanks in advance.

djh9155@tam2000.tamu.edu (Darren Herhold)


<Wijbrand Pauw, WIJBRAND@STUDENT.UTWENTE.NL>

>Howdy. I am currently playing the Klingons, and I'm fighting with the
>Feds. This turn, I managed to lure two of his ships out into an ion
>storm by feinting with a SABER. I used the glory device and now his
>MISSOURI and his NOVA are both damaged. The ion storm is at 149 MeV, and
>getting stronger. He is over 81 lyears from the edge.
>QUESTIONS:
> Will the ion storm prevent him from successfully returning to orbit?

Yes it will unless he has a cloaked MBR or something to tow them. With a storm
moving at warp 6 (36LY's) and a ship moving against the storm at warp 9 (81
LY) you could travel max 45 LY's, but you also have to think about the angle
between the storm and you ship.

>The docs say it will move all ships 75% of the distance it travels.

> I'm outside the ion storm. Can I successfully intercept his wounded
>ships? I have another SABER and VICTORIOUS ready to launch, within 81
>lyears.
> Can he successfully intercept his own wounded ships in the ion storm?
> Will the ion storm effect ships already in orbit? I know they won't
>have any shields, but will they be moved away from the planet?

In level 4 or 5 storm's it is rather hard to intercept, I tried it a few times
but without to much succes. Ship's will be blown of planets but it depends on
the mass of the ship and I even believe the mass of the planet (i.e. minerals
already mined etc)

>

>Finally, how does one generally use an ion storm to their advantage. I
>know they are great for hiding mines (heh, heh), but has anyone out there
>come up with a real clever way to use them while attacking or defending?

Not clever, but I am in a storm together with the fascists, biocide's won't
take any damage in the storm (to heavy) and the fascist have mostly very light

ships, so they will suffer damage. Just wait at the edge of the storm untill
the damaged ships come out. At the other side of the storm you can take all
the planets, because you know that there won't be ships to defend them.
They are also very nice to travel fast (at least with the big ships because
they won't be damaged). You can travel 117 Ly's in a warp 6 storm, there is
little change you can be attacked in the storm so you can savely travel a
large distance, you must be very careful with your fuel though, you won't get
a change to refuel on a planet or something!


wijbrand@student.utwente.nl (Wijbrand Pauw)


<???, TLLOPIS@FLASH.NET>

>>Finally, how does one generally use an ion storm to their advantage.
I know they are great for hiding mines (heh, heh), but has anyone out
there
>>come up with a real clever way to use them while attacking or
defending?

How bout using one to drift a fleet deep into enemy territory and then

drop out in his soft underbelly. The borg can exploit this really well
by using fireclouds to then bring in supplies and more ships. in the
mean time start an invasion on his main front... A war on two fronts
is better than one... :)

Pheonix

tllopis@flash.net (Pheonix)

=======<2.3>=========================> Mine Sweeping <====================

Here's an interesting question asked on the NG, and the answers that go
with it, enjoy.


<Steve Beresh, BERESH@MARVIN.AE.UTEXAS.EDU>

If I have two ships just inside the border of a minefield, and
both are set to minesweep, which of the following will happen:

1) Each ship sweeps up its quantity of mines, then the size of
the minefield is shrunk appropriately.

or

2) The first ship sweeps its mines, the minefield shrinks, and
now the second ship is no longer within the minefield's borders
and cannot sweep its quantity of mines.

I checked the order of operations in Infolist, but it isn't
detailed enough on this matter to answer.
mine sweeping question

Thanks.

--Steve

--
******************************************************************
Steve Beresh *
Dept of Aerospace Engineering * "I hate quotations."
University of Texas at Austin * --Ralph Waldo Emerson
beresh@cfdlab.ae.utexas.edu *
******************************************************************


<Allan Gray, WAG@ISLANDNET.COM>

Steve Beresh wrote:
>
> If I have two ships just inside the border of a minefield, and
> both are set to minesweep, which of the following will happen:
>
> 1) Each ship sweeps up its quantity of mines, then the size of
> the minefield is shrunk appropriately.
>
> or
>
> 2) The first ship sweeps its mines, the minefield shrinks, and
> now the second ship is no longer within the minefield's borders
> and cannot sweep its quantity of mines.
>
> I checked the order of operations in Infolist, but it isn't
> detailed enough on this matter to answer.
>
> Thanks.
>

I'm not sure about this one either. But I think the 2nd option would be
more along the lines of what I've experienced (in 3.22.005) with the
first ship chosen by race ID/ship ID.


<Jan Huijsmans, HUYSMANS@PI.NET>

Steve Beresh wrote:
>
> If I havewo ships just inside the border of a minefield, and
> both are set to minesweep, which of the following will happen:
>
> 1) Each ship sweeps up its quantity of mines, then the size of
> the minefield is shrunk appropriately.
>
> or
>
> 2) The first ship sweeps its mines, the minefield shrinks, and
> now the second ship is no longer within the minefield's borders
> and cannot sweep its quantity of mines.
>
> I checked the order of operations in Infolist, but it isn't
> detailed enough on this matter to answer.

2 will happen, were the ship will sweep in ID order.
So when another race is also sweeping the field and has a
ship with the lowest ID, you won't sweep 1 mine.

--

Jan Huijsmans J.Huijsmans@sara.nl
huysmans@xs4all.nl
huysmans@pi.net


<Andrew Jones, ASJ@GOV.NB.CA>

beresh@marvin.ae.utexas.edu (Steve Beresh) wrote:
>If I have two ships just inside the border of a minefield, and
>both are set to minesweep, which of the following will happen:
>
>1) Each ship sweeps up its quantity of mines, then the size of
>the minefield is shrunk appropriately.
>
>or
>
>2) The first ship sweeps its mines, the minefield shrinks, and
>now the second ship is no longer within the minefield's borders
>and cannot sweep its quantity of mines.
>
>I checked the order of operations in Infolist, but it isn't
>detailed enough on this matter to answer.
>
The latter.


<Rowan Dunch, ROWDY@GEKO.NET.AU>

beresh@marvin.ae.utexas.edu (Steve Beresh) wrote:
>If I have two ships just inside the border of a minefield, and
>both are set to minesweep, which of the following will happen:

The lowest ID ship will sweep first, then the minefield will shrink,
then the next ship will sweep etc.

=======<2.4>=========================> Which Freighters to use? >=========

<???, BEMO@ECLIPSE.CO.UK>

Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
amount of cargo.
Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
it varies for specific tasks)?

**********************************************************
Ben Morrish (bemo@eclipse.co.uk)
"Quantity has a quality all of its own" -Stalin
Check out my website at
http://www.eclipse.co.uk/~as5420/index.htm
**************************************************************


<Genya, TSENTALOVICH@AESIR.MIT.EDU>

Lazarus wrote:
> Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
> to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
> Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
> freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
> amount of cargo.
> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
> vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
> it varies for specific tasks)?

Small Freighters are absolutely useless, except as scrape ships
for Priority Points.
Medium Freighters are of little use, exceprt the very beginning
of the game. They become useful though with Raceplus. Without Raceplus
- don't bother to build them.
Large Freighter is the freighter of choise!
Super Freighter has it limited use, but 2 LF usually are better
(more flexibility). Some limited number of SF won't hurt though.
S.Snake


<Allan Gray, WAG@ISLANDNET.COM>

Lazarus wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
> to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
> Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo sace, medium
> freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
> amount of cargo.
> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
> vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
> it varies for specific tasks)?

Go for the Large freighters all the way. 2 cost a little more than a
Super Freighter with about the same cargo space, but you have 2 ships to
navigate space instead of one. I would only build a medium in the early
exploration part of the game, but they're basically only good for
transporting money. And 2 mediums come nowhere near close to one Large.


<???, BIOMENACED@AOL.COM>

In article <32657951.6C20@aesir.mit.edu>, Genya
<tsentalovich@aesir.mit.edu> writes:

> Medium Freighters are of little use, exceprt the very beginning
>of the game. They become useful though with Raceplus. Without Raceplus
>- don't bother to build them.

Whats the point of using them if you have raceplus?

Also, I do have some uses for medium and small. The medium freighters are
very good for colonizing and the smalls are great deep space listening
posts.


<Mike Lemon, MDL@INTERPATH.COM>

bemo@eclipse.co.uk (Lazarus) wrote:

>Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
>to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
>Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
>freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
>amount of cargo.
> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
>vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
>it varies for specific tasks)?

Large freighters only, and gobs of them. You should build an LF every
turn for the first ten turns or so, using them to colonize planets
your original ships have scouted out. You might build a medium ship
for protection one turn if you have an aggressive enemy nearby, but
don't bother with escorts early, but normally I don't start building
warships until I have a second base to build LF's.

I never have fewer than 25-30 LF's when the ship limit is reached.
This is a lesson I learned the hard way. My rule is at least 3 LF's
for each base, plus more for continous heavy colonization and colonist
transfer. Once the ship limit hits, the LF's can also be used to
build subsidiary bases near big bases with lots of minerals sitting
around.

There might be a few instances when super freighters are useful, such
as chunneling clans to outer sector, or sending a bunch through a
wormhole. In these situations, one ship uses half the fuel of two
ships, making a SF worthwhile as a wormhole or chunnel shuttle. As a
base-support or colonization freighter, it doesn't compare to the LF.

Mike Lemon
mdl@interpath.com


<Mark Conway, MARK.CONWAY@PENLLAN.DEMON.CO.UK>

In article <543b7q$9rq@pub.news.uk.psi.net>, Lazarus
<bemo@eclipse.co.uk> writes
Hi,

>Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
>to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
>Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
>freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
>amount of cargo.
> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
>vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
>it varies for specific tasks)?

Personaly, I use almost exclusively medium freighters. I have one MF for
every planet to ship minerals & MCs back to my starbase. I also use them
for colonizing. They don't hold as much as large freighters, but they

carry enough to make it worth while & use less fuel. The only time I use
LFs is for colonizing planets where I'm planning to build a starbase. As
for super freighters, I only use them for the jumpgate addon.

BTW, I've only played a few games, so my tactics probably aren't the
best. :)

--
Mark Conway


<???, TONY@HERRFLIK.DEMON.CO.UK>

Mark Conway <mark.conway@penllan.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <543b7q$9rq@pub.news.uk.psi.net>, Lazarus
><bemo@eclipse.co.uk> writes
>Hi,

>>Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
>>to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
>>Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
>>freighters are cheap (only 1 engine)

small or medium - good for exploring, and better than waiting if you're
strapped for the resources to build a LF. Generally, too small to be
worth the bother.
(actually, the colonies cobol makes a good MF).

> while large ones carry a decent amount of cargo.

Always the backbone of my freighter fleets.

>> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
>>vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
>>it varies for specific tasks)?

I don't normally use them - too big to use efficiently, and also rather
a lot of eggs to stick in one basket.

>Personaly, I use almost exclusively medium freighters. I have one MF for
>every planet to ship minerals & MCs back to my starbase. I also use them
>for colonizing. They don't hold as much as large freighters, but they
>carry enough to make it worth while & use less fuel.

Just a quick comment here - MFs carry 200 cargo, but you have to ship
60kT of dead weight (the hull).
LFs carry 1200 for 120kT of dead weight - provided you fill them to at
least 1/3 full, they are actually more efficient in fuel.

Blackbeard.


<Shawn Kenny, KENNYSP@NEWTON.TUNS.CA>

Blackbeard wrote:
>
> Mark Conway <mark.conway@penllan.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >In article <543b7q$9rq@pub.news.uk.psi.net>, Lazarus
> ><bemo@eclipse.co.uk> writes
> > while large ones carry a decent amount of cargo.
>
> Always the backbone of my freighter fleets.
>
> >> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
> >>vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
> >>it varies for specific tasks)?
>
> I don't normally use them - too big to use efficiently, and also rather
> a lot of eggs to stick in one basket.
>

I agree. The LDSF should be the core of the transport/logistics fleet arm
with the odd few STF if you are lucky enough to have a few planets which are
turning out alot of minerals. Obviously if it is possible then you should
planet-hop with the freighters or better bring some escorts to protect
the "convoy" especially against cloaked races. Laying minefields in the
freighters path is also an option.

Shawn


<Sean, KIMBALL@SCI.FI>

bemo@eclipse.co.uk (Lazarus) wrote:
>
> Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
> to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?
> Small ones are ruled out because they have pitiful cargo space, medium
> freighters are cheap (only 1 engine) while large ones carry a decent
> amount of cargo.
> Super freighters carry over double that, but need 4 engines and are
> vulnerable. Which is the best type to go for (generally- I know that
> it varies for specific tasks)?

I've played in about 7 games, and I've built TWO Super freighters.
Have I screwed up or what:-? My freighter fleets usually consist
of a few mediums, and the rest are Large freighters. Comments?

http://www.sci.fi/~kimball


<???, BEMO@ECLIPSE.CO.UK>

>bemo@eclipse.co.uk (Lazarus) wrote:
>> Does anyone have any opinions on which sort of freighter is the best
>> to form the bulk of your cargo fleet?

My own view is that large freighters should form the main bulk of the
cargo fleet- they can carry enough to set up 1 good colony. I think
medium freighters in small numbers are good for shipping minerals from
colonies to nearby starbases, especially when you don't have quite
enough of one mineral to build that mighty ship you've been waiting
for. I think Super freighters are good for setting up colonies on
potential starbase worlds, so I'd go for approximately 4-5 Large to 1
Super and 1 medium. And of couse, small freighters are not worth
having at all, unles you want to scout and do not have any proper
scout ships.

**********************************************************
Ben Morrish (bemo@eclipse.co.uk)
"Quantity has a quality all of its own" -Stalin
Check out my website at
http://www.eclipse.co.uk/~as5420/index.htm
**************************************************************

=======<2.5>=========================> General Colonization Tips <========

<Mike Lemon, MDL@WORLD.STD.COM>

Here's a discussion question following the thread of how many colonists
it takes to properly build up a planet.

My theory of expansion and colonization is based on three principles:

1) Stake out the territory you want as soon as possible.
2) Develop good planets quickly into bases.
3) Concentrate on economics and defense, then go on the offensive.

Rule 1 is best accomplished with small, armed (preferably with torps)
scout ships which drop one clan on all planets (except amorphs) which
are in the territory you want to claim. The armament is mainly for
defense against predatory neighbors. Diplomacy is the preferred method
of moving neighboring races off of planets you want.

While your scout ships are claiming planets, mark ones that look like
promising bases. Primary concerns are bovinoids, advantageous tech
natives, number of other planets in vicinity, and strategic location.
Bovinoids are always primary base candidates unless climate is a

problem (this is the Crystals main racial advantage). Ghipsoldal
planets are next in importance as the monetary costs of beginning
transwarp freighter production are much less. Humanoids with good
tax rates are great planet starters. It doesn't really matter how
mineral-rich the planet is since hull tech begins at ten and a Merlin
can be built immediately. You may have to ship those minerals in,
and you will want your factories to be as high as possible. The only
other concern about base placement is money. Money is easy to ship,
but your cash cow for your base should be within 1 months warp 9
travel.

Starting planets requires colonists and supplies. I like at least
100 colonists on any planet worth mining. This allows 100 factories
and enough mines to get the minerals in a reasonable time frame. In
addition, base-support planets need to generate lots of supplies to
provide minerals and/or money for the base once the planet minerals

are exhausted. It also provides enough defensive punch to discourage
roving scout ships from causing trouble. Two large freighters, one
carrying colonists and the other supplies/minerals will start a base
and its supporting planets. One returns immediately to home world
while the other transfers minerals/money until the starbase and an
base-support freighter have been constructed.

Not being a big fan of wasting resources on freighters, I like to
keep just a few sets of LF's to setup starbases until my economy
is self-sustaining. Then they are used to bring up colonists
behind an offensive to create supporting starbases in captured
territory.

All of this falls under the last principle which is creating a solid
economy before undergoing serious ship building. Some will scoff and
predict destruction when the ship limit is built, but my experience
has been that if you start serious shipbuilding when you can build a
full-strength battleship/carrier per turn at your major bases and a

full-strength supporting ship per turn at your other bases, you will
be way ahead of the those who build fleet-class ships too early.
Home defense is necessary, and you will need a low engine defensive
ship or two, but the rest of your fleet should be multi-purpose ships
which can provide economic support now, and fleet support later.

Comments?

Mike Lemon
mdl@world.std.com


<Bob, BOBW726514@AOL.COM>

Do not waste resources on ships with slow engines, unless they are to
remain in orbit,(as a merlin or refinery ship, or terra-forming ships).
Colonize as many planets as possible and as quickly as possible.... zoom
up to a planet, drop 10 clans & 4 supplies and move on to the next.
Convert the supplies into 3 crds and build a factory the next turn.... the
planet will grow without additional ships coming in. Send more colonists
to planets that will be productive based on temp & natives. Build
factories as your resources allow and as many as possible.... build mines
next, (although I always build at least one mine right away).

Do not waste effort on chasing other ships early on and build only a few
capital ships for defense till you are heavy in planets and assets....

mostly you will find your own style of play.... everyone does. The name
of the game is "kick-butt and take names".... prepare yourself and your
planets for all out war and wage one.

BOB


<Martin Jennings, THOMERC@DXCERN.CERN.CH>

In article <3799ek$dld@newsbf01.news.aol.com>,
bobw726514@aol.com (BobW726514) writes:
}In article <918.129.uupcb@sstff.mn.org>, richard.wegener@sstff.mn.org
}(Richard Wegener) writes:
}
[ snip ]
}
}Do not waste resources on ships with slow engines, unless they are to
}remain in orbit,(as a merlin or refinery ship, or terra-forming ships).

Sometimes this is not possible, especially when you consider the larger
carriers of the fighter races.
(Hint for fighter-races)
If Engine-shield bonus is not on, consider building a large carrier with
stardrive 1's as soon as possible, this ship can always be towed into
battle. Later on, you could always trade it to the Feds, or ask them to
upgrade it for you.

Otherwise, good engines to put on a large carrier, if you are short on
minerals or money for those Transwarp engines, are Quantum Drive 7's,
same minerals as a HeavyNova Drive 6, all right more expensive, but I
find them rather cost-effective.
(Hint for all)
If you have the Tech, use Merlins and Refinery ships as gun platforms,
and even as assault vessels. I must admit that a Heavy Phaser armed
Alchemy ship, with Transwarp engines is nice to see.
Remember that terra-forming ships have to move every so often, so do
build some with Transwarp engines. They can also be used as tugs, though
their fuel tanks are a bit small. If all three of the terraformers had
tanks >= 250 kt's this would certainly turn them into better ships, and
make the Onyx an excellent ship.

}Colonize as many planets as possible and as quickly as possible.... zoom
}up to a planet, drop 10 clans & 4 supplies and move on to the next.

Here I disagree on the number of clans to drop. On a temperate-warm world,

you need 15 clans to start to reproduce, while on a temperate-cool or
tropical world, you drop 20.
This means that you will not have to send an extra ship carrying more clans,
saves fuel and liberates a ship for other work.

}Convert the supplies into 3 crds and build a factory the next turn.... the
}planet will grow without additional ships coming in. Send more colonists
}to planets that will be productive based on temp & natives. Build
}factories as your resources allow and as many as possible.... build mines
}next, (although I always build at least one mine right away).

As for the supplies to drop, well I prefer to drop 16, this means that you
will be able to build at least one new factory every turn
Your method means that it will be 9/10 turns before you start to build a
new factory every turn (4 or more factories), while by that time the
other planet will already have almost 30 factories, or perhaps even a
defence post and mines.
If your planet has taxable natives, drop 4 supplies, but do not build

the factory right away, tax the natives and wait a turn, then you will
most probably be able to build 4 factories.
Not a good idea to build a mine right away without any defence posts.
Most people (well I do at least), will have some ships doing sensor
sweeps and you are just telling them where you are.

Martin Jennings
thomerc@dxcern.cern.ch


<???, ???>

In article <75208.abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca>, "Patrick Stewart"
<abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca> writes:

> What are the best amounts of things to fill a freighter with? I
currently
>use the following:

>Small: 55 Colonists 15 Supplies 100 Creds
>Medium: 175 Colonists 25 Supplies 100 Creds
>Large: 1100 Colonists 100 Supplies 500 Creds
>Super: 2200 Colonists 200 Supplies 1000 Creds

>This is for a found-a-decent-planet-so-I-will-take-it load, ie you know
>what's down there. Are these good?

>-Patrick Stewart

When I find planets I want to use, I like to send 100 supplies and 300 MC.
That way I can build 100 factories (assuming I have enough colonists on
the planet) the first turn I own it. That way I get a steady supply of
supplies, which I use to build the mines and any defense. Within a few
turns the planet is ready to be put in my supply line.

As for freighters, I don't like them that much, at least early in the
game. If you build freighters from the start, and then on turn 10 the

Privateers whack you with MCBRs, you are sunk. Most races have other ships
that can double as small and medium sized freighters. This is what I use:
Lizards - Lizard class Cruiser


<Brian B, BBLALOCK@MTCO.COM>

wmcharg@netcom.com (William McHarg) wrote:
>I'm starting my first game of VGAP, and while I've
>downloaded and read a ton of stuff, none of it seems
>to directly address early game building and exploring
>strategies.
>
>Any suggestions, or places to look for help?

For the first 3-6 turns, explore. Build ships with large cargo holds
warships if possable. If you don't have a good cheap warship with
lots of cargo room, build Large deep space freighters. Load your
ships with Supplies and Colonists, and send them out. Be careful not
to be seen, so you need to either cloak or make sure that you will get

to your destination in one month. When these ships run out of
colonists, they retrace their steps back to the homeworld, picking up
every mineral that you have mined. Then you send them out for another
exploration and return cycle. You should now be developing your
planets heavily, be careful to put at least 16 defense on every planet
so you will avoid any casual sensor sweeping enemies. Also, this is
where you start building your main battlefleet. Build two or three
good warships, and then a freighter. (unless your race has a decent
capital ship with a large cargo bay, then you should build it instead)
Continue exploring until you run into someone, then make a non-combat
pact with set borderlines of some sort with them. (unless they will be
pushovers) Make sure that it will expire after a set condition, you
don't want to be stuck in a corner behind someone when the real fun is
happening somewhere else. Watch your money and mineral levels

carefully, but if you do run low, you can often still build the ship
you want by lowering the tech levels of the weapons that you want to
put on it.

SOME BIG HINTS!

Diplomacy is essential in the early game, make friends, stick to your
word, but patrol your borders too.

Run lots of sims when you expect combat, battle order can make a HUGE
difference in the outcome of a battle.

Think at least two turns ahead when you are running your economy, you
don't want to shut down a starbase for two turns because you "forgot"
to pick up somthing two turns away.

Lay random small minefields in your empire, they are cheap, and can
serve many purposes.

I hope some of this stuff helps!

Brian B.
BBlalock@mtco.com (Brian Blalock)


<Armin Trott, ARMIN.TROTT@HAMBURG.NETSURF.DE>

wmcharg@netcom.com (William McHarg) wrote:
>I'm starting my first game of VGAP, and while I've
>downloaded and read a ton of stuff, none of it seems
>to directly address early game building and exploring
>strategies.

>
>Any suggestions, or places to look for help?

Bring engine tech level up to 10 and build fast ships for expanding you
empire. use MDSF or LDSF depending on what you can afford. load half
cargo with supplies and half cargo with clans. put supplies * 3
MegaCredits on your ship. Then unload 50 clans, 50 supplies and 150 mc
on each planet you are visiting and build 50 factories in the next turn.

Armin
Armin Trott <Armin.Trott@hamburg.netsurf.de>


<Sir Chivar, CHIVAR@NEXUS.INTEREALM.COM>

Ruediger Schuld wrote:
> The header says it: I'm eager to read some nice suggestions on how to
> expand one's empire most quickly, but without neglecting to establish
> a working economy. Up to now, I do not seem to be able to colonize
> more than one planet per turn, whereas some other players I use to
> play with, are able to expand twice as quickly. I know this can't be

> difficult, if one sets just one clan on every planet one encounters,
> but is this reasonable ?

Build Large Deep Space Freighters. Load them with 1,100 colonists and
100 supplies or so. Go from planet to planet. Check out the value of
the planet as you go. Does it have natives? Does it have good mineral
densities? Does it have an agreeable temperature? Drop a proportionate
amount of colonists according to the planet's value.

If there are natives, only drop four supplies. If it is a really good
planet without natives, drop at least 16. Each increment of four
supplies you drop will allow you to build one factory the next turn. If
there are natives, you can tax them 1 or 2% right off to kick start the
economy.

Change the friendly code of your freighter to the code of the planet.
Change the mission to "Beam up fuel" and move on to the next planet.
This drop and move on activity is all to be done in the same turn for
the most rapid expansion. You can follow this freighter with a warship

with money to further help the economies and to give some defense should
your freighter sense hostiles.

Sir Chivar <chivar@nexus.interealm.com>


<Genya, TSENTALOVICH@AESIR.MIT.EDU>

Sir Chivar wrote:
> Ruediger Schuld wrote:
> > The header says it: I'm eager to read some nice suggestions on how to
> > expand one's empire most quickly, but without neglecting to establish
> > a working economy. Up to now, I do not seem to be able to colonize
>
> Build Large Deep Space Freighters. Load them with 1,100 colonists and
> 100 supplies or so. Go from planet to planet. Check out the value of
> the planet as you go. Does it have natives? Does it have good mineral
> densities? Does it have an agreeable temperature? Drop a proportionate
> amount of colonists according to the planet's value.
> If there are natives, only drop four supplies. If it is a really good
> planet without natives, drop at least 16. Each increment of four

> supplies you drop will allow you to build one factory the next turn. If
> there are natives, you can tax them 1 or 2% right off to kick start the
> economy.
> Change the friendly code of your freighter to the code of the planet.
> Change the mission to "Beam up fuel" and move on to the next planet.
> This drop and move on activity is all to be done in the same turn for
> the most rapid expansion. You can follow this freighter with a warship
> with money to further help the economies and to give some defense should
> your freighter sense hostiles.

Sure way to have a lousy economy. 4 supplies for a native planets!
16 supplies for no-natives!!! How long time it's going to take to build
mines? Take no-native world. You build 4 factory first turn. One more next turn.
7 turns later you'll have about 12 factories. 18-19 turns later you'll build
100 factories and began to build mines (20 per turn). The planet will be actually
colonized and produce stuff 25 turns after initial drop-off!!!

There are 2 good ways of colonization.
1. Load few scouts full of clans and send them out. They drops 1 clan on each
planet (Bovinoid may be an exception), and keep moving till they run out of
clans, or get killed by enemies. Don't count to return them back. The scouts are
followed by Large Freighters. Initial load of freighters depends on your
situation. 1000 clans, 200 supplies, $600 is a good combo, if you can afford it.
Drop 100-150 clans, 100 supplies, $300 on any planet that have good minerals,
and as much clans as needed for planets with natives. Since your scouts have
already learned where good planets are, visit them first. As soon as LF ran
out of clans - return back, picking minerals (and money if you are lucky) on
you way home. Take a new load - and off you go again. This time you may not need
to load supplies - you can pick them up on your new planets that already work!
Don't tax your colonists on new planets, and you'll have the sources of clans away

from your HW. I strongly recommend to use 'growing' method of taxation for HW. If
HW population is 'low' (250000), don't tax them at all!!!
2. The second method is good if initial conditions are 'extra rich'. It is
basically the same, but you use LFs instead of scouts.
Advantages: your economy starts faster.
Disadvantages: a) it is more expensive,
b) you'll waste fuel to go to lousy planets with a full load,
c) defenseless freighters full of colonists are easy preys,
d) (for cloaking races) freighters can't cloak.
So, the second method is good in rich settings, long range games.

PS These tactics are good for 'usual' races. Cyborgs, or, say, Privateers is
another matter.

Siberian Snake
Genya <tsentalovich@aesir.mit.edu>


<Alexandar Perovic, ALEKS@CS.TU-BERLIN.DE>

Ruediger.Schuld@tg.fh-giessen.de wrote:

>The header says it: I'm eager to read some nice suggestions on how to

>expand one's empire most quickly, but without neglecting to establish
>a working economy. Up to now, I do not seem to be able to colonize
>more than one planet per turn, whereas some other players I use to
>play with, are able to expand twice as quickly. I know this can't be
>difficult, if one sets just one clan on every planet one encounters,
>but is this reasonable ?

Send out small scout ships in all directions -- they only drop 1 colonist
or so and are followed by freighters that carry more colonists as well as
supplies and money. Dropping just one colonist first with a scout has
the follwoing advantages:

1. You have all the information about the planet (including native
government type) when you come with your freighter, which makes it easy
to determine the optimal amount of colonists to drop. Moreover, you know
whether there are even better planets nearby for which you might want to
spare your colonists.
2. You can beam up fuel from an already colonized planet with more ease

and accuracy than from an uncolonized one.
3. You can beam down just as many MCs as you wish if you already have a
colonist on the planet.
4. Natives start to grow at the moment that colonists arrive. Seems that
colonists carry some special kind of fertilizer with them ;-)

I find rapid expansion to be the best strategy in the beginning. Once
you encounter your neighbours, you won't be able to expand anymore.
If they have been faster, you will have to attack them. I find it better
to get the upper hand in expansion than to have to attack that early in the
game. Eeven if you get attacked because you may have overexpanded a bit in
the eyes of your neighbour, you have the advantage that you have gathered
all the essential information about a planet at the expense of only one
colonist. This will be of great help if you launch a counterattack.

If you have hyperwarping ships, then you can send them out and drop
colonists 350 LYs away from your homeworld. Especially nice if you are

the Cyborg. (Don't forget to drop one suplly, too, in this case).

I also find that only about 10-20% of the planets are really worthy of
carrying great numbers of colonists to them. The most important in the
beginning are those with medium to high numbers of natives which have
a good government (feudal or better), then those with high mineral contents
at high extraction rates. Once you find good natives, it is the first
objective to carry the optimal amount of colonists there (so that you can
overtax -- use randmax to optimize income and native growth at the same
time).

You will only need a handful of good planets of both kinds to get your
economy running on your homeworld so that you can jack up tech levels and
built scouts and freighters, maybe some small warships (but only if
you think you'll need them). Use the freighters to optimally develop
your economy. Once you have enough colonists on your planets, you can start
to think about building warships with all the tiresome logistics (in terms

of carrying minerals and money around) it requires. You will have enough
freighters to be able to handle this by that time.

Be peacefully expansive in the beginning, try to be nice to your neighbours
so they don't feel threatened, and develop economy and logistics, then you
will be able to build more and better ships eventually than those who cannot
wait to engage in fighting and neglect economy. The latter is bad strategy.
Only fight if you are forced to, in the beginning. A well managed economy is
most important in Planets. Your ability to manage it will be decisive for
your final score.

aleks@cs.tu-berlin.de (Alexandar Perovic)

=======<2.6>=========================> Ship Names <=======================

You're tired of always having the same names for your ships? Running out of
ideas? Well this section is just for you! Here's something I picked up and
that I found very interesting..


A few of my friends and I are playing some local VGA Planets games, and
are running out of ideas for ship names (We're down to the "USS Bob").
Does anyone have any names for ships? Doesn't matter what race it is,
although knowing the race would help :/

-Patrick Stewart


<John, ???>

In article <70016.abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca> <abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca> writes:
>From: <abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca>
>Subject: Names for ships
>Date: 27 Nov 1994 16:16:46 -0400

> A few of my friends and I are playing some local VGA Planets games, and
>are running out of ideas for ship names (We're down to the "USS Bob").
>Does anyone have any names for ships? Doesn't matter what race it is,
>although knowing the race would help :/

Patrick, if your imagination fails you just open up any dictionary to any
page and you will find endless examples. For instance I opened my dictionary
at random and found these on the two pages:

Congrous, Conic, Conifer, Conjecture, Conjugal, Conjurer*, Conk, Conn,
Connecter, Conning Tower, Connoiseur, Conoid, Conquest*, Conquian,
Conscience*, Conscious, Conscript,Consecrate, Consensus, Consequence*,
Conservation, Conservator, Conserve, Consigner, Consistency*, Console,
Consolidation*, Consort, Consortium, Conspire, Constable, Constancy*,
Constellation*, Consternation

Any one of these would make a decent starship name. I marked the ones I
especially liked. And remember I found these on just two pages out of a book
with over 1200 pages and there were many more words I simply passed over.

John


<Rob, ???>

abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca wrote:
: A few of my friends and I are playing some local VGA Planets games, and
: are running out of ideas for ship names (We're down to the "USS Bob").
: Does anyone have any names for ships? Doesn't matter what race it is,
: although knowing the race would help :/

: -Patrick Stewart

=-=-=-==-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-===-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-==-=-=-

 

You could get a copy of "Janes Fighting Ships" It's given me a
few ideas. I find the old names better 1900-1950. After that the US has a
bad habit of naming ships after dead people (makes for boring names ex.
NCC-1702G Alfred E Newman or DDG-56 Invincible which sounds more
intimidating!)

Rob


<Sami Nikander, NIKANDER@CC.HELSINKI.FI>

Well, for the Fascists (if you're not thinking of 'em as the
Klingons :) I have a habit of using names of German
(and Scandinavian - "Viking") mythology. How about Thor's
Hammer or Rheingold or Valkyria, or Gram (Hellhound in German
mythology), or... just to compensate the usual "Gestapo" stuff...

The usual thing is, as somebody already pointed out, to open a
dictionary. Well, better still might be to open up a map...
Cities, rivers, mountains, territories...
Eg. A Gorbie named Novosibirsk or Vladivostok or Jaroslavl ???

How about naming all your Lizard ships after Chinese locations
like Shanghai, Xian, Wuhan, Nanjing etc. ???
(The Lizard ship designs somehow feel Chinese to me... I'm
not saying the Chinese are slimy reptiles :-)

Or leaf through some books about different religions and
mythologies, as I have done. Try the names of all ancient
Greek gods: Calliope or Europe would make a perfect freighter,
and what better name for a battleship than Zeus or Neptune?

In my current game I have decided to name all my ships with
negative names that sound much the way navies usually name their
battleships... like the normal Glorious/Constitution/Enterprise
way, but the other way around: disgusting and/or tasteless:
HMS Defective/Ineffective/Deranged/Asthmatic/Obnoxious/Obsolete/
Pathetic/Mediocre/Underpowered/Overrated/Delirious...

Oh yeah, and my alchemy ships have names like Inflation, Taiwan
and Hong Kong :-)

And the starmap (the real one, not the planets one !) is also

an endless - and quite fit - source of names... from Andromeda
to Virgo. Name your Golems after the signs of Zodiac and
fill the list with names of other constellations after that...

Come on, you can't be that unimaginative!
--
Sami 'Niksu' Nikander Computer Science, Physics, whatever...
nikander@cc.helsinki.fi University of Helsinki, Finland



<Darren, ???>

In article <70016.abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca> <abm1@fox.nstn.ns.ca> writes:
> A few of my friends and I are playing some local VGA Planets games, and
>are running out of ideas for ship names (We're down to the "USS Bob").
>Does anyone have any names for ships? Doesn't matter what race it is,
>although knowing the race would help :

In any game I play, I try to come up with something
interesting and unique... Some successful naming systems have
been:

1) Cities, where major US cities are capital ships, states are

battleships, and Canadian cities are freighters. Not to put down
Cdn cities, as I live in Calgary, but Canada has such a lousy
navy that the HMCS Halifax just doesn't seem to strike terror
into someone'e heats like the USS Texas.

2) NHL players.. sigh... where the top players are battleships
(Fedorov, Gretzky, Gilmour, Lafontaine, Turgeon, Oates, etc.),
intermediate players are capital ships, defensemen are
freighters, and goalies are Alchemy ships.

3) Cars, wher sports cars are your capital ships with Ferrari,
Porsche, etc models as battleships and other common models as
freighters.

I'm currently using the hockey approach and it's starting
to get REALLY thin (I'm at 136 ships).

Darren


<Nikolas Izak Landauer, NIKOLAS.IZAK.LANDAUER@SHARENET.COM>

Timo Kreike has some great ship name lists at his website:
http://www.chem.vu.nl/0/Studenten/kreike/vgap.html

I tend to use things relevant to the race. When I play Crystal, I use gem
and stone names (Emeralds are Hematite ID#, Rubies are Citrine ID#, LDSFs
are Carnelian ID# or Amber ID#). I'm playing Fascist right now, and I name

the ships I don't use much simple things (SDSFs are Shit ID#, NFCs are
Dildo ID#, etc.) and the ships I use more often I name interesting things
that sound cool when used as ship names. My first 17 D7s are going to be
named after the Dragaeran houses in Steven Brust's books (Phoenix, Dragon,
Jhereg, Yendi, etc...) and then characters after that (Sethra Lavode,
Khaavren, etc.). My D3 Thorns are going to be flower names, just to confuse
people (Imagine a warship named the Petunia). My Deth Specs will be named
after Magic:the Gathering Legend cards (Dakkon Blackblade, Ayesha Tanaka,
etc.), and my Sabers will be named after Heresy:Kingdom Come convictions
(Acquisition, Devotion, Evolution, Preservation, Rebellion, Stagnation,
Technology, Tradition). My D19b's (Glory Device-pop ships) will be named after
gum brands (Wrigley, Bubble Yum, etc.)

So... after I blabber on for a while, Anything goes for ship names! My
enemy used to name his Ill Winds after other ship types. It was kind of

startling to see the Combat message: "The DETH SPECULA CLASS FRIGATE has
been destroyed by the Fascist ship PL21 PROBE"

Try Timo's Web site for other names. As for race-specific actual ship names,
for Empire and Rebel ships, try the Star Wars role-playing game. For
Imperial ships, the TIE Fighter (non-CD) game's copy-protection is all
Star Destroyer names. Mail me if you want the name list.

nikolas.izak.landauer@sharenet.com (Nikolas Izak Landauer)

=======<2.7>=========================> Diplomacy in VGAP <================

<Luc Projean, BUCK@CEDEP.COM>

Greetings,

Since I felt a bit bad for just taking other people's work and
putting it in a file, I've decided to add my own 2 cents to the -H- Files.

First of all, to me diplomacy is one of the most important and fun part
of the game. Few races can manage to make it to the top on their own. This
is why most of us have once had allies in games we played.

Something I did when I started playing VGA PLANETS was create a
character for me to role play with. His name is Ramshir Nuturia, and even
when one game with him is finished, he'll pop up in the next. I'll find a
way to introduce him (I.E, The Robot's creator was named Ramshir Nuturia)
in every game. I also try to create some kind of story to go with if my
imagination doesn't fail me.

Why am I doing this? Well, it's simply that I like a little bit of
continuity in my games, I also do this in the hopes that someday the name
might be recognized by some gamers, and hopefully, they'll appreciate what
I did with Ramshir Nuturia.

I also give different names to the different people in a 'everyday
space-empire'. For example, Ramshir Nuturia is usually the Diplomatic
Commander. He's the one who'll make the first contact with other races and
negociate with them to make treaties and such. When I'm talking to my
allies about attacking someone, it'll be the Military Commander talking.

Say I am starting in a new game, the first thing I'll usually do is send
an universal message, explaining who I am, why I'm here, and what are my
goals in this galaxy (usually peaceful). The very turn that I see someone
else's ship, I send them a message to introduce myself and usually propose a
preliminary border.

My favorite race is the Lizard. (I'm not saying they're the best, it's
just that I love'em..) So if one of my neighbour are the Rebels, you can be
sure I'll talk to them alot, give'em free information and try to basically
suck up to get a good deal on some Falcons. I'm not saying that all you
should do is suck up, but talking in a polite manner usually gives a good
lasting first impression.

Player interaction is the biggest part of VGAP IMHO, and it's what makes
it so fun. For example, I never had a game hold my attention for so long
compared to normal computer games like Master of Orion or Command & Conquer.

Every game is always different, because a human being is unpredictable.
Would you play 10+ games of VGAP against any Cplayer??? No? that's what I
thought.

In conclusion if you want to make VGAP even more fun, talk Talk TALK!!!
same messages to people, ask for their email addresses (if any), discuss
with them of future plans, don't hold back, if you show some thrust you
just might get theirs. If you get screwed by doing this, well just tell
yourself that it wouldn't have been any better if you had just shut up!

Thank you,
Luc Projean - buck@cedep.com

=======<3.0>=========================> Conclusion <=======================

I hope you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed writing it. Of course
by any stretch of the imagination this file isn't complete, there are alot
of new strategies not included here. If you want to suggest any new hints
or section, just email me at <buck@cedep.com>. I also don't mind comments
and letters of appreciation :)

Thank you,
Luc Projean

=============================<THE END>=================================

 

This has been posted by me, Luc Projean, I know the address is not the
same. Any comments should be sent at BUCK@CEDEP.COM, not
david_s@alcor.concordia.ca... please.

 

 

 
 
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